Record vs DA 10 a sensible discussion

[mrowkoob]

Right.

Looking at a majority of the post concerning the two top gruopos of road cycling they all seem to be coloured so much by predisposed emotional baggage rather than actual fact.

This is a thread were it would be nice if we could discuss pros and con of the two contenders without a lot of bashing the brand you do not like. It´s a fact that they are both top of the line and tried out by top proffesionals. So we will be going into the details since overall performance is already proven.

Also posts about what pro who rides what is completely uninteresting since it is controlled by sponsorship.
So everyday problems met by the recrational rider or amateur who does not have a mechanic for everyday fine tuning is of definite interest.

Have you tried both top groups? How did you like them? Any problems? What was "better" or more functional? What was a common problem if any? Had any problems with record carbonfiber components? Had any problems with the new DA 10 plastic BB? Chainbreakage, the thinner 10 speed chains do they last? Should one use Wipperman 10 speed chains instead of shimano or campy and so on. How often do you need to replace components. What was the service you received from the two companys and so we go on without namecalling and biased opinions. Please!

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mrowkoob
Right.

Looking at a majority of the post concerning the two top gruopos of road cycling they all seem to be coloured so much by predisposed emotional baggage rather than actual fact.

This is a thread were it would be nice if we could discuss pros and con of the two contenders without a lot of bashing the brand you do not like. It´s a fact that they are both top of the line and tried out by top proffesionals. So we will be going into the details since overall performance is already proven.

Also posts about what pro who rides what is completely uninteresting since it is controlled by sponsorship.
So everyday problems met by the recrational rider or amateur who does not have a mechanic for everyday fine tuning is of definite interest.

Have you tried both top groups? How did you like them? Any problems? What was "better" or more functional? What was a common problem if any? Had any problems with record carbonfiber components? Had any problems with the new DA 10 plastic BB? Chainbreakage, the thinner 10 speed chains do they last? Should one use Wipperman 10 speed chains instead of shimano or campy and so on. How often do you need to replace components. What was the service you received from the two companys and so we go on without namecalling and biased opinions. Please!

I use em both . No issues. The whole arguement is nonsense. So, why not beat it to death some more??? Whipperman chains are more hype than any real performance or value enhancement. Shimano and Campy both make excellent chains.Just use em with a removeable link and get the best of everything. I'd rather be riding.

 

[Owen Meany]

I have used both. However, my life with Campy has only been for the last 6 moths (2500 miles). Whereas, I had Shimano for about the 10 years prior.

That being said, I believe the shifting is "sharper" or cleaner and more intuitive with Campy. The reason I went with Campy (03 Record Carbon 10) is that it was spec'd on the bike as purchased. It was of minor concern at the time: "Should I stick with Shimano" or "Would this change be a good thing?". But in the end I decided what the heck, why not give it a try.

I have absolutly no complaints. I have had to do no real maintance. I have changed the chain with the supplied pin and have since put on about 600 miles with no problems.

In recalling my shimano years, I feel that the shifting lost its freshness soon and had to be tuned with some regularitiy. I have not had to tune the campy as of yet. So, we will see over time how this all plays out. Would I go back to shimano? Sure, why not..but I really like the Campy..

 

[BaCardi]

Both are good. I'm on Shimano, not because of sponsorship, but because I like the lighter shifting and easier braking. Don't get the chains that have the connector thing that you can remove with your hand. They suck.

 

[Eidetic]

I use both ... and on my Merckx Ti with 2004 Record 3x10 drivetrain I have DA brakes, because I like the feel better, having dual-pivot calipers F and R, and having a set screw for the brake pad fixture. I know Campy's reasons for a single pivot rear caliper, but actual use tells me the few extra grams in the DA part are worth it.

 

[mrowkoob]

I like having a set screw for the brake pad fixture too and I´m a bit of a weight weenie so I replaced my record brakes with cat usa titanium brakes. Thus saving 200 grams and getting set screws. The stopping power isunaffected. See them at : http://www.cat-usa.com/pages/1/index.htm. This will ofcourse upset a campagnolo purist. But I think it just tells you that campa (and shimano) still have room to optimise (save weight) on their two groups.

 

[rek]

Originally posted by BaCardi
Don't get the chains that have the connector thing that you can remove with your hand. They suck.

Hmm, interesting.. I take it you mean the SRAM and Wippermann chains that come with the removable links? What problems have you got with them?

(Not challenging your opinon, just that I use Shimano chains at the moment and am considering moving to SRAM/Wippermann in the future, mainly for the connector link.)

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by rek
Hmm, interesting.. I take it you mean the SRAM and Wippermann chains that come with the removable links? What problems have you got with them?

(Not challenging your opinon, just that I use Shimano chains at the moment and am considering moving to SRAM/Wippermann in the future, mainly for the connector link.)

They aren't reliable. I was in a race once, hit a pothole, and the thing came completely off. No not the chain, but the connector pin. Had the chain come off, I could've just shifted it back on and stayed in contention. But the dang pin came off and took me out of it. Also, mountain bikers and BMXers have sworn these off. The miniscule weight savings or the fact that you don't have to use a chain tool just aren't that advantageous compared to the negatives.

 

[stevek]

so far my sram has been fine. I weigh 238 and I have pretty big legs and can put serous power into my bike and the chain has been fine. You need to lube the link before removing it. I had a hell of a time when I first isntalled the chain but no problems since.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by BaCardi
They aren't reliable. I was in a race once, hit a pothole, and the thing came completely off. No not the chain, but the connector pin. Had the chain come off, I could've just shifted it back on and stayed in contention. But the dang pin came off and took me out of it. Also, mountain bikers and BMXers have sworn these off. The miniscule weight savings or the fact that you don't have to use a chain tool just aren't that advantageous compared to the negatives.

That proves nothing.Traditional chains also come apart and it is usually operator error.

 

[mrowkoob]

In my 6 years of cycling I´ve only seen 4 chainbreaks on fellow riders bikes. All were Record chains. Now 4 chains is no proof of Record chains being poor. I´ve read that the new record ultra speed chain is of new design and supposedly an improvement over the old one. I´m surprised buy your statement bacardi that mountainbikers have sworn of Sram. Most competition (amateur)mtb riders I know use Sram cassettes and chains with their shimano gear for improved reliability and endurance (they say).

 

[JohnO]

FWIW: I've been using a Superlink III removable link from Forster Tool on a Campy 10 Ultra chain. No problems in 1 year and around 1.5k miles of riding, including some nasty hills so it has seen some stress. Got it from Branford Bike after I tried relinking the Ultra chain with a regular pin and Park tool, instead of the one time pin and $65 tool, and just like Campy said, it didn't work.

I like to dunk my chains in an ultrasonic cleaner, so the removeable link is nice for that. Doesn't do that much for the road bike, but you should see the piles of crud that come out of a MTB chain after a couple of hours in the cleaner. Ugh!

Been using sram chains on the MTB for four years. No breaks. My wife and I broke a Sram chain on our tandem, though it was an old chain, and we were trying to pull a steep hill in the middle chainring. It let go with a pop, and we started going backwards quick. Lotsa fun.

Campy vs Shimano? Ordinarily, I'd say it's more of a style debate than functionality, but think of the discussion list traffic it generates...

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by boudreaux
That proves nothing.Traditional chains also come apart and it is usually operator error.

Its not a traditional chain. And the link was secure and checked before the race.

 

[mrowkoob]

JohnO that´s very impressive since the Ultra chain is the only part of the new 2004 Record group that isn´t on the market yet. Expected delivery.... march. (Source German Magazine Tour)

 

[lokstah]

I'd be happy to ride either!

 

[JohnO]

Hey mrowkoob - here's something even more impressive. I'm staring at a box that came with the Record groupo I bought a year and a half ago. It says - 'Record Ultra Drive 10 speed Chain' (source - my spare parts bin)

Maybe they shortened it to Ultra instead of Ultra Drive in 2004. I don't know, I don't memorize Campy catalogs, I just ride the equipment...

but I guess we can all aspire to something.

 

[Eidetic]

What's the latest rumor on when we'll see a DA 3x10?

 

[mrowkoob]

Here the solution for those of you who want campy style cabling but prefer shimano on your bike. Nokon cables.

 

[lokstah]

Originally posted by mrowkoob
Here the solution for those of you who want campy style cabling but prefer shimano on your bike. Nokon cables.

Mrokwkoob, do you use Nokons? I've never seen them in person and never spoken with anyone that's used them. Aside from durability and a little of that Team ONCE style-factor, I wonder how they feel.

Are actions smoother? And how do Nokons compare in weight to standard housings?

 

[mrowkoob]

Yes I have them mounted on two of my bikes. I really like them. The one with shimano is however not mounted under the bartape. Do they "feel" better... absolutely.... is it subliminal.. yes.