60th Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré - ProT

[thunder]

Look at the average speed. I think it was decisive that there were two climbs in it.

Valverde did not have great form during last years tdf. It had nothing to do with riding clean or not. He had a very bad time which caused a bad tour and not starting at the Vuelta for reasons I don't want to write publicly here.

yes, Piti died, and went off to the holy sepulchre with Tugboat.

In romantic fashion they bought a dual crypt for Fuentes alumni.

 

[thunder]

Valverde could always tt in Spain when the race was on the line.

See the uphill tts in the Vuelta when Nozal nearly won about 2004, and 2005.


He won an uphill tt in Pais Vasco, and might have had a result in Catalunya.



I think there is a general lack of knowledge (not referring to Crank) on the abilities of riders in tts, and the variables.

Most think it is a lab test.

This tt had 400 vertical metres of climbing between about km 5 and km 13. And a ver short rises elsewhere.

Valverde sucks in tts over 30km, long, flat, non-technical, part his threshold, part mental. It aint doping, cos god knows, he got the best of that.

So, this tt, where it had some climbs and cols to shake it up, and interrupt the rhythm, was perfect, he could attack the difficult parts, and then find a comfortable rhythm on the flatter sections, which were not too long. We know he has the power for short prologue efforts, so he could still power down on those flatter stretches.

So, lets reassess the ride. I saw the climbs, my immediate thought was, Brajkovic will win this if he is in form. Alas, he is either not doping, or not in form, and did not target this stage. I thought Levi would come second or win. Seeing the climb, I did not think he would win it.

Go back over the years, check out Valverde at the Vuelta, and Catalunya, and Pais Vasco, you will see many a result.

TTs are a different thing in the Tour when they are 50kms or longer. Most of the time is lost in the last 10 kms. That is where the pure chrono riders just get started, plus the dopers.

if everyone was 100% Evans would win this tt by a fair bit from Cancellara and Contador. The rest would be flapping in the wind.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Valverde could always tt in Spain when the race was on the line.

See the uphill tts in the Vuelta when Nozal nearly won about 2004, and 2005.


He won an uphill tt in Pais Vasco, and might have had a result in Catalunya.



I think there is a general lack of knowledge (not referring to Crank) on the abilities of riders in tts, and the variables.

Most think it is a lab test.

This tt had 400 vertical metres of climbing between about km 5 and km 13. And a ver short rises elsewhere.

Valverde sucks in tts over 30km, long, flat, non-technical, part his threshold, part mental. It aint doping, cos god knows, he got the best of that.

So, this tt, where it had some climbs and cols to shake it up, and interrupt the rhythm, was perfect, he could attack the difficult parts, and then find a comfortable rhythm on the flatter sections, which were not too long. We know he has the power for short prologue efforts, so he could still power down on those flatter stretches.

So, lets reassess the ride. I saw the climbs, my immediate thought was, Brajkovic will win this if he is in form. Alas, he is either not doping, or not in form, and did not target this stage. I thought Levi would come second or win. Seeing the climb, I did not think he would win it.

Go back over the years, check out Valverde at the Vuelta, and Catalunya, and Pais Vasco, you will see many a result.

TTs are a different thing in the Tour when they are 50kms or longer. Most of the time is lost in the last 10 kms. That is where the pure chrono riders just get started, plus the dopers.

My point was not that Valverde has suddenly found dope...

My point (which could be wrong obviously... for the reasons you point out) was that last year's TdF was an anomoly (compared to his TT peformances prior... and possibly subsequent). It appeared that in the aftermath of OP, and probably the UCI being all over him like flies on your face in Alice Springs, that he may have sacrificed the juice in preparation and during last year's TdF. IMO - Menchov likewise. Also it's probably not easy to get a Fuentes replacement/referral that quickly.

And my understanding of TT's is that everyone is trying to ride around functional threshold. The hillier TT's favor the lighter riders because they can go faster up hills at FTP than the heavier riders, compared to their relative speeds on the flat. The descents do, I suppose, give the ability to catch one's breath, and get rid of some lactic acid, which is more difficult on the pancake flat courses. But I don't think Valverde has an advantage in strength/weight compared to Levi.

Just my 2c for discussion.

 

[Bro Deal]

Whatever happened to Hincapie's ability to TT? The average gradient doesn't look too bad here, and he was sucked at the prologue also. Did he stop working hard after he left Bruyneel?

 

[thunder]

Whatever happened to Hincapie's ability to TT? The average gradient doesn't look too bad here, and he was sucked at the prologue also. Did he stop working hard after he left Bruyneel?

thats a tough gradient.

Bro, check out Hansen, he is cyclingnews lovechild, a greater tter, top 10 in the vuelta tt last year, one of them he had a flat, and no neutral service so he finished last, but look where he is. Middle of the field, 4 mins behind.

That is instructive. He likes bumpy tts too.

Hincapie has 10 seasons of dope fuelled strength to fall back on, even if clean now.

 

[thunder]

My point was not that Valverde has suddenly found dope...

My point (which could be wrong obviously... for the reasons you point out) was that last year's TdF was an anomoly (compared to his TT peformances prior... and possibly subsequent). It appeared that in the aftermath of OP, and probably the UCI being all over him like flies on your face in Alice Springs, that he may have sacrificed the juice in preparation and during last year's TdF. IMO - Menchov likewise. Also it's probably not easy to get a Fuentes replacement/referral that quickly.

And my understanding of TT's is that everyone is trying to ride around functional threshold. The hillier TT's favor the lighter riders because they can go faster up hills at FTP than the heavier riders, compared to their relative speeds on the flat. The descents do, I suppose, give the ability to catch one's breath, and get rid of some lactic acid, which is more difficult on the pancake flat courses. But I don't think Valverde has an advantage in strength/weight compared to Levi.

Just my 2c for discussion.

Crank, check the tts length out in the Tour. They were long. And I dont think Valverde and Caisse were bringing recovery dope to the Tour.

So, all in all, quite expected. The only other thing expected, is Contadors recovery, and Rasmussens dope fuelled tting. Rass has worked on his tting, but that was a bloody joke. 50km tts are no problem when on all the gear Rass was last year.

 

[Crankyfeet]

thats a tough gradient.

I worked out from the rough profile that it was about a 6% uphill grade for 6km between the 6km and 12km mark... then it was practically all downhill to the finish.

Actually Valverde said that the first 20km of the TT was uphill... which implies that the cycling news profile might have been back to front??... (On the profile they give.... there is only 6km of uphill and the last 20km is downhill). He also said that the downhill was quite technical... and if the profile on CN is correct.... the 20km downhill was only about a 2% grade. I think they have the profile in reverse by mistake.

 

[Bro Deal]

thats a tough gradient.

I don't want to pull it up again but it looked like <400m in about 6 - 7 km, so less than 6%. The Hincapie of old would have ridden up that like it was flat.

 

[thunder]

I don't want to pull it up again but it looked like <400m in about 6 - 7 km, so less than 6%. The Hincapie of old would have ridden up that like it was flat.

yes, but he would not have been able to gun it like Valverde.

Its relative. Hincapie would have handled it fine, but not been able to use his advantage.

 

[EvilJediJ]

I really want to know why Valverde didn't ride the Vuelta last year.

Hint?

 

[Crankyfeet]

I really want to know why Valverde didn't ride the Vuelta last year.

Hint?

I don't know if you are being literal (you don't know) or sarcastic. But here is an excerpt from wikipedia on his 2007 season..

He decided not to race the Vuelta a España in order to prepare for the 2007 UCI Road World Championships.[11] On August 29, 2007, the UCI announced that they prevented Valverde from riding the 2007 UCI Road World Championships in Stuttgart because of his possible implication in the Operación Puerto doping investigation to safeguard the atmosphere and reputation of the World Championships.[12] The UCI also called upon the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) to open disciplinary proceedings against the rider, but RFEC refused to comply with the UCI's request, saying there was no new evidence against him. RFEC also included Valverde in its squad for the World Championships.[13] The matter was taken to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which authorised Valverde to participate in the 2007 UCI Road World Championships.[14]

 

[thunder]

I don't know if you are being literal (you don't know) or sarcastic. But here is an excerpt from wikipedia on his 2007 season..

there was a reason, but don't think Heroes can divulge for ethcal reasons

 

[Crankyfeet]

there was a reason, but don't think Heroes can divulge for ethcal reasons

Fair enough... that means it was a genuine reason in any case.

 

[azdroptop]

New position on the bike. George commented he didn't think he was going to put down the same power.....?

Whatever happened to Hincapie's ability to TT? The average gradient doesn't look too bad here, and he was sucked at the prologue also. Did he stop working hard after he left Bruyneel?

 

[Runitout]

Fair enough... that means it was a genuine reason in any case.

Er, there's reasons and there's reasons...

 

[Grater]

Valverde will win stage 4 too.

 

[thunder]

New position on the bike. George commented he didn't think he was going to put down the same power.....?

hahahhahahhaha

so, after his time at USPS, he is now changing contact points in his tt position.

I don't buy it.

 

[limerickman]

Info on tomorrows stage: The last climb of the day, up to Le Saleve (or les Crets du Saleve) is nasty. Has a 4.5km section in the middle that averages at 11%, with a kilometre long section at just over 12%. Gets a bit easier once they hit the ridge, from Les Croisette to the top of the climb is only around 4.5% but if someone's suffered on the steep section before hand they're going to struggle to get back on/stay on if someone attacks. Descent into town is very technical and pretty steep (over 10% in some places).

I'm not sure where exactly in Annemasse they finish, but it's slightly up hill from where they cross the river at the base of the descent until the finish line. If a group goes to the line then Valverde will win it no questions asked. However there is plenty of oppurtunity for someone to attack on the steep section and then hold off the chasing group, but only if they're a pretty solid descender. Should be interesting.

Thanks for that update, Eld.
Good post.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Fair enough... that means it was a genuine reason in any case.

Private reasons.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Private reasons.

Yeah I gathered that... no problem.