Another try at the "Biomechanical Evaluation of Pedalling Mechanics-Big Lance' thread



i'll take your definative and absolute neglect by way of ignorant abstenace to be my answer, Mr. Crowley.

"Judge not lest ye be judged yourself."

what have you done for cycling lately other than ***** about those who have?

it's like those triathletes who condemn Big Lance's tt position but who the hell are they other than dust in his wind? i thought as much.

my two cents.

"Prove otherwise, until then you merely prove nothing at all." ~Sir Preston.
 
dhk2 said:
FYI, this week's RBR newsletter has a link to a review and discussion of Powercranks. To me, it seems like a fair appraisal. The author's conclusion is positive, but solely subjective.
Powercranks X-Lite | Cyclingnews.com


good stuff! i especially like these two parts:

1.) Later on we gradually weaned ourselves off the Powercranks and regularly swapped back and forth onto standard, fixed cranks. In addition to feeling worlds easier, the obvious changes were a much improved pedal stroke overall and the ability to maintain a faster cadence with less bouncing in the saddle.


2.) Theory and various disputed scientific studies aside, one other interesting fact is the number of pros who are reportedly training on these (including a multi-time US national champion, a now-retired Paris-Roubaix winner and a perennial grand tour contender), albeit in secret as the supposed Powercranks riders we contacted either categorically denied using them or simply didn't respond. Whether that was due to sponsorship conflicts or a desire to keep a 'secret weapon' to themselves is impossible to say but noteworthy nonetheless.

thanks for the article and link. good stuff, Frank!
 
Not really helpful. It doesn't take us any further than "I think GCs make us more powerful, going to normal cranks feels easier or my pedalling feels smoother". Dave Ryan posted a good piece here a while ago highlighting that what we think and what is actually happening can be two very different things.

So I don't really care what Mr Haung "thinks" just as much as I don't expect people to care what I think or what my IMHO is I want to see some real evidence. So far the research has shown no advantage and the majority of claimed improvements have either been falsified, shown poor understanding of measurement methods or claimed improvements have come from N=1 experiments with no control group to compare against.
 
fergie said:
Not really helpful. It doesn't take us any further than "I think GCs make us more powerful, going to normal cranks feels easier or my pedalling feels smoother". Dave Ryan posted a good piece here a while ago highlighting that what we think and what is actually happening can be two very different things.

So I don't really care what Mr Haung "thinks" just as much as I don't expect people to care what I think or what my IMHO is I want to see some real evidence. So far the research has shown no advantage and the majority of claimed improvements have either been falsified, shown poor understanding of measurement methods or claimed improvements have come from N=1 experiments with no control group to compare against.

albeit i sure feel as if i was born to be a rocket scientist, i'm not but even i can tell you that 2 +2 makes 4. always has, always will.

test them on your own cyclists that you coach and then come back with that falsified **** which has no place in this discussion and is a very, very remedial thing to suggest let alone say.
 
So all the riders I train should plonk down US$1K based on a hunch, a guess, a feel???

:rolleyes:
 
fergie said:
So all the riders I train should plonk down US$1K based on a hunch, a guess, a feel???

:rolleyes:

that depends, how much is the purse for first place? get one set, train one rider on one with the Pcranks, one without but train them EXACTLY the same or as much as in the same manner given the difference in cranks so as to have your control group, experiment with and test it out yourself between the two because from what i've understood of cycling, 'worlds easier to pedal' along with 'much less hip rocking' equals quicker and more productive riding, wouldn't you agree?

anywho, just saying, it's in your hands or at the very least it could be. well, in your cranks rather!! ha!

and i'd have to bet that the rider without the PC's is gonna be demanding he get some soon enough. after all, no one likes being second.
 
roadhouse said:
and i'd have to bet that the rider without the PC's is gonna be demanding he get some soon enough. after all, no one likes being second.

Nice opinion but based on what?

No research has shown any advantage, some have shown a negative effect. No Pro Cyclists have made any dramatic improvements from using them that they can show was due only to the use of a GCs.

I carry out a lot of testing and experimentation with different products and methods but there has to be a realistic basis before I will take that step.

At present I am looking at the use of Spirometers. Craig Palmer has the NZ Track Cycling Team using them. Research is mixed, will talk to some Sports Doctors and Exericse Physiologists and consider their use. Also will have my riders try a dose of caffeine before their track events and use a shorter warm up than has been used in the past.
 
fergie said:
I carry out a lot of testing and experimentation with different products and methods but there has to be a realistic basis before I will take that step.

PC's do nothing more than teach the objectives of the circular pedalling style, but would a complete change in technique increase power output. If I had a set I would try the following, instead of using the full pedalling circle, each pedal would only move up/down between 1 and 5 o'c. With this method because there would be no dead spot area, the perfected timing of simultaneous unweighting/power application should make it possible to apply highly effective torque to one of the cranks at all times. Would it work? I don't know.
 
i'm finding out more as i go along but it all looks good from where i ride.

Wed, 01/16/2008 - 7:27am by alex


By Kenneth Lundgren
I remember racing Bear Mountain Fall 2005. A breakaway of four went up the road. On the final lap, one of the riders, Ryan Morris of Cornell University, had flatted, and we picked him up road-side. Two more guys were scooped up, leaving only Dan Zmolik up the road, able to stay away for the victory.
In the downhill sprint, Morris, off the front for most of the race, was STILL able to take the sprint for 2nd. Pretty. Damn. Impressive. It was apparent that when Morris flatted, the horsepower of that break flattened, too…
I raced with him a month later in Rhode Island at the Jamestown Classic. We got into an early breakaway, and man this kid could ride! We were caught mid-way, a rider soloed off, and in the final sprint – you got it – this kid Morris took the sprint for 2nd! He had a very fluid, effortless pedal stroke, able to power in TT-mode for long stretches, and he could also sprint…
In May 2006 I found myself in a 2-man break with him at the Hollenbeck Road Race, Cornell’s home race. We hammered for 44 miles, and this kid just did not seem to tire. He crushed me in the steep uphill finish, putting 11 seconds into me in less than 200 feet. Afterwards, we got to talking, and he told me of his training secret…
As an engineering major at Cornell, Morris was thinking of inventing the ultimate training tool: independent cranks. But then he realized they already existed: POWERCRANKS. Morris was on them immediately, riding them a ton, and in less than two years, he went from being a Cat-5 to Cat-1 and one of the top time-trialists in America.
Purchasing a set of PowerCranks, second only to a power meter, is where you should put your money if looking to improve performance. Carbon frames, aerodynamic wheels, lighter pedals, hugely expensive wind-tunnel testing, the latest 10-speed groupset – these things should not be your ticket to getting faster. PowerCranks offer a plethora of benefits: they teach you how to pedal more efficiently, strengthen your core, strengthen your legs, help you maximize your strength, and teach you how to best fit on the bike…
PowerCranks force you to pedal each leg independently. When you get on the bike, both crank arms are hanging down. You clip in and must pedal each leg individually, picking your leg up and pedaling in complete circles – there is no fixed bottom bracket holding the cranks together in a 180° position. You can pedal one leg at time, both legs at the same time. The moment you stop pedaling, both legs fall to the down position. Most guys who get on them either want to not ride them again, sell them, or can do only 5-20 minutes at a time. You usually ride very slowly and the cadence is very, very low – most likely you find the 11 and keep it there! You are hitting new muscles you never hit before and simply do not have the ability to keep picking your foot up…
But if you stick with it, PowerCranks will help you create the perfect pedal stroke. Let’s break down the pedaling action: your hamstrings are not only used on the upstroke. As you’re pedaling down, you should already be pulling back. There is a lot of hamstring in the downstroke. If you can access this large muscle in your downstroke, you will increase power.
As you get to the bottom of the downstroke, Greg LeMond’s advice from the 1980s remains the best and most succinct: “Scrape the mud off the bottom of your shoe.” Never will you feel like you’re scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe as much as when you are PowerCranking…
The upstroke is primarily a hip flexor and hamstring effort. One way to improve your pedal stroke, without using PowerCranks or doing pedaling efficiency drills, is to mountain bike as it forces you to pedal in circles to gain traction and get over rocks, roots, steep inclines, and other challenges in the trail. When you start mountain biking, you’ll realize how important a perfect pedal stroke is as you struggle through a rock garden or ride over a log… It’s not surprising that many fast mountain bikers are also avid PowerCrankers – mountain bikers have excellent pedaling action…
The final part of the pedal stroke is the top, and you need to drop the heel as you come over the top of the stroke, something PowerCranks automatically make you do. I can tell you from absolute experience that after first riding these things, muscles in your ankle, in your calf, behind your knee – muscles that you never knew you had – will be sore because you’ve never used them on the bike before.
Team Campmor’s Eddy Ceccolini, New Jersey’s fastest and one of New England’s best professional mountain bikers, rides PowerCranks religiously. Fast Eddy commutes to work on them 2-4 times a week during the race season, and in the off-season he’s on them usually 4 times, generally 8-12 hours a week. He doesn’t try to do too much structure – he just tries to ride them consistently as he knows how beneficial they are.
Just remaining upright on the PowerCrank bike forces you to use core muscles in your abs and lower back that you don’t use when pedaling traditional cranks. Westwood Velo’s Mike Gisler, the 2007 New Jersey State Time Trial Champion, noted that if he gets back on the Power Cranks after a break, his core is sore the next day. He credits Power Cranks for not only giving him a more powerful and efficient pedaling stroke but also a very strong core, a powerful ingredient to time trial success. Mike believes he also avoids injury because his tendons are super-strengthened, not to mention PowerCranks prevent muscle imbalances because his pedal stroke has become complete.
As the name implies, PowerCranks also do just that: they improve your power. Because it’s tiresome to keep picking your leg up, you end up pushing a bigger gear than normal, putting more stress on your quad. I should also mention another important fact about PowerCranks: they are HEAVY. When I put them on my Ghisallo, I added close to three pounds to my bike. So, when pedaling you can certainly feel the weight of these suckers, making the workouts even harder!
After PowerCrank training, on your regular bike you will notice that you can push a bigger gear, either when climbing, riding at threshold, or just cruising at tempo. But the Cranks FORCE you to strengthen your hamstring and hip flexors, so if you’re now using three muscles more effectively as opposed to one on the road bike, do you think you can ride harder, longer? The muscular workload is divided more evenly.
Something I’ve discovered is PowerCranks can take your strength and maximize it – The Tale of Two Opposite Time Trialists. Westwood’s Mike Gisler rides them a lot, and he is wicked fast on them. He time trials at around 80-85 rpms, so he's right at home on these things. At 80 rpms on the TT bike, he's putting out even more power because he’s utilizing a complete stroke.
I've been riding the PowerCranks for almost a year now. I'm the opposite of Gisler, spinning a much smaller gear in TTs, 105-110 rpms, and I’ve still garnered improvements because of the Cranks. I thought the PowerCranks would help lower my cadence, but they really didn’t – the cadence has actually increased! On the Cranks, I'm usually at 90-95 rpms. But I notice when I'm time-trialing, I can stay at a higher cadence without fatiguing because my pedal stroke is much improved. As a result, I feel much, much more comfortable time-trialing now. The quads, hip flexors, hammies, core – everything just feels solid. My legs aren’t fatiguing like they used to, whereas before I lacked the massive power to TT fast at 110 rpms… PowerCranks catered to my personal riding style and helped my capacity for time-trialing.
Succinctly, PowerCranks help strengthen your strength. If you are a sprinter doing sprints on them, I can guarantee you will sprint faster on your road bike (you truly learn to balance your body – you can’t even sprint on PowerCranks without a powerful core). If you are a climber and consistently did hill repeats on them, whether a spinner or big-gear masher, when you get on your road bike you will climb as if shot out of a cannon…
Once you put the Cranks on a spare bike, over time you’ll tinker with the position so you can ride them better. On my PowerCrank bike, I now have my handlebars higher, my saddle more forward and a little lower. I’ve found that with my bars higher, I can keep my hip angle open, allowing me to keep picking my leg up. Additionally, if you slide the saddle back, you’ll find it easier to ride the Cranks.
However, I’m focusing on TTs, so I have the saddle more forward, making it harder to pull up (further back, you can ride longer because you’re incorporating more leg muscle and core, and further forward you’re more aero but relying more on your quads and will fatigue faster – this is why if you want to become a good time trialist, as with anything else, you need to train the position).
I also found it easier for me to pedal with the saddle slightly lower, as I can pedal THROUGH the stroke more effectively. I see too many riders with their saddles too high, hips almost teetering up there, feet pointing down to reach for the bottom of that pedal stroke, and if they had that same height with PowerCranks, they’d have difficulty. With the saddle a smidge lower than usual, I can power down and through the stroke with more control – when I made the adjustment, I felt exponentially more competent on the Cranks. If you began applying these concepts to your road bike fit, I guarantee you’d benefit similarly…
Roger Aspholm of FinCraft Endurance Sport Coaching and one of the nation’s strongest 35+ racers has been riding PowerCranks since 1999. He understands that you need to balance the body and get both legs equally strong, that you need to properly tune that V8 engine! He thinks they’re pretty much the greatest training invention, teaching the neurological system to pedal perfectly.
Aspholm makes a good point in that it takes a long time to build strength on these things. “There is no shortcut to stardom, so be very patient,” Roger says. “Once you have eliminated all your weak spots in your legs, you can pretty much train normal on these. I do sprints, hill intervals, longer steadier intervals, and once in a while even fast group rides on these. If you have a PowerTap, then you have something to stare at when you are dealing with the pain. Pain is good!”
Now is the time to ride them. In the winter, we should all be returning to the gym, hitting up a progressive lifting program. As the leg strength is developed, endurance and force work on the bike can then be done. All the while, we should be working on our pedaling efficiency – so this means hitting the PowerCranks regularly! In my program, the first six weeks of Foundation training focuses on pedaling mechanics – this is what we need to do as we embark on winter riding. As the training progresses, you'll be able to do tempo and force work on them, and then during the season you should ride them at least once a week. Last year I rode them on my easy days, hoping to get acclimated to them. This year, I'm going to hammer on them once during the week, actually make a PowerCrank day – they're that important.
Doing group rides on PowerCranks is beneficial because it gets you on the Cranks for a few hours, usually without going too too hard. Don’t get me wrong: PowerCranks HURT. During a group ride, you’re working twice as hard as the guy next to you. But because you really can’t focus primarily on the downstroke and are instead hitting your hamstrings and hip flexors so much, it’s difficult to get out of the Tempo zone, or even elevate the HR up for extended periods… In a way, PowerCranking prevents you from going too hard and keeps you in the proper training zone because it’s difficult to hammer 100%.
PowerCranks are not magic, not some fast secret, not an easy recipe to the podium. You need to put in the time and be willing to suffer. Aspholm makes a good point in that success does not come overnight. Like with everything, you need to take your time with them and gradually find improvement. But this much is guaranteed: if you have the desire, motivation, and the ability to push yourself, PowerCranks are a great way to help you realize 100% of your potential.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Lundgren

Professional Cycling Coach


Kenneth Lundgren comes from an athletic background, wrestling for 4 years at Pequannock Township High School, one of the state’s top programs. The team’s motto was “TOTAL COMMITMENT,” and this hard work ethic was ingrained in his blood, leading to success on the mat. However, during his senior year he broke his thumb, forcing him to miss the rest of the season and even the beginning of the baseball campaign. To stay active, he picked up a tennis racquet and found an ability to play the sport.
During college, Ken dedicated much of his free time to playing tennis and competing in tournaments. With aspirations to play professionally, he took his training to the next level. “I can vividly remember deciding to buy a road bike to increase my endurance,” Ken said, “a yellow Trek 1000. The bike changed my life forever...”
While living on the William Paterson University campus, he would ride to the Ridgewood Racquet Club, where he was a teaching pro, give lessons and play, then ride home at night, “three racquets stuffed into this old Marine knapsack, wearing these poofy Adidas pants and Nike tennis shoes. Those were the days!”
Shortly thereafter, Ken won two consecutive tournaments, crediting his core routine and bike regimen for part of his success. However, his riding had increased so much that there was a definite shift of interest – he had an undeniable affinity for cycling. Consequently, competitive tennis took a backseat. As one of the state’s top players, he decided to focus more on teaching and cycling.
Ken caught the bug: he was riding faster, riding longer, his physique slimming down, his energy level peaking. His weight dropped from 178 to 160, and he was now enjoying those long climbs up to the dorms. He even took Exercise Physiology courses at school, beginning to read up on the sport. Later that year, he started doing large group rides with other cyclists, getting involved in a new community.
He was hooked and remembers that summer as his favorite: “I was a senior in college, out for summer break. I had never felt so strong before. I didn’t think about the future. I just rode my bike. Everywhere. Every day. All the time.” Within a year, he joined Westwood Velo, a local cycling club, and participated in some beginner road races, taking 4th in his first road race. Bike number two was purchased soon thereafter.
After college, while attending graduate school, Ken decided to train and compete more seriously. He won 8 of his first 10 races. During this time, he became a true student of the sport, keeping a diligent training diary, learning the scientific approach to the sport, experimenting with different training programs, reading training books, and pouring through online journals and websites.
By late-fall, Ken took a break from the bike. While away, his studies increased. He continued to read up on what the experts had to say and became especially interested with healthy performance diet plans. How do the best train? And why? He kept diligent notes on everything he read and began to create his own ideas and principles...
A few years later, Ken began riding again. At first he rode in a very unstructured manner, just enjoying the bike and racing again. But in the second half of the season, he started following his own training systems and the results began to appear.
From word-of-mouth, Ken began coaching two athletes who wanted some guidance and direction. He said if he was going to coach, he’d do it right, paying incredible attention to detail, communicating regularly, and creating personalized training programs. He especially didn’t like how many training companies over-charge, don’t communicate much with the athlete, and seem to pump out black and white programs better suited for the masses and not the individual.
After a month, Ken was thoroughly surprised: he enjoyed coaching much more than he thought he would. The athlete’s success was his success... A few more athletes soon asked Ken to help them, and he realized he might want to focus more time coaching – he lives for the sport, understands the science behind the training, and loves helping people. Ken aced the USA Cycling Level 3 Coaching Exam and began pouring more energy into his company, Elite Endurance Training Systems.
“Training programs just aren’t blueprints,” Ken says. “You have to look at an athlete’s background, at their strengths, their weaknesses, at their goals and objectives, and you pump this information into a personalized training program that’s geared for maximum efficiency and, hopefully, wide success.”
Kenneth Lundgren is a member of the Northeastern Hardware Cycling Team, competing against professional cyclists. The team is coached by legendary Jim Grill, former National Junior Team Coach. The team manager is Mike Rosenhaus, a former National Junior Team member and Junior National Pursuit Champion who remains one of the area's strongest and most successful riders. Following a structured training program using a power meter, look for Ken to be competitive in the Time Trial Cup Series, while peaking for the State Road Race, State Time Trial Championships, and the National Time Trial Championships.
 
roadhouse said:
i'm finding out more as i go along but it all looks good from where i ride.

Yours and Ken's opinion have been duly noted in the minutes. Wake me up when you have some real data.
 
fergie said:
Yours and Ken's opinion have been duly noted in the minutes. Wake me up when you have some real data.

An age old article but how would you rate yourself next to Doctor Max Tesla seeing as how you are apparently so much better than Coach Kenneth Lundgren, Kiwicoach?

PowerCranks: Long Term Test</B>
Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:23:00 AM PT

by Charles Manantan


powercranks1.jpg
Power (or is it Finesse?) Cranks.

I just talked with two guys who are so good at what they do, people pay ‘em to be in cycling (so go ahead and hate ‘em even though they’re great guys…). Most of the time when you’re calling people to talk about a product, you get the cliché answers from folks who are paid to use something. Not so when I spoke with Todd Herriott of Team Health Net and Dr. Max Testa about PowerCranks…

powercranks2.jpg


This was supposed to be my long-term review article, but due to a muscle tear, followed by a bug strangely resembling the same thing that knocked George Hincapie off the bike (I feel ya Bro!) I was forced to get on the horn with a few other people for the beef on PowerCranks over the long haul. What I can tell you in terms of personal hard data, is that my CompuTrainer spin scan rating jumped into the High 80’s – Low 90’s (Meaning that my power was being applied in close to a perfect circle). What that means is my down stroke leg wasn’t being forced to lift my upstroke leg. That also means that I was using most of my energy to move forward rather than carry my leg around… And it meant that my Heart rate at a given power production at the same 300 watts, was 6-8 beats lower (@ 4%). Take into account that that was just during base phase and before I was trying to develop any power and was only using the Cranks for 1 month and a half! But enough about my thoughts… (even at a pathetic 4% increase, that’s a full minute off a 20k TT…)

powrcnk_side.jpg

The PowerCranks operate as two independent cranks.


Subject A: Todd Herriott, Team Health Net
I spoke this morning to Kevin Herriot, Team Health Net’s latest signing, who is making his pro Debut at the Tender age of 34 (Which more than anything, pisses me off by spoiling my age excuse…). He has been on the Cranks for almost two years and calls himself and absolute advocate. “By far the most notable advantage is climbing. I can sit and roll when everyone else is out of the saddle on climbs. I can also roll on the flats in gears I couldn’t push before…” He commented that his “significant other” notices the muscle change. “She says I look deformed… My Hip flexors are like baseballs under my skin from using them.”

The bottom line from Todd is being able to produce power from a full stroke while other people are standing (needing to compensate for weak spots buy producing more power in other positions in the pedal stroke), and burning less energy to produce the same power. That’s not a bad thing…

powerlogo.jpg


Subject B: Dr. Max Testa, UC Davis Sports Performance Lab
The next call of the day was from Max Testa! Yes, that’s the same guy that has basically done it all seen it all and coached em all. That’s Motorola, 7-11, MG-Technogym and my all time favorite team (who need to get back into cycling!) Mapei.

Dr. Testa was quick to indicate that fully controlled study is still needed, but that preliminary impressions from several high caliber athlete’s had been very positive. With riders like Danielle Nardello and Stefano Garzelli liking the results and producing more even power output from using them. He had also seen some 25 – 30 watt gains at LT (lactate threshold) in people using them for the first time, but also said that other training stimulus were present. He calls them a “very valuable tool” and something that forces everyone, pro’s and amateurs alike, to be more efficient by forcing you to carry the weight of the up stroke leg and also maintain force through the entire range of motion. “It’s something that nothing else forces you to do and it makes you do work that is without a doubt of benefit.”

powercrankspin.jpg

This photo shows what happens when a rider gets lazy with PowerCranks.


For those of you who don’t try sneaking a peak at top level cyclists' power meters while they're doing LT tests, that 25 – 30 watt gain at LT is in the area of a 7% (or more) increase for the highly trained athletes that Dr. Testa deals with. That is significant in two ways. First, that it comes from people who are already trained (so it’s not some guy who could get a big gain by just simply starting to exercise…) and second, it is that 7% would be the difference between winning a TT and placing out of the top 30. It should be noted that working with a top caliber man like Max (of which there are only a few world wide…) will mean that people are getting better regardless, but these gains are super… (We understand that a great many things effect times, speed etc. Using percentages is a simple way to generalize results.)

All in all, PowerCranks are under a who’s who of riders around the world, and probably the only reason that you don’t hear about them like you do other training devices is that Power Cranks don’t pay nearly as much as other companies do on pro endorsements. In fact, several pro’s that I have spoken to don’t want anyone knowing that they ride ‘em. Damn sad in this world of over hyped **** that does nothing but cost you time and money that there are so many other things on people’s shopping list ahead of PowerCranks, but I would bet that changes as more and more people find out who’s on the things…
 
is it the Powercranks you are bashing or is it Frank Day? wondering if the guy from Cornell had gotten to it first would the sh!t that spews from the mouths of a certain few St folk that fuels your fire be the same?

it seems as if anyone who got to it first could be it but we'd need a control group for that, of course.
 
Yours Max's and Ken's opinion have been duly noted in the minutes. Wake me up when you have some real data.
 
Yes, to me the article clearly points up the issue of real data vs subjective feelings. I certainly don't see how it answers the issue in any way. To me, the discussion about the benefits of training the "weaker" (ie, lifting) muscles with the PC gets to the heart of the issue. IE, is it any more efficient to share the workload with the weaker muscles that don't have the biomechanical advantage, or just concentrate on training the strong walking/running/pushing side of the legs?

Believe all the same questions apply to one-legged-training, which of course can be done by anyone without investing in a PC crank. I've been doing a few sessions on the gym trainers the last couple of weeks, pedaling with one leg for 45 secs at a time, five sets, as part of a little indoor power-building program. It is getting easier, and believe I can feel the effects when climbing at low cadence seated, but can't say it's raised my speed or endurance.
 
Most coaches look at the claims of these gimmicks and go so what. Once you weed out the false data and people who don't understand what they are measuring or how they are measuring the increases if there are any are pretty marginal. You get more bang for your time from a well chosen block of intervals, a well controlled taper into a big event, or taking an extra hour each day to prepare excellent meals to support your training and racing. There is some data for that:cool:
 
you keep calling it a gimmick yet engineer cyclists are the ones who are thinking of it and accelerating due to it and a doctor, not to mention a triathlete cyclist, is the one coming up with 'em and proffessional cyclists abide by them as well as world class coaches when it comes to pedaling technique. i'm only convinced that 2+2 ='s 3 in NZ.

one legged drills combined into one crank? genious.

are you an engineer? a doctor? physician? an ironman? or just some old guy with a bike who likes to spend too much time with little boys?
 
roadhouse said:
you keep calling it a gimmick yet engineer cyclists are the ones who are thinking of it and accelerating due to it and a doctor, not to mention a triathlete cyclist, is the one coming up with 'em and proffessional cyclists abide by them as well as world class coaches when it comes to pedaling technique. i'm only convinced that 2+2 ='s 3 in NZ.

And some of the smartest brains in the world sent up the Challenger Space Shuttle even when some knew there was a fault. Appeals to authority or celebrity endorsement is not valid or reliable data.

You get far better improvements from well designed programmes and sensible nutrition.
 
fergie said:
And some of the smartest brains in the world sent up the Challenger Space Shuttle even when some knew there was a fault. Appeals to authority or celebrity endorsement is not valid or reliable data.

You get far better improvements from well designed programmes and sensible nutrition.


cover your eyes, ladies. where did Christa McAuliffe take her vacation? all over Florida.
that's bad and i'm going to burn...eh. what a disaster that was. poor crew.

i'm giving up on you and all of this data stuff. cyclists know that pedaling is where it's at and anything that provides correct and positive pedaling can't be wrong or bad and it definately wasn't designed and built with bad intentions as it seems you are making it out to be. try them, or don't.


i will.
 
roadhouse said:
i'm giving up on you and all of this data stuff.

Wise move, you would lose.
cyclists know that pedaling is where it's at and anything that provides correct and positive pedaling can't be wrong or bad and it definately wasn't designed and built with bad intentions as it seems you are making it out to be. try them, or don't.

I'm too busy experimenting with things that do work:cool:
 

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