Winter Duatholon-strength and FTP

[frost]

That's what I am doing. I am going 2 days a week (now in week 3 or 4). I was trying to do everything in one session with minimal rest periods, but I like to lift for no more than 45-50min and it was dragging out to about 75min, so I took some time and devised a plan that lets me hit everything pretty well in 2 distinct workouts aptly named #1 and #2. I tried it this week for the first time and it felt great and came in at under an hour! Perfect.

Does it mean that you do each muscle group once a week? That is probably a good option for maintenance in combination with cycling but I think that also in lifting the frequency of the impulse is the key to improvement. Of course warm up and simply logistics take time for a whole body workout and it is really challenging to push it under hour but I'd drop sets and increase number of sessions per week for a muscle group.

 

[Meek One]

Does it mean that you do each muscle group once a week? That is probably a good option for maintenance in combination with cycling but I think that also in lifting the frequency of the impulse is the key to improvement. Of course warm up and simply logistics take time for a whole body workout and it is really challenging to push it under hour but I'd drop sets and increase number of sessions per week for a muscle group.

I'd like to think of it as 1.5 times a week e.g. triceps get hit when working chest on day 1 and then again by themselves on day 2, legs get hit on their own day and by the DL's etc...

Here is Day 1 and 2:

Day 1:
DL
Chest (hit Soleus in between sets)
Bi's
Delts (they need the most work)
Abs

Day 2
Legs
Back (hit Gastroc's in between sets)
Tri's
Delts (different exercises than day 1)
Abs

I usually hit largest muscles first. I know I could do delts earlier to 'target'them better, but the twice a week stimulus should work plus they are warmed up nicely by the chest and back work. Large groups are getting 6-8 total sets and smaller 3-6 total sets.

 

[Felt_Rider]

As in cycling also in weightlifting there are numerous ways to skin the cat

That's is a very valid point that should not be forgotten!!

There are many ways to skin the cat in weight training. I have seen a lot of world class lifter train successfully in many styles, schedules and programs.

For many years I trained a certain way much like it was a job and though it was something I enjoyed I did not realize how much enjoyment you can lose by becoming extremely dedicated to winning. After I quit competing in bodybuilding weightlifting became very enjoyable again. If I had to list my current training passions weightlifting still exceeds cycling a bit. I kind of hope it stays that way because I am finding that I am getting more absorbed in training with a power meter almost like someone who competes. I don't want to wreck the new passion that I have for cycling.

For now I am enjoying the payoff effort training with a power meter. My riding friends are starting to see the little yellow computer on my bar is not just a poser item. When it is my turn to pull I can hear complaints behind me.

I am getting a lot of questions from group members lately about my indoor training during the week.

 

[jsirabella]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I actually had a good session on the CT today. Not in terms of numbers but in terms of muscle strain. I think may be on the right track.

-js

Thanks and about your other thread on pain. I hope you have a fast recovery. Those types of things happen to all of us at some point or another.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I actually had a good session on the CT today. Not in terms of numbers but in terms of muscle strain. I think may be on the right track.

-js

Tough leg day for me this morning.

As one would figure I had planned this morning as a camera event for the whole transparency thing and shot some embarassing short video clips .

I had hoped to get some clips squatting and leg pressing some descent weight, but my legs were wiped out from two very good days of cycling this weekend. I took an Ibuprofen and headed off to the gym at 5 am, but on the first set of squats my upper left quad had the sensation that it was going to tear and with you and kopride having recent strains I took the better discretion. Looking back at my form while warming up with 185 I can see that I was compensating a little so I am glad I bailed after the 3rd rep.

No good clips today.
I had hope to get something before I lose too much weight to squat anything significant as I am moving deeper into the cycling training. I expect my leg training day is going to suffer from this point forward until the fall. With my cycling goal on May 2nd, I couldn't afford to risk a tear/strain at this moment and potentially have up to 6 weeks off the bike for recovery.


Glad to hear that you can put in some time on the CT.

 

[jsirabella]

Sorry to hear about the small setback but it is only that a setback. It makes it that much sweeter when you do it. Also given your focus on the performing well n the bike I feel you will probably see some losses on the other side.

Actually the last three days of working out have been my best in a while. I feel sore but it is getting back to a good sore and did my first 220 watt interval for 20 minutes in like ages. I wanted to really test the leg and feel we are definitely getting there. i did change up my diet/supps a bit and strange but starting to feel like heading in the right direction.

Tomorrow is the real test as it is the off day so lets see what the legs feel like.

-js

Tough leg day for me this morning.

As one would figure I had planned this morning as a camera event for the whole transparency thing and shot some embarassing short video clips .

I had hoped to get some clips squatting and leg pressing some descent weight, but my legs were wiped out from two very good days of cycling this weekend. I took an Ibuprofen and headed off to the gym at 5 am, but on the first set of squats my upper left quad had the sensation that it was going to tear and with you and kopride having recent strains I took the better discretion. Looking back at my form while warming up with 185 I can see that I was compensating a little so I am glad I bailed after the 3rd rep.

No good clips today.
I had hope to get something before I lose too much weight to squat anything significant as I am moving deeper into the cycling training. I expect my leg training day is going to suffer from this point forward until the fall. With my cycling goal on May 2nd, I couldn't afford to risk a tear/strain at this moment and potentially have up to 6 weeks off the bike for recovery.


Glad to hear that you can put in some time on the CT.

 

[frost]

Ugh, I did the first L5 workout since last September. It was at least as hard as I could remember

. On the other hand, once I got warm (I didn't probably warm up enough) in 3rd interval it wasn't really killing and recovery was very good. 6x5min @ 362, 363, 364, 364, 363 and 365w and I think I still had some on the tank.

It was more than I expected and the positive side is that quite obviously my FTP is going up (NP for 55min was 315w) and based on HR response I was not even close to recovered from last week. My Max HR from last summer is ~188 and now I simply couldn't get over 174. Tomorrow is a business trip and a looong day at work but hopefully I can get a good sleep and recover more so that thursday is a 20min test day!

 

[kopride]

Alright. Time to get serious. I just spent three weeks living in a motel trying a case miles from home. Other than a few half baked workouts in a local gym and a few weekend rides on my trainer, February so far has been a bust for me. The trial was fun and involved some interesting fire experts, but living on and keeping late hours is not conducive to good workouts.

Tonite, I will have to see what my 2 x 20s will look like. The back is completely healed and my older son is training for the shot put in the spring so I should see some gains on the DL, provided we can squeeze some workouts in together.

As an aside, my son's computer where I keep my data is completely screwed up from that worm that was going around. I have run that microsoft program to clean it up but it still seems like it is running multiple .exe files in multiple loops so that it is so slow that it is useless. Anybody effectively fix this issue. My guess is that my kid is surfing web sites that he has no business surfing. What these kids are pulling off the web is a far cry than finding that stash of Playboys under grandad's bed. I am reluctant to flash drive the data onto my work computer and infect any other computer.

Good luck to all who are on this quest.

 

[jsirabella]

Hey Good to have you back! And Glad to hear you are feeling well.

-js

Alright. Time to get serious. I just spent three weeks living in a motel trying a case miles from home. Other than a few half baked workouts in a local gym and a few weekend rides on my trainer, February so far has been a bust for me. The trial was fun and involved some interesting fire experts, but living on and keeping late hours is not conducive to good workouts.

Tonite, I will have to see what my 2 x 20s will look like. The back is completely healed and my older son is training for the shot put in the spring so I should see some gains on the DL, provided we can squeeze some workouts in together.

As an aside, my son's computer where I keep my data is completely screwed up from that worm that was going around. I have run that microsoft program to clean it up but it still seems like it is running multiple .exe files in multiple loops so that it is so slow that it is useless. Anybody effectively fix this issue. My guess is that my kid is surfing web sites that he has no business surfing. What these kids are pulling off the web is a far cry than finding that stash of Playboys under grandad's bed. I am reluctant to flash drive the data onto my work computer and infect any other computer.

Good luck to all who are on this quest.

 

[Meek One]

Did the 300 DL today.

Been sick now for about a month and have only ridden a handful of times so the 300 ftp will still be a while off

I know Tony and Frost can already achieve the 300/300, but hopefully I'll be there by summer.

 

[frost]

Congratulations for 300 Meek!

Still haven't been to the gym, but today was a pretty good workout on a trainer, even I had a long day at work and TSB hasn't been positive since december but mostly hovering in between -10 and -20. It wasn't all out so I expect with some rest on a good day FTP could be in 330 level, which would be 10w down last summer best but on the other hand about 60w more than end of March last year!

I've been doing some nordic skate sking last couple of weeks which has been nice variation to almost daily trainer grinding. I am so very bad at sking so it has also been really hard workouts just to keep going

.

 

[Meek One]

Congratulations for 300 Meek!

Kiitos.

I can't wait until I have a graph like yours! Wow.

I think I am loving the roid effect (muscle memory) in the gym a little too much.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Kiitos.

I can't wait until I have a graph like yours! Wow.

I think I am loving the roid effect (muscle memory) in the gym a little too much.

.......meanwhile, in my world I feel like I am on the decline for strength, but on the increase for cycling performance.

My lean mass is holding pretty good while I have lost about 6 pounds and my skin is thinning out. My strength on all lifts are struggling lately and for some reason my shoulder is feeling uncomfortable lately in some of those upper body movements. The same shoulder I separated in 2007 in a bad cycling accident. I thought I was on a a good trend of rehab, but I struggled yesterday to bench 135. The shoulder joint felt very unstable on each lift.

Training legs for strength is very difficult for me now. Because of this I am training with lighter weight and less rest between sets. My legs are just too tired from all of the work for cycling. Which, goes back to the ongoing debate of trying to do both at the same time. For my genetics, I find the general rule specificity come into play and that there is simply not enough recovery time to do both successfully. Since my concentration is cycling now that is progressing and strength is declining.

On a positive note for me I received a note from a good friend of mine that is an IFBB professional bodybuilder and was told by the friend that their training has changed a bit to using lighter weight, less rest between sets and more volume. I find that my switch to using lighter weight has not impacted my lean mass as much as I was concerned. I have been training lighter for a few years now compared to my former competitive days.

So like jsirabella once said I am fine fitting into being a "cross fit" type of person. Not real good at cycling. Not real good at lifting. But somewhere in a comfortable middle ground of being a bit better than the average fitness geek.

 

[Meek One]

So like jsirabella once said I am fine fitting into being a "cross fit" type of person. Not real good at cycling. Not real good at lifting. But somewhere in a comfortable middle ground of being a bit better than the average fitness geek.

At least in my mind I think that qualifies you, me, jsirabella, frost, tonyz, etc as true athletes (not some niche specialists) in the yesteryear sense of 'athlete'. That we have both the strength and cardio development to be able to compete successfully in a variety of sports. For example if I choose to golf I can hit 300+ drives, if I choose to play ball I will have stamina enough to play full court yet enough strength and explosion to still dunk, if I want to go run, I can. Or non-sport related I can help people move furniture without fear of injury. And as a bonus I still will look good in everyday clothes. Since a lot of us are getting older we know whether we like it or not that we aren't going to go 'pro' anymore, but we can still get better everyday since we now have the knowledge to train smarter and hopefully continue to make gains for the rest of our time on this earth.

 

[jsirabella]

Nice...very nice! You got the watts down! That skiing must be doing something really good for you.

It would seem that you are the first in our whacky challenge to post above a 300 watt FTP. How many years have you been training now using watts?

Frost you may be well on your way to finishing this up real soon.

-js

Congratulations for 300 Meek!

Still haven't been to the gym, but today was a pretty good workout on a trainer, even I had a long day at work and TSB hasn't been positive since december but mostly hovering in between -10 and -20. It wasn't all out so I expect with some rest on a good day FTP could be in 330 level, which would be 10w down last summer best but on the other hand about 60w more than end of March last year!

I've been doing some nordic skate sking last couple of weeks which has been nice variation to almost daily trainer grinding. I am so very bad at sking so it has also been really hard workouts just to keep going

.

 

[jsirabella]

.......meanwhile, in my world I feel like I am on the decline for strength, but on the increase for cycling performance.

well you had to expect the loss in strength now that you have moved your focus more towards cycling. But based upon your posts for your group rides, you are seeing some substantial gains. I went through the same strength losses and expect once I really focus on the cycling it will happen again. Right now I am enjoying the weights a bit too much like Meek. Also while about 70% recovery my left leg still need some more time.

So like jsirabella once said I am fine fitting into being a "cross fit" type of person. Not real good at cycling. Not real good at lifting. But somewhere in a comfortable middle ground of being a bit better than the average fitness geek.

Damn! I can be a bit too honest at times.. But as you ended the thought, I do believe we are more fit than most! I will reply to Meeks post as I believe a lot of great stuff there. But I think for you and the guys on this thread there is a great article I literally read a few minutes ago that you would love from Dave Draper (the blond bomber that was alway next to reg park and arnold but no one knew his name!). Here is the article...

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...interviews/an_interview_with_the_blond_bomber

But here is the quote...

"Don't compare yourself to the pros and want, or need, to be like them. Be open to inspiration — seek it, even — but train for yourself. Set realistic goals, but realize and train for the larger vision of training itself. There's far more to the daily workouts than muscle and might. You're developing character and health of the mind, emotions, and soul at once. There are no secrets, no shortcuts, but there's always the search for another good workout, another stimulating combination of food and exercise.

It's the basics — simple, but not easy. You've got to sensibly blast it. You must love your workouts, though you might hate them. A good workout isn't just an outline of exercises, sets, and reps. It's focus and form, pace and rhythm, exertion and feel, instincts and knowing. That all comes with time, practice, guts, and understanding.

In a word or two, never quit!

Or, you can just take a tank full of pharmaceuticals and avoid all the stuff I just said."

I really could not say it better! I believe it represents me and probably you and the others quite well!

-js

Today was a bike day and while no big number 3 x 20, 220 watts, I sweat and felt great after it. The leg is coming around. And while my back feels like it was hit with a bat because of yesterdays workout, I am looking forward to tomorrow!! I believe the shoulder pain you are feeling while makes no sense as it is upper body, as you go up with the watts, you will notice more discomfort in your upper body which will mean less weights unfortunately if you want to break those barriers...

 

[jsirabella]

Hard to comment...very true and very wise.

All the things you listed below are more important to me than the cycling itself. In other words the cycling is a means to an end not the end in and of itself.

So while it can sting at times (boy those numbers by rmur are amazing!) I can seek comfort in other things that you mention below.

At our age we have to have some perspective but not give up...I think my reply to felt and the quote from Dave Draper says it best.

-js

At least in my mind I think that qualifies you, me, jsirabella, frost, tonyz, etc as true athletes (not some niche specialists) in the yesteryear sense of 'athlete'. That we have both the strength and cardio development to be able to compete successfully in a variety of sports. For example if I choose to golf I can hit 300+ drives, if I choose to play ball I will have stamina enough to play full court yet enough strength and explosion to still dunk, if I want to go run, I can. Or non-sport related I can help people move furniture without fear of injury. And as a bonus I still will look good in everyday clothes. Since a lot of us are getting older we know whether we like it or not that we aren't going to go 'pro' anymore, but we can still get better everyday since we now have the knowledge to train smarter and hopefully continue to make gains for the rest of our time on this earth.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Thanks for the Draper interview link. I enjoyed reading about one of the originals BB's of the Arnold era.

 

[tonyzackery]

At least in my mind I think that qualifies you, me, jsirabella, frost, tonyz, etc as true athletes (not some niche specialists) in the yesteryear sense of 'athlete'. That we have both the strength and cardio development to be able to compete successfully in a variety of sports. For example if I choose to golf I can hit 300+ drives, if I choose to play ball I will have stamina enough to play full court yet enough strength and explosion to still dunk, if I want to go run, I can. Or non-sport related I can help people move furniture without fear of injury. And as a bonus I still will look good in everyday clothes. Since a lot of us are getting older we know whether we like it or not that we aren't going to go 'pro' anymore, but we can still get better everyday since we now have the knowledge to train smarter and hopefully continue to make gains for the rest of our time on this earth.

Thanks for the shout-out, Meek. Personally, I suffer from AOCD - Athletes Obessive Complusive Disorder . If I get involved in ANY athletic competitive activity I WILL do whatever (equipment, training, acquisition of knowledge and strategy, etc...) is necessary to become competent at it. Not gonna go too far into my disorder, but to illustrate: I own 27(!) bowling balls (carried a 210 league average), 6 ping pong paddles, 8 sets of darts, and now own 4 and 3/4 bicycles (track, TT, road race, crit, and 2 partially completed projects). I've already told my wife that I won't do golf out of deference to her...I will carry my untreated "disorder" to my grave .

 

[frost]

Thanks for the shout-out, Meek. Personally, I suffer from AOCD - Athletes Obessive Complusive Disorder . If I get involved in ANY athletic competitive activity I WILL do whatever (equipment, training, acquisition of knowledge and strategy, etc...) is necessary to become competent at it. Not gonna go too far into my disorder, but to illustrate: I own 27(!) bowling balls (carried a 210 league average), 6 ping pong paddles, 8 sets of darts, and now own 4 and 3/4 bicycles (track, TT, road race, crit, and 2 partially completed projects). I've already told my wife that I won't do golf out of deference to her...I will carry my untreated "disorder" to my grave .

Oh, I didn't know there is a name for it,but it's excellent because now I know my diagnose