You shouldn't be there! - Long

[Ekul Namsob]

Nick Kew <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 May 2007 11:29:44 +0100
> "Steve Watkin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
> > > plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
> > > pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.

> > Illegal to pass a queue of stationary or slow moving traffic??
> > I thought it was OK to do this.
>
> Yep. Long ago when I did motorcycle training[1], this was part of
> that training. And you'd fail the test (for failing to make
> reasonable progress) if you didn't.
>
> But we don't have sufficient context here. In some circumstances
> it's right; in others it's stupid and dangerous.

I, similarly, thought it was legal until the copper told me otherwise.
At the age of 14 I wasn't going to argue. The line of traffic was
stationary on a wide two-lane stretch of Eastwood Road North in
Leigh-on-Sea by the park. This stretch of road has now been repainted to
allow for one lane of parked cars and two of traffic.

Stupid and dangerous are two words that I would not use to describe the
manoeuvre.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

 

[Ekul Namsob]

John Hearns <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tony B wrote:

> > As for proving ownership, well... (looks round house) I'd be hard
> > pressed to show proof of ownership of nearly ALL my stuff. Even the kids...

> I THINK the way it works is the notion of "title" - I have no legal
> knowledge.
> I had a bicked nicked from the supermarket once (Trek 820). Filled in a
> theft report that day. A few weeks later I was contacted by a police
> sergeant, and asked for a description of the bike, and any
> distinguishing features (one for instance I gave was the brand of tyres).

I would have thought the frame number would be a useful identifying
mark. Consequently, I keep a record of frame numbers, serial numbers,
etc of valuable items in a spreadsheet on Google docs. It also helps to
keep track of who insures what (what would I otherwise do if someone
stole my box of insurance documents?) and how much insurance I need.

I used to keep the list on my laptop but then realised that it wouldn't
be very useful if the laptop were stolen.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

 

[Ekul Namsob]

Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:

> Adam Lea wrote on 07/05/2007 12:17 +0100:

> > I was wondering - if faced with such a situation and the officer did issue a
> > charge as well as contesting it in court would you have the right to obtain
> > the officers identity and then make a formal complaint?

Doesn't one always have the right to obtain the officer's identity? As I
understand it, they wear their identity on their shoulders.

> If faced with such a situation I suspect I may take Sniper's line and
> encourage them to charge me. At least then the stupidity will become
> very apparent as in the Daniel Cadden case and a few high profile
> embarrassments can only help encouragé les autres

Pardon, m'sieur... encourager les autres.

Salut,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

 

[Tony Raven]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote on 07/05/2007 16:10 +0100:
>
> Whilst it is now unacceptable to display prejudice against ethnic
> minorities, it is considered acceptable to do so against cyclists.
>
> As I said, bike is the new Black...
>

And there's me thinking that was a fashion statement ;-)

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

 

[dkahn400]

On May 7, 12:34 pm, Tony B <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's fine, you don't have to - we don't live in the sort of country
> where some ID nazi can stop you and shout "Papers!Papers!" before
> hauling you off to the big house. Not yet, anyway...

Enjoy it while it lasts.

> As for proving ownership, well... (looks round house) I'd be hard
> pressed to show proof of ownership of nearly ALL my stuff.
> Even the kids...

I'd just produce the school bills. I must have paid for them many
times over.

--
Dave...

 

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <[email protected]>,
Helen Deborah Vecht <[email protected]> writes:
|>
|> I think police represent society's attitudes in general.
|> There is a substantial anti-cyclist culture in Britain, reflected by
|> some anti-cyclist plod.
|>
|> Whilst it is now unacceptable to display prejudice against ethnic
|> minorities, it is considered acceptable to do so against cyclists.

Which is why I now drive to work :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[Tim]

> Young Plod - "You shouldn't be in the outside lane you should turn right
> from the nearside kerb"

Is the point I think I would have lost it a bit!
Thanks for the story

Tim
--
http://www.timdenning.myby.co.uk/

 

[Martin Dann]

permajeo wrote:
> The Police are mostly pro law not anti-cyclist. It's just that like in
> every walk of life the young ones are often somewhat enthusiastic and
> filled with self importance with new power.

I think many people, including the police do not know what the laws says
(or does not say) about cycling. The new HC will just make this worse.

Martin.

 

[Martin Dann]

Ekul Namsob wrote:

> I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
> plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
> pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.

What about all those cars that rocket past me, then brake to a halt as I
am freewheeling up to a set of red traffic lights, or don't they count.

Martin.

 

[Tosspot]

Steve Watkin wrote:
> I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
>
>>plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
>>pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.
>
>
>
>
> Illegal to pass a queue of stationary or slow moving traffic??
> I thought it was OK to do this.

The motorbike test (and I believe in law as well) is "When it is safe to
do so", which is invariably translated as, "If you crash it wasn't".

So be careful when it's slow moving rather than stationary, as the
numpties go spazzie and change lanes violently without indicating.

 

[M-gineering]

Tosspot wrote:

>
> The motorbike test (and I believe in law as well) is "When it is safe to
> do so", which is invariably translated as, "If you crash it wasn't".
>
> So be careful when it's slow moving rather than stationary, as the
> numpties go spazzie and change lanes violently without indicating.

Er.... isn't that what you're supposed to do when the pacecar is out?
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

 

[Roger Merriman]

Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
>
> > I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
> > plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
> > pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.
>
> What about all those cars that rocket past me, then brake to a halt as I
> am freewheeling up to a set of red traffic lights, or don't they count.
>
> Martin.

indeed they they do there best to push you into the gutter don't they.
buses are the ones who seem to get the closest or at least the most
unneaving.

roger

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <1hxrdtd.1hktdk91viyholN%[email protected]>, Roger
Merriman
[email protected] says...
<snip>
> indeed they they do there best to push you into the gutter don't they.
> buses are the ones who seem to get the closest or at least the most
> unneaving.
>
Fortunately buses have nice flat smooth sides, so you can lean against
them and squeeze past with only a dirty mark on your shoulder to show
for it. Vans tend to have door handles and mirrors sticking out in
inconvenient places.

 

[Ekul Namsob]

Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ekul Namsob wrote:
> >
> > > I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
> > > plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
> > > pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.
> >
> > What about all those cars that rocket past me, then brake to a halt as I
> > am freewheeling up to a set of red traffic lights, or don't they count.

> indeed they they do there best to push you into the gutter don't they.
> buses are the ones who seem to get the closest or at least the most
> unneaving.

That's perhaps one of the advantages of Preston Bus's near monopoly on
the service round here: the drivers are almost invariably considerate of
vulnerable road users. I assume the lack of competition means they are
less worried about keeping to a strict timetable.

It's a pity they don't give change however. That, all too often, means
that the fragile economic balance tilts towards driving into town rather
than taking the bus. At present, cycling into town isn't an option most
of the time as my not-quite-four-year-old daughter and I are not yet
confident enough with the Trailgator to make the trip. Any advice on
that would be well appreciated, particularly around this bit:
<http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?q=&ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=1120047456
07520906437.0000011267ff84e340052&ll=53.760827,-2.691286&spn=0.005987,0.
013583&z=16&om=1>

Cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

 

[Roger Merriman]

Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <1hxrdtd.1hktdk91viyholN%[email protected]>, Roger
> Merriman
> [email protected] says...
> <snip>
> > indeed they they do there best to push you into the gutter don't they.
> > buses are the ones who seem to get the closest or at least the most
> > unneaving.
> >
> Fortunately buses have nice flat smooth sides, so you can lean against
> them and squeeze past with only a dirty mark on your shoulder to show
> for it. Vans tend to have door handles and mirrors sticking out in
> inconvenient places.

ah the bus was over taking me, i was't in the gutter, and doing mid 20's
so it chuged past very close.

roger

 

[Roger Merriman]

Ekul Namsob <[email protected]> wrote:

> Roger Merriman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Ekul Namsob wrote:
> > >
> > > > I had been filtering up through a line of stopped traffic when a lone
> > > > plod stopped me and made me wait for the line of stopped traffic to
> > > > pass. Apparently it's illegal to jump the queue.
> > >
> > > What about all those cars that rocket past me, then brake to a halt as I
> > > am freewheeling up to a set of red traffic lights, or don't they count.
>
> > indeed they they do there best to push you into the gutter don't they.
> > buses are the ones who seem to get the closest or at least the most
> > unneaving.
>
> That's perhaps one of the advantages of Preston Bus's near monopoly on
> the service round here: the drivers are almost invariably considerate of
> vulnerable road users. I assume the lack of competition means they are
> less worried about keeping to a strict timetable.
>
the trouble is the road is rather wide, though not quite two car wide,
else where don't have a problem as my postion forces them to either over
take or not.

> It's a pity they don't give change however. That, all too often, means
> that the fragile economic balance tilts towards driving into town rather
> than taking the bus. At present, cycling into town isn't an option most
> of the time as my not-quite-four-year-old daughter and I are not yet
> confident enough with the Trailgator to make the trip. Any advice on
> that would be well appreciated, particularly around this bit:
> <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?q=&ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=1120047456
> 07520906437.0000011267ff84e340052&ll=53.760827,-2.691286&spn=0.005987,0.
> 013583&z=16&om=1>
>
as the buses are forced into the same traffic ie no bus lane, or not
enought any way. i very rarely use bus, i tend to use car or bike.
locally and car for longer.

looks a big busy road yes i can see that it's going to itmidating to
father and daughter. maybe quieter routes in?

i'd of thought that traffic would keep a fairly clear of you? but i've
never used a tailgater nor likely too.

> Cheers,
> Luke

 

[_]

On Mon, 7 May 2007 23:03:16 +0100, Roger Merriman wrote:


> i'd of thought that traffic would keep a fairly clear of you? but i've
> never used a tailgater nor likely too.
>
>> Cheers,
>> Luke

Unless Carl Baxter has been let out...

 

[Roger Merriman]

_ <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 May 2007 23:03:16 +0100, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
>
> > i'd of thought that traffic would keep a fairly clear of you? but i've
> > never used a tailgater nor likely too.
> >
> >> Cheers,
> >> Luke
>
> Unless Carl Baxter has been let out...

two year jail term in 2003 so i would guess so. at least thats what
google says.

roger

 

[Tim Forcer]

On Mon, 07 May 2007 17:30, Martin Dann wrote:
>
> permajeo wrote:
>>
>> The Police are mostly pro law not anti-cyclist. It's just that like in
>> every walk of life the young ones are often somewhat enthusiastic and
>> filled with self importance with new power.
>
> I think many people, including the police do not know what the laws says
> (or does not say) about cycling. The new HC will just make this worse.

Be fair, there is so much law (and more every Parliamentary session)
that nobody can keep up with all of it. Interested cyclists will tend
to be expert in relevant road-use law, but perhaps not on (say) public
order, drugs, sex offences, evidence admissibility, etc, etc. Yet
police are expected to have all that expertise and to be up to date.
Of course, in an ideal world, they would all have the up-to-date
comprehensive knowledge, but it's not an ideal world, police forces
often don't have the resources to do all the updating training they
would like to provide, etc, etc. Therefore, coppers being human
beings, they pick up at least some of their "knowledge" from
inaccurate sources.

Still, at least one copper has now had the necessary ad-hoc training
on one aspect of road use law! And perhaps he will mention it to some
of his otherwise ill-informed mates?

As an aside, I think the story is a useful lesson in how to respond to
a police officer - I hope I've learned at least something too.

--
Tim Forcer [email protected]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions

 

[Tim Forcer]

On Mon, 7 May 2007 12:17 Adam Lea wrote:
>
> I was wondering - if faced with such a situation and the officer
> did issue a charge as well as contesting it in court would you
> have the right to obtain the officers identity and then make a
> formal complaint?

AIUI, an officer is obliged to tell you his official number (and, I
presume, the force so that the number identifies a unique individual).

--
Tim Forcer [email protected]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions