Mountain Bikers TROUNCED in Los Angeles!

[Jason]

* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> I always remove the names, because it has been proven countless times that
> people who tell the truth about mountain biking get threatened and harrassed by
> mountain bikers. Mountain bikers like you avoid using your real name because you
> are LYING.

Liar as usual.

Jason

Vandeman FAQ: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32
http://www.geocities.com/mike_vandeman_the_extremist/

 

[Jason]

* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> According to SCIENCE, mountain biking has more impact on wildlife:
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.

Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
corroborating papers?

Jason
vandeman faq: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32.

 

[Gary S.]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:30:00 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:

>* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
>> According to SCIENCE, mountain biking has more impact on wildlife:
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
>
>Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
>it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
>corroborating papers?
>
>Jason
>vandeman faq: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32.

There is his second Web page, which agrees with his first one.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:40:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I always remove the names, because it has been proven countless times that
>people who tell the truth about mountain biking get threatened and harrassed by
>mountain bikers.

FSVO "truth" obviously.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Jason]

* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:07:59 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:
> .So basically you all lied and blamed everything on one group instead of
> .all taking responsibility and trying to come to a compramise. Typical
> .lying environmentalists.
>
> No, basically, they just told the truth about mountain biking -- something you
> should try, liar. There were plenty of mountain bikers there to plead their
> case, but they chose to LIE.

Once again you lie, you always lie. You must be a pathological liar you
do it so often.

Jason

 

[NeXuS]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:09:01 +0100, "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Just one question that needs to asked Mike.
> .
> .Do you ride a horse yourself?
>
> No, I don't believe in using animals as vehicles. What does that have to
> do with
> the harm done to natural areas by mountain biking????

Quite a lot when you come to think that one horserider can do the same a
mount of damage to trail as multiple bike users.

Hold on, your name's "Swampy" innit? LLF

> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[NeXuS]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:59:45 +0100, "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>as for the recumbant, do you use it off-road and you'll have to post a
>>piccy of it, (i've a mad fascination of them.)
>
> I don't ride offroad on the 'bent (not even on cyclepaths). There are
> some pics on my website (see .sig) including the one and only time I
> tried racing it:
>
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/Web/public.nsf/Documents/Cyclefest
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

That's pretty impressive, what kinda speeds you get out that thing?

Oh, btw. Is that my imagination, or are there cleats on your sandals? lol

 

[GaryG]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:04:29 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
> .>
> .> Mike
> .>
> .>
> .> Subject: Griffth Park Master Plan meeting
> .>
> .> Hi Mike,
> .>
> .> The meeting was last night, so there hasn't been time to talk about it
> .much.
> .>
> .> We WON every point that was of concern. The bikers, all white 30
> .something
> .> males, came off as rude, aggressive fools. Most of them were from out
of
> .town,
> .> not even local to the Park. It was a disaster for them.
> .>
> .> It was a wonderful turnout, probably close to 300 people. Plus some TV
> .> coverage. I worked hard to get it going and then it took on a life of
it's
> .own
> .> as
> .> other people told other friends, etc. As far as I can see, just about
> .every
> .> barn was represented with both us old farts and lots of young people as
> .well,
> .> plus we had a nice cross section of income levels and races present,
> .Latino,
> .> black, white, little kids. It made it quite clear that horses were not
> .simply
> .> the province of the wealthy.
> .
> .What a bald-faced lie! Does the author really expect us to believe that
> .there are poor, or working class, horse owners in Los Angeles?
>
> You don't need to OWN a horse to ride one. DUH!

The OP is attempting to portray urban equestrians as representative of a
cross section of socioeconomic classes. This is an obvious distortion of
the truth.

http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gphorserentals/prices.html

$20 / hour / horse...not exactly cheap family fun...duh!

The fact that you are gleefully supporting SUV driving equestrians
illustrates the depths of your hypocrisy and obsession, but that's nothing
new to long-time readers.

BTW - do you have any close relationships in the real world? (girlfriends,
boyfriends, etc.). Or, is this what your life is all about?

GG

> .GG
> .
> .> Not only did we accomplish a lot, but we generated a LOT of good will
for
> .the
> .> equestrians on the part of the Parks. I had received a couple of
"secret"
> .> phone calls from people who were sitting on that dais last night who
were
> .> worried about the MB threat and wanted me to make sure and bring people
to
> .> support
> .> them. The horse people out did themselves, were courteous (which I had
> .> stressed when I prepped them), well spoken for the most part and
> .represented all
> .> kinds of races and income levels as well. It couldn't have been
better.
> .>
> .> After the presentation had started, I got up to go to the bathroom (the
> .curse
> .> of the teeny bladder) when City Councilperson ... hopped out of his/her
> .seat
> .> and grabbed my arm. "Don't you worry about a thing," he/she whispered,
> ."I'm
> .> going
> .> to take care of you horse people. No mountain bikers on my watch."
> .>
> .> It was a great moment when he/she got up and stuck it to the bikers and
> .everyone
> .> in the audience cheered! The whole thing was very gratifying to me. It
> .was my
> .> night, a culmination of my years of work, personal credibility and PR.
> .The
> .> mountain bikers were completely out done. Jim Hausenaur was there,
> .although I
> .> didn't see him. I loved that, he's such a lying jerk.
> .>
> .> I didn't speak because everyone else made all the point that were
needed
> .to
> .> be made, plus it's so much better when there's new input instead of the
> .same
> .> old faces all the time. I imagine that I'll probably be on the
citizens
> .> oversight committee and will have all the time in the world to speak
then.
> .>
> .> I was SO BUSY glad handing and thanking people for being there, that I
> .didn't
> .> even get to see all those who were there, plus afterwards I was mobbed
and
> .> was one of the last to leave.
> .>
> .> Today I was staggeringly tired. I was too wired to sleep well, and
dizzy
> .when
> .> I got up. I rode around the trails and encountered lots of folks from
the
> .> meeting last night. I made a big point of thanking them and letting
them
> .know
> .> that without each and every one of them present, we couldn't have
> .accomplished
> .> what we did in such a short amount of time. YES!!!
> .>
> .> We got 6 years worth of work done in a couple of hours. The meeting
> .wasn't
> .> just about MBers on our trails, but was about a Master Plan for the
next
> .25
> .> years in the Park. There were lots of issues to be dealt with.
> .>
> .> It was a good to see how united our equestrian community was (as well
as
> .> home owners associations, the Observatory, the dogwalkers, the hikers,
and
> .many
> .> more who were also opposed to bikes on our trails). The lesson is that
you
> .> don't have to put up with bikers on your trails in order to have trail
> .access
> .> for
> .> horses.
> .>
> .> It sort of restored my faith in the process. It looked discouraging
there
> .for
> .> a while.
> .>
> .> Yeeeaaaah! I'm so proud of everyone. Plus they had a good time
> .participating
> .> in the planning of their own Park trails, etc. Makes them more willing
to
> .do
> .> it again in the future.
> .>
> .> ===
> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:31:13 +0100, "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote in
message <[email protected]>:

>That's pretty impressive, what kinda speeds you get out that thing?

cruising speed is 22-23mph, and I have averaged over 20mph for half an
hour over undulating terrain. Not that quick, really, but more
consistent (the wedgie is prone to slowing down in headwinds).

>Oh, btw. Is that my imagination, or are there cleats on your sandals? lol

Yes indeed Shimano SPD sandals, footwear of choice among us
darksiders.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:24:02 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>.In one of my local recreational areas, a Crown Estate, there are
>.hiker-only, horse, bike and all-user trails. No problem at all.

>Typical mountain biker response. They think that the destruction of wildlife
>habitat for those extra trails is "no problem".

Somehow I think the commercial logging activities in the estate are
just the teensiest bit more disruptive to wildlife than mountain
bikers riding on trails which were laid out specifically for their
use!

There are lots of butterflies and rare plants in the area around the
iron age fort, though.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:30:20 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>. Wonder how many of those guys will find that at age 50 they have
>.serious medical issues.....

>Yes. Like DEATH.

Which is, of course, why cyclists live longer than average and enjoy
fitness levels of people up to ten years younger. Oh, wait...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[GWood]

Ah Yes. Los Angeles. The nucleus of "green" thinkers everywhere, and a
shining example to us all.

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
>

 

[pmhilton]

Gary S. wrote:

>
>
> a few FACTS you just ignored:
>
>1) I am not a mountain biker, but primarily a hiker, skier, and road
>biker, along with other outdoor activities. I do not understand why
>you would think that I am a mountain biker, or repeatedly call me one.
>
>2) My real name is in my signature. Has been for the many years I have
>participated in Usenet.
>
>As many people do, I do not use my real email when posting, as it
>generates Spam. My real email is available in my sig, and various
>people from this group have been able to contact me off-line.
>
>Are you too stupid to read the signature at the end of a posting?
>
>3) I accurately stated my OPINION. That does not mean that I am lying,
>that does not mean that I am wrong.
>
>You could disagree with my opinion with your opinion, but you do not
>have the social skills to handle that, so you resort to childish
>behavior (apologies to all children for comparing you to them).
>
>
>
>
All this will seem coherent & rational to nearly all who read it. But
you are attempting rational discourse with an irrational being. This has
been demonstrated on the average of 2.874 times per day for the past
several years.

And please snip a little; one doesn't need to "quote" an entire MV rant
to respond to one or two exceptinally irrational points in it.

Pete H

--
A person is free only in
the freedom of other persons.
W. Berry

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:25:55 +0100, "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:09:01 +0100, "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .Just one question that needs to asked Mike.
..> .
..> .Do you ride a horse yourself?
..>
..> No, I don't believe in using animals as vehicles. What does that have to
..> do with
..> the harm done to natural areas by mountain biking????
..
..Quite a lot when you come to think that one horserider can do the same a
..mount of damage to trail as multiple bike users.

You didn't answer my question. What does the harm that mountain biking does have
to do with horseback riding (hint: NOTHING).

..Hold on, your name's "Swampy" innit? LLF
..
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:26:40 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:24:02 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..wrote in message <[email protected]>:
..
..>.In one of my local recreational areas, a Crown Estate, there are
..>.hiker-only, horse, bike and all-user trails. No problem at all.
..
..>Typical mountain biker response. They think that the destruction of wildlife
..>habitat for those extra trails is "no problem".
..
..Somehow I think the commercial logging activities in the estate are
..just the teensiest bit more disruptive to wildlife than mountain
..bikers riding on trails which were laid out specifically for their
..use!

None of which has anything to do with the damage mountain biking does. By your
logic, we shouldn't worry about any crimes other than murder.

..There are lots of butterflies and rare plants in the area around the
..iron age fort, though.
..
..Guy

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:00:33 GMT, Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote:

..On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:26:47 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..
..>On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:03:22 GMT, Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote:
..>
..>.Typical Mikie "divide and conquer" strategy.
..>.
..>.He still hates equestrian riders, and he still hates hikers. He will
..>.work to ban them once they have been duped into helping him ban
..>.mountain biking.
..>.
..>.His ultimate goal is to keep all humans away from all wilderness, and
..>.he will do anything to achieve that.
..>.
..>.Objectively, horses would seems to cause a similar level of trail
..>.damage, and a similar level of difficulty for other trail users.
..>
..>Not according to science. Mountain bikers cause more impact on wildlife:
..>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
..>
..There is more to science than referencing your own Web page.

Not in this case. I reviewed EVERY paper on the subject. I'll bet you have read
NONE of them.

..There is more to science that quoting one book which happens to agree
..with your opinions.
..
..What impact does having horses on the trails have on wildlife and
..erosion? In the past, you have criticized this quite strongly.
..
..Are you changing your views about horses to gain support to ban
..mountain bikes, or are you duping the equestrian people into helping
..you before trying to ban their activity as well?
..
..Happy trails,
..Gary (net.yogi.bear)

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:23:47 -0400, The Wogster <[email protected]> wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .>
..> .> So what do you recon causes more damage, horses or bikes? Bit obvious
..> .> innit.
..> .>
..> .
..> .The issue comes down to one, tiny little factor, if everyone can prove,
..> .that they will leave delicate areas of parks, and natural areas exactly
..> .the same as they found them, then there would be no issue either way.
..> .
..> .The problem is that mountain bikers like to bush whack,
..>
..> True. They travel so fast, that they don't really experience what they are
..> seeing, so they get bored quickly and want more trails. Since parks don't want
..> to destroy more habitat, the bikers do it illegally. It happens EVERYWHERE.
..>
..
..90% of people who mountain bike, do so responsibly,

Proof? In fact, IMBA has a study on their web site showing that the vast
MAJORITY of mountain bikers don't obey the law.

just like 95% of
..horse riders, hikers, cross country skiers and even snowmobilers, and
..anyone else who does an activity that involves wild areas. They stay
..on the trails and roadways, which limits damage to those specific areas
..(the established trails).
..
..The problem is the other 10%. They put their own selfishness ahead of
..everyone and everything else. They then make it difficult for everyone
..else, when their activity is subsequently curtailed. In this case LA
..county has stated that for this specific park, bikes are limited to
..paved areas only. Heck 90% of people on bikes do that anyway, even
..those on mountain bikes. Hopefully in a couple of years, the majority
..will be able to convince the county seat to open up some non-paved
..trails as well in a couple of years.

Don't hold your breath.

..W
..
..
..
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:30:00 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:

..* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
..> According to SCIENCE, mountain biking has more impact on wildlife:
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
..
..Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
..it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
..corroborating papers?

Yes, all of the ones I reviewed.

..Jason
..vandeman faq: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:11:28 GMT, Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote:

..On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:40:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..
..>On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:57:48 GMT, Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote:
..>
..>.On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:47:49 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..>.wrote:
..>.
..>.>ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
..>.>
..>.>Mike
..>.>
..>.>
..>.>Subject: Griffth Park Master Plan meeting
..>.>
..>.>Hi Mike,
..>.>
..>.>The meeting was last night, so there hasn't been time to talk about it much.
..>.>
..>.>We WON every point that was of concern. The bikers, all white 30 something
..>.>males, came off as rude, aggressive fools. Most of them were from out of town,
..>.>not even local to the Park. It was a disaster for them.
..>.>
..>.Another Mikie supporter who is afraid to use his name, or Mikie
..>.conveniently forgot it.
..>
..>I always remove the names, because it has been proven countless times that
..>people who tell the truth about mountain biking get threatened and harrassed by
..>mountain bikers. Mountain bikers like you avoid using your real name because you
..>are LYING.
..>
..Mikie: Your statement above just proves my point by your standards.
..
..Also, a few FACTS you just ignored:
..
..1) I am not a mountain biker, but primarily a hiker, skier, and road
..biker, along with other outdoor activities. I do not understand why
..you would think that I am a mountain biker, or repeatedly call me one.

Then why do you act like one?

..2) My real name is in my signature. Has been for the many years I have
..participated in Usenet.
..
..As many people do, I do not use my real email when posting, as it
..generates Spam. My real email is available in my sig, and various
..people from this group have been able to contact me off-line.
..
..Are you too stupid to read the signature at the end of a posting?
..
..3) I accurately stated my OPINION. That does not mean that I am lying,
..that does not mean that I am wrong.

If you assert a falsehood, it's called "lying". It isn't opinion unless you
preface it with "in my opinion". DUH!

..You could disagree with my opinion with your opinion, but you do not
..have the social skills to handle that, so you resort to childish
..behavior (apologies to all children for comparing you to them).
..
..
..>.By Mikie's own standard, this makes him a LIAR.
..>.
..>.Not a single one of Mikie's supporters ever gives their name, because
..>.a mountain biker might do something bad to them.
..>.
..>.Won't these equestrian people be surprised when they read what Mikie
..>.really thinks of horses and riders. Mikie is using these naive people,
..>.and then will turn around and try to ban their activity.
..>.
..>.Unless Mikie will state publicly that horses cause no environmental
..>.damage, and that he was wrong about them being an invasive non-native
..>.species when he wrote that last year.
..>.
..As always, you ignore key points that you do not have the intellectual
..capacity to deal with.
..
..Thank you for amusing me today.
..
..Happy trails,
..Gary (net.yogi.bear)

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:24 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]> wrote:

.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:04:29 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
..> .>
..> .> Mike
..> .>
..> .>
..> .> Subject: Griffth Park Master Plan meeting
..> .>
..> .> Hi Mike,
..> .>
..> .> The meeting was last night, so there hasn't been time to talk about it
..> .much.
..> .>
..> .> We WON every point that was of concern. The bikers, all white 30
..> .something
..> .> males, came off as rude, aggressive fools. Most of them were from out
..of
..> .town,
..> .> not even local to the Park. It was a disaster for them.
..> .>
..> .> It was a wonderful turnout, probably close to 300 people. Plus some TV
..> .> coverage. I worked hard to get it going and then it took on a life of
..it's
..> .own
..> .> as
..> .> other people told other friends, etc. As far as I can see, just about
..> .every
..> .> barn was represented with both us old farts and lots of young people as
..> .well,
..> .> plus we had a nice cross section of income levels and races present,
..> .Latino,
..> .> black, white, little kids. It made it quite clear that horses were not
..> .simply
..> .> the province of the wealthy.
..> .
..> .What a bald-faced lie! Does the author really expect us to believe that
..> .there are poor, or working class, horse owners in Los Angeles?
..>
..> You don't need to OWN a horse to ride one. DUH!
..
..The OP is attempting to portray urban equestrians as representative of a
..cross section of socioeconomic classes. This is an obvious distortion of
..the truth.
..
..http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gphorserentals/prices.html
..
..$20 / hour / horse...not exactly cheap family fun...duh!
..
..The fact that you are gleefully supporting SUV driving equestrians

Liar. I never said that. You FABRICATED it. Liar.

..illustrates the depths of your hypocrisy and obsession, but that's nothing
..new to long-time readers.
..
..BTW - do you have any close relationships in the real world? (girlfriends,
..boyfriends, etc.). Or, is this what your life is all about?
..
..GG
..
..> .GG
..> .
..> .> Not only did we accomplish a lot, but we generated a LOT of good will
..for
..> .the
..> .> equestrians on the part of the Parks. I had received a couple of
.."secret"
..> .> phone calls from people who were sitting on that dais last night who
..were
..> .> worried about the MB threat and wanted me to make sure and bring people
..to
..> .> support
..> .> them. The horse people out did themselves, were courteous (which I had
..> .> stressed when I prepped them), well spoken for the most part and
..> .represented all
..> .> kinds of races and income levels as well. It couldn't have been
..better.
..> .>
..> .> After the presentation had started, I got up to go to the bathroom (the
..> .curse
..> .> of the teeny bladder) when City Councilperson ... hopped out of his/her
..> .seat
..> .> and grabbed my arm. "Don't you worry about a thing," he/she whispered,
..> ."I'm
..> .> going
..> .> to take care of you horse people. No mountain bikers on my watch."
..> .>
..> .> It was a great moment when he/she got up and stuck it to the bikers and
..> .everyone
..> .> in the audience cheered! The whole thing was very gratifying to me. It
..> .was my
..> .> night, a culmination of my years of work, personal credibility and PR.
..> .The
..> .> mountain bikers were completely out done. Jim Hausenaur was there,
..> .although I
..> .> didn't see him. I loved that, he's such a lying jerk.
..> .>
..> .> I didn't speak because everyone else made all the point that were
..needed
..> .to
..> .> be made, plus it's so much better when there's new input instead of the
..> .same
..> .> old faces all the time. I imagine that I'll probably be on the
..citizens
..> .> oversight committee and will have all the time in the world to speak
..then.
..> .>
..> .> I was SO BUSY glad handing and thanking people for being there, that I
..> .didn't
..> .> even get to see all those who were there, plus afterwards I was mobbed
..and
..> .> was one of the last to leave.
..> .>
..> .> Today I was staggeringly tired. I was too wired to sleep well, and
..dizzy
..> .when
..> .> I got up. I rode around the trails and encountered lots of folks from
..the
..> .> meeting last night. I made a big point of thanking them and letting
..them
..> .know
..> .> that without each and every one of them present, we couldn't have
..> .accomplished
..> .> what we did in such a short amount of time. YES!!!
..> .>
..> .> We got 6 years worth of work done in a couple of hours. The meeting
..> .wasn't
..> .> just about MBers on our trails, but was about a Master Plan for the
..next
..> .25
..> .> years in the Park. There were lots of issues to be dealt with.
..> .>
..> .> It was a good to see how united our equestrian community was (as well
..as
..> .> home owners associations, the Observatory, the dogwalkers, the hikers,
..and
..> .many
..> .> more who were also opposed to bikes on our trails). The lesson is that
..you
..> .> don't have to put up with bikers on your trails in order to have trail
..> .access
..> .> for
..> .> horses.
..> .>
..> .> It sort of restored my faith in the process. It looked discouraging
..there
..> .for
..> .> a while.
..> .>
..> .> Yeeeaaaah! I'm so proud of everyone. Plus they had a good time
..> .participating
..> .> in the planning of their own Park trails, etc. Makes them more willing
..to
..> .do
..> .> it again in the future.
..> .>
..> .> ===
..> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande