What percentage of a cholesterol decrease can be attributed to statins ?

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One thing to consider is that Atkins
has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in 30
years?

Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
of his patient population.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

A fairly new study showed that a high protein diet is bad for those
with kidney problems. For those with healthy kidneys the jury is
still out. Re: fats - Mel has it right, but for more details see
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html If your high
protein diet was from eating seafood it might be ok - but from eating
fatty red meat, no. How many grams of protein are you consuming per
day?

Thorsten Schier <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Brad Sheppard schrieb:

Quoted message said:

Lowering carbs may or may not be a good thing. Lowering refined carbs
is very likely good. Before overdosing on protein, I urge you to read
the Harvard School of Public Health's opinion of too much protein - in
a nutshell, getting over 1 gram of protein per kilo of bodyweight may
be dangerous http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/protein.html
Lowering carbs may make sense if you are increasing "good" fats.

Thank you for this interesting link. However, if I didn't overlook
something important, they are not so negative about much protein. The
worst likely problem seems to be that a high protein diet may weaken the
bones. Taking a calcium supplement might prevent this problem. On the
positive side:

" In the Nurses' Health Study, women who ate the most protein (about 110
grams per day) were 25 percent less likely to have had a heart attack or
to have died of heart disease than the women who ate the least protein
(about 68 grams per day) over a 14-year period."

I notice that they don't mention that a high protein diet might be a
strain on the kidneys, something you can sometimes hear.

So basically you have the choice between a higher risk of broken bones
and a higher risk of heart attack. I think I'm going for the broken
bones.

Eating good fats is certainly a goog idea, that is, if you can tell me
what the good fats are. There seems to be a considerable amount of
uncertainty about this. The authors of the article you cited seem to
think that saturated fat is somehow unhealthy. I would like to see a
study that this is really true.

Thorsten

Blue Mu_n said:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

One thing to consider is that Atkins

Quoted message said:

has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in 30
years?

Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
of his patient population.

Strikingly similar to the 2PoundDiet protagonists' behavior.

Pastorio

"Blue Mu_n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One thing to consider is that Atkins
has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years?

Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
of his patient population.

Care to cite references?

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thorsten Schier wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Joe Smigiel wrote:
> >
> [...]
> > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
> > > carbs...)
> >
> > Carbs don't cause obesity.
>
> A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that.

If that were true, it should be easy for you to cite research studies
describing carbohydrates causing obesity.

Please don't cite Dr. Atkins:

(1) He's dead.

(2) He wasn't a scientist. Being a diet guru was not the same.

Being dead doesn't neccessarily negate the value of one's message.

Don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you frequently quote the gospel?

Yes. Jesus is risen, therefore He is not dead.

Yeah, but some of the apostles are decidedly napping for a while until the
second coming.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, you are correct - there is nothing scientific about Atkins. He is

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gospel!

Nor was he a scientist.

No, he sold books and was very successful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> However
> that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of

obese

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> people to lose weight.

Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that research
studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success

rates..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not a scientist either but I think everyone's argument in this

thread,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thus far, has merit. Atkins is very good for short term weight loss.
Sometimes, the initial success encourages people to go further. I do

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is boring, though. I have read preliminary studies on Atkins but

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is not enough data to satisfy me, yet. One thing to consider is that

Atkins

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years?

You have to wonder.

Not really🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have also read intensely on insulin resistance, Syndrome X, etc.,

whatever

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is called these days. Most studies state that between 20 and 25

percent

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of US citizens are insulin resistant. For the insulin resistant, severe
restriction of refined carbs is a good thing. (Note, I did not say
elimination!) But, that also means that 75 to 80 percent of us will not
have insatiable rebound hunger from an occasional side of rice or

potatoes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eaten in moderation with a meal. I am the poster child of insulin
resistance - very small with long skinny legs, no butt but all my weight

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

carried in the middle. I remember going to the store to pick up cat

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knowing that in spite of my best intentions, I would walk out with a

soda.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It wasn't until I seriously dealt with my eating that I was able to pass

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soda and candy bars up without regret.

There is a magic bullet for insulin resistance, though. It is so simple
that I could be the hostess of an infomercial. Instead of expensive

shakes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and radical diets, all one really has to do is exercise. Studies show

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the body can use insulin much more efficiently for 24 to 48 hours after

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hour of moderate exercise. Also, resistance training improves

sensitivity

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the muscles used in the resistance training. Keeping this in mind, I

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to exercise for an hour each day. Instead of running flat out for 20 or

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minutes, I walk briskly for 45 minutes or an hour and follow up with
resistance training. It doesn't take much. I am not graceful. I have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bench and a few free weights and I just do it!

There is also research that shows that metformin can improve insulin
resistance. I am reluctant to try this as long as I can exercise and

eat an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

appropriate diet. If I couldn't exercise or if my food choices were
severely restricted, I would try this.

Quoted message said:

> In addition, it offers a whole host of other
> health benefits like reduced bloodpressure

That happens from losing weight.

It also happens with Atkins as diuresis is quite dramatic in the first
weeks;

Yes.

Quoted message said:

moreso than on a reduced calorie diet. This is one reason why I do
not like to see heart patients on Atkins. Along with the fluid, goes
potassium and many heart patients have rhythm problems or are maintained

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lasix. I have been challenged numerous times from low carb proponents

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

state that OTC K+ supplements are harmless. I am of the rather narrow
opinion that potassium supplementation should never be self supervised
without lab work, etc. I have attended far too many codes for patients

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medically supervised potassium supplementation to believe that one

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try this on their own.

Quoted message said:

> and lower triglcerides.

This also happens largely from losing weight.

Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thing physiologically.

It is especially dangerous for heart patients and being that this is a
cardiology group, I thought I might make a note of that.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> If
> you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book

"Protein

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.

I've read the book - found it fascinating. It makes many good points

and is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not as strict as Atkins. It is also very hard to follow though in real
life. I also like the Zone diet plan but being mathematically

challenged,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is hard for me to figure out all the ratios. Why can't someone put
together a plan that just says eat carbs with protien and watch calories

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exercise? Is it too simple?

See http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Read that, too🙂 Aren't I the well read one? Good points made but I find,
that for me personally, it's almost too simple. Plus, some things I like to
eat are decidedly heavy such as apples and fat free yogurt. That alone
would kill 1/4 of my food each day. And I am not one to weight sauces, etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do believe in the merits of eating a lower carb diet, especially one

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

focuses on vegetables as the main source of carbs. No one ever became
healthier from eating white sugar, candy bars and soft drinks.

Furthermore,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in order to eat lower carb, something must be increased to provide

calories.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Usually this is lean protien. This shouldn't be a problem in moderation

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most people (as long as plenty of water is consumed).

I pay close attention to the glycemic index when choosing foods. It is

far

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more complicated than simply eating protien and fat to the exclusion of
carbs but it makes sense. In Australia, many foods are labeled with

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

glycemic index or glycemic load. I would kill for that to be on our

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

labels. It isn't the end all of nutritional data (french fries have a

lower

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

index than baked potatoes without butter) but it is a start and when
considered along with fats, calories, etc., it makes sense for just

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

everyone.

Quoted message said:

>

I prefer peer-reviewed journal article to books like "Protein Power."

Quoted message said:

The latter sounds too much like "White Power."

And when I think of white powder, my mind automatically turns to white
powder which is another no-no for heart patients🙂

j

Thank you for your comments :-)

You're welcome. Thanks for your comments.

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Brad Sheppard) said:

If your high
protein diet was from eating seafood it might be ok - but from eating
fatty red meat, no.

(I realize you said "fatty" red meat.) Most folks have really cut back
on _all_ beef consumption because of the "limit red meat" medical mantra
of the last 25 years. According to an article in today's Oregonian
Business section on the beef market, the avg. US consumption has dropped
from about 94 lubs in 1976 to 67 lubs in 2002.

Tyson makes a tasty and tender frozen steak, "Beef Flat Iron Griller"
that has the following nutritional breakdown:

Portion size: 177g (roughly $1.75/portion)
Fat: 2 g
Sat. Fat: .5g
Chol: 90mg
Sod: 340mg
Carb: 0g
Prot: 31g

Compare to Bumble Bee, Solid White Albacore in water:

Portion: 140g (roughly $1.70/portion > I eat the entire drained contents
as one portion)
Fat: 2.5g
Sat Fat: 0g
Chol: 62.5mg
Sod: 625mg
Carb: 0g
Protein: 37.5g

Very comparable all around ('cept the salt). Just wanted to point out
the equally healthy nutritional value of a good beef item for folks who
may have read "all" into your "fatty" comment - or the advice folks hear
from their docs.

Owen Lowe said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Brad Sheppard) said:

If your high
protein diet was from eating seafood it might be ok - but from eating
fatty red meat, no.

(I realize you said "fatty" red meat.) Most folks have really cut back
on _all_ beef consumption because of the "limit red meat" medical mantra
of the last 25 years. According to an article in today's Oregonian
Business section on the beef market, the avg. US consumption has dropped
from about 94 lubs in 1976 to 67 lubs in 2002.

Tyson makes a tasty and tender frozen steak, "Beef Flat Iron Griller"
that has the following nutritional breakdown:

Portion size: 177g (roughly $1.75/portion)
Fat: 2 g
Sat. Fat: .5g
Chol: 90mg
Sod: 340mg
Carb: 0g
Prot: 31g

Compare to Bumble Bee, Solid White Albacore in water:

Portion: 140g (roughly $1.70/portion > I eat the entire drained contents
as one portion)
Fat: 2.5g
Sat Fat: 0g
Chol: 62.5mg
Sod: 625mg
Carb: 0g
Protein: 37.5g

Very comparable all around ('cept the salt). Just wanted to point out
the equally healthy nutritional value of a good beef item for folks who
may have read "all" into your "fatty" comment - or the advice folks hear
from their docs.

Would you like to tell us about the hormones used in Tyson's nutritional
beef? Or how about the irridation? No irridation? What else are they doing?
Antibiotics?

C'mon now, comparing fish to red meat? Red meat healthier?

Calling Dr. Chung. :-)

Mel, does not eat any red meat.

Julianne said:

snip<

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes. Jesus is risen, therefore He is not dead.

Yeah, but some of the apostles are decidedly napping for a while until the
second coming.

Listen, if you were waiting over 2000 years for someone to come, you'd also
fall asleep.

Mel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, you are correct - there is nothing scientific about Atkins. He is

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gospel!

Nor was he a scientist.

No, he sold books and was very successful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> > However
> > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of

obese

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > people to lose weight.
>
> Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that research
> studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success

rates..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not a scientist either but I think everyone's argument in this

thread,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thus far, has merit. Atkins is very good for short term weight loss.
Sometimes, the initial success encourages people to go further. I do

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is boring, though. I have read preliminary studies on Atkins but

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is not enough data to satisfy me, yet. One thing to consider is that

Atkins

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years?

You have to wonder.

Not really🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have also read intensely on insulin resistance, Syndrome X, etc.,

whatever

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is called these days. Most studies state that between 20 and 25

percent

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of US citizens are insulin resistant. For the insulin resistant, severe
restriction of refined carbs is a good thing. (Note, I did not say
elimination!) But, that also means that 75 to 80 percent of us will not
have insatiable rebound hunger from an occasional side of rice or

potatoes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eaten in moderation with a meal. I am the poster child of insulin
resistance - very small with long skinny legs, no butt but all my weight

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

carried in the middle. I remember going to the store to pick up cat

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knowing that in spite of my best intentions, I would walk out with a

soda.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It wasn't until I seriously dealt with my eating that I was able to pass

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soda and candy bars up without regret.

There is a magic bullet for insulin resistance, though. It is so simple
that I could be the hostess of an infomercial. Instead of expensive

shakes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and radical diets, all one really has to do is exercise. Studies show

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the body can use insulin much more efficiently for 24 to 48 hours after

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hour of moderate exercise. Also, resistance training improves

sensitivity

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the muscles used in the resistance training. Keeping this in mind, I

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to exercise for an hour each day. Instead of running flat out for 20 or

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minutes, I walk briskly for 45 minutes or an hour and follow up with
resistance training. It doesn't take much. I am not graceful. I have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bench and a few free weights and I just do it!

There is also research that shows that metformin can improve insulin
resistance. I am reluctant to try this as long as I can exercise and

eat an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

appropriate diet. If I couldn't exercise or if my food choices were
severely restricted, I would try this.
>
> > In addition, it offers a whole host of other
> > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure
>
> That happens from losing weight.

It also happens with Atkins as diuresis is quite dramatic in the first
weeks;

Yes.

Quoted message said:

moreso than on a reduced calorie diet. This is one reason why I do
not like to see heart patients on Atkins. Along with the fluid, goes
potassium and many heart patients have rhythm problems or are maintained

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lasix. I have been challenged numerous times from low carb proponents

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

state that OTC K+ supplements are harmless. I am of the rather narrow
opinion that potassium supplementation should never be self supervised
without lab work, etc. I have attended far too many codes for patients

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medically supervised potassium supplementation to believe that one

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try this on their own.
>
> > and lower triglcerides.
>
> This also happens largely from losing weight.
>
> Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> thing physiologically.

It is especially dangerous for heart patients and being that this is a
cardiology group, I thought I might make a note of that.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

> > If
> > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book

"Protein

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.

I've read the book - found it fascinating. It makes many good points

and is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not as strict as Atkins. It is also very hard to follow though in real
life. I also like the Zone diet plan but being mathematically

challenged,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is hard for me to figure out all the ratios. Why can't someone put
together a plan that just says eat carbs with protien and watch calories

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exercise? Is it too simple?

See http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Read that, too🙂 Aren't I the well read one? Good points made but I find,
that for me personally, it's almost too simple. Plus, some things I like to
eat are decidedly heavy such as apples and fat free yogurt. That alone
would kill 1/4 of my food each day. And I am not one to weight sauces, etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do believe in the merits of eating a lower carb diet, especially one

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

focuses on vegetables as the main source of carbs. No one ever became
healthier from eating white sugar, candy bars and soft drinks.

Furthermore,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in order to eat lower carb, something must be increased to provide

calories.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Usually this is lean protien. This shouldn't be a problem in moderation

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most people (as long as plenty of water is consumed).

I pay close attention to the glycemic index when choosing foods. It is

far

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more complicated than simply eating protien and fat to the exclusion of
carbs but it makes sense. In Australia, many foods are labeled with

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

glycemic index or glycemic load. I would kill for that to be on our

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

labels. It isn't the end all of nutritional data (french fries have a

lower

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

index than baked potatoes without butter) but it is a start and when
considered along with fats, calories, etc., it makes sense for just

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

everyone.

> >
>
> I prefer peer-reviewed journal article to books like "Protein Power."

>
> The latter sounds too much like "White Power."

And when I think of white powder, my mind automatically turns to white
powder which is another no-no for heart patients🙂

j

Thank you for your comments :-)

You're welcome. Thanks for your comments.

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Merlano said:

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 16:47:55 GMT, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> Joe Smigiel wrote:
>
>> I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
>> pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
>> (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
>> CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4

weeks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30%

since

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> graduating from the program.
>>
>> My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
>> Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
>> several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
>> month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5.
>
> You probably mean LDL/HDL ratio.
>
>> Yesterday I had
>> another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
>> 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
>>
>
> Your HDL needs to be higher. More exercise should help that.
>
>>
>> Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
>> smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years),
>
> Good.
>
>> continuing to exercise
>> 5-6 times per week
>
> This needs to be aerobic for at least 30 minutes daily preferably

before

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> supper.

Why before supper? And do you mean directly before supper or at any time of
the day prior to the evening meal?

Right before supper. There have been studies that suggest the lipid profile
will respond more favorably.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Brad Sheppard said:

A fairly new study showed that a high protein diet is bad for those
with kidney problems.

Old news. Physicians have been counseling folks with kidneys problems to avoid high protein
diets for years if not decades.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Joe Smigiel wrote:
> > >
> > [...]
> > > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
> > > > carbs...)
> > >
> > > Carbs don't cause obesity.
> >
> > A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that.
>
> If that were true, it should be easy for you to cite research studies
> describing carbohydrates causing obesity.
>
> Please don't cite Dr. Atkins:
>
> (1) He's dead.
>
> (2) He wasn't a scientist. Being a diet guru was not the same.

Being dead doesn't neccessarily negate the value of one's message.

Don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you frequently quote the gospel?

Yes. Jesus is risen, therefore He is not dead.

Yeah, but some of the apostles are decidedly napping for a while until the
second coming.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, you are correct - there is nothing scientific about Atkins. He is

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

gospel!

Nor was he a scientist.

No, he sold books and was very successful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> > However
> > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority of

obese

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > people to lose weight.
>
> Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that research
> studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success

rates..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not a scientist either but I think everyone's argument in this

thread,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thus far, has merit. Atkins is very good for short term weight loss.
Sometimes, the initial success encourages people to go further. I do

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is boring, though. I have read preliminary studies on Atkins but

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is not enough data to satisfy me, yet. One thing to consider is that

Atkins

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years?

You have to wonder.

Not really🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have also read intensely on insulin resistance, Syndrome X, etc.,

whatever

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is called these days. Most studies state that between 20 and 25

percent

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of US citizens are insulin resistant. For the insulin resistant, severe
restriction of refined carbs is a good thing. (Note, I did not say
elimination!) But, that also means that 75 to 80 percent of us will not
have insatiable rebound hunger from an occasional side of rice or

potatoes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eaten in moderation with a meal. I am the poster child of insulin
resistance - very small with long skinny legs, no butt but all my weight

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

carried in the middle. I remember going to the store to pick up cat

food

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knowing that in spite of my best intentions, I would walk out with a

soda.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It wasn't until I seriously dealt with my eating that I was able to pass

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soda and candy bars up without regret.

There is a magic bullet for insulin resistance, though. It is so simple
that I could be the hostess of an infomercial. Instead of expensive

shakes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and radical diets, all one really has to do is exercise. Studies show

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the body can use insulin much more efficiently for 24 to 48 hours after

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hour of moderate exercise. Also, resistance training improves

sensitivity

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the muscles used in the resistance training. Keeping this in mind, I

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to exercise for an hour each day. Instead of running flat out for 20 or

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

minutes, I walk briskly for 45 minutes or an hour and follow up with
resistance training. It doesn't take much. I am not graceful. I have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bench and a few free weights and I just do it!

There is also research that shows that metformin can improve insulin
resistance. I am reluctant to try this as long as I can exercise and

eat an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

appropriate diet. If I couldn't exercise or if my food choices were
severely restricted, I would try this.
>
> > In addition, it offers a whole host of other
> > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure
>
> That happens from losing weight.

It also happens with Atkins as diuresis is quite dramatic in the first
weeks;

Yes.

Quoted message said:

moreso than on a reduced calorie diet. This is one reason why I do
not like to see heart patients on Atkins. Along with the fluid, goes
potassium and many heart patients have rhythm problems or are maintained

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lasix. I have been challenged numerous times from low carb proponents

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

state that OTC K+ supplements are harmless. I am of the rather narrow
opinion that potassium supplementation should never be self supervised
without lab work, etc. I have attended far too many codes for patients

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medically supervised potassium supplementation to believe that one

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try this on their own.
>
> > and lower triglcerides.
>
> This also happens largely from losing weight.
>
> Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> thing physiologically.

It is especially dangerous for heart patients and being that this is a
cardiology group, I thought I might make a note of that.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

> > If
> > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book

"Protein

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.

I've read the book - found it fascinating. It makes many good points

and is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not as strict as Atkins. It is also very hard to follow though in real
life. I also like the Zone diet plan but being mathematically

challenged,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is hard for me to figure out all the ratios. Why can't someone put
together a plan that just says eat carbs with protien and watch calories

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exercise? Is it too simple?

See http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Read that, too🙂 Aren't I the well read one? Good points made but I find,
that for me personally, it's almost too simple. Plus, some things I like to
eat are decidedly heavy such as apples and fat free yogurt. That alone
would kill 1/4 of my food each day. And I am not one to weight sauces, etc.

Why are you fighting for every morsel of food?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Blue Mu_n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One thing to consider is that Atkins
has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data in

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years?

Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
of his patient population.

Care to cite references?

If the late Dr. Atkins' refused to participate in such studies, one would
expect that there would be no references to be found.

A good review article on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/q404

A good reference list:

http://tinyurl.com/q401

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> news:[email hidden]...
> > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Joe Smigiel wrote:
> > > >
> > > [...]
> > > > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
> > > > > carbs...)
> > > >
> > > > Carbs don't cause obesity.
> > >
> > > A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that.
> >
> > If that were true, it should be easy for you to cite research

studies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > describing carbohydrates causing obesity.
> >
> > Please don't cite Dr. Atkins:
> >
> > (1) He's dead.
> >
> > (2) He wasn't a scientist. Being a diet guru was not the same.
>
> Being dead doesn't neccessarily negate the value of one's message.

Don't

Quoted message said:

> you frequently quote the gospel?
>

Yes. Jesus is risen, therefore He is not dead.

Yeah, but some of the apostles are decidedly napping for a while until

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

second coming.

Quoted message said:

>
> But, you are correct - there is nothing scientific about Atkins. He

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not

Quoted message said:

> gospel!
>

Nor was he a scientist.

No, he sold books and was very successful.

Quoted message said:

> >
> > > However
> > > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

obese

Quoted message said:

> > > people to lose weight.
> >
> > Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that

research

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success

rates..

Quoted message said:

>
> I am not a scientist either but I think everyone's argument in this

thread,

Quoted message said:

> thus far, has merit. Atkins is very good for short term weight

loss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Sometimes, the initial success encourages people to go further. I

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think

Quoted message said:

> it is boring, though. I have read preliminary studies on Atkins but

there

Quoted message said:

> is not enough data to satisfy me, yet. One thing to consider is

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Atkins

Quoted message said:

> has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30

Quoted message said:

> years?
>

You have to wonder.

Not really🙂

Quoted message said:

>
> I have also read intensely on insulin resistance, Syndrome X, etc.,

whatever

Quoted message said:

> it is called these days. Most studies state that between 20 and 25

percent

Quoted message said:

> of US citizens are insulin resistant. For the insulin resistant,

severe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> restriction of refined carbs is a good thing. (Note, I did not say
> elimination!) But, that also means that 75 to 80 percent of us will

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> have insatiable rebound hunger from an occasional side of rice or

potatoes

Quoted message said:

> eaten in moderation with a meal. I am the poster child of insulin
> resistance - very small with long skinny legs, no butt but all my

weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

> carried in the middle. I remember going to the store to pick up cat

food

Quoted message said:

> knowing that in spite of my best intentions, I would walk out with a

soda.

Quoted message said:

> It wasn't until I seriously dealt with my eating that I was able to

pass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

> soda and candy bars up without regret.
>
> There is a magic bullet for insulin resistance, though. It is so

simple

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> that I could be the hostess of an infomercial. Instead of expensive

shakes

Quoted message said:

> and radical diets, all one really has to do is exercise. Studies

show

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that

Quoted message said:

> the body can use insulin much more efficiently for 24 to 48 hours

after

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an

Quoted message said:

> hour of moderate exercise. Also, resistance training improves

sensitivity

Quoted message said:

> to the muscles used in the resistance training. Keeping this in

mind, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try

Quoted message said:

> to exercise for an hour each day. Instead of running flat out for

20 or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30

Quoted message said:

> minutes, I walk briskly for 45 minutes or an hour and follow up with
> resistance training. It doesn't take much. I am not graceful. I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

> bench and a few free weights and I just do it!
>
> There is also research that shows that metformin can improve insulin
> resistance. I am reluctant to try this as long as I can exercise

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat an

Quoted message said:

> appropriate diet. If I couldn't exercise or if my food choices were
> severely restricted, I would try this.
> >
> > > In addition, it offers a whole host of other
> > > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure
> >
> > That happens from losing weight.
>
> It also happens with Atkins as diuresis is quite dramatic in the

first

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> weeks;

Yes.

> moreso than on a reduced calorie diet. This is one reason why I do
> not like to see heart patients on Atkins. Along with the fluid,

goes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> potassium and many heart patients have rhythm problems or are

maintained

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

> lasix. I have been challenged numerous times from low carb

proponents

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who

Quoted message said:

> state that OTC K+ supplements are harmless. I am of the rather

narrow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> opinion that potassium supplementation should never be self

supervised

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> without lab work, etc. I have attended far too many codes for

patients

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with

Quoted message said:

> medically supervised potassium supplementation to believe that one

should

Quoted message said:

> try this on their own.
> >
> > > and lower triglcerides.
> >
> > This also happens largely from losing weight.
> >
> > Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good

Quoted message said:

> > thing physiologically.
>
> It is especially dangerous for heart patients and being that this is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> cardiology group, I thought I might make a note of that.
>

Correct.

>
> > > If
> > > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book

"Protein

Quoted message said:

> > > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.
>
> I've read the book - found it fascinating. It makes many good

points

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and is

Quoted message said:

> not as strict as Atkins. It is also very hard to follow though in

real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> life. I also like the Zone diet plan but being mathematically

challenged,

Quoted message said:

> it is hard for me to figure out all the ratios. Why can't someone

put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> together a plan that just says eat carbs with protien and watch

calories

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> exercise? Is it too simple?
>

See http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Read that, too🙂 Aren't I the well read one? Good points made but I

find,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that for me personally, it's almost too simple. Plus, some things I

like to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat are decidedly heavy such as apples and fat free yogurt. That alone
would kill 1/4 of my food each day. And I am not one to weight sauces,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why are you fighting for every morsel of food?

Because I live in a culture where food is a central point of social
activity. Since giving up refined sugars and carbs, it is easier but, I am
a really good cook and I enjoy eating. Furthermore, I really do believe, at
least where I am concerned, that exercise as an adjunct to moderately
lowered calories is far more beneficial than restriction in calories. I
like the way I feel after exercising. But, burning off 500 calories when
restricting calories is challenging.. For instance, I can easily lose
weight eating 1200 calories a day. If I eat 1200 calories a day and burn off
500 calories a day, it leaves me with a net of 700. If I didn't experience
hunger or irritability, this would be fine. I find that if I adjust my
calories to 1200 plus the estimated amount I burn off, I do better.

For me, eating smaller amounts of really good food is far more preferable to
over eating trash! When I am unable to feed myself well, I go for a protien
shake or another low-cal alternative and 'save' my calories for when I can
sit down and enjoy really good food. Note that for me really good food is 4
oz of a good steak, maybe a salad (depending on the dressing and the
presence of radical veggies) and some wine. In addition to the weight loss
and health benefits, it is notable that I feel better after eating a smaller
amount of really good food. I have never been to a restuarant that served 4
oz of steak and thus, my morning after omelettes are great!

Alas, I cannot eat seafood which brings me to another question that you may
be able to answer. I am severly allergic to shellfish and get ill when I
eat fresh water fish. Note that I live in South Louisiana which is mostly
below sea level. Most of our water is at least 'brackish'. My question is
if I take supplements (EPA, etc.) will I be in danger of doing the
anaphylaxis dance? I do so hate it. It wears me out for days🙂

j

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...
> Julianne wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > news:[email hidden]...
> > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Smigiel wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > > > > and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
> > > > > > carbs...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Carbs don't cause obesity.
> > > >
> > > > A growing number of scientists will disagree with you on that.
> > >
> > > If that were true, it should be easy for you to cite research

studies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > describing carbohydrates causing obesity.
> > >
> > > Please don't cite Dr. Atkins:
> > >
> > > (1) He's dead.
> > >
> > > (2) He wasn't a scientist. Being a diet guru was not the same.
> >
> > Being dead doesn't neccessarily negate the value of one's message.
Don't
> > you frequently quote the gospel?
> >
>
> Yes. Jesus is risen, therefore He is not dead.

Yeah, but some of the apostles are decidedly napping for a while until

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

second coming.
>
> >
> > But, you are correct - there is nothing scientific about Atkins. He

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not
> > gospel!
> >
>
> Nor was he a scientist.

No, he sold books and was very successful.
>
> > >
> > > > However
> > > > that may be, cutting out most carbs will cause a vast majority

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

obese
> > > > people to lose weight.
> > >
> > > Cutting out anything will cause weight loss. Problem is that

research

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > studies indicate that such "dieting" has dismal long-term success
rates..
> >
> > I am not a scientist either but I think everyone's argument in this
thread,
> > thus far, has merit. Atkins is very good for short term weight

loss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Sometimes, the initial success encourages people to go further. I

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think
> > it is boring, though. I have read preliminary studies on Atkins but
there
> > is not enough data to satisfy me, yet. One thing to consider is

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Atkins
> > has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30
> > years?
> >
>
> You have to wonder.

Not really🙂
>
> >
> > I have also read intensely on insulin resistance, Syndrome X, etc.,
whatever
> > it is called these days. Most studies state that between 20 and 25
percent
> > of US citizens are insulin resistant. For the insulin resistant,

severe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > restriction of refined carbs is a good thing. (Note, I did not say
> > elimination!) But, that also means that 75 to 80 percent of us will

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > have insatiable rebound hunger from an occasional side of rice or
potatoes
> > eaten in moderation with a meal. I am the poster child of insulin
> > resistance - very small with long skinny legs, no butt but all my

weight

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is
> > carried in the middle. I remember going to the store to pick up cat
food
> > knowing that in spite of my best intentions, I would walk out with a
soda.
> > It wasn't until I seriously dealt with my eating that I was able to

pass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> > soda and candy bars up without regret.
> >
> > There is a magic bullet for insulin resistance, though. It is so

simple

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > that I could be the hostess of an infomercial. Instead of expensive
shakes
> > and radical diets, all one really has to do is exercise. Studies

show

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that
> > the body can use insulin much more efficiently for 24 to 48 hours

after

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an
> > hour of moderate exercise. Also, resistance training improves
sensitivity
> > to the muscles used in the resistance training. Keeping this in

mind, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try
> > to exercise for an hour each day. Instead of running flat out for

20 or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30
> > minutes, I walk briskly for 45 minutes or an hour and follow up with
> > resistance training. It doesn't take much. I am not graceful. I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a
> > bench and a few free weights and I just do it!
> >
> > There is also research that shows that metformin can improve insulin
> > resistance. I am reluctant to try this as long as I can exercise

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat an
> > appropriate diet. If I couldn't exercise or if my food choices were
> > severely restricted, I would try this.
> > >
> > > > In addition, it offers a whole host of other
> > > > health benefits like reduced bloodpressure
> > >
> > > That happens from losing weight.
> >
> > It also happens with Atkins as diuresis is quite dramatic in the

first

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > weeks;
>
> Yes.
>
> > moreso than on a reduced calorie diet. This is one reason why I do
> > not like to see heart patients on Atkins. Along with the fluid,

goes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > potassium and many heart patients have rhythm problems or are

maintained

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on
> > lasix. I have been challenged numerous times from low carb

proponents

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who
> > state that OTC K+ supplements are harmless. I am of the rather

narrow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > opinion that potassium supplementation should never be self

supervised

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > without lab work, etc. I have attended far too many codes for

patients

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with
> > medically supervised potassium supplementation to believe that one
should
> > try this on their own.
> > >
> > > > and lower triglcerides.
> > >
> > > This also happens largely from losing weight.
> > >
> > > Without carbohydrates, there will be hyperketonemia. This is not

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good
> > > thing physiologically.
> >
> > It is especially dangerous for heart patients and being that this is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > cardiology group, I thought I might make a note of that.
> >
>
> Correct.
>
> >
> > > > If
> > > > you are interested in how this works, I'd recommend the book
"Protein
> > > > Power" by Michael and Mary Eades to you.
> >
> > I've read the book - found it fascinating. It makes many good

points

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and is
> > not as strict as Atkins. It is also very hard to follow though in

real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > life. I also like the Zone diet plan but being mathematically
challenged,
> > it is hard for me to figure out all the ratios. Why can't someone

put

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > together a plan that just says eat carbs with protien and watch

calories

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and
> > exercise? Is it too simple?
> >
>
> See http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Read that, too🙂 Aren't I the well read one? Good points made but I

find,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that for me personally, it's almost too simple. Plus, some things I

like to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat are decidedly heavy such as apples and fat free yogurt. That alone
would kill 1/4 of my food each day. And I am not one to weight sauces,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why are you fighting for every morsel of food?

Because I live in a culture where food is a central point of social
activity. Since giving up refined sugars and carbs, it is easier but, I am
a really good cook and I enjoy eating.

The latter will make "eating less" more difficult.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, I really do believe, at
least where I am concerned, that exercise as an adjunct to moderately
lowered calories is far more beneficial than restriction in calories.

If you eat excessive amounts, the exercise is not going to help you either reach
or maintain ideal body weight. God forbid you have an injury or other reasons
that keep you from exercising.

Quoted message said:

I
like the way I feel after exercising.

No one is suggesting that you stop exercising.

Quoted message said:

But, burning off 500 calories when
restricting calories is challenging..

Burning off 500 calories is challenging whether you are reducing intake or not.

Quoted message said:

For instance, I can easily lose
weight eating 1200 calories a day. If I eat 1200 calories a day and burn off
500 calories a day, it leaves me with a net of 700. If I didn't experience
hunger or irritability, this would be fine. I find that if I adjust my
calories to 1200 plus the estimated amount I burn off, I do better.

For me, eating smaller amounts of really good food is far more preferable to
over eating trash!

Why overeat anything?

Quoted message said:

When I am unable to feed myself well, I go for a protien
shake or another low-cal alternative and 'save' my calories for when I can
sit down and enjoy really good food. Note that for me really good food is 4
oz of a good steak, maybe a salad (depending on the dressing and the
presence of radical veggies) and some wine. In addition to the weight loss
and health benefits, it is notable that I feel better after eating a smaller
amount of really good food. I have never been to a restuarant that served 4
oz of steak and thus, my morning after omelettes are great!

This all may be moot if you are not overweight. Are you?

Quoted message said:

Alas, I cannot eat seafood which brings me to another question that you may
be able to answer. I am severly allergic to shellfish and get ill when I
eat fresh water fish. Note that I live in South Louisiana which is mostly
below sea level. Most of our water is at least 'brackish'. My question is
if I take supplements (EPA, etc.) will I be in danger of doing the
anaphylaxis dance?

It depends on what you are actually allergic to.

Quoted message said:

I do so hate it. It wears me out for days🙂

You might consider visiting an allergist to help you find out exactly what you
are allergic to.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne wrote:

<Snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why are you fighting for every morsel of food?

Because I live in a culture where food is a central point of social
activity. Since giving up refined sugars and carbs, it is easier but, I

am

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a really good cook and I enjoy eating.

The latter will make "eating less" more difficult.

Yes, but not impossible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, I really do believe, at
least where I am concerned, that exercise as an adjunct to moderately
lowered calories is far more beneficial than restriction in calories.

If you eat excessive amounts, the exercise is not going to help you either

reach

Quoted message said:

or maintain ideal body weight. God forbid you have an injury or other

reasons

Quoted message said:

that keep you from exercising.

That actually happened several years ago. It was not fun. Injuries are not
fun and not always preventable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I
like the way I feel after exercising.

No one is suggesting that you stop exercising.

Quoted message said:

But, burning off 500 calories when
restricting calories is challenging..

Burning off 500 calories is challenging whether you are reducing intake or

not.

Quoted message said:

Yes, my point is that it is much easier to make a modest restriction in
calories (particularly nutritionally deviod calories) in addition to
exercise is easier for me than to cut my calories by an additional 500 a
day.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For instance, I can easily lose
weight eating 1200 calories a day. If I eat 1200 calories a day and burn

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

500 calories a day, it leaves me with a net of 700. If I didn't

experience

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hunger or irritability, this would be fine. I find that if I adjust my
calories to 1200 plus the estimated amount I burn off, I do better.

For me, eating smaller amounts of really good food is far more

preferable to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over eating trash!

Why overeat anything?

I generally do not. When I do, I look to see what precipitated it. First,
if there are limited food choices, I will put off eating until I am very
hungry. This happens when I travel. I do not like meal bars, etc. I am a
picky eater, as well and hate those chemically engineered salad dressings
found at resturaunts. If it is my only choice and I eat it before I am
hungry, I do fine. Frequently, I put off eating something I don't like. I
am learning to eat before I am ravenous when I still have will power.

If I eat while I am doing something else, I lose track of what I am eating.
This happens when I am reveiwing clinical records, etc. at an office and
lunch has been brought in. I have learned that I am rarely so very busy
that I cannot take a few minutes to eat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I am unable to feed myself well, I go for a protien
shake or another low-cal alternative and 'save' my calories for when I

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sit down and enjoy really good food. Note that for me really good food

is 4

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

oz of a good steak, maybe a salad (depending on the dressing and the
presence of radical veggies) and some wine. In addition to the weight

loss

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and health benefits, it is notable that I feel better after eating a

smaller

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

amount of really good food. I have never been to a restuarant that

served 4

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

oz of steak and thus, my morning after omelettes are great!

This all may be moot if you are not overweight. Are you?

Not to any great degree. My BMI is well below the 'overweight' category. I
would love to lose ten pounds for reasons of vanity but alas, I am not quite
vain enough🙂 But, any extra ounce of weight I carry is in my midsection.
A couple of years ago, my waist was 36 inches. I try to keep it under 32
inches. Part of that is that I simply thick waisted - when I was very, very
thin as younger woman, it would stay between 28 and 30. Part of it is also
because that is where I store all my excess weight. I have absolutely no
desire to be diabetic or suffer from heart disease, etc. Some things, such
a genetics cannot be changed but others can be addressed through a healthy
lifestyle. It is certainly more pleasant than addressing high bp through
medications or fluctuating sugars with insulin, etc. Everything else aside,
I am a self employed single mother and investment in my health will keep
groceries on the table.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alas, I cannot eat seafood which brings me to another question that you

may

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to answer. I am severly allergic to shellfish and get ill when

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat fresh water fish. Note that I live in South Louisiana which is

mostly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

below sea level. Most of our water is at least 'brackish'. My question

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if I take supplements (EPA, etc.) will I be in danger of doing the
anaphylaxis dance?

It depends on what you are actually allergic to.

Quoted message said:

I do so hate it. It wears me out for days🙂

You might consider visiting an allergist to help you find out exactly what

you

Quoted message said:

are allergic to.

I have considered it - will do it eventually. Last summer, we were playing
tennis and went to a convenience store to buy beer (don't go there) after a
long match. They were boiling crawfish indoors and I just about went into
anaphylaxis. That was no fun after two hours on the court! I have a little
aspirin thing, too so a trip to the allergist is in my near future. I was
just wondering if the oils were purified enough to remove all iodine and
other fishy essence.

Thanks.

j

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Blue Mu_n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> One thing to consider is that Atkins
>has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30

Quoted message said:

>years?

Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
of his patient population.

Care to cite references?

If the late Dr. Atkins' refused to participate in such studies, one would
expect that there would be no references to be found.

Were are the references that state he refused to participate in studies?

Good summary from one of your references:

"CONCLUSIONS: There is insufficient evidence to make recommendations for or
against the use of low-carbohydrate diets, particularly among participants
older than age 50 years, for use longer than 90 days, or for diets of 20 g/d
or less of carbohydrates."

NOTE: the conclusions state OR AGAINST .......

Where is the evidence for or against your TPD? Has the medical community
accepted and endorsed it?

Quoted message said:

A good review article on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/q404

A good reference list:

http://tinyurl.com/q401

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Julianne said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Julianne wrote:

<Snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why are you fighting for every morsel of food?

Because I live in a culture where food is a central point of social
activity. Since giving up refined sugars and carbs, it is easier but, I

am

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a really good cook and I enjoy eating.

The latter will make "eating less" more difficult.

Yes, but not impossible.

It defines the struggle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, I really do believe, at
least where I am concerned, that exercise as an adjunct to moderately
lowered calories is far more beneficial than restriction in calories.

If you eat excessive amounts, the exercise is not going to help you either

reach

Quoted message said:

or maintain ideal body weight. God forbid you have an injury or other

reasons

Quoted message said:

that keep you from exercising.

That actually happened several years ago. It was not fun. Injuries are not
fun and not always preventable.

Injuries and related other things will invariably happen.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I
like the way I feel after exercising.

No one is suggesting that you stop exercising.

Quoted message said:

But, burning off 500 calories when
restricting calories is challenging..

Burning off 500 calories is challenging whether you are reducing intake or

not.

Quoted message said:

Yes, my point is that it is much easier to make a modest restriction in
calories (particularly nutritionally deviod calories) in addition to
exercise is easier for me than to cut my calories by an additional 500 a
day.

Yes, if you are tracking calories instead of food weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For instance, I can easily lose
weight eating 1200 calories a day. If I eat 1200 calories a day and burn

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

500 calories a day, it leaves me with a net of 700. If I didn't

experience

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hunger or irritability, this would be fine. I find that if I adjust my
calories to 1200 plus the estimated amount I burn off, I do better.

For me, eating smaller amounts of really good food is far more

preferable to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over eating trash!

Why overeat anything?

I generally do not. When I do, I look to see what precipitated it. First,
if there are limited food choices, I will put off eating until I am very
hungry.

This is not advisable.

Quoted message said:

This happens when I travel. I do not like meal bars, etc. I am a
picky eater, as well and hate those chemically engineered salad dressings
found at resturaunts. If it is my only choice and I eat it before I am
hungry, I do fine. Frequently, I put off eating something I don't like. I
am learning to eat before I am ravenous when I still have will power.

You seem bonded to eating only things that "taste good."

Quoted message said:

If I eat while I am doing something else, I lose track of what I am eating.

It is hard to track calories.

Quoted message said:

This happens when I am reveiwing clinical records, etc. at an office and
lunch has been brought in. I have learned that I am rarely so very busy
that I cannot take a few minutes to eat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I am unable to feed myself well, I go for a protien
shake or another low-cal alternative and 'save' my calories for when I

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sit down and enjoy really good food. Note that for me really good food

is 4

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

oz of a good steak, maybe a salad (depending on the dressing and the
presence of radical veggies) and some wine. In addition to the weight

loss

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and health benefits, it is notable that I feel better after eating a

smaller

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

amount of really good food. I have never been to a restuarant that

served 4

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

oz of steak and thus, my morning after omelettes are great!

This all may be moot if you are not overweight. Are you?

Not to any great degree. My BMI is well below the 'overweight' category. I
would love to lose ten pounds for reasons of vanity but alas, I am not quite
vain enough🙂 But, any extra ounce of weight I carry is in my midsection.

Not good.

Quoted message said:

A couple of years ago, my waist was 36 inches.

Too many inches.

Quoted message said:

I try to keep it under 32
inches. Part of that is that I simply thick waisted - when I was very, very
thin as younger woman, it would stay between 28 and 30.

That's fine.

Quoted message said:

Part of it is also
because that is where I store all my excess weight. I have absolutely no
desire to be diabetic or suffer from heart disease, etc. Some things, such
a genetics cannot be changed but others can be addressed through a healthy
lifestyle. It is certainly more pleasant than addressing high bp through
medications or fluctuating sugars with insulin, etc. Everything else aside,
I am a self employed single mother and investment in my health will keep
groceries on the table.

Understandable. Following the 2PD approach is easier than you think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alas, I cannot eat seafood which brings me to another question that you

may

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to answer. I am severly allergic to shellfish and get ill when

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat fresh water fish. Note that I live in South Louisiana which is

mostly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

below sea level. Most of our water is at least 'brackish'. My question

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if I take supplements (EPA, etc.) will I be in danger of doing the
anaphylaxis dance?

It depends on what you are actually allergic to.

Quoted message said:

I do so hate it. It wears me out for days🙂

You might consider visiting an allergist to help you find out exactly what

you

Quoted message said:

are allergic to.

I have considered it - will do it eventually. Last summer, we were playing
tennis and went to a convenience store to buy beer (don't go there) after a
long match. They were boiling crawfish indoors and I just about went into
anaphylaxis. That was no fun after two hours on the court! I have a little
aspirin thing, too so a trip to the allergist is in my near future. I was
just wondering if the oils were purified enough to remove all iodine and
other fishy essence.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Merlano said:

MD/PhD said:

Joe Smigiel wrote:

> I had a heart attack June 9th, 3xCABG on June 13th, and am feeling
> pretty good now. I'm 49 and male with a history of CAD in my family
> (older brother 5xCABG, father 3XCABG, paternal uncles all with MIs,
> CAD). I went through a hospital cardiac rehab regimen in about 4

weeks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> time this summer and have increased my exercise rate about 25-30%

since

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> graduating from the program.
>
> My cardiologist has me on Lipitor 10mg/day as well as metaprolol,
> Altace, aspirin, and a daily multivitamin. The last time checked &
> several years before the heart attack my cholesterol was 202. Last
> month it was 116 with the hdl/ldl ratio about 3.5.

You probably mean LDL/HDL ratio.

> Yesterday I had
> another blood test and the total cholesterol was less than 100, hdl @
> 27. (Glucose 88, BP 90/58 which was low, usually around 100/70.)
>

Your HDL needs to be higher. More exercise should help that.

>
> Since surgery I've done some lifestyle changes including quitting
> smoking (was 1 1/2 packs per day for 32 years),

Good.

> continuing to exercise
> 5-6 times per week

This needs to be aerobic for at least 30 minutes daily preferably

before

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

supper.

> and I have changed my diet considerably. I'm eating
> oats instead of eggs for breakfast, probably have one meal with lean
> meat daily (usually chicken or lean pork) and try to do a vegetarian
> meal per day. I've switched to mostly non- or low-fat, low-salt

foods

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and am doing more fruits, veggies, fish and nuts, olive oil. etc.,

and I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> haven't had a cup of regular coffee since the cardiac event. I'm

still

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> about a 20 pounds overweight (although not obese) even with the
> increased exercise and diet changes. I've been trying to shed the

extra

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> weight since April but have only lost about 8 pounds total. (I

figure

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the exclusion of nicotine and caffeine have probably affected my
> metabolic rate

This does more to increase appetite than to lower metabolic rate.

> and helped prevent some weight loss. I could do fewer
> carbs...)

Carbs don't cause obesity.

Doesn't eating refined carbs contribute to gaining weight?

John Merlano

No.

So, you are advocating a 2-pound twinkie diet?

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Blue Mu_n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:29:21 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> > One thing to consider is that Atkins
> >has been around for over 30 years. Why has there not been more data

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30
> >years?
>
> Atkins refused to participate in any data collections and any studies
> of his patient population.

Care to cite references?

If the late Dr. Atkins' refused to participate in such studies, one would
expect that there would be no references to be found.

Were are the references that state he refused to participate in studies?

Good summary from one of your references:

"CONCLUSIONS: There is insufficient evidence to make recommendations for or
against the use of low-carbohydrate diets, particularly among participants
older than age 50 years, for use longer than 90 days, or for diets of 20 g/d
or less of carbohydrates."

NOTE: the conclusions state OR AGAINST .......

Ok, one neutral in a sea of negatives. No positives.

Quoted message said:

Where is the evidence for or against your TPD? Has the medical community
accepted and endorsed it?

No negatives. In time, the 2PD approach will likely be proven.

For past discussions about this, either use Google or go to:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A good review article on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/q404

A good reference list:

http://tinyurl.com/q401

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Sharon Hope said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Merlano wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Carbs don't cause obesity.

Doesn't eating refined carbs contribute to gaining weight?

John Merlano

No.

So, you are advocating a 2-pound twinkie diet?

What I am advocating is well described at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/