Lance Armstrong Won't Fight Usada Charges



Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

So, here is my next leading question.

What would it take for you to regain, if not respect for Lance, at least blunt your hatred of him?

Obviously a confession, despite numerous posts to the contrary, isn't enough. Yes, many of you are now qualifying how that confession would have to take place, but I seriously doubt even then it would matter.

Reconciliation with those he has hurt/bullied/defamed/slandered? Those people publicly coming out and forgiving him?

There are people in the world who have done much worse and sought redemption, but perhaps lack of redemption is to be his punishment.

I still think back to that rainy morning near Baltimore and the impact he had on those people who not only lined the roads to see him, but the group of cancer survivors he raced with. Say it was self-serving all you want, and I won't necessarily disagree with you, but it still had that impact. It would be really nice to get that back in the world.
while i object to your painting this as a hatred for armstrong, i have to ask why you feel this is his confession? how is this not another attempt at swaying public opinion, like his and his followers bleating about witch-hunts ad nauseum? won't you agree a more productive confession would have taken place under oath before a sporting agency? won't you agree that his actions--the stalling of the hearing using the federal courts, his brassy twitter posts before the report was made public, his secret meetings attempting to broker cut-price settlements--suggest nothing close to confession, but more resemble another public relations attempt. i grant not having seen the interview, but must point out that armstrong has gone to the well once too often merit any benefit of the doubt.
 
Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"And these attempted insults..."

Insults? No way. I never would stoop to insulting the infirm and mentally challenged. It was just a reasoned explanation using the facts as best we know them. The fact that your brain was subjected to years and years of damaging decelerations, brutal rebounding slams resulting in brain bleeds/hematoma, stunting blows, incapacitating impacts in a barbaric sport based on destroying body and mind is a sad testimony on what some lads feel they have to put themselves thru. I can only have pity for you and hope the Ali Fund will at least cover the cost of your meds. As your synapses continue to decrease firing frequency I can only hope your last cogent thoughts will be of me...yer pal and BFF.


Lancer had Orca on the rivet!

"Oprah...was “mesmerized and riveted by some of his answers.”"

Outstanding! This is going to be the most sophisticated, professionized and successful interview since Orca gave away the Cadillacs!

"Armstrong was believed to have left for Hawaii."

Aloha, Lancer! Do you have some time to look for a birth cert while you're enjoying life?
LOL! What you STILL sore about? The **** kicking I've been giving you all these years? My lack of contrition for said **** booting?
As I said to your brother - Saving face? Why? You're anonomous. You're nothing more than pseudonymistic screen name.
The anonomous bigoted 'Never Was' rides again...Viva Lancer!
 
"What you STILL sore about? The **** kicking I've been giving you all these years? My lack of contrition for said **** booting?"

Poor Tone Loco...the degenerative brain disease has progressed faster than the doctors had anticipated. Lance...focus. Lance...focus.

"As I said to your brother - Saving face? Why? You're anonomous. You're nothing more than pseudonymistic screen name."

Tone, chill man. The NFL Adderall will kick in and you can focus on Lance. Lance...focus. Lance...focus.

And please wear your helmet.

Kind regards,
Yer pseudonymistic screen name pal & BFF, CampyBob


http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/breaking/187109211.html?id=187109211
"And it's not only us," he added, "he's ruined a lot of people's lives."

Tell us how Lance ruined your lives. Let's hear all the details and please...feel free to use the doll to show us where Lance hurt you.

Meanwhile, Lancer is in Hawaii having fun!


 
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=11110&status=True&catname=Latest News

"And pretty much all the media were the same – many of whom tended to go easy on him when controversy arose, or even looked the other way, because Lance was good for business. Access to Lance meant more page views, more banners clicked, and more magazines sold."

The sentiment that started the Lance juggernaut snowball in the first place, and continues to this day - albeit for other reasons entirely. The sleazy marriage of politics and capitalism in its full glory...
 
jpwkeeper said:
So, here is my next leading question. What would it take for you to regain, if not respect for Lance, at least blunt your hatred of him? Obviously a confession, despite numerous posts to the contrary, isn't enough.  Yes, many of you are now qualifying how that confession would have to take place, but I seriously doubt even then it would matter. Reconciliation with those he has hurt/bullied/defamed/slandered?  Those people publicly coming out and forgiving him? There are people in the world who have done much worse and sought redemption, but perhaps lack of redemption is to be his punishment. I still think back to that rainy morning near Baltimore and the impact he had on those people who not only lined the roads to see him, but the group of cancer survivors he raced with.  Say it was self-serving all you want, and I won't necessarily disagree with you, but it still had that impact.  It would be really nice to get that back in the world.
A lot of his actions had impact, and we're seeing that now. Let's not give too much credit to what he's done for cancer. He in the form of Livestrong has never put much money at all into research. It's not absolutely clear what his relationship to his cancer charity really was. He has allowed cancer patients to support him in feeding his ego. As for all the good he's done, he's been no Robin Hood, so we can forget about anything altruistic having happened. He certainly didn't actually do much at all for cancer patients. The people at Livestrong did whatever good Livestrong has done. All Armstrong provided was a face, a fictional character. How do you separate his "charitable" image from his real self? How do you separate the charitable Carlos Lederer from his real self? There's no doubt he also had a big impact on some of the impoverished people in his community. The answer it doesn't matter what impact he had. There is no balance scale
 
danfoz said:
I'm sure like many on the forum I don't hate him, I never even met the guy. He seems to have acted like a genuine ass to folks who didn't deserve it. All we know is what we hear in the media. The next question begs the subtle difference between truth and honesty. While Lance may now be truthful, he is not being honest - I'd really need to see the Oprah bit to offer an informed pov. I would guess most non-cycling folks don't know about the minutia (O'Reilly, the Andreus, etc.) but the devil is really in the details. From what I know so far, his "confession" seems to be geared toward those people. Some people see the world in black and white, good and evil, others see it in grey's with the knowledge that many of us are capable of many different behaviors. I would ride with the acknowledged cheater Jan Ulrich any day of the week, and then I'd buy him a beer afterward. I may have done the same for Lance if he didn't have a penchant for calling women who disagreed with him whores. If he publically aknowledged that behavior as reprehensible and apologized to Emma O'Reilly and the others he has bullied, I'd revisit. I like to keep the company of mindful, friendly and polite folks. When I was a teenager I had the propensity and capacity to hang out with douchbags. Life is too short for that these days.
Well put.
 
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/cavendish-martin-and-holm-address-doping-scandals-at-omega-pharma-launch_271626

Excerpted:

The 50-year-old Holm admitted he doped during his time with the former Telekom team, where he raced from 1993-1997, and has since become known for his candid remarks about the sport’s troubles.
Holm, who survived a bout with cancer in 2004, later served as a sport director at High Road before switching to Quick Step last season. He admits in some ways that cycling is getting its just rewards.
“There was a lot of **** in cycling. We deserve it,” he said. “(Doping) was part of the game in those days. It’s better to talk about it. Some people don’t want to talk about it, but we have to in order to move on. I hate all that **** with cheating.”
Holm said he understands why people are hesitant about giving today’s cyclists the benefit of a doubt, but added it’s unfair for the media and fans to paint such riders as Cavendish and world time trial champion Tony Martin with the same brush as earlier cheaters.
“Cycling has changed a lot. It’s a different sport than even five years ago,” he said. “I know that (Mark) Cavendish is clean. I would put my hand on the Bible to say Tony (Martin) is clean. I believe (Bradley) Wiggins won the Tour clean.”

Very interesting comments from Holm. I like how he made the admission of "We deserve it (current skepticism surrounding Pro Cycling)". Couldn't be closer to the truth there. Talks about clean riders - funny how he doesn't even mention the other star within his own squad, Tom Boonen. Hmmmm.....
 
Originally Posted by slovakguy .

while i object to your painting this as a hatred for armstrong, i have to ask why you feel this is his confession? how is this not another attempt at swaying public opinion, like his and his followers bleating about witch-hunts ad nauseum? won't you agree a more productive confession would have taken place under oath before a sporting agency? won't you agree that his actions--the stalling of the hearing using the federal courts, his brassy twitter posts before the report was made public, his secret meetings attempting to broker cut-price settlements--suggest nothing close to confession, but more resemble another public relations attempt. i grant not having seen the interview, but must point out that armstrong has gone to the well once too often merit any benefit of the doubt.
It is a confession by definition. You can question the motives, which is really the point, but it is a confession. It holds no more or less weight with me if he confesses on Oprah or if he confesses in front of the USADA honestly since I'm not a member of USADA, WADA, or UCI. In fact Oprah may be a better forum for him to confess and apologize to me than the latter example.

It very well may be just a PR stunt, but that isn't the crux of my question. What would sway you? Would you soften your stance if it wasn't a PR stunt?

So said another way, what could Lance do, either via this interview, some other interview, or something else, that would soften your stance toward him? Try to exclude what you think he's trying to do now; I want to know what you WANT him to do, not what you think he is actually doing.

This question has importance that goes WAY beyond Lance himself as it speaks to how anyone can get redemption or forgiveness in our lives. And no I'm not talking religion here, I'm talking redemption among our fellow humans.
 
Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

It is a confession by definition. You can question the motives, which is really the point, but it is a confession. It holds no more or less weight with me if he confesses on Oprah or if he confesses in front of the USADA honestly since I'm not a member of USADA, WADA, or UCI. In fact Oprah may be a better forum for him to confess and apologize to me than the latter example.

It very well may be just a PR stunt, but that isn't the crux of my question. What would sway you? Would you soften your stance if it wasn't a PR stunt?

So said another way, what could Lance do, either via this interview, some other interview, or something else, that would soften your stance toward him? Try to exclude what you think he's trying to do now; I want to know what you WANT him to do, not what you think he is actually doing.

This question has importance that goes WAY beyond Lance himself as it speaks to how anyone can get redemption or forgiveness in our lives. And no I'm not talking religion here, I'm talking redemption among our fellow humans.
Back in the old days when I was growing up, people in public life who lied and were shown to have lied, had the gumption to acknowledge their errors and to go away quietly and remain out of the
public gaze in the hope that life would go on.
Even inveterate lying scumbags such as Richard Nixon had a modicum of self awareness to do the correct thing and to STFU after they were exposed for the people that they really are.

It seems to me that these days, so called celebrities and their enablers, would have it that their defective characters not only be acknowledged but somehow celebrated.
The industry that surrounds these people and their enablers would have it that character defects are "not bad" and that the actions stemming from those same character defects "are not bad"
They would have it that no one "should be accountable" for anything because none of us were "in their shoes" when they did what they did.

This sort of relativism eventually exonerates everyone of everything ultimately.

Rationalising defective characters and their associated behaviour is indulged far far too much throughout certain sections of Western society in my view.
Celebrities, their enablers and their PR advisors have no interest in right or wrong. Equivocation and spin are all they're interested in.

The choice presented to Armstrong 13 years ago was clear then as it is now.
Oprah Winfrey has zero mandate to restore the Uniballer to competitive participation.

Armstrong needs to make a full and detailed confession of doping activities if he wishes to participate in sport again.
Personally I think USADA are being generous in offering this option.

My own view would be to throw away the key at this juncture.
Recidivism is the Uniballers way.
 
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jpwkeeper said:
It is a confession by definition.  You can question the motives, which is really the point, but it is a confession.  It holds no more or less weight with me if he confesses on Oprah or if he confesses in front of the USADA honestly since I'm not a member of USADA, WADA, or UCI.  In fact Oprah may be a better forum for him to confess and apologize to me than the latter example. It very well may be just a PR stunt, but that isn't the crux of my question.  What would sway you?  Would you soften your stance if it wasn't a PR stunt? So said another way, what could Lance do, either via this interview, some other interview, or something else, that would soften your stance toward him?  Try to exclude what you think he's trying to do now; I want to know what you WANT him to do, not what you think he is actually doing. This question has importance that goes WAY beyond Lance himself as it speaks to how anyone can get redemption or forgiveness in our lives.  And no I'm not talking religion here, I'm talking redemption among our fellow humans.
No, what anyone thinks Lance Armstrong needs to do to gain any redemption has no relation to what others might have to do to get any redemption. Every instance is unique. For Armstrong specifically, he would need to do a lot:
  • Apologize to every single person in person that he attacked for speaking out, be that attack through his lawyers, himself, or others he had do the deed.
  • Make a full, detailed confession to USADA/WADA without strings attached or special consideration.
  • Give all the details about his relationship with UCI, the lab in Lausanne, Nike, and Ferrari, including bribes and monies paid.
  • Open his financial records to authorities so that his exact financial relationship with Livestrong can be made clear.
  • Detail the involvement of other people involved in the doping scheme including Bruyneel and Armstrong's partner in Tailwind Sports.
  • Return money in full plus interest and legal expenses to the SCA and the Sunday Times.
  • Cooperate with and testify for the feds without strings or special consideration.
  • Return his yellow jerseys and olympic medal
I likely forgot something, but those things hit the big points. Note that he'd likely be in better stead if he didn't slither to USADA, the feds, the SCA, and others looking for sweetheart deals for himself after he was outed.
 
Originally Posted by limerickman .

That article by Brennan is very very good.

Thanks for posting it.
My pleasure, Lim. The kind of journalism you'll NEVER read at the Fox Network - unabashed truth devoid of spin and propaganda. It can easily be surmised that Brennan isn't too concerned about getting the next Armstrong exclusive interview. LOL!

edit: - Hopefully, that next exclusive interview will be coming from a prison cell. Unlikely, but well deserved.
 
Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

It is a confession by definition. You can question the motives, which is really the point, but it is a confession. It holds no more or less weight with me if he confesses on Oprah or if he confesses in front of the USADA honestly since I'm not a member of USADA, WADA, or UCI. In fact Oprah may be a better forum for him to confess and apologize to me than the latter example.

It very well may be just a PR stunt, but that isn't the crux of my question. What would sway you? Would you soften your stance if it wasn't a PR stunt?

So said another way, what could Lance do, either via this interview, some other interview, or something else, that would soften your stance toward him? Try to exclude what you think he's trying to do now; I want to know what you WANT him to do, not what you think he is actually doing.

This question has importance that goes WAY beyond Lance himself as it speaks to how anyone can get redemption or forgiveness in our lives. And no I'm not talking religion here, I'm talking redemption among our fellow humans.
thank you for posting questions which intrigue me.

time and distance. armstrong seems too eager to have this rehabilitation fast-tracked. these efforts at gaining public sympathy to keep his charity/foundation going (?) are too easily seen as mercenary--manifestations of his continued desire to remain in the public eye and keep his fortune. i can't see him doing otherwise, frankly, as he has always been the self-promoting hustler. a full accounting with the authorities and under oath would help, especially if he doesn't try to couple that co-operation with a lesser sentence, but allows those hearing the matter to decide what reduction in sentence his co-operation merits. since i figure his charity is a smoking crater (and will they survive on their own hard work without armstrong's publicity), we will see if his commitment to fighting the disease is as sincere and energetic if he continues to do that work without a desire to have the publicity or its use as a bargaining chip. since i question armstrong's sincerity, i think that should he throw himself whole-heartedly into that work instead of hopping off to hawaii post-interview and posting photos of his latest ride or attempting to get a quid-pro-quo which allows him to continue to compete for individual glory. that would speak volumes to the depth of his confession.

i can no longer recall the source, but someone once wrote that we need to forgive but not forget. that sums it up for me. in time i may find my stance towards armstrong softens, but, as he's taken many years to create the horror behind the saintly facade, it will take years to recoup any charity towards armstrong as a man and a human.
 
...on that note!



http://www.strava.com/activities/36084603

Only 3rd fastest time on the climb?!?!?! Must be some good dope on the island!


Egads! Yet another 'ruined' life! Er...wait! Wut? Indeed! The "horror" he left in his wake!

Jamie L.
Still the best endurance athlete, EVER, bar none. LIVESTRONG had its 16th birthday,[COLOR= rgb(255, 0, 0)] thanks again for that, saved my freaking life[/COLOR].[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)] Cannot wait to see you back on the tri-circuit redefining what it means to be a senior athlete.[/COLOR] Thanks again for everything and please remember, keep your head up, it gives you more leverage to kick ass!


I feel like organizing a tri just so Lance can compete before his ban is lifted!