REI Safari or Surly Long haul Trucker?

[Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>
> Mount on what?
>
Bicycle.

> Who are you talking to?

Hominids.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>> Mount on what?
>>
>> Who are you talking to?
>
> well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
> generic spokes.
> less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee

I thought that was in West Grain Elevator?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> EVER WONDER WHY your supplier has a bad attitude?
>
> "Well I bought the Randonee..... not sure I'm gonna keep
> it tho. have 30 days to decide, right? "

REI = Return Every Item?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka GENE DANIELS wrote:
> WHERE'S FRANK?
>
With the beans, presumably.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Hank]

On Mar 31, 9:16 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 8:15 pm, Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 27, 10:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > I want to do some touring this summer.
>
> > > Any help on deciding between the tow bikes above?
>
> > I was facing similar choice - wanted a touring bike and
> > at the end had to decide betw Surly LHT and Novarra Randonee.
> > For me Novarra Safari was out of a question - I wanted something
> > that would look like road bike. PLus I had Novarra Viaggio - I guess
> > you can call it earlier version of Safari and I was VERY unhappy
> > with that B-shaped handlebar.
> > I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
> > about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel.
>
> That's not true. The Randonee has a perfectly good wheel with Tiagra
> hubs, Mavic rims, and generic SS spokes. The LHT has even better XT
> hubs, DT spokes, and Adventurer rims. Both are good wheels, but at the
> end of the day--I'd say the LHTs are higher pedigree.

And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
Randonee.

 

[datakoll]

On Apr 1, 10:36 am, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 9:16 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 27, 8:15 pm, Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 27, 10:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > I want to do some touring this summer.
>
> > > > Any help on deciding between the tow bikes above?
>
> > > I was facing similar choice - wanted a touring bike and
> > > at the end had to decide betw Surly LHT and Novarra Randonee.
> > > For me Novarra Safari was out of a question - I wanted something
> > > that would look like road bike. PLus I had Novarra Viaggio - I guess
> > > you can call it earlier version of Safari and I was VERY unhappy
> > > with that B-shaped handlebar.
> > > I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
> > > about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel.
>
> > That's not true. The Randonee has a perfectly good wheel with Tiagra
> > hubs, Mavic rims, and generic SS spokes. The LHT has even better XT
> > hubs, DT spokes, and Adventurer rims. Both are good wheels, but at the
> > end of the day--I'd say the LHTs are higher pedigree.
>
> And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
> just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
> Randonee.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The radonee frame: does it take a shimano deore rear hub at 135mm?
that's a UCJ standard right?
or WalThink spreading?

 

[landotter]

On Apr 1, 9:36 am, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:

> And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
> just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
> Randonee.

Indeed. I find it strange that the Randonee specs a road rear hub,
when 135mm is pretty much standard for touring/trekking these days. I
didn't see it clearly specced on the site so didn't mention it, though
I was pretty sure it was 130.

I do see a benefit to this, though. A lot of people walk into an REI
and say: "gimme a bike to do everything", and the Randonee is a great
answer to this. Under a grand, and upon casual inspection it has the
same gee-whiz shifters that the racy bikes have. If the owner wants to
buy a pair of super-light weekend century wheels--they'll fit the
spacing just fine. If somebody wants a true expedition quality bike,
the REI people can point towards the Novara Safari.

 

[daveornee]

On Mar 31, 9:16*am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 8:15*pm, Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 27, 10:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > I want to do some touring this summer.
>
> > > Any help on deciding between the tow bikes above?
>
> > I was facing similar choice - wanted a touring bike and
> > at the end had to decide betw Surly LHT and Novarra Randonee.
> > For me Novarra Safari was out of a question - I wanted something
> > that would look like road bike. PLus I had Novarra Viaggio - I guess
> > you can call it earlier version of Safari and I was VERY unhappy
> > with that B-shaped handlebar.
> > I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
> > about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel.
>
> That's not true. The Randonee has a perfectly good wheel with Tiagra
> hubs, Mavic rims, and generic SS spokes. The LHT has even better XT
> hubs, DT spokes, and Adventurer rims. Both are good wheels, but at the
> end of the day--I'd say the LHTs are higher pedigree.

And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
Randonee.

Agree with Hank + the 46 cm chain stays on LHT are more suitable than 43.5 cm on Randonee for heel clearance and carrying panniers.

 

[daveornee]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:57:20 -0500, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> may have said:

>datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>>>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>>> Mount on what?
>>>
>>> Who are you talking to?
>>
>> well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
>> generic spokes.
>> less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee
>
>I thought that was in West Grain Elevator?

In West Grain Elevator you get tutelage in Corn Shuck Macrame.
Taxidermy is the favorite in Des Moines, particularly during tourist
season along I-70.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Your vantage point and telescope must be very good to see I-70 from Des Moines (or maybe you meant Kansas City). Unless you meant I-80 for Des Moines, you would be seeing 1 whole state further south.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:57:20 -0500, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> may have said:

>datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>>>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>>> Mount on what?
>>>
>>> Who are you talking to?
>>
>> well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
>> generic spokes.
>> less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee
>
>I thought that was in West Grain Elevator?

In West Grain Elevator you get tutelage in Corn Shuck Macrame.
Taxidermy is the favorite in Des Moines, particularly during tourist
season along I-70.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[datakoll]

Novarra Safari covers a lota ground for $900.
I swear this morning the stats were deore and this afternoon tiagra/
sram.

both Rad and Saf need Spec tubes and a hacksaw for cutting that rack
loop off.
sand and paint 1/2 A/B plywood to fit past the rear tire and up to
under the seat. bolt down with 8/10's and steel straps drilled either
side to snug up on the rack tubes.
A touring rack should carry a 24" duffle then extend far enough to
rear so the bike can strand up against a wall on rack's rear lip.
cut, thread, file a steel seat post nut and a seat stop bolt into
the post saddle.
The Safari with deore hubs iza good deal-not too much cheating the
customer for the whole package. an honest bicycle. shows what compared
to the Radonee what the pay is for chrome moly welding v. Aluminum
the Surly v Radonee not v. Safari is an easy choice. The LHT iza
grade up and $5-600 up with the basic mechanicals/tires/racks.
go cheap but complete or go $600 more and go fast and bulletproof

 

[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:57:56 -0500, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> may have said:

>datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>>
>> EVER WONDER WHY your supplier has a bad attitude?
>>
>> "Well I bought the Randonee..... not sure I'm gonna keep
>> it tho. have 30 days to decide, right? "
>
>REI = Return Every Item?

That's why they have garage sales.

(At REI garage sales, I've seen some impressive demonstrations of the
observation that nothing is idiot-proof.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Hank]

On Apr 1, 8:03 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 9:36 am, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
> > just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
> > Randonee.
>
> Indeed. I find it strange that the Randonee specs a road rear hub,
> when 135mm is pretty much standard for touring/trekking these days. I
> didn't see it clearly specced on the site so didn't mention it, though
> I was pretty sure it was 130.
>
> I do see a benefit to this, though. A lot of people walk into an REI
> and say: "gimme a bike to do everything", and the Randonee is a great
> answer to this. Under a grand, and upon casual inspection it has the
> same gee-whiz shifters that the racy bikes have. If the owner wants to
> buy a pair of super-light weekend century wheels--they'll fit the
> spacing just fine. If somebody wants a true expedition quality bike,
> the REI people can point towards the Novara Safari.

And it wouldn't surprise me if the frame is spaced at 132.5, like many
in-betweenish frames are (Surly Cross-check, Nashbar Touring) and I
think that's a great idea - not even really a compromise.. But out of
the box, the Randonee's rear wheel is weaker than the LHT's, by virtue
of its greater dish.

 

[landotter]

On Apr 1, 4:56 pm, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 8:03 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 9:36 am, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
> > > just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
> > > Randonee.
>
> > Indeed. I find it strange that the Randonee specs a road rear hub,
> > when 135mm is pretty much standard for touring/trekking these days. I
> > didn't see it clearly specced on the site so didn't men
tion it, though
> > I was pretty sure it was 130.
>
> > I do see a benefit to this, though. A lot of people walk into an REI
> > and say: "gimme a bike to do everything", and the Randonee is a great
> > answer to this. Under a grand, and upon casual inspection it has the
> > same gee-whiz shifters that the racy bikes have. If the owner wants to
> > buy a pair of super-light weekend century wheels--they'll fit the
> > spacing just fine. If somebody wants a true expedition quality bike,
> > the REI people can point towards the Novara Safari.
>
> And it wouldn't surprise me if the frame is spaced at 132.5, like many
> in-betweenish frames are (Surly Cross-check, Nashbar Touring) and I
> think that's a great idea - not even really a compromise.

A quick google seems to indicate that it's indeed a 130mm and that's
been a PITA for people looking to buy off the shelf replacement
wheels.

Well, I guess that gives the OP an excuse to return it--how *dare* REI
spec such hubs on a *touring* bike.

<shakes fist>

However, for anything short of heavy touring, and with the wheel
dialed in, I doubt it will be unreliable.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:57:20 -0500, Tom Sherman
> <[email protected]> may have said:
>
>> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>>>>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>>>> Mount on what?
>>>>
>>>> Who are you talking to?
>>> well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
>>> generic spokes.
>>> less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee
>> I thought that was in West Grain Elevator?
>
> In West Grain Elevator you get tutelage in Corn Shuck Macrame.
> Taxidermy is the favorite in Des Moines, particularly during tourist
> season along I-70.
>
I-80 traverses Iowa east-west. I-70 at similar longitudes is in the
State of Misery, er Missouri.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[datakoll]

On Apr 1, 6:36 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 4:56 pm, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 8:03 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 1, 9:36 am, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > And at the end of the day, most tourists would prefer the LHT's wheels
> > > > just for the reduced dish offered by the 135mm spacing, vs. 130 on the
> > > > Randonee.
>
> > > Indeed. I find it strange that the Randonee specs a road rear hub,
> > > when 135mm is pretty much standard for touring/trekking these days. I
> > > didn't see it clearly specced on the site so didn't men
> tion it, though
> > > I was pretty sure it was 130.
>
> > > I do see a benefit to this, though. A lot of people walk into an REI
> > > and say: "gimme a bike to do everything", and the Randonee is a great
> > > answer to this. Under a grand, and upon casual inspection it has the
> > > same gee-whiz shifters that the racy bikes have. If the owner wants to
> > > buy a pair of super-light weekend century wheels--they'll fit the
> > > spacing just fine. If somebody wants a true expedition quality bike,
> > > the REI people can point towards the Novara Safari.
>
> > And it wouldn't surprise me if the frame is spaced at 132.5, like many
> > in-betweenish frames are (Surly Cross-check, Nashbar Touring) and I
> > think that's a great idea - not even really a compromise.
>
> A quick google seems to indicate that it's indeed a 130mm and that's
> been a PITA for people looking to buy off the shelf replacement
> wheels.
>
> Well, I guess that gives the OP an excuse to return it--how *dare* REI
> spec such hubs on a *touring* bike.
>
> <shakes fist>
>
> However, for anything short of heavy touring, and with the wheel
> dialed in, I doubt it will be unreliable.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

THE RAD COSTS $900 with a steel frame spreadable to 135mm, that's the $
$$ mix. The safari has all the goodies with an aluminum frame welded
by a monkey butbutbut "this morning the Safari had deore deore deore"
then this afternoon the safari was tiagra/sram.
The buyer M said he bought generic spokes on the weaker wheel.
so keep your eyes open and deal for the deore.
Chalire Chan loads boat no?

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:42:30 -0500, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> may have said:

>Werehatrack wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:57:20 -0500, Tom Sherman
>> <[email protected]> may have said:
>>
>>> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>>>> On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
>>>>>> with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
>>>>> Mount on what?
>>>>>
>>>>> Who are you talking to?
>>>> well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
>>>> generic spokes.
>>>> less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee
>>> I thought that was in West Grain Elevator?
>>
>> In West Grain Elevator you get tutelage in Corn Shuck Macrame.
>> Taxidermy is the favorite in Des Moines, particularly during tourist
>> season along I-70.
>>
>I-80 traverses Iowa east-west. I-70 at similar longitudes is in the
>State of Misery, er Missouri.

Yup, you're right. I guess that possum skinning would be the hobby of
choice along 70. Further south, along I-20, it's Architectural Use Of
Freeway Armadilloes.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[[email protected]]

landotter <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, I guess that gives the OP an excuse to return it--how *dare* REI
>spec such hubs on a *touring* bike.

So the Randonee has a road hub on it?

 

[landotter]

On Apr 2, 10:40 am, [email protected] wrote:
> landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Well, I guess that gives the OP an excuse to return it--how *dare* REI
> >spec such hubs on a *touring* bike.
>
> So the Randonee has a road hub on it?

Yeah, which is no major scandal. It means that it's 5mm narrower than
mtb/touring hubs which are fairly standard these days on touring
bikes, and that it'll be dished slightly more and thus slightly
weaker. All that said, if the wheel is dialed, and you're not hauling
expedition level loads, and otherwise enjoy the bike--don't fret about
it.

The upside to having road spacing is that you can buy some off the
shelf "fast" wheels, like some Ultegra/OPs, mount up some 28mm tires
and a close ratio cassette--and the Randonee becomes a little more
sporting for weekend fun rides--all with a quick wheel change.

 

[Woland99]

On Mar 31, 10:34 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
> >about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel and I
> >wanted durable bike. Plus I know everybody in the bike shop at local
> >REI and those guys are fantastic when it comes to service and repairs.
>
> How you liking hat Novara Randonee so far?
>
> I bought one over the weekend..... 55 cm model....
> haven't put any miles on it yet. I can return it if I
> don't like it, right?

Yeah - you can ALWAYS return things to REI - as long as it is within
some reasonable time - ie. not couple of years. Altho that is just
if you do not want them to look at you funny. Their policy has no
limitats - I once returned a kayak that I had for over 5 years.
They looked at me funny but I did not care.

I presume you took advantage of 20% off - so now you can ride it
for a few week and test ride LHT too.

I like my Randonee a lot and ride it every chance I have but I
must confess - I was not looking for a hardcore touring bike when
I bought it - rather I wanted a steel frame, road-like bike that
could carry my weight. SO I was looking at touring and cyclocross
bikes. Randonee seemed like a good choice - decent components, price
and good REI service and satisfaction guarantee.

I presume that some of the critique (130 vs 135) discussed here is
applicable - I was not aware of that issue. I have 57cm Randonee
which fits me perfectly and I use it now as a stepping stone toward
real roadbike (losing weight etc) - after I get one I wlll be very
likely still using Randonee as a backup/commuting bike.