Lefevere to vomit or head of doping ring ?

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by whiteboytrash, Jan 23, 2007.

  1. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Can see it now.....

    Bruyneel: "Hello is the the Het Laatste Nieuws ?"

    Newspaper: "Yes it is, what is your name ?"

    Bruyneel: "I can't tell you but I know that Patrick Lefevere has been involved in doping for 30 years. I know a guy in jail who will confirm this and 4 of my friends who will also remain anonymous will tell you the same story"

    Newspaper: "Wow thats huge, I'm writing all this down. So bascailly he was a bit like Basso in his riding days ?"

    Bruyneel: "No no no, not at all, Basso has never doped at all but Patrick Lefevere has for 30 years !"

    Bruyneel: "Must go sorry... but make sure you print all this ok ?"

    Newspaper: "No problems"

    Bruyneel: "Oh before I go make sure you buy a copy of Johan Bruyneel's motivation book. Its brilliant !"

    __________

    Patrick Lefevere has reacted angrily to the publication today in the Belgian mass-circulation daily newspaper, Het Laatste Nieuws, of a series of articles alleging he has had '30 years in doping'. As director of the Belgian ProTour squad Quick Step – Innergetic and president of the IPCT (International Professional Cycling Teams), Lefevere is one of professional cycling’s most influential figures. He has already threatened to sue the newspaper for defamation and was on Belgian radio this morning, denying the accusations in the three-page spread that has dominated the sports media since its publication.

    The newspaper titled the series of articles: "Patrick Lefevre, 30 years of doping". The key sources for the articles are a former cyclist who raced with Lefevere in the ‘70s, but is now a convicted criminal serving time, and the director of the race, Driedaagse van De Panne (Three Days of De Panne). The other key sources have remained anonymous, and there are no revelations of previously unannounced positive dope tests from riders that Lefevere’s managed.

    The articles claim to review an alleged doping history starting from when the manager was himself a pro cyclist. One source told the newspaper, "Lefevere stopped racing because he was addicted to amphetamines himself" when describing Lefevere's cycling career in the seventies. Another claimed that Lefevere also dealt in doping products.

    An Italian doctor that took care of Lefevere's riders during the years of the Mapei-team, featuring Johan Museeuw, also claimed that there was organised use of doping products. "Growth hormone came from the pharmacy, EPO was ordered online. If you wanted to ride a good season, you needed 20,000 to 30,000 euro, including products. Lefevere knew about it, saw it happening and approved it all", said one claim in the newspaper.

    According to reporter, Maarten Michielssens, who is known for his investigations into alleged doping in all sports, the other sources for his articles wanted to remain anonymous because they feared possible consequences if they spoke on-the-record.

    “The doctor said 'nothing’s left on paper as they all feared house searches',” Michielsen explained on Belgian radio this morning. “The man was scared to death and it will be hard to convince him to witness in a possible trial.”

    Lefevere has strongly denied almost all accusations made by the newspaper. "I used amphetamines as a cyclist, all the rest is nonsense and bullshit," Lefevre - who wants to sue the newspaper - said to Sporza.

    "These are heavy accusations and the bill that will be sent to them will be heavy as well. I’m someone who worked 25 years-long to end up where I am. I can’t accept all of this as I quit racing being 25-years old because I was possibly a little more intelligent that the man they pass the word to, who’s in gaol right now,” Lefevere said about informant Luc Capelle on Belgian radio.

    “The man is unreliable, he’s in gaol for his third murder attempt. We weren’t best friends but I can confirm we trained together,” Lefevere said.

    “These are all just foolish accusations. As an amateur I didn’t know what an injection needle looked like but as a professional I tried amphetamines about seven, eight times … my doctor was the inspector at the race. Once I used deca-durabolin but my body rejected it. That I was a dealer? Complete nonsense. The few times I used doping, I had to buy it myself," Lefevere said.

    Lefevere also reacted to the Italian doctor who claimed there was organised doping. “Since 1992 we work together with Doctor Van Mol, I co-founded the training centre of Mapei to keep talents like (Filippo) Pozatto, when he was a junior, out of the hands of Italian doctors. We wanted that the medical supervision was done by Mapei-doctors only," Lefevere said.

    Het Laatste Nieuws offered Lefevere the chance to comment on the article and Lefevere rejected the opportunity. "The conclusion? I formally deny everything. I’m manager of a top team and I’m responsible for the future of the people that work for me. If this is in the newspaper then a trial will follow. If my image has been harmed then I'll react and there'll be high, very high claims!"

    The two named witnesses in this case are Luc Capelle, and Roland Coolsaet. The first is in gaol (but claimed he sold doping products to Lefevere when they were riders in the ‘70s), while the latter is organiser of the "Driedaagse van De Panne".

    Coolsaet didn't actually accuse Lefevere in the paper, but referred to an incident in the 1999 edition of his race, when the Mapei team was withdrawn after a raid by the police. The police were said to have found amphetamines, but Mapei was not formally charged. Apparently an Italian soigneur was alleged to have been responsible and was acting alone.

    The anonymous Italian doctor quoted in the articles claims that Dr Van Mol was not that well informed on the practices within the team. "There were six doctors in the team, but after the Festina affair the doping was (allegedly) handled by external doctors like Ferrari and Cecchini, helped by some Belgian sports doctors. Van Mol and Lefevere were bunglers," the Italian doctor told the newspaper.

    Van Mol reacted to these statements by saying, "I don't know anything about organised doping use, and I've learned that I shouldn't react on anonymous data”.

    Despite the nature of the articles, which are seemingly based on hearsay, the publication has created a major controversy in the cycling-mad country, especially at a time when there is little racing to report on. At the time of writing, Lefevere had not commenced proceedings against the newspaper.
     
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  2. acpinto

    acpinto New Member

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    As i read this one thing came to my head.
    The "alleged" phone call of LA to Greg Lemond saying he could have 3 or 4 guys testifying he took PEDs.
    Just another ( bad ) day in cycling.
     
  3. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Agreed. I thought interesting that Lefevere actually admitted to take dope a few times when he rode..... he's a bigger man than most to say that much... Mr. Bruyneel has never made such admission even thou he came from "team Escobar".....
     
  4. acpinto

    acpinto New Member

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    Well he admitted that he took, but he didn´t admit that in his team there where also dopers and that he knew that they doped.
    Maybee he admitted that so he can easaly escape in the other charges...
    Don´t know just a thought.
     
  5. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    It's starting to unravel......http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan24news
     
  6. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    It's nice that Museuuw only doped in the last year of his career. ;)

    It will be interesting to see if Lefevere follows through with a lawsuit. With the massive EPO use during the mid and late nineties, how hard would it be for the newspaper to get the goods on Lefevere's teams during the discovery process? Seems like he would be opening a can of worms.

    I really liked this part:

    Another incident was recounted of when rider Marc Lotz was fired by Lefevere when police found EPO in his house. "Lotz had a good contract but didn't bring any results," 'Doctor 1' explained. "By the end of May 2005 Lotz was sent home by Lefevere to prepare himself for the Tour, which means training and taking EPO out of competition, so he wouldn't be confronted with race controls. Lotz listened to Lefevere and started his treatment. Three days later judicial authorities entered his house. They were tipped off by a phone call. In Lotz' contract was a line that said the contract was over when drugs were (found in his) in possession. Lotz was in trouble, while Lefevere got rid of an expensive contract. It's a perfect example from Lefevere's methods," 'Doctor 1' alleges.
     
  7. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    I read that part with interest.......LeFevere sounds as if he made some enemies within cycling..... He also sounds like a snake.....

    Who ever thought cycling would turn into a sport that teaches it's fans the first courses needed to get into law school?
     
  8. earth_dweller

    earth_dweller New Member

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    Man I hope Lefevre takes his contemporaries down with hm (Hey Bruyneel are you worried yet?). Lets see how fast the other DS come to his side and support him publicly.

     
  9. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    What is sad is we are watching the sport fall apart as we knew it.... It may not bounce back.. Everyone is fair game at this point. I doubt anyone who has had any success in the sport has been clean...... I am convinced that no GT winner the past 35 years has been clean....

    Looking at Lefevere's past riders and such, I would think he would be trying to stay out of the focus of the media. I believe he is setting himself up for a fall. I just hope he doesn't drag any current riders with him.....
    I highly suspect Boonen and Bettini. Just a gut feeling. And they are my favorite riders behind Zabel......
     
  10. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Some of you Lance haters [or American haters] should really move on..... Go to another sport...... So you wish that Lefevere takes others down so the sport has a harder time then it already has?
    The sport does not need you as a fan. Enjoying this makes you an ass.......
     
  11. earth_dweller

    earth_dweller New Member

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    Wrong on all counts.Of course, for you, not liking the Disco koolaid makes me an american hater, nice black & white view of the world. I am disgusted by the Disco fans repeating that their team is squeaky clean while taking pleasure in european riders getting tarnished with the doping brush. I am tired of doping in the peloton making riders seem like robots going up the climbs. I am fed up of all the organisations pointing fingers at each other instead on looking & cleaning their own house. So yes once in awhile, I do wish that pro cycling implodes and finally getting the dirt on Disco would be the biggest bomb of all.

    Oh and the sport will survive in Europe but might not in the US as fans tend to put their athletes on pedestals and be unforgiven when their heroes turn out to be frail human beings like the rest of us.

    Maybe if you had been following cycling longer you'd also be tired of the hypocrisy around doping. Why don't go back to football where all the athletes are clean.
     
  12. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    I have followed this sport since the early 70's....
    I understand the doping in cycling very clearly..... The hypocrisy of doping in the sport? Doping has been open in the sport since I can remember. The hypocrisy is saying you are a fan of the sport, then wishing more bad press upon it. So basically what you are saying is that your wish to see Disco go down is greater then seeing the sport move forward.
    You need to explain why seeing Disco go down would be the biggest bomb of all? This Lefevere situation could turn into the biggest bomb..... OP crossed many teams, Festina was huge. So what you are saying is Disco is bigger then the other teams in cycling?

    As far as cycling not surviving the US , you need to know the US does not need Europe to survive. Our cycling culture, even though it is based in MTB biking and track racing to a degree is as large as Europes...... Only the road racing is larger in Europe.

    America is hard on their hero';s..... but Europe is forgiving??? Read the Museuuw article to see that the Euro's have turned on him.. Look at the JU situation ..... I do not see any real forgiving there.......

    But anyone who wants more doping allegations in this sport for any individual or team is not a fan of the sport. You need to look at what it is about the sport you like......
     
  13. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    I thought that contemptible black and white, us versus them rhetoric withered along with support for the neocon's war.

    I think the first step in solving a problem is admitting that you have one, and the sport has not yet faced up to the reality. Instead the bad apples defense is still in vogue. As more revelations come out, more riders test positive, more ex-riders speak out, it makes that defense less tenable. Eventually the weight of the evidence will become so great that even the blind (Disco homers) will not be able to deny the truth. Then true progress will be able to be made.

    I would be willing to give Lefevere a bye if he had the guts to lay everything out. He could start with the early nineties and trace how EPO changed everything, how it forced everyone to dope or get out of the sport, and to make it clear that doping is not the bad acts of a few black sheep.
     
  14. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Your definition of "moving forward" must be different from mine. A competition between doctors and doping networks, as epitomized by Postal/Disco, is not what I want to watch. If I want to follow a fake sport then I can follow professional wrestling or body building.

    Bro, step away from the bong, or at least share some of that wacky weed with the rest of us.
     
  15. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    You should really look at cycling and see how Americanized it is......
    TM is American directed........
    CSC is an American owned team
    Discovery is an American owned team......

    So the American effort is very strong in cycling. It's easy to say cycling will survive..... Track and field in the world was just as large as cycling until the doping scandals..... Cycling has been cut back at the Olympics, with the possibility of not being invited if they do not clean the house up....

    Keep enjoying the scandals....... Wish for more....... The sport needs individuals like yourself.....
     
  16. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    You have followed cycling this long...... What is different today then in the 90's, the 80's the 70's.?????? Doping has always gone on...... What have you been watching???? Disco did not invent the dope..... Nor did they accelerate it......Only people who started watching the sport in the late 90's think that Disco "epitomized" doping.



    I think if the Lefevere thing gets out of control, you will see the individual who "epitomized" doping as we know it now. Disco only epitomized doping for the Lance haters. Look at the past 30 years.

    Am I wrong????? We have cycling all around us here in the states.. We do not have the level of road racing as Europe does, however we have some very good riders..... Our track racers go thru periods when they can hold their own against any individual country in Europe......
     
  17. tcklyde

    tcklyde New Member

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    I agree. The current corrupt doping structure needs to be exposed and the whole sport needs to crushed, destroyed, and laughed at. Doping is so deeply ingrained into the culture that a few stopgaps measures here and there won't help. The peloton and the teams think they can get away with anything. They will only clean up when they see the sponsors leave and the fans hate them.

    Cycling is about cheating, through and through. The fans need to be disappointed and disgusted. After all, this is a sport that sanctions the poisoning of its own and a sport that encourages its juniors to outsource their health to corrupt drug trafficers. We look the other way when 24 year old kids have strokes and heart attacks. We need a little outrage -- cycling needs to see consequences. I'd rather watch a few clean riders do a parking lot crit than see 170 juiced up cheaters pumping out 500 watts on climbs and almost never having a bad day and when they do they just pump themselves full of testosterone and have a miracle day the next.
     
  18. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    I like this one:

    'Soigneur 2' tells a story about Freddy Viaene, a colleague from the Discovery Channel team. "Viaene isn't welcome anywhere: burned his hands, got spat out by the peloton. He knew how the Americans work, he worked with ... " several leading riders, 'Soigneur 2' was quoted in Het Laatste Nieuws. QuickStep's popular soigneur, Dirk Nachtergaele, apparently said to Lefevere, "you can't take that guy in our team!" Despite this Lefevere insisted and wanted Viaene in the team.

    - Now how do those Americans work ?

     
  19. wicklow200

    wicklow200 New Member

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    There goes Lefevre's credibility and I don't think he will be influencing anything more about Discos / Basso's participation in big races, like he was hoping to do.

    Hypocritical wanker.
     
  20. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    The difference is that EPO actually works while the benefits of amphetamines and steroids for aerobic sports is questionable. Clean riders could still compete before EPO. There may not have been many clean riders but doping was not a necessity. Lemond might have won the Tour clean. I don't know if he did, but it was possible at that time, especially for somone of Lemond's talent. No one can win the Tour today without dope, and the loss of ambiguity about whether or not dope is being used is a huge difference with the 70s and 80s. It severs the link between me as a non-doping amateur and the pros.

    I think the real reason you keep harping on the 70s and 80s is to excuse Armstrong's dope use. You want to draw a parallel between the dope use today and the past, but I don't see them as equivalent. High schoolers catching a buzz by guzzling Robotussin is not the same as mainlining heroin. EPO started the heroin phase of the sport's dope use.
     
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