Beltran positive EPO

[jimmypop]

I believe that although doping has not totally disappeared from this year's TDF, there is a different tone.

1. No team is really controlling the race.
2. Strong teams like Clumbia and/or Caisse d'Epargne have been chasing all stages/prizes instead of focusing on final win. What I mean is they all are tapping in the dark, not self confident (hence clean?), and mentality is: As I don't know if others are doping, let's take what we can now...

That's nice and all, but professional cycling lost my eyeballs for good.

Cheating was so prevalent that we can look at average speeds, team strengths and other metadata to determine the relative cleanliness of the sport? No thanks. I'll ride a few times a week, enjoy myself, and leave it at that.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Please note that toughtforfood was respectful to me until I disagreed with him.

No, I called you a ***** for stating that it was proven that Betsy lied. Something that you still have failed to do...maybe you need some training in proving a point or something?

Then he became angry and insulting, because someone thought different than him. Other people have disagreed with me in this thread and have not acted immaturely like he has.

No, I became angry and insulting because you are a ****ing ***** for saying Betsy is a proven liar.

Most of us on this forum are adults and we should be able to disagree without being disrespectful. But thoughtforfood has his own idea of what a "real man" is... And he has clearly shown us the full capacity of his maturity.

Simply because you hide your ******** behind and antiquated sense of propriety makes you an adult why?

What it comes down to is I said there was proof Betsy lied, and he said Lance lied. But I did not start calling him names and insulting him because he called Lance a liar.

I couldn't ****ing care less what your sense of propriety is regarding forum discourse.

Forgive me here, but there is no way in ****ing hell I am going to print a ******** set of lies written by a lying, doping sack of **** like Mr. Armstrong. You will have to refer back to that press release in TF's post should you want to read it. It would cause a reversal in my digestive system, so I will refrain. Suffice to say that Frankie doesn't deny that Lance admitted to doping in the hospital room. Also genius, did you catch that the Dr's testamony to wit you refer was given by a doctor that was not in the room when the statement in question was confirmed by 4 others to have been uttered? Oh, didn't think so.

Once again, it seems to me Betsy couldn't get her story straight. I know most of that was from Lance Armstrong, but the Andreu testimony comes straight from the courtroom.

...and is taken out of context, and isn't referring to the conversation in the hospital room. But you, like Armstrong, Herman, et al don't mind using out of context statements to try to cast doubt on someone when said testamony was not in reference to the point you are making which is that Betsy lied about the conversation in the hospital when Armstrong admitted he used doping products. But hey, why let facts get in the way of making a dishonest piece of propaganda from a lying sack of ****. You don't seem to mind propagating that type of lie though, it seems in character.

And I had no intention of calling Betsy a liar.

Yet you did. If you are blaming me for that, learn some personal responsibility there victim boy.

I was not there. I said there was proof she lied. She acted like she was forced to do what she had done, when alot of it seems to have been of her own free will. Her own husband disclaims some of her statements.

No, you are incorrect in all of that. I refer to the conversation between Ms Andreau and Mr Herman I posted. There are answers a-plenty to those lies.

Anyone got substantial evidence?

Least of all you, *****.

Apparently I have not made it clear enough that these are only my opinions. I do not necesarily think I am right. There seems to be plenty of doubt on both sides of the story. But like you, I chose a side. You shouldn't be bitter just because the side you chose to be on has lost every single battle.

Oh, I am not bitter. I just cannot stand ignorant pieces of doping apologist **** like you because you perpetuate a myth that One Ball won cleanly and had the right to lecture us about "believing in miracles." Again, he has won Pyrrhic victories at best, and interestingly has NEVER sued in an instance that would allow a full investigation of the facts of his doping. Interesting that he never sued over the 6 positives for EPO....wonder why? Oh, because there was EPO in there, that is why.

In summation, **** you dickcheese.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=9y45o_XEWl4&feature=related

That is great. Virenque pulling a camper. Brilliant.

 

[ad9898]

^^^ insults will never win you an argument or any kind of respect, dickcheese i mean come on, its so petty. Argue the point respectfully and you might get somewhere, grow up.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Apparently I have not made it clear enough that these are only my opinions. I do not necesarily think I am right.

Oh, and this was my personal favorite statement. You say that while you only have opinions about the subject, yet you are willing to spread lies about someone even though you have no evidence AT ALL regarding those accusations. I think the problem here is that you came to the fight armed with a set of press releases and you are faced with people who actually know what the **** they are talking about.

Lance lied. That is my opinion. You are a mealy mouthed lying sack of ****. That is my opinion. You hide your lies behind a sense of propriety and use the decorum argument to appear superior, only you are a asshat so I don't really care. That is my opinion. With ALL of the evidence (testamony, phone calls, positive tests, back dated TUE's, SCIENTIFIC STUDIES that show the incredible amount of increase in performance in people using various doping products, the FACT that Armstrong was surrounded by riders and beat riders who were doped to the gills, and rational critical thought) my opinion is that Lance doped. It is also my opinion that someone who relies on press releases by Mr Armstrong and his attorney to make his point is lacking heavily in honesty and critical thinking skills. When said person thorws out an accusation regarding someone involved, yet has no proof of their accusation, my opinion is that person is a ****wit. That is just how I roll.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

In the 99 tour Lance was asked mutiple times if he had a TUE for Cortisone. He answered, often in anger, that he did not. When he tested postive for Cortisone he produced a back dated TUE. He lied

When Dr. Ferrari was convicted of doping riders Lance released a press release saying he was serving his ties with Ferrari. Ferrari continued to be a regular vistor to the hotel around the corner from Lance's apartment in Girona, continued to "coach" him in the Carnary Islands. Lance Lied

On Larry King live Lance said he was able to increase his Hct from 41 to 48.5 by using a oxygen tent. Every study ever done on tents shows that the MAX lance could do would be an increase from 41.5 to 43.5. An increase of that size can only be done with dope. Lance lied.

Four of the people in that Hospital room have said they heard Lance admit to doping, not just Frankie and Betsy. Lance Lied

Shoud I go on? Should I talk about the gal in Thom's office or would that be too personal? If all you can do is cut and paste Armstrong press releases then you clearly have not tried to look further into the liar.

Continue to belive the myth..... it is only 5 months till Christmas, are you excited about Santa Claus too?

Come on. I don't know abouth the girl in Thom's office. You can't lead us on like this and then withhold the good stuff.

 

[thoughtforfood]

^^^ insults will never win you an argument or any kind of respect, dickcheese i mean come on, its so petty. Argue the point respectfully and you might get somewhere, grow up.

If I cared or wanted your opinion, I would have written a solicitus post asking for anyone with an opinion and an asshole to chime in on the subject. Seeing that I didn't, shove it up your ass...dickcheese.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

^^^ insults will never win you an argument or any kind of respect, dickcheese i mean come on, its so petty. Argue the point respectfully and you might get somewhere, grow up.

Dickcheese is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty.

 

[thoughtforfood]

^^^ insults will never win you an argument or any kind of respect, dickcheese i mean come on, its so petty. Argue the point respectfully and you might get somewhere, grow up.

Plus, I am not trying to "win" anything, and my **** is bigger than yours and I have two balls, so I am grown enough.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

Oh, and this was my personal favorite statement. You say that while you only have opinions about the subject, yet you are willing to spread lies about someone even though you have no evidence AT ALL regarding those accusations. I think the problem here is that you came to the fight armed with a set of press releases and you are faced with people who actually know what the **** they are talking about.

Lance lied. That is my opinion. You are a mealy mouthed lying sack of ****. That is my opinion. You hide your lies behind a sense of propriety and use the decorum argument to appear superior, only you are a asshat so I don't really care. That is my opinion. With ALL of the evidence (testamony, phone calls, positive tests, back dated TUE's, SCIENTIFIC STUDIES that show the incredible amount of increase in performance in people using various doping products, the FACT that Armstrong was surrounded by riders and beat riders who were doped to the gills, and rational critical thought) my opinion is that Lance doped. It is also my opinion that someone who relies on press releases by Mr Armstrong and his attorney to make his point is lacking heavily in honesty and critical thinking skills. When said person thorws out an accusation regarding someone involved, yet has no proof of their accusation, my opinion is that person is a ****wit. That is just how I roll.

Why are we getting into this Lance v. Betsy stuff. I mean, Betsy didn't test positive seven times in 1999. I believe Betsy. I also believe Emma O'Reilly and Swart and all the rest.

Was that Ferrari's camper van that Virenque was pulling?

 

[thoughtforfood]

Dickcheese is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

The Piccaso of profanity I am....my mother will be so proud.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Why are we getting into this Lance v. Betsy stuff. I mean, Betsy didn't test positive seven times in 1999. I believe Betsy. I also believe Emma O'Reilly and Swart and all the rest.

Was that Ferrari's camper van that Virenque was pulling?

I don't know, but that was funny as hell. I wish I had watched that earlier. I needed a laugh other than a mocking one I had at the expense of these weasels.

I get ****** when the **** about Betsy is brought up because she is, from all of my contact and reading, quite a sincere and honest person. The idea that she is a jaded starfucker who needs to be in the spotlight is offensive as hell to me. Plus, I like to throw out new profane insults on a daily basis. It keeps the pipes clean.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Why are we getting into this Lance v. Betsy stuff. I mean, Betsy didn't test positive seven times in 1999. I believe Betsy. I also believe Emma O'Reilly and Swart and all the rest.

Was that Ferrari's camper van that Virenque was pulling?

I guess you are right, fighting with people who believe that Dr. Ferrari was paid so highly because he wrote such great training plans can only bring frustration at the denial and ignorance.

 

[Jeff Vader]

Hey ..............moderated.

 

[Jeff Vader]

There is definitely grounds for serious suspicion, but I think that even if Lance did dope I believe he was clean from the 2000 Tour until his retirement, because there were no subsequent questionable tests. I am not going to believe he did drugs unless I have proof. And even though I am an Armstrong fan, I am not going to be partial and ignore any facts or forms of proof that arise. Fair is fair.

This is spot on. If Lance doped he would have been caught. He was the most tested athlete in the world. There is no way he could fool the doping tests. Everybody knows that the only way to dope is to take drugs and every single drug is easily detected in a blood test. Vive la Lance. God bless America and the Republic of Texas.

 

[Ava Marie]

Trek?

What happen, I thought you said "if he were proven a liar I would still accept it" I have given you a short sample of the long list of lies, accept it yet?

So far you have provided no evidence of Betsy not telling the truth. I think it is time you apologize to the nice woman. You easily forget that Frankie, Stephanie, and Bill all agreed with Betsy. You also shouldn't forget what Swart, O'Reilly and Anderson have said as well.

Your hero is a doper. If you got your information from something besides Armstrong press releases you might not have come across as such a fool.....or dickcheese.

 

[Jeff Vader]

"I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance enhancing drugs."

See. He says it right there. No further questions. That is all I need. He is the greatest rider ever.

 

[Jeff Vader]

Well, there it is.

Clearly I stand corrected then. I personally never saw a statement from him go that far, but I also never followed him that closely.

C'Dale is aa lawyer and she knows people don't lie. Right?

 

[thoughtforfood]

See. He says it right there. No further questions. That is all I need. He is the greatest rider ever.

I think he said "performance enhancing rugs" and they just misquoted. He is a well known associate of Dr Ferraralbaba, the magic carpet salesman....he also probably has "stock" in the Hair Club For Men for the day when pretty 16 year olds say "Tour DE what?" He could be referring to either really...

 

[Jeff Vader]

The doctor who treated Lance Armstrong at the Indiana University Medical Center, issued a sworn affidavit:

"Lance Armstrong never admitted, suggested or indicated that he has ever taken performance-enhancing drugs. Had this been disclosed to me, I would have recorded it, or been aware of it, as a pertinent aspect of Lance Armstrong's past medical history as I always do. ... Had I been present at any such 'confession,' I would most certainly have vividly recalled the fact."

Also, it is publicly known that Lance was prescribed EPO and steriods for post-cancer treatment. So maybe the Andreus heard wrong.

Tim Herman, Armstrong's attorney, said:

"Mr. Armstrong was taking steroids at the time, as part of his post-operative treatment. ... It's very possible that there could've been mention of steroids and epo in this conversation with these two doctors indicating either the current regimen, or the regimen that Armstrong was gonna be subject to after this surgery, or when he got out of the hospital."

Armstrong said:

"Ms. Andreu confirmed her ignorance of steroids prescribed as part of my post-operative treatment and of EPO also included in my required post-operative regimen, subjects which could conceivable arisen under the circumstances."

I honestly do not know what to make of all the accusations. All I know is that Lance has never been found guilty. If he really was, how come no one has been able to prove it? Alot of people are talking, but where is the proof?

On the other hand, why would the Andreus lie, since it would bring them no good?

I have a bad feeling about Lemond, as he seems to always be digging around for trouble. He has reason to dislike Armstrong, as Lance took his former title of "greatest American cyclist". And even though Trek owns Lemond's bicycle company, Lance's success has seen a rise in Trek bicycle sales, thus making enviable competition for Lemond now and in the future.

It is important to note that Trek has sued Lemond.

It is also important to note that Lemond issued a tearful public apoplogy to Armstrong after his initial criticism in 2001.

So to answer your question, Lance never admitted that he doped. Betsy Andreu claims she heard Lance discuss drugs he used (With no mention of when).

Do I think Betsy and Frankie are liars?

How would I possibly know? I was not there. I am just another American with access to the media. I have no first hand accounts of anything, so it is logical that I can only go by facts and what is proven.

All the talk and accusations raise my eyebrow and makes me wonder, but I will never call someone a cheat without proof.

Oh boy. This is a conpundrum. Lawyers don't lie either. I don't know what to think. I am going to try not to think about it.