Another try at the "Biomechanical Evaluation of Pedalling Mechanics-Big Lance' thread
- Thread starter Fday
- Start date
i'm learning as i go along is all i can honestly say to what the two of you are implying.
and i'm just a bit more interested in the left and right sides of the body working in harmony and the of the complete kind producing the most from myself so science or no, i can very easily see myself needing that tool in the near future and using it as intended and with results.
it's not about the bike, it's just that this is a cycling forum.
and i'm just a bit more interested in the left and right sides of the body working in harmony and the of the complete kind producing the most from myself so science or no, i can very easily see myself needing that tool in the near future and using it as intended and with results.
it's not about the bike, it's just that this is a cycling forum.
roadhouse, you don't need the expensive training aid to learn about how each leg is working. Just do some one-legged pedaling drills. On the road, shift into an easy gear, unclip one foot, place in against the rear stay, and pedal with the other foot. Do 30-60 secs on each leg, and try to keep a decent cadence. I predict it will be difficult at first, causing pain in your hip flexors, and you'll also find that it's easier on one leg than the other. If you do say five sets and repeat once a week over a period of a couple of months it will become much easier and more fluid. I'm confident you'll become more fluid and powerful at one-legged pedaling as your leg muscles learn to fire in this new and unusual pattern.
The only issue of course is whether we can become more powerful at two-legged pedaling from doing this. After all, we don't ride or race one leg at a time, and since muscular power really isn't an issue for most cycling events anyway, the jury is still out.
Forget the pedaling for a minute, and think about runners. Cycling is an aerobic event, like long distance running. If you were training for a 10K or a marathon, do you think training to hop forward on one leg would help you? If so, why? Those are the questions science tries to answer and explain.
The only issue of course is whether we can become more powerful at two-legged pedaling from doing this. After all, we don't ride or race one leg at a time, and since muscular power really isn't an issue for most cycling events anyway, the jury is still out.
Forget the pedaling for a minute, and think about runners. Cycling is an aerobic event, like long distance running. If you were training for a 10K or a marathon, do you think training to hop forward on one leg would help you? If so, why? Those are the questions science tries to answer and explain.
roadhouse said:
Do you know that powercranks were invented for use in HPV's and not for RR/TT bikes. Q, Why does it take a week of PC training before you can ride for 1 hour ? A. Because PC's turn the pedaling circle into an obstacle course where additional very weak and rarely used muscles are forced into action. Trying to increase power output and speed by using PC's could be best described by an athlete training for the 100 m. sprint doing all his training with alternate lead leg efforts on the hurdle course.
dhk2 said:
i'm not sure why you went that route and how old are we again? i was simply stating that i know of and have practiced one legged drills and i can see that being on PC's for hours at a time beats 30-60 seconds of individual and not to mention imbalanced one legged drills anyday.
anywho, if you wanna be like that than so be it as it's no real skin off of my back but i'm gonna hold you to your words.
i'm just simply amazed. good stuff, Mr Frank Day.
Training With Independent Cranks Alters Muscle Coordination Pattern in Cyclists
UNIVERSITA’ DEGLI STUDI DI URBINO
Fernández-Peña, E, Lucertini, F, and Ditroilo, M.
J Strength Cond Res 23(6): 1764-1772, 2009
Training With Independent Cranks Alters Muscle Coordination Pattern in Cyclists
UNIVERSITA’ DEGLI STUDI DI URBINO
Fernández-Peña, E, Lucertini, F, and Ditroilo, M.
J Strength Cond Res 23(6): 1764-1772, 2009
In cycling, a circular pedaling action makes the most useful contribution to forward propulsion. Training with independent cranks (IC) has been proposed to improve the pedaling action. The aims of this study were, first, to assess whether the intermuscular coordination pattern of the pedaling action with normal cranks (NC) is modified after a training period with IC and, second, to determine if the new coordination pattern is maintained after a washing-out period. Eighteen cyclists, divided into a control (CG) and an experimental (EG) group, underwent 2 test sessions (T1 and T2) separated by 2 weeks of training (18 hours). The electromyographic (EMG) activity of 4 lower limbs' muscles was recorded while the athletes pedaled at 80 rpm for 60 seconds at 30 and 50% of the maximal power output determined during a maximal pedaling test. The tasks were performed with IC (EG) and NC (EG and CG). The EG underwent a retention test session (T3) after another 18-hour training with NC. EG showed a significant (45.8 ± 8.8 vs. 36.0 ± 6.1%, p < 0.01 at 30% intensity) and a quasi-significant (62.7 ± 10.3 vs. 54.2 ± 8.7%, p = 0.09 at 50% intensity) decrease in vastus lateralis EMG activity and a quasi-significant (36.4 ± 13.4 vs. 43.5 ± 10.9%, p = 0.09 at 30% intensity) and a significant (54.5 ± 12.1 vs. 65.5 ± 16.1%, p < 0.05 at 50% intensity) increase in biceps femoris EMG activity between T1-NC and T2-NC. By T3, EMG activity returned to initial levels (T1). On the contrary, CG did not reveal any significant variation. The results provide scientific support for muscle coordination pattern alteration from the use of IC, potentially achieving a more effective pedaling action. IC training reduces quadriceps exertion, thus preserving it for important moments during competition.
You still doesn't get it. Posting additional "studies" does nothing to prove valid the suggested function of Powercranks. The glaring error you're making is not acknowledging that there are studies that showed the athletes didn't make significant gains with Powercranks. In simple terms, there is no absolute proof that the things work as advertised. It doesn't exist.
You claim you're learning as you go, but I think you're just paying lip service to that idea. You've no interest at all in any objective analysis. You've bought the marketing spiel, hook, line, and 15lb lead sinker.
Your cut and pasteathons add absolutely nothing to to the discussion. They just take up space. If you cared at all about courtesy, you'd learn to link to articles instead of pasting **** that takes up nearly an entire page.
You claim you're learning as you go, but I think you're just paying lip service to that idea. You've no interest at all in any objective analysis. You've bought the marketing spiel, hook, line, and 15lb lead sinker.
Your cut and pasteathons add absolutely nothing to to the discussion. They just take up space. If you cared at all about courtesy, you'd learn to link to articles instead of pasting **** that takes up nearly an entire page.
alienator said:
i've recently learned to not care to reply with meaning or interest to you.
sorry, i shouldn't be like that but i'm sick and tired of everything i do being scrutinized by you. we should be able to talk on normal terms but i've learned that it's impossible with you and so that is why i don't care to rebuttle much at your insignificant cries for attention which only seem to be on one level at all times, yesterdays.
i read what i read, i know what i know, i believe in what i believe and that is that not you or anyone else is gonna make me feel different. i understand the mechanics of pedaling. i understand the importance of it and of saving muscles for that time when competition rings through. i believe in race results and i understand that numerous amounts of top pros and coaches worldwide understand the same so who are you to try and say anything to me or to Frank with all that snake oil salesman ****?
get a life and keep it away from mine if all your gonna continually do is hound me with your stupid and absolute ignorant bullsh!t.
roadhouse said:
Guys like Frank must love guys like you. Top physiologists like Andy Coggan and Biomechanists like Jim Martin will be stoked to know you are here to set them straight.
We look forward to your impending 40% ave gain in power and if you are currently have a better FTP than me your success at this years World Champs because that is what 40% would mean to me.
roadhouse said:do any of those guys have seven tour victories? didn't think so.
please, those guys are none of my business at the moment as much as i am sure i am none of theirs.
Ah yes I recall Frank had a mate whose second cousin first removed's postman knews a guy who works with a guy who dates a chick who thought she saw Lance using Gimmickcranks.
We personally don't care what you do. Like Frank if you are going to make claims then you better be prepared to back them up. Frank has been failing rather amusingly at this for 10 years now.
roadhouse said:
Read any of the 2000 or so posts on Slowtwitch that he twists into a pimp for GCs. Here you could read many of the posts where he has spouted his nonsense. He has been warned on Slowtwitch for spamming the threads and troll like behaviour.
The best is...
http://www.cyclingforums.com/cycling-training/233514-pealling-push-up-push-down.html
Extraordinary claims (40% average power increase for GC users) require extraordinary proof.
But hey you will use them and we await you crowning at World Champs because I'm sure you have a higher FTP than me and if I was 40% better I would be World Champ. Won't I feel foolish then.
fergie said:
Yup. Hand waving isn't proof. Cherry picking "studies" that support your claims isn't proof. That there are studies that haven't seen the wild or any significant improvements is signifies that currently, proof that Powercranks do as they claim doesn't exist.
roadhouse said:
Ah, once again, you demonstrate that you don't understand what proof is. The list of race results? Well, to put things in perspective, that list is miniscule compared to the number of race results where Powercrank users didn't finish on the podium. Besides, race results are not controlled experiments. Factors in race results are innumerable. Nothing is held constant, save for the distance of the race. As such, there is nothing in those results that says that training with Powercranks is what produced said results. Your claims and the manufacturer's claims are merely unproven theory at this point. Obviously, I'm using the term theory loosely here.
That scientific studies exist that found no significant or any improvement, let alone the wild improvements the manufacturer claims, indicates there is no conclusive proof they work.
If you actually care to learn something valuable and factual, read this Wikipedia entry on scientific method.
