Record vs Chorus

[bladegeek]

I did some simple math the other day wondering the same thing. Based on Avg. prices that I could find 2007 Record cost $.85 (cents) per gram and Chorus is $.57 (cents) per gram. Which is better performace wise I do not know but price wise per gram that I listed is pretty close.

 

[sogood]

I did some simple math the other day wondering the same thing. Based on Avg. prices that I could find 2007 Record cost $.85 (cents) per gram and Chorus is $.57 (cents) per gram. Which is better performace wise I do not know but price wise per gram that I listed is pretty close.

You are not buying precious metal, weight is only a part of the performance equation.

 

[Eastway82]

nope.

i believe centaur doesnt use bearings in the shifters and is considerable heavier. plus, no where near the sex appeal.

Don't know about the weight, but having spent a few hours poring over Campag parts books to get the background for rebuilding my 1999 Record Ergos, I can say the following about the differences between various types of Campag Ergos (up to and including 2006):

1: Mirage, Veloce and Centaur are ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL under the skin (same part numbers and everything), the ONLY difference being the material of the brake and shift levers. Centaur shift levers are the same as Chorus alloy, by the way.

2: Record and Chorus are absolutely identical (again, same part numbers), except the brake lever blade (the shift blade is the same as Mirage, only with a tacky fake carbon sticker on it, so presumably actually heavier than Mirage!). Given that both Chorus and Record levers are carbon, I can't believe there's a great deal of weight difference...

3: Between Mirage/Veloce/Centaur and Chorus/Record, the ONLY difference in the internal mechanism is the presence of two small ball bearing races in Chorus/Record, where the lower levels get a simple bushing system instead (this is why Mirage/Veloce/Centaur are said to need 'running-in' for some distance before the shift frees up, where Chorus/Record are good to go straight out of the box). The bush also means one small pivot (where the shift lever pivots) has to be very slightly different, but it has no effect on operation.
Apart from that, just about everything inside a Mirage shifter is exactly the same as Record. Doesn't just look the same - same part number, everything, completely interchangeable.

4: The only exception to all this standardization is Xenon, which is totally different internally, and just about nothing is interchangeable with other units.

5: The only other difference between groups is between 9 and 10 speed. This is simply a matter of changing the index wheels (one for downshifting, one for upshifting). You can convert most 10spd to 9spd or 8spd and vice versa, as well as adapting to different Campag standards (pre-2001 9spd was different to post-2001). For example, to convert any 9spd front changer to 10spd, you need index wheels EC-RE061 (downshift) and EC-RE062 (upshift). To go the other way (10spd levers to 9spd shift), you need EC-RE063 and EC-RE133.

 

[bladegeek]

You are not buying precious metal, weight is only a part of the performance equation.

Right....thanks for the tip. The weight difference that I found between the Record and Chorus was 58 grams total. And I stated that I did not know the difference in performance....I did just the weight vs. cost. Even if my numbers are not right on weight and money are two physical things that can be measured. It is up to you to decide if either is important.

 

[Eastway82]

For example, to convert any 9spd front changer to 10spd, you need index wheels <etc>.

What I meant was "to convert any 9spd right ergo-shifter..." etc.

 

[alfeng]

Don't know about the weight, but having spent a few hours poring over Campag parts books to get the background for rebuilding my 1999 Record Ergos, I can say the following about the differences between various types of Campag Ergos (up to and including 2006):

1: Mirage, Veloce and Centaur are ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL under the skin (same part numbers and everything), the ONLY difference being the material of the brake and shift levers. Centaur shift levers are the same as Chorus alloy, by the way.

2: Record and Chorus are absolutely identical (again, same part numbers), except the brake lever blade (the shift blade is the same as Mirage, only with a tacky fake carbon sticker on it, so presumably actually heavier than Mirage!). Given that both Chorus and Record levers are carbon, I can't believe there's a great deal of weight difference...

The indexing cog on the ULTRA shifters are drilled & teflon coated, as I recall. I think there may be some Titanium parts in the Record, but if there are, they are interchangeable with whatever is in the Chorus shifters, and vice-versa.

The interchangeability of MOST of the signficant components between the most and the least expensive (with the exception of the Xenon shifters, as noted) is what makes the Campagnolo Mirage/Veloce/Centaur shifters such a great bargain for people who aren't sponsored riders OR who don't need the bling-factor.

 

[Eastway82]

The indexing cog on the ULTRA shifters are drilled & teflon coated, as I recall. I think there may be some Titanium parts in the Record, but if there are, they are interchangeable with whatever is in the Chorus shifters, and vice-versa.

The interchangeability of MOST of the signficant components between the most and the least expensive (with the exception of the Xenon shifters, as noted) is what makes the Campagnolo Mirage/Veloce/Centaur shifters such a great bargain for people who aren't sponsored riders OR who don't need the bling-factor.

I've just looked again and the only difference in part numbers is from 2004 on, when Record only goes to a new part number for the indexing cogs and the spring retainer housing. Chorus remains the same (same parts as in use on all ergos since 1999).

 

[Eastway82]

I've just looked again and the only difference in part numbers is from 2004 on, when Record only goes to a new part number for the indexing cogs and the spring retainer housing. Chorus remains the same (same parts as in use on all ergos since 1999).

Just been looking at the 2007 parts list, and it's interesting...

2007 Record: the only different part listed over 2006 is the left body, because it says QS on it. Everything else is exactly the same as 06.
2007 Chorus: the ony different parts listed are the two bodies, again, presumably because of different printing. Everything else is exactly the same as 06.


2007 Centaur/Veloce/Mirage: here's a big difference, and it's not good. Instead of these three groups keeping all the features of the top two but with a simplified bearing, they've all been dumbed down to the level of Xenon! All of them (Xenon/Mirage/Veloce/Centaur) now have exactly the same internal workings as crappy old Xenon. None of them are now ergobrain compatible either.

So to recap - no need to upgrade to 2007 Ergos for Record/Chorus.
A positive reason to avoid upgrading to 2007 Ergos for all the other groups. If you're going for an 07 Centaur/Veloce/Mirage group, leave the Ergos on the shelf and get some '06 Centaur or Veloce instead.

 

[schmuzzy]

The indexing cog on the ULTRA shifters are drilled & teflon coated, as I recall. I think there may be some Titanium parts in the Record, but if there are, they are interchangeable with whatever is in the Chorus shifters, and vice-versa.

The interchangeability of MOST of the signficant components between the most and the least expensive (with the exception of the Xenon shifters, as noted) is what makes the Campagnolo Mirage/Veloce/Centaur shifters such a great bargain for people who aren't sponsored riders OR who don't need the bling-factor.

interchangeability- good point. i built my bike with full record because 1) i had cash burning a hole in my pocket at the time and 2) i got a good deal on the group.

6000 miles later, with a new chain- the cassette was skipping. when i priced out the record gear cluster i about fell over. it was great to buy the chorus and just swap out the worn middle cogs.

frankly- if i could do a group set a al carte- it would be record levers, crank, BB... chorus wear-ables like chain rings, gear cluster, brakes

the record gear cluster is a lot thinner than the chours and has titanium bits etc. in essence you are paying more to get less. now, if somebody is buying your kit for you- or if you ride less than you claim and pose a bit... go record.

if you honestly do ANYTHING over 5000miles a year... go chorus.

my two cents.

 

[sogood]

frankly- if i could do a group set a al carte- it would be record levers, crank, BB... chorus wear-ables like chain rings, gear cluster, brakes

the record gear cluster is a lot thinner than the chours and has titanium bits etc. in essence you are paying more to get less. now, if somebody is buying your kit for you- or if you ride less than you claim and pose a bit... go record.

The difference b/n Record and Chorus Ergo shifters is mainly that shift paddle with a fake carbon sticker.

How can the Record cassette be "a lot thinner"? They are all the same dimension so that chains and other running gears are all cross-compatible. But it's true, the Ti cogs in the Record cassette will wear out faster. Unless you are racing and need the weight reduction, Chorus indeed is a better buy.

 

[bobbyOCR]

Just been looking at the 2007 parts list, and it's interesting...

2007 Record: the only different part listed over 2006 is the left body, because it says QS on it. Everything else is exactly the same as 06.
2007 Chorus: the ony different parts listed are the two bodies, again, presumably because of different printing. Everything else is exactly the same as 06.


2007 Centaur/Veloce/Mirage: here's a big difference, and it's not good. Instead of these three groups keeping all the features of the top two but with a simplified bearing, they've all been dumbed down to the level of Xenon! All of them (Xenon/Mirage/Veloce/Centaur) now have exactly the same internal workings as crappy old Xenon. None of them are now ergobrain compatible either.

So to recap - no need to upgrade to 2007 Ergos for Record/Chorus.
A positive reason to avoid upgrading to 2007 Ergos for all the other groups. If you're going for an 07 Centaur/Veloce/Mirage group, leave the Ergos on the shelf and get some '06 Centaur or Veloce instead.

But the new Centaur is so bling. If you can find a set of chorus 06 shifters for $200AUD then it would be a consideration.

 

[Eastway82]

But the new Centaur is so bling. If you can find a set of chorus 06 shifters for $200AUD then it would be a consideration.

So, let's get this straight... You'd prefer to have flash carbon fibre brake levers on cheap and cheerful internal components, rather than alloy levers on internals that work far better, will last longer and are better made...? Maybe Campag have got their policy sussed after all...

 

[bobbyOCR]

So, let's get this straight... You'd prefer to have flash carbon fibre brake levers on cheap and cheerful internal components, rather than alloy levers on internals that work far better, will last longer and are better made...? Maybe Campag have got their policy sussed after all...

I just like the carbon levers. Oh, yeah, I HATE grey centaur. If they have 06 in regular old silver alloy colour, great.

 

[Eastway82]

I just like the carbon levers. Oh, yeah, I HATE grey centaur. If they have 06 in regular old silver alloy colour, great.

There's plenty around in regular silver alloy - and even better news is there's still old stock Daytona 10-speed around from 2001-ish, which are identical in every respect (except they say Daytona instead of Centaur). Parker International have been punting them out through Ebay UK over the past few weeks, and they've been going for about £50 (inc cables).
You'll be making a big mistake though - everyone knows the grey ones are aerodynamically superior...

 

[bobbyOCR]

There's plenty around in regular silver alloy - and even better news is there's still old stock Daytona 10-speed around from 2001-ish, which are identical in every respect (except they say Daytona instead of Centaur). Parker International have been punting them out through Ebay UK over the past few weeks, and they've been going for about £50 (inc cables).
You'll be making a big mistake though - everyone knows the grey ones are aerodynamically superior...

I had a good look at the grey centaur levers. I have changed my mind, I think they would match my bike. I hate the crank, derailleur and other grey parts. I might go grey levers, 07 derailleur. Thanks for the info.