Lefevere : "1997 had the last clean TDF winner"

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by limerickman, Oct 3, 2006.

  1. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Patrick Lefevere (legendary manager of the Mapei/QuickStep squads) has suggested that 1997 TDF was the last clean TDF in terms of doping.


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/oct06/oct01news


    Lefevere's comments seemed to have irked Johan Bruyneel former ONCE rider and USPS/DC manager, who's team has contained riders who have found to have doped since 1999.
     
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  2. guncha

    guncha New Member

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    Blah, blah, blah...
    don't tell me that Riis and Jan were clean...
    A doper in Riis' team, Jan and Spanish doctor...
     
  3. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    I have a hard time believing there has ever been a clean champion..... At least since the mid 60's..... And JU and Riis would have to now have the reputation not being clean....

    Ju is good, but not good enough to beat all the riders who were doped on the Festina squad. And Riis did not have the creditionals to win a TDF .

    I was on the fence with JU until the latest news of the "laundry soap" and his not showing any traces of EPO. Then the refrence by the Spanish doctor to "powder." I'm convinced he always doped along with all the rest. I am now convinced that LA doped too. But all it changes is that LA was the greatest TDF rider ever that doped. But no more then the rest on the podium.

    Are there clean riders winning in Europe? Probably. But they are riders like Hincapie and others that always come close, but can't quite finish it off in the end.
     
  4. dexjava

    dexjava New Member

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    Oh put a cork in it. More propaganda... blah blah blah, no one cares that some "legendary manager" (according to you) spouts off a bunch of BS backing Jan but condemning everyone else. The actual facts speak for themselves.
     
  5. cyclingheroes

    cyclingheroes New Member

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    Lefevere... the man who hired Johan Museeuw as PR employee....??? I could wite a book about Patrick (and probebly 100 more about other people in the pro cycling scene..). Anyway i heard the original interview and didn't really know what to think about his comments.
     
  6. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    He also said he would vomit after Landis was caught doping.... do you think he will ?

    Funny thing thou Lefevere has a point and Bruyneel is not one to talk coming from ONCE... the team from that era had more drugs inside it than in a purple VW with peace signs on the side....
     
  7. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Lefevere's success as a manager is legendary.
    Look at his record. It's superb.

    In terms of Lefevere's comment about the 1997 TDF being won by the last clean champion : Lefevere's view is interesting.
     
  8. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    He does know the sport inside and out and he does know who cheats, has cheated and supplies the cheats... he has great respect from all circles from the UCI, to the riders association to other DS's..... our LA Lakers fans of cycling only know Bruyneel and think he is the only DS on the scene..... sad really....
     
  9. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    That was my point.

    Lefevere's been around a long time : his view (whether one agrees with his view about 1997 TDF being the last clean champion or not) is that of a manager who's been there, done that, for literally years.
    Lefevere's knowledge of the sport, his reading of performances - is unparalleled when you compare him to the other DS's in the sport at the moment.

    Echevarria (DS at Caisse d'Espargne - formerly Banesto) and Roger Legay are probably the only other DS's who have equal standing with Lefevere in this current era.
     
  10. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Bruyneel felt the comments were directed at him. There is a reason Bruyneel would feel this way. There has to be a lot of resentment of Bruyneels record as a DS. Bruyneel has an excellent reord as far as Grand Tours go so early in his career. Even if LA doped, we know the rest did too. So Bruyneel could say he beat the rest of the doped up riders with a doped up rider. LA stood on th epodium 7 times.
    Somehow as JU starts to look guiltier and guiltier at every turn , the accomplishments of LA are starting to look excellent.

    At first I thought LA might be clean. I do not feel that way anymore. Do I think JU was ever clean? No way. I do believe that the powers that be attacked LA when they looked the other way for so long. They just could not make anything stick. JU and the others are getting the windfall from the doping allegations against LA.

    My question is this ....... Why are they now coming down so hard on the riders that make the news? The history of the sport shows that dope was a bigger part of the sport then the equipment they rode. If you look at the doping programs that have been exposed, none of them have been exposed by the cycling profession......

    So my question is ..... Why now? The Festina bust was the time when they should have cleaned the sport...... It made news for a while, but it became just another story.
    So Why Now??????
     
  11. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I re-iterate the point.

    Lefevere knows this sport inside and out.
    Lefevere in his role as head of the cycling union - and in this role, his view is that the last clean TDF was in 1997.
    I think Lefevere's view - coupled with his entire experience and his superb palmares - qualifies him to make an informed comment.

    I would very much doubt that Lefevere had any manager in mind when making
    his view known about the 1997 TDF.
    Lefevere's has had unparalleled success for the past 16 years.
    And there is no history of antagonism with Bruyneel and Lefevere.

    Maybe it is co-incidence that Armstrong, Heras, Landis, Hamilton all cycled for Bruyneel during their career - and were found to have doped too.
     
  12. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    I take offense at that. I am a LA Laker fan. There are many well schooled fans of cycling in America. I remember sitting at a table with some riders in the 70's sharing a pizza. They were young at the time. One of the guys at the table went on to win the TDF 3 times, another won the Giro. And another rode the TDF once[DNF].... And this was in farm country USA.

    I had a old guy in the neighborhood when I first starting cycling who was a friend of Moser. This old guy wrenched in the TDF several times [1960's] before he came to America with his American wife. I spent many hours listening to him talk of which riders were good and which riders were not good. His criteria on their "goodness" was how they approached the mechanical end of cycling. [And they had to be Italian]

    No, cycling is not a mainstream sport in America. We do have our share of world class riders and frame builders. LA did a lot to promote the sport. But what does the newbie fan see in cycling ????? Racing???? No , he see's a sport so corrupt down to it's roots that makes Pro Wrestling look authentic.
     
  13. bobke

    bobke New Member

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    Whether Lefevre "knows" the sport is not at question.

    His judgement is at question.
    He is the head of an official organization yet he feels it is OK to joke about how dirty the sport is and make unfounded accusations about the cleanliness or not of the last 10 winners of the TdF.

    Sour grapes M. Lefevre? Just because none of his doped to the gills riders could contend.
    We all know he hired the most notorious PROVEN and confessed doper in TdF history Richard Virenque, unrepentant and a schmuck to his core.

    We all know he had a rider proven and judged in court to have doped, Museeuw, whom he still has work PR for his team.

    "I treat all my riders the same, but Johan Museeuw has a special place in my heart."
    Right M Lefevre...

    If he had any sense or ethics he would shut the F### up and clean up his own filthy dirty team.

    Would the head of the NFL accuse the winners of the SUper Bowl of doping?
    Would the head of the baseball team managers accuse the last 10 winner of the Wolrd Series of doping--without foundation.

    Lefevre is a joke.
    He is spouting unfounded rumor and innuendo.
    He is a dirtbag and so is anyone who gives credence to what he says.

    Wikipedia on Lefevre:
    "Lefévère is famous for having managed teams with many one-day race super-stars such as Johan Museeuw, Michele Bartoli, Paolo Bettini, Richard Virenque, and many others. His teams' successes in the Classic cycle races is nearly unmatched, on occasion dominating to the point that his riders fill the entire podium."

    read THEY ARE ALL DOPING PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. Capt.Injury

    Capt.Injury New Member

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    Patrick Lefevere is the greatest singl day classic DS without question. Unfortunately, I think bringing up the past does no positives for rebuilding the sport right now. The sport has enough dirt right now, it doesn't need the old dirt coming back.

    Take a look at baseball, Ruth was an alcoholic, womanizer, etc. Ty Cobb assualted fans and other players, but baseball doesn't bring this up during the current scandals it is having, they just talk about what they have accomplished in there great careers. The current BALCO scandals, are the only scnadals in the news, in fact, there has hardly even been a mention of Rafael Palmeiro, who was the first big name suspended under the new substance abuse.

    Those invovled in cycling be best to talk about fixing the Current problems, and working towards making the sport better by focusing on where its going, not where it has been. ITs best to remember the past, not to continously rehash it.
     
  15. Scotty_Dog

    Scotty_Dog New Member

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    Quote from the linked article:

    ...Patrick Lefevere downplayed his comments after the interview by saying he was just joking...


    No harm, no foul. He was just joking.:rolleyes:
     
  16. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Oh sure. Jan Ullrich, who has recently been enthralled in doping allegations, while being coached by one of the most blatant dopers in the sport in Mr. 60% was the last "clean" TdF winner. Uh huh. I don't care if Mother Teresa said it, I'm not buying it. Just more evidence that people on this forum are ready and willing to believe what they want to believe.
     
  17. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Lefevere's reputation as a DS in the classics is a very good one. But his reputation for being anti-dope is a poor one. He has been very outspoken over the years concerning others and dope but he has never taken care of his house.
    Lefever is one of the DS the sport needs to get rid of if it wants to clean up. He is one of the problems. Maybe Bruyneel and the rest are too, but until their team riders get caught in a situation where doping seems to be a practice, they should be considered innocent. Bruyneels riders never had problems until they left him. And that could be looked at in 2 different ways..... The first is they always doped and finally got caught. The 2nd is that Bruyneeel did not condone doping and they left to win in other places. At this point no one knows.

    Why would Lefever even make that statement during a time when the sport is being dragged already through the mud? He knew it would contoversial. The statement was an attack upon Armstrong/Bruyneel. And unless we ever get "solid proof" that Armstrong was a doper he is going in the record books as a 7 time winner of the TDF. So when people in positions of influence in the sport bring up the alleged doping practices of Armstrong/Bruyneel ,it is no more then just muckraking. The sport does not need that.
     
  18. helmutRoole2

    helmutRoole2 New Member

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    A clean Tour? If we're counting testosterone and steroids then you're going back to the 60's. Amphetamines, then further back. Alcohol... well, then there's never been a clean Tour.

    But seriously, Ullrich? It's not like he came out of some Eastern block athletic program... wait. Right. He did. Well, I don't know. Maybe he didn't dope.

    Na. Who are we kiddin'.
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Wolf - the above doesn't make sense.
    Bruyneels riders never had problems until they left?
    1999 dope tests and the medical cert for cortiscoids for Armstrong - Bruyneel was boss in 1999.


    The statement wasn't an attack against Bruyneel or Armstrong.
    His statement was a statement about the TDF post 1997.
    It included 1998 TDF - when Pantani won.

    Which is interesting - because Bruyneel's defensive response speaks volumes.
     
  20. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    What Lefevere says about doped T'sDF since 1997 isn't unfounded.



    I think you'll find that Mapei/Quick Step have the most impresssive palmares
    of the last decade.


    Bit rich coming from you.


    NFL ?
    Superbowl ?

    This is a cycling forum.


    bad at the track with junior, perhaps ?


    Bettini doped ? Have you proof?
    Bartoli doped ? Have you proof ?

    Incidentally - where's that link to the 75 page report you quoted on some weeks back??
     
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