Do I really have to wear a helmet while cycling in Victoria?



D

Donga

Guest
raisethe wrote:
> raisethe wrote:
>
> Many thanks for the wide range of responses. I hadn't thought of the
> sunburnt neck issue, although I have a sunhat from my last trip.
>
> What exactly is a fold-up raffia bucket hat?
>
> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at that
> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
>
> Perhaps I'll risk it without one and see how it goes - I can always
> play the dumb tourist if stopped by the police. Mind you, having
> already been fleeced once having to buy an Aussie visa, I don't really
> fancy giving your government any more bucks in the form of a fine!
>
> (To avoid abusive replies, I would point out that I am more than happy
> to spend plenty in your shops, motels, bars etc).


Mate, if you're a bloke and you're wearing a fold-up raffia bucket hat,
you won't have to do any extra to play the dumb tourist! Except a nice
Laura Ashley hat band - that would do the trick. ;-)

Donga
 

MikeyOz

New Member
Aug 12, 2003
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raisethe said:
raisethe wrote:
Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at that
speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.

Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
raisethe said:
raisethe wrote:

Many thanks for the wide range of responses. I hadn't thought of the
sunburnt neck issue, although I have a sunhat from my last trip.

What exactly is a fold-up raffia bucket hat?

I meant two different hats that I may carry around (depends what gets stuffed into crumpler or the pannier), that are put on *after* getting off the bike, I should of made that point clearer.

spare foldup raffia/bucket hat

Fig 1: Raffia Hat
http://www.millerhats.com/productimages/241.jpg

Fig 2: Bucket Hat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_hat
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:11:28 +1100
MikeyOz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> raisethe Wrote:
>> raisethe wrote:
>> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
>> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
>> that
>> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
>>

>
> Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
> poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.
>


Well I know my helmet won't protect me if my head and a solid object
get friendly at more than about 8mph, so if I headbutt a car I'm dead
meat anyway.

I've ridden with and without, fallen off with and without, so far I
haven't had head hit anything.

I wore one sometimes before they were compulsory, sometimes not. If
they were not compulsory I dunno I'd wear one. I also expect that if
I was hit by a car then I'd have a hell of a lot more to worry about
than the hope that a lid would save my life given the combination of
circumstances needed for a head injury to be the only life-threatening
thiing to happen yet for it to happen at a slow enough head/car
intersection velocity for the helmet to work.

But that's me, you are at liberty to think I'm foolish as long as you
allow me the liberty to consider you so.

Zebee
 
E

Euan

Guest
MikeyOz wrote:
> raisethe Wrote:
>> raisethe wrote:
>> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
>> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
>> that
>> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
>>

>
> Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
> poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.


Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
rude shock.
--
Cheers
Euan
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Well I know my helmet won't protect me if my head and a solid object
> get friendly at more than about 8mph, so if I headbutt a car I'm dead
> meat anyway.


If the car and your head meet directly then you are dogmeat,
granted. But I can think of a lot of scenarios where the helmet
could make all the difference. For instance, you bounce across
the bonnet and your head collides with the windscreen, you are
knocked off your bike by a glancing blow and hit the road head
first, etc.

> I've ridden with and without, fallen off with and without, so far I
> haven't had head hit anything.


I have, and I was glad to have the helmet.

Given that you ride a bent, I would imagine you are more
likely to take a hit directly on the head if the car hits you.
If you hit the car (or anything else) it is probably going to
be feet first. I guess the helmet is less likely to be useful
in either of these situations.
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on 19 Nov 2006 23:38:11 -0800
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> Well I know my helmet won't protect me if my head and a solid object
>> get friendly at more than about 8mph, so if I headbutt a car I'm dead
>> meat anyway.

>
> If the car and your head meet directly then you are dogmeat,
> granted. But I can think of a lot of scenarios where the helmet
> could make all the difference. For instance, you bounce across
> the bonnet and your head collides with the windscreen, you are
> knocked off your bike by a glancing blow and hit the road head
> first, etc.
>


Absolutely. I have, after all, been in a motorcycle crash where I hit
my head and lived, albeit with some permanent damage.

I figure people can decide for themselves what they thnk the danger
level is. What I object to is the concept that a helmet will always
save you, that if you fall off without one you will always be hurt,
and that anyone who doesn't wear one is stupid or suicidal.

I think there are a number of situations where a helmet can save you
from damage. I think there are, on a bicycle, very few where they will
save you from serious head injury and even fewer where they will save
you from death.

But for minor shunts they'll save your scalp from tearing and quite
possibly make damage like mine into almost un-noticeable. Whether a
bicycle helmet would have protected me from my less than 20kmh over the
bars incident is unknown and unknowable.

after all, I don't know if a different lid would have protected me better,
what would have happened with no lid, or pretty well anything, and I'm
not about to repeat the experiment in a spirit of scientific enquiry.

I figure adults should be able to make their own decisions, and allow
other adults the same without the name calling and predictions of
doom.

I'm happy to wear a motorcycle helmet, although I have ridden without
and liked it. I'm less happy to wear a bicycle helmet although I do so
most of the time. I think they are effective in some situations but by
no means as many as advocates seem to say.

And I will be impressed by helmet advocates who wear bicycle helmets
when riding in a car, given the largest single reason to be in a head
injury ward in this country is a car crash....

But not impressed by ones who go on about how a cyclist who doesn't
wear one is obviously a candidate for a Darwin award but who are bare
headed in cars.

Zebee
 

coppershark

New Member
Feb 19, 2004
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0
Some dude wrote:

>Be aware though, that there have been a few instances where the police let down a
cyclist's tyres in addition to or instead of issuing a fine - and
confiscated the pump with instructions to pick it up from the cop shop
next day.

Cripes, that used to be the go many years ago for cycling at night without lights when I was a kid in Sarf Efrica. Very effective.

Mike
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-11-20, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> In aus.bicycle on 19 Nov 2006 23:38:11 -0800
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> Well I know my helmet won't protect me if my head and a solid object
>>> get friendly at more than about 8mph, so if I headbutt a car I'm dead
>>> meat anyway.

>>
>> If the car and your head meet directly then you are dogmeat,
>> granted. But I can think of a lot of scenarios where the helmet
>> could make all the difference. For instance, you bounce across
>> the bonnet and your head collides with the windscreen, you are
>> knocked off your bike by a glancing blow and hit the road head
>> first, etc.

>
> Absolutely. I have, after all, been in a motorcycle crash where I hit
> my head and lived, albeit with some permanent damage.


My head must be heavy -- it keeps hitting the tarmac/tire-iron first
:)

And it didn't affect me at all!

> I figure people can decide for themselves what they thnk the danger
> level is. What I object to is the concept that a helmet will always
> save you, that if you fall off without one you will always be hurt,
> and that anyone who doesn't wear one is stupid or suicidal.


And the big one, IMNSHO, that if you are involved in a crash, and you
weren't wearing a helmet, you had it coming to you and are
automatically at fault.

We've all read the newspaper reports that state "a bicycle collided
with a car this morning. The cyclist died, but the driver is
uninjured.", with "The cyclist was not wearing a helmet." being the
very last thing in the article, presented as the final word on the
issue.

> I think there are a number of situations where a helmet can save you
> from damage.


I reckon I've been in a few of these. My head must be heavy -- it
keeps hitting the tarmac/tire-iron first :)

And it didn't affect me at all!

> I think there are, on a bicycle, very few where they will
> save you from serious head injury and even fewer where they will save
> you from death.
>
> But for minor shunts they'll save your scalp from tearing and quite
> possibly make damage like mine into almost un-noticeable. Whether a
> bicycle helmet would have protected me from my less than 20kmh over the
> bars incident is unknown and unknowable.


They're very handy when you get ejected over the bars, land face
first, and only the top very front portion of the helmet shows any
signs of scrapes. Thanks helmet. Thanks a lot. Good thing my nose
and teeth protected the rest of me, eh? My head must be heavy -- it
keeps hitting the tarmac/tire-iron first :)

And it didn't affect me at all!

--
TimC
"This company performed an illegal operation but they will not be shut
down." -- Scott Harshbarger from consumer lobby group on Microsoft
 
A

Absent Husband

Guest
Abby's final word:

1. Just get the fsck over it. Wear a helmet. Do we really have to talk
about this over & over & over again?!?!

2. Seriously, just get the fsck over it. Wear the fscking helmet.

3. And to the original poster - welcome to Australia!!! :D

Cheers,
Abby
 
D

dave

Guest
Euan wrote:
> MikeyOz wrote:
>> raisethe Wrote:
>>> raisethe wrote:
>>> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
>>> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
>>> that
>>> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
>>>

>>
>> Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
>> poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.

>
> Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
> going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
> rude shock.



Reminds me of demonstrating to a mate who had just become a copper why
hiding behind a car door to evade gunfire would not work. (Take one
car wreck. Shoot hole thru it. Be amazed that some tin did not stop a
bullet)

The world is full of optimists. This one does always amaze me though.
Its just so obvious that if you can punch a hole in something a car
smacking it at 60 kph might do the same (or even more) damage.

Dave
 
F

Friday

Guest
dave wrote:
> Euan wrote:
>> MikeyOz wrote:
>>> raisethe Wrote:
>>>> raisethe wrote:
>>>> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
>>>> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
>>>> that
>>>> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
>>>>
>>> Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
>>> poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.

>> Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
>> going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
>> rude shock.

>
>
> Reminds me of demonstrating to a mate who had just become a copper why
> hiding behind a car door to evade gunfire would not work. (Take one
> car wreck. Shoot hole thru it. Be amazed that some tin did not stop a
> bullet)
>
> The world is full of optimists. This one does always amaze me though.
> Its just so obvious that if you can punch a hole in something a car
> smacking it at 60 kph might do the same (or even more) damage.
>
> Dave


That's a pretty sad statement. Around the world millions or workers wear
safety helmets helmets, soldiers wear kevlar vests to stop bullets.
People wear protective equipment because it works. Just the other day a
female security officer in Perth was hit with a fence picket and the
radio she was wearing took the brunt of the blow saving her from serious
injury. You need to get out in the real world a bit more. Obviously
nothing will stop all of the force but a small reduction in energy goes
a long way in reducing damage.
 
R

raisethe

Guest
Absent Husband wrote:
> Abby's final word:
>
> 1. Just get the fsck over it. Wear a helmet. Do we really have to talk
> about this over & over & over again?!?!
>
> 2. Seriously, just get the fsck over it. Wear the fscking helmet.
>
> 3. And to the original poster - welcome to Australia!!! :D
>



Er, thanks.
 
P

Plodder

Guest
--
Frank
[email protected]
Drop DACKS to reply
"Euan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> MikeyOz wrote:
> > raisethe Wrote:
> >> raisethe wrote:
> >> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
> >> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
> >> that
> >> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
> >>

> >
> > Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
> > poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.

>
> Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
> going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
> rude shock.
> --
> Cheers
> Euan


Shouldn't this argument have a :p ?

Very daft argument, really. A lot like, "A seatbelt won't save me in a
head-on collision with a road train, so I won't bother wearing one -
seatbelts are useless." I've also heard (too often) "I reckon you should
wear a helmet when MTBing but they're useless on the road" Why? I can slip
and fall on the road too. If I hit a railway line or manhole cover in the
wet it can get dodgy. My helmet can *mitigate* damage, not necessarily
eliminate risk.

Personally, I wear my lid to protect me from the small stuff... low speed,
silly mistake, miss a curb, slips, etc. I don't wear my lid to protect me
from one tonne plus impacts, meteorite strikes, and so-on. It won't work.

Helmets do work for the small stuff and I have enough dings and scratches on
my lids to be pleased the same damage is not on my head.

Nuff...

me
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-11-20, raisethe (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Absent Husband wrote:
>> Abby's final word:
>>
>> 1. Just get the fsck over it. Wear a helmet. Do we really have to talk
>> about this over & over & over again?!?!
>>
>> 2. Seriously, just get the fsck over it. Wear the fscking helmet.
>>
>> 3. And to the original poster - welcome to Australia!!! :D

>
> Er, thanks.


And be careful of the dropbears, OK?

--
TimC
It's funny, isn't it? All this antiterrorist legislation makes ordinary
law-abiding citizens want to blow up politicians. -- Mark South on ARK
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Friday wrote:

> That's a pretty sad statement. Around the world millions or workers
> wear safety helmets helmets, soldiers wear kevlar vests to stop
> bullets. People wear protective equipment because it works. Just the
> other day a female security officer in Perth was hit with a fence
> picket and the radio she was wearing took the brunt of the blow
> saving her from serious injury. You need to get out in the real world
> a bit more. Obviously nothing will stop all of the force but a small
> reduction in energy goes a long way in reducing damage.


I'm going to have to get a me a radio. How do I attach it to my head? :)

Theo
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
Plodder wrote:

> Helmets do work for the small stuff and I have enough dings and
> scratches on my lids to be pleased the same damage is not on my head.


You wear one when you are most at risk to head injuries then? In the car.

Theo
 

EuanB

New Member
Jan 11, 2005
877
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Plodder said:
--
Frank
[email protected]
Drop DACKS to reply
"Euan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> MikeyOz wrote:
> > raisethe Wrote:
> >> raisethe wrote:
> >> Without wishing to re-ignite the helmet debate, I would just point out
> >> that I only cycle at 8 mph, hardly faster than a ped, so a fall at
> >> that
> >> speed is unlikely to result in a head first landing.
> >>

> >
> > Except if something going a lot faster hits YOU, but like a previous
> > poster alluded to..... Darwins Theory at work.

>
> Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
> going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
> rude shock.
> --
> Cheers
> Euan


Shouldn't this argument have a :p ?

Very daft argument, really.
Not if you understand why helmet compulsion was introduced in Australia.

Helmet compulsion was introduced because cyclists are dying on the roads. The arguement was that making all cyclists wear helmets would mitigate that risk.

Plodder said:
Personally, I wear my lid to protect me from the small stuff... low speed,
silly mistake, miss a curb, slips, etc. I don't wear my lid to protect me
from one tonne plus impacts, meteorite strikes, and so-on. It won't work.
You concede that in the event of a collision with a car a helmet's pretty much useless, yet that's the very reason that helmet compulsion came about. Ergo helmet compulsion is stupid.

It's worse than that though because there are people out there who conciously or sub-conciously believe that a helmet will protect them in the event of a collision with a motor vehicle. This may lead to risk compensation on the part of the cyclist or other road users and may increase the danger to cyclists in general. Recent contentious research in the UK supports that theory.

That's why although I will not get in to anti-compulsion arguements, there's not point, I do make an effort to educate others so that they will wear their helmets but not necessarily use them.
 

MikeyOz

New Member
Aug 12, 2003
942
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Euan said:
Darwin's theory meaning that anyone who thinks a polystyrene hat is
going to make any difference when one tonne plus hits them is in for a
rude shock.

Oh ok then so when I got cleaned up by a car while I was doing 30kph and don't know what the car was doing, and I ended up hitting the bonnet, smashing the windscreen, denting the roof and then rolling off and falling onto the ground with my bit of polystyreme smashed into 4 bits, but I had no concussion, no bruising, cuts on my head, it did nothing for me ???

by the way do you wear a helmet if so, what the hell for ?
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
MikeyOz said:
Oh ok then so when I got cleaned up by a car while I was doing 30kph and don't know what the car was doing, and I ended up hitting the bonnet, smashing the windscreen, denting the roof and then rolling off and falling onto the ground with my bit of polystyreme smashed into 4 bits, but I had no concussion, no bruising, cuts on my head, it did nothing for me ???

by the way do you wear a helmet if so, what the hell for ?

Ditto, almost exactly a year ago I had a nasty stack, where the first point of contact after flying over the handlebars, was my head. Then my ribcage, then left elbow, right knee etc. Noggin fine, other bits not so ok. I wear a helmet due to many reasons, but also wear gloves, shoes etc for much similar reasons.
 

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