diets and running/fat newbie question



jojo wrote:
> It takes me between 35 & 45 minutes to run/walk my 3 miles
> right now.
>
> jo

What's wrong with that? When I started running after my
second child was born, I decided I didn't care how far I
ran or at what pace. My reason for running was to get in
better shape and have some time to myself. I ran 15 minutes
out and then turned around. Gradually I was going farther
and farther, and I started to increase the time as well. At
my own pace.

I think it is a mistake for beginning runners to focus on
distance and speed. Your goal right now is not , e.g., to
better your PR in a 10K. Your goal is to improve your
fitness. You've got to do this at your own speed, taking
into consideration your weaknesses (asthma in your case).

Donna
 
"runmum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jojo wrote:
> > It takes me between 35 & 45 minutes to run/walk my 3
> > miles right now.
> >
> > jo
>
> What's wrong with that? When I started running after my
> second child was born, I decided I didn't care how far I
> ran or at what pace. My reason for running was to get in
> better shape and have some time to myself. I ran 15
> minutes out and then turned around. Gradually I was going
> farther and farther, and I started to increase the time as
> well. At my own pace.
>
> I think it is a mistake for beginning runners to focus on
> distance and speed. Your goal right now is not , e.g., to
> better your PR in a 10K. Your goal is to improve your
> fitness. You've got to do this at your own speed, taking
> into consideration your weaknesses (asthma in your case).
>
> Donna
>
>

Well, it was actually just a frame of reference for where I
am now. My times will eventually get better, but that will
be a gradual thing. I'm just fine with that. jo
 
In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

> I guess each to their own. Not to get into a diet war but
> you sound like an Atkinite with all refined carbs are
> junk. If you want to
[...]
> I drink fruit juices for fluids and they are many times
> better than soda even with the evil sucrose. I don't
> like water my choices are dehydration or fruit juice.
> I'm not having a weight problem and so the sugar is a
> non problem for me.

Doug, it's a matter of perspective and goals. For an
endurance athlete who needs a high carb intake to maintain
a fairly substantial training load, and I'd call anything
above 30mpw fairly substantial -- it is entirely
appropriate to make use of high GI carbs, in fact for some
of us, it is absolutely *necessary* otherwise we have
recovery problems. A competitive endurance athlete with a
high caloric expenditure does not want a weight loss diet,
they want a weight maintenance diet, and that requires a
lot of calories.

For such a person, about the only requirement diet-wise is
adequate intake of carbs and protein, and just a little
discipline in eating.

But the picture is substantially different for someone
trying to lose weight.

> If one is having a weight problem eliminate simple sugars
> by passing on the junk food. If that does not do the job
> you can then aim for for some refined foods.

Why do so in that order anyway ? What is it about
fruit juice that makes it substantially better than a
can of coke ?

It actually makes sense to *reduce* (but not necessarily
eliminate) both, in terms of both frequency of consumption
(for junk food) and portion sizes
(e.g. reduce portion sizes of both refined carbs and
"junk food")

>> Most of those calories are either fructose or sucrose
>
> So all sucrose is evil?

It's not "evil", it's just not a very good source of
calories for someone who is trying to lose weight.

>> I'm not sure what aspect of fruit juice you consider
>> "healthy".
>
> Because I need fluids to live and a little sucrose is not
> a problem for many of us, since it keeps me hydrated I
> find that healthy.

By the same argument, caffeine-free soda is "healthy".

> So what fluids do you drink during the day?

Diet soda, protein shakes (2 a day), water.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

> I guess each to their own. Not to get into a diet war but
> you sound like an Atkinite with all refined carbs are
> junk. If you want to
[...]
> I drink fruit juices for fluids and they are many times
> better than soda even with the evil sucrose. I don't
> like water my choices are dehydration or fruit juice.
> I'm not having a weight problem and so the sugar is a
> non problem for me.

Doug, it's a matter of perspective and goals. For an
endurance athlete who needs a high carb intake to maintain
a fairly substantial training load, and I'd call anything
above 30mpw fairly substantial -- it is entirely
appropriate to make use of high GI carbs, in fact for some
of us, it is absolutely *necessary* otherwise we have
recovery problems. A competitive endurance athlete with a
high caloric expenditure does not want a weight loss diet,
they want a weight maintenance diet, and that requires a
lot of calories.

For such a person, about the only requirement diet-wise is
adequate intake of carbs and protein, and just a little
discipline in eating.

But the picture is substantially different for someone
trying to lose weight.

> If one is having a weight problem eliminate simple sugars
> by passing on the junk food. If that does not do the job
> you can then aim for for some refined foods.

Why do so in that order anyway ? What is it about
fruit juice that makes it substantially better than a
can of coke ?

It actually makes sense to *reduce* (but not necessarily
eliminate) both, in terms of both frequency of consumption
(for junk food) and portion sizes
(e.g. reduce portion sizes of both refined carbs and
"junk food")

>> Most of those calories are either fructose or sucrose
>
> So all sucrose is evil?

It's not "evil", it's just not a very good source of
calories for someone who is trying to lose weight.

>> I'm not sure what aspect of fruit juice you consider
>> "healthy".
>
> Because I need fluids to live and a little sucrose is not
> a problem for many of us, since it keeps me hydrated I
> find that healthy.

By the same argument, caffeine-free soda is "healthy".

> So what fluids do you drink during the day?

Diet soda, protein shakes (2 a day), water.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

>
> Doug, it's a matter of perspective and goals. For an
> endurance athlete who needs a high carb intake to maintain
> a fairly substantial training load, and I'd call anything
> above 30mpw fairly substantial -- it is entirely
> appropriate to make use of high GI carbs,

Hi GI carbs? How about carbs, period. For most experienced
runners GI is a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

> But the picture is substantially different for someone
> trying to lose weight.

I kind of agree but I had taken your statements in general
and not to those losing weight.

> Why do so in that order anyway ? What is it about
> fruit juice that makes it substantially better than a
> can of coke ?

My instinct says squeeze some fruit and add some water is a
hell of lot better than soda. You actually think an
orange/cranberry/grapfruit/etc and some water is the same as
a soda? That's like saying a whole orange followed by glass
of water is the same as a Coke. I find them light years
different.

> Diet soda, protein shakes (2 a day), water.

Diet soda is colored water with and aftertaste. Why protein
shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
I (perhaps wrongly) inferred that you thought there was
something deficient in your performance and were complaining
about it. Pace being "only" 10-11, for example, seems to
indicate dissatisfaction with it. And I don't think your
times are all that bad!

But then, I'm one of those slowpokes at the back of the pack
(or the bottom of the results list). bj

"jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "bj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > As for the running...I'm not really a beginner
> > > mentally. I'm running
> 11-12
> > minute pace with walking in between... . My 'average'
> > pace when I am in
> good
> > condition is only 10-11. I can hold that pace for 6-8
> > miles when I am in good shape.
> > >
> > > It takes me between 35 & 45 minutes to run/walk my 3
> > > miles right now.
> > >
> >
> > What's wrong with any of these? bj
> >
> >
> I'm not sure I understand what you are asking? jojo
 
In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
>
>
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
>>
>> Doug, it's a matter of perspective and goals. For an
>> endurance athlete who needs a high carb intake to
>> maintain a fairly substantial training load, and I'd call
>> anything above 30mpw fairly substantial -- it is entirely
>> appropriate to make use of high GI carbs,
>
> Hi GI carbs? How about carbs, period. For most experienced
> runners GI is a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Yes, I meant that it's an issue for people who are concerned
about their caloric intake.

>> But the picture is substantially different for someone
>> trying to lose weight.
>
> I kind of agree but I had taken your statements in general
> and not to those losing weight.

Sorry, should have been more specific.

>> Why do so in that order anyway ? What is it about
>> fruit juice that makes it substantially better than a
>> can of coke ?
>
> My instinct says squeeze some fruit and add some water is
> a hell of lot better than soda.

Yes, if you're drinking freshly squeezed fruit juice. But
this wasn't the impression I had.

Either way, instincts can be deceptive.

> You actually think an orange/cranberry/grapfruit/etc and
> some water is the same as a soda?

Macronutrient-wise, it's not substantially different. Both
have a lot of fructose, some glucose, no dietary fiber, and
no impact on appetite. For someone who cares about avoiding
unnecessary calories, that's all that needs to be said. Micronutrient-
wise, the fruit juice just has a little vitamin C.

> That's like saying a whole orange followed by glass of
> water is the same as a Coke.

A whole orange followed by a glass of water is NOT the same
as a glass of processed orange juice.

>> Diet soda, protein shakes (2 a day), water.
>
> Diet soda is colored water with and aftertaste.

Yep. And no calories.

> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?

Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
"bj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I (perhaps wrongly) inferred that you thought there was
> something
deficient
> in your performance and were complaining about it. Pace
> being "only"
10-11,
> for example, seems to indicate dissatisfaction with it.
> And I don't think your times are all that bad!

My normal pace is 11 for a 5K and running the whole time.
That's fine with me...I know it's back of the pack, but hey,
It's fun back here!
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Doug Freese

>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>
> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.

I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
balanced diet.

They day I confuse a protein shake with a normal
balanced diet is the day I'm getting fed through a tube
up my nose. ;-)

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Doug Freese

>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>
> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.

I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
balanced diet.

They day I confuse a protein shake with a normal
balanced diet is the day I'm getting fed through a tube
up my nose. ;-)

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tim Downie wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Doug Freese
>
>>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>>
>> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
>> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.
>
> I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
> balanced diet.

What do you mean by "normal" ? How is refined whey not
"normal" ? Other food produced at the same venue, such as
cheese (often heavily processed) no doubt is presumed
"normal", as are other refined macronutrient foods (like
white sugar, white flour, and the most egregious offender,
high fructose corn syrup), so why not whey ? Does your
ignorance of the manufacturing process dictate that the food
is "abnormal" ?

Anyway, I'd agree that my diet isn't "normal". I don't eat
meat, and I have no plans to. I eat other protein rich foods
instead, like whey powder. I couldn't

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tim Downie wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Doug Freese
>
>>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>>
>> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
>> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.
>
> I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
> balanced diet.

What do you mean by "normal" ? How is refined whey not
"normal" ? Other food produced at the same venue, such as
cheese (often heavily processed) no doubt is presumed
"normal", as are other refined macronutrient foods (like
white sugar, white flour, and the most egregious offender,
high fructose corn syrup), so why not whey ? Does your
ignorance of the manufacturing process dictate that the food
is "abnormal" ?

Anyway, I'd agree that my diet isn't "normal". I don't eat
meat, and I have no plans to. I eat other protein rich foods
instead, like whey powder. I couldn't

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tim Downie wrote:
>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Doug Freese
>>
>>>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>>>
>>> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
>>> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.
>>
>> I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
>> balanced diet.
>
> What do you mean by "normal" ? How is refined whey not
> "normal" ?

Come on Donovan, lighten up a bit. It was a *joke*. Do you
have to take everything so bl**dy seriously?

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or
http://www.justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK tax payer.
 
eat balance bars. i lost 20 lbs in 2 mos eating them, and i
wasn't really even trying to lose weight. i think it's the
iodine in them that does it
 
>eat balance bars. i lost 20 lbs in 2 mos eating them, and i
>wasn't really even trying to lose weight. i think it's the
>iodine in them that does it

Then why not just take iodine/kelp supplements?
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:48:24 -0000, "Tim Downie"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Come on Donovan, lighten up a bit. It was a *joke*. Do you
>have to take everything so bl**dy seriously?

Tim, he's lived in Melbourne. At the city gates they insist
on a complete excision of your sense of humour before
permitting entry.
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:10:14 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
<[email protected]> wrote:

>``Good sense of humour'': laughs at my shitty jokes

Oh, c'mon, precious. If you weren't so sensitive about being
a whey-eating veggie from upside-down land, none of this
would have happened, would it?
 
In article <[email protected]>, Carlos Jones wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:48:24 -0000, "Tim Downie"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Come on Donovan, lighten up a bit. It was a *joke*. Do you
>>have to take everything so bl**dy seriously?
>
> Tim, he's lived in Melbourne. At the city gates they
> insist on a complete excision of your sense of humour
> before permitting entry.

idiom de jour:

``Good sense of humour'': laughs at my shitty jokes

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tim Downie wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Tim Downie wrote:
>>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Doug Freese
>>>
>>>>> Why protein shakes, don't you eat a balanced diet?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the protein shakes are part of that diet. Protein
>>>> shakes are an economical and tasty form of protein.
>>>
>>> I could be wrong but I think Doug meant *normal*
>>> balanced diet.
>>
>> What do you mean by "normal" ? How is refined whey not
>> "normal" ?
>
> Come on Donovan, lighten up a bit. It was a *joke*. Do you
> have to take everything so bl**dy seriously?

Sorry, could you fill me in on where the joke is ? I don't
see anything clever or ironic in there. I think you were
just ridiculing my food choices, which is

you hide behind the "where's your sense of humour" ********.
Sorry, I do take my food choices (especially being
vegetarian) damn seriously, and if you wish to use this as
fodder for a laugh at my expense, I'm not going to laugh at
all, I'm just going to tell you to shove it.

HTH,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:28:53 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm just going to tell you to shove it.

You don't like our anaesthetist from Ayr, do you? I'd noted
a certain snippiness in your posts to young Timmy before.
Now it appears the lacy gloves are off and it's handbags at
dawn for the pair of you.

I think you should settle this spat on the basis of a 15
mile run - one in Ayr and one in NYC - timed and verified by
a fellow rec.runner. The fastest is the good guy, the
slowest the ******. Simple as that.

I volunteer my services to act as Tim's second/timer. I
presume Global/Andrew/Mr Crazy Divorcee will do the same for
you. Name the date, you Ozzie-poopmiester.
 
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