Touring wheelset...



[email protected] wrote:

> And the camping went 45-55 rear/30 front. Depends what you load off
> course. That sounds dumb but fall clothing, three days food-carry 3
> gallons water? Are you traveling down the road or riding out to camp?

OK, 3 gallons of water would do it. I was figuring on getting it at
each campsite, and along the way.
3 gallons = approx 12 litres = approx 25lbs. Touché!



> The boat grease is ok with me. I have it in the BB for a temp
> rebuild/repack before replacing the BB. I tend to believe the castrol
> marine doesn't flow under and around the bearings as well as the
> designed for slow speeds and low temps cycle greases.

I do use Finish Line because the tube screws into a nice miniature
grease gun I have, designed for GreaseGuard, with which I can inject
the oil holes of a classic hub. It is different from the Castrol: much
harder to use for example to pack a bearing or coat a cable or a
threaded fastener or seal a joint- doesn't spread well. I wouldn't
use it except haven't found a container to use the Castrol in with the
mini-grease gun. The price is something like... 100x Castrol?

> Are you implying the cycle grease people are yanking our chain?

Yup. Really really really hard.
 
Chalo wrote:
>> I have a A719 to which I fitted a Continental Ultra Gatorskin 28.
>> It didn't seat well and looked too narrow and "wrong".
>
> How different is that from a 23mm tire on a 19mm rim, which is a
> routine combination?
>
> I used to run Continental Super Sport 700x28 tires on Mavic M261 rims
> (26mm actual width). I wouldn't have toured with that setup-- I'd
> want something fatter for comfort-- but it seemed to work just fine.

Ok, I accept the overwhelming number of corrections that the A719 can take
28mm tyres even though it doesn't match my experience. I couldn't get the
UltraGatorskin seated properly. Maybe I could have tried harder but I
didn't need to on narrower rims, and wider Panaracer tyres have seated
easily on the A719.

Note: UltraGatorskin 28 actually is a bit narrower than 28mm (when measured
on MA2 rim).

~PB
 
On 28 Sep 2005 00:46:29 GMT, Antti Salonen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The truly funny part is that the lighest Ksyrium wheels, which still
>aren't particularly light, have fat aluminium spokes. They have an aero
>shape but they are still fat. Reportedly, Ksyrium SL's are no more
>aerodynamic than a traditional 32-spoked wheel which weighs the same or
>less and costs much less. I believe the aerodynamics were tested by the
>German magazine Tour.
>
>Add to that boutique hubs which have a reputation of freewheel problems
>and you have a truly bad deal. Somehow these are also some of the best
>selling wheels on the market.

And if sales projections fall, they can probably make them cheaper by a
lot before going under cost. I think it might be one of those 'Shimano'
things -- very cheap OEM deals.

Jasper
 
In article <[email protected]>, Antti Salonen
<[email protected]> wrote:

> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ahhh... The Ksyrium wheel. Neither aerodynamic like the Zipp 404 or
> > 909 and neither light compared to some of the custom hand built wheels.
> > Easy sell. Hand built 32 spokes or even 28 -- harder sell, except
> > maybe to a seasoned veteran who knows better.
>
> The truly funny part is that the lighest Ksyrium wheels, which still
> aren't particularly light, have fat aluminium spokes. They have an aero
> shape but they are still fat. Reportedly, Ksyrium SL's are no more
> aerodynamic than a traditional 32-spoked wheel which weighs the same or
> less and costs much less. I believe the aerodynamics were tested by the
> German magazine Tour.
>

Apparently, oval shaped aero spokes (can look kind of fat to you) can
generate less wake which is then more aerodynamic.

Best wheels to go fast would be the heavier but much more deeper rim
profile. However, to take advantage of the aerodynamic properties of
these wheels, you need to average at least above 22mph. Ideal would 25
to 28mph -- you're already a CAT racer if you can do this. Sadly
enough, most people who buy them average about 12 to 16mph, providing
absolutely no maximum benefits these boutique wheels give them. They
would do no worse with hand built 32 spoked wheels. So.... I guess,
most people buy them for their looks and their hype I suppose.

> Add to that boutique hubs which have a reputation of freewheel problems
> and you have a truly bad deal. Somehow these are also some of the best
> selling wheels on the market.
>
> -as

Not all boutique hubs are like that. Some are really good, but will
cost the manufacturer a bit more money. This extra cost will need to
be passed on to the consumer. Boutique wheels, being competitive as
they are, are already priced at a specific price point. They are
afraid that if they go over that, consumers will look at another maker.

Consumers don't care if you're being nice and informative. In the end,
they'll buy into the hype. It's sad, but that's the way it is.
Hopefully, they'll live and learn and eventually will buy hand built
wheels.

David.
 
PatC said:
I'm looking to have a set of touring wheels hand-built, but I need to do it
on a budget (I think about $350.) Dollars are relative though. If I can
get significantly lighter, more durable wheels, I would probably spend
more.

I weigh just under 200 pounds, I very rarely ride off pavement, but do
encounter some rough tar and chip. I'd like to be capable of "medium"
loaded touring (somewhere between light and heavy! I don't have time for
heavy.)

I've been looking at Mavic MA3 rims, double butted spokes 14/15, and
Shimano LX hubs. Are there other good touring rims and hub combinations I
should consider? Is it worth the bucks for Phil Wood hubs or other higher
end hubs?

I'm also the same poster that asked about the 28c Panaracer Pasela TG's
popping off the Velocity wheels. I really still think the wide single-wall
rims cause the tires to pop off at higher pressures. I don't think I'd
ever run larger than 36c, or smaller than 28c on this wheelset. How should
I consider rim width?

Also, is it worth going for a "premier" national wheel builder like Peter
White, or should a good LBS have a good wheel builder? We have a couple of
great bike shops (and a couple of lousy ones) in Nashville, TN.

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the zillion questions!
Click to expand...
If your bicycle frame handles 135 rear spacing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7185300947
New hand built 36 spoke Mavic A719s on Shimano XT hubs
 
Pete Biggs wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
> > For heavy duty, the A719 is many, many, many times better than the
> > CXP33. If you do not like the A719, go to the Velocity Dyad or Sun
> > CR18, both much better than the CXP33 for this application.
>
> Fair enough, except I would want to use wider tyres for heavy duty as they
> help protect the rim as well as giving a better ride. However, I accept
> that this is not always possible due to clearance problems. The answer then
> is to get a different frame :)

That is one approach. But this is an 18 year old frame and I just had
it re-finished, and most of the components (except the wheels) are
original. I was looking at taking it to at least 30 years old ;-)
Another option I have toyed with is converting to 650B wheels; then I
should have clearance for bigger tires :)

- rick
 
Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Pete Biggs writes:
> >
> > >> For heavy duty, the A719 is many, many, many times better than the
> > >> CXP33. If you do not like the A719, go to the Velocity Dyad or Sun
> > >> CR18, both much better than the CXP33 for this application.
> >
> > > Fair enough, except I would want to use wider tyres for heavy duty
> > > as they help protect the rim as well as giving a better ride.
> > > However, I accept that this is not always possible due to clearance
> > > problems. The answer then is to get a different frame.
> >
> > What sort of roads are you guys riding on? Considering the many
> > years of riding the Alps on unpaved mountain passes (Stelvio, Albula,
> > Pordoi, St. Bernard, Simplon, Splugen) and the many cobblestone
> > roads, I can't imagine what tires fatter than 25mm are needed for. I
> > don't think descending the 19th century Col de Tende today would go
> > any better on 32mm tires.
> >
> > This seems to be a competition of raising spurious riding conditions
> > to support some oddball wheels. Just spoke up some durable 36 spoke
> > rims and be done with it. There still are some of those rims made
> > although they remain well hidden.
>
> Name some? The Torelli Master is discontinued. Ambrosio
> rims are not available in the USA. ???
>

Sun CR-18, inexpensive and very durable. Available in 36 hole and
other drillings. Sold by Sheldon, Lickbike, and others. Your LBS can
also order them (assuming they have a clue).
 
what does your rig weigh, what's in it?
the water is an optional extra.
did the new MSR catalog find your box?

the grease thing is unfathomable without expertise: one can derive
multiple paths of logical thought one step removed from change the oil
not the filter and proceed iraationally with complete conviction
but search 'google scholar' for lubrication then ILL
for examplethe first page lists

[BOOK] Fundamentals of Fluid Film Lubrication
BJ Hamrock, SR Schmid, BO Jacobson - 2004 - print.google.com
.... Page 2. Thj e One I 4AAL-XFZ-PSB3 Page 3. Fundamentals of Fluid
Film Lubrication
Page 4. ... Lubrication in Practice: Second Edition, edited by WS
Robertson 28. ...

CITATION] Elasto-hydrodynamic lubrication; the fundamentals of roller
and gear lubrication
D Dowson, GR Higginson - 1966 - Oxford, New York, Pergamon Press

[BOOK] Friction and Lubrication of Solids
FP Bowden, D Tabor - 1996 - print.google.com
.... At higher speeds the lubrication is more hydrodyimamic but there is
still some
breakulown of the lubricamut film. i_' __ a. 'hseaslty 35-4
eemutlstokes ...

i write this caws i went on with this drivel-
well i use the heavy castrol marine on worn moon surfaced parts and use
the finish line on new rebuilds
BECAUSE! parts slamming off one surface across alarge hole then into
the next ledge need cushioning and heavy grease fills the hole
whereas new parts need light flowable grease providing a slick film
(filling all those small crevasse we see in the electron scope picture
shimano sends with every hub) new parts glide over effortlessly quietly
frictionless (slamslamslam)
and you see that's very comforting but it makes no sense whatsoever.

about the only rational approach-touring or hd touring down dirt roads
or over the divide v regular road riding is the castrol walls out dirt
with it's heavyness and keeps rolling the dirty outward as the grease
spins out the seals. then off course if you blow a seal then the
castrol's on your side. that's why the castrol spreads like peanut
butter - it doesn;t flow. the stuff is durable. put a torch to it or
fill it with dirt and the catrol marine lopes along feeling slimey

now the finish line owe de '58 chevy does a truly remarkable stunt- it
walls up firmly (quantum mechanics) on either side of the bearing's
path and goes fluid under the bicycle bearing's friction heat. whichn
is what we want isn't it?? that's what realive racers do right-use
thinnnnest oil possible and finish-ask jeff gordon.

and get ornee to use long nipples.
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,

[...]

> >
> > Name some? The Torelli Master is discontinued. Ambrosio
> > rims are not available in the USA. ???
> >
>
> Sun CR-18, inexpensive and very durable. Available in 36 hole and
> other drillings. Sold by Sheldon, Lickbike, and others. Your LBS can
> also order them (assuming they have a clue).

Thanks, they do. I get the 27" CR-18 for the Raleigh International,
and am satisfied with them.

--
Michael Press
 
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:20:37 -0700, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jasper Janssen wrote:

>> In the 0 spokes edge case, certainly, but with spokes you should get
>> approximately the same distortion on the bottom, and an identical region
>> on the top, wouldn't you? So a double W, as it were.

>if the wheel were loaded from top & bottom, you'd have two flat spots at
>each contact point instead of the usual one. is that what you mean?

Yeah, except that they're more slighty indented than just flat, if youy
look at that widely circulated FEA picture.

Jasper
 
Jasper Janssen wrote:
>>if the wheel were loaded from top & bottom, you'd have two flat spots at
>>each contact point instead of the usual one. is that what you mean?

> Yeah, except that they're more slighty indented than just flat, if youy
> look at that widely circulated FEA picture.

They're not really indented. That's an exaggeration of the displacement.
The exaggeration is necessary to visualize the displacement, but it can
distort your perception sometimes.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
 
dumuhown!
ornee's advert is a beaut no?
the wheels should be also
reminds of the ebay CR photo's-photographer placed the snaggle toothed
area in front-but off to the right heheheh
 
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