RAPTOR trike safety alert!

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Jt, Apr 14, 2003.

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  1. Jt

    Jt Guest

    The Raptor trike is a tadpole made from various sections of aluminium bolted together. It has
    conventional front-wheel brakes, mounted on an arm that is attached to the wheel axle. This arm is
    constrained from rotating due to brake torque by a small bolt which goes through both the brake arm
    and the wheel mounting plate. This bolt is about 1 inch from the brake axle.

    If this bolt shears three dangerous things can happen:
    a) loss of braking
    b) loss of steering
    c) rider catapulted forward out of the seat

    I emailed the Rich Richardson, the maker of the Raptor, and he replied that I shouldn't worry, that
    <some number of trike owners less than 50> had had no problems.

    Last night the bolt sheared. Taylor (who was riding it) flipped the trike and fell out, but
    was unhurt.

    This was not a maximum-braking force event. It was on more or less level ground, at low speed, and
    Taylor is 10 years old.

    I am repairing the trike and adding a proper brake torque arm; details to follow.
     
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  2. Rich101

    Rich101 Guest

    Regarding the bolt in question. The only other time that bolt sheared was when a man rolled his
    trike. In that instance he sent me a letter saying how pleased he was that the bolt was able to act
    as a shear pin and save the machine from more serious damage. He mentioned that his lawn mower had a
    similar arraignment. As an engineer he was impressed by the sophistication. For anyone concerned
    about it, please replace the bolt with an allen head hardened steel bolt. That should solve any
    shear problem, of course it will also eliminate the advantage of having a shear pin. Trike design is
    a series of compromises, it is difficult to have everything. Rich Richardson

    RAPTOR TRIKES 1625 HENDERSON A-15 EUGENE, OR 97403 541-736-3008 [email protected]
    http://www.ezdenver.com/raptor/

    o
    O/ --O

    jt wrote:

    > The Raptor trike is a tadpole made from various sections of aluminium bolted together. It has
    > conventional front-wheel brakes, mounted on an arm that is attached to the wheel axle. This arm is
    > constrained from rotating due to brake torque by a small bolt which goes through both the brake
    > arm and the wheel mounting plate. This bolt is about 1 inch from the brake axle.
    >
    > If this bolt shears three dangerous things can happen:
    > a) loss of braking
    > b) loss of steering
    > c) rider catapulted forward out of the seat
    >
    > I emailed the Rich Richardson, the maker of the Raptor, and he replied that I shouldn't worry,
    > that <some number of trike owners less than 50> had had no problems.
    >
    > Last night the bolt sheared. Taylor (who was riding it) flipped the trike and fell out, but
    > was unhurt.
    >
    > This was not a maximum-braking force event. It was on more or less level ground, at low speed, and
    > Taylor is 10 years old.
    >
    > I am repairing the trike and adding a proper brake torque arm; details to follow.

    --

    RAPTOR TRIKES 1625 HENDERSON A-15 EUGENE, OR 97403 541-736-3008 [email protected]
    http://www.ezdenver.com/raptor/

    o
    P/ --O
     
  3. Jt

    Jt Guest

    "rich101" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Regarding the bolt in question. The only other time that bolt sheared was when a man rolled his
    > trike. In that instance he sent me a letter saying how pleased he was that the
    bolt was
    > able to act as a shear pin and save the machine from more serious damage. He mentioned that his
    > lawn mower had a similar arraignment. As an engineer
    he
    > was impressed by the sophistication.

    That would be a "d)" in the list below.

    > For anyone concerned about it, please replace the bolt with an allen head hardened steel bolt.
    > That should solve any shear problem, of course it
    will also
    > eliminate the advantage of having a shear pin. Trike design is a series of compromises, it is
    > difficult to have
    everything.
    > Rich Richardson
    >
    > RAPTOR TRIKES 1625 HENDERSON A-15 EUGENE, OR 97403 541-736-3008 [email protected]
    > http://www.ezdenver.com/raptor/
    >
    > o
    >O/ --O
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > jt wrote:
    >
    > > The Raptor trike is a tadpole made from various sections of aluminium
    bolted
    > > together. It has conventional front-wheel brakes, mounted on an arm
    that is
    > > attached to the wheel axle. This arm is constrained from rotating due
    to
    > > brake torque by a small bolt which goes through both the brake arm and
    the
    > > wheel mounting plate. This bolt is about 1 inch from the brake axle.
    > >
    > > If this bolt shears three dangerous things can happen:
    > > a) loss of braking
    > > b) loss of steering
    > > c) rider catapulted forward out of the seat
    > >
    > > I emailed the Rich Richardson, the maker of the Raptor, and he replied
    that
    > > I shouldn't worry, that <some number of trike owners less than 50> had
    had
    > > no problems.
    > >
    > > Last night the bolt sheared. Taylor (who was riding it) flipped the
    trike
    > > and fell out, but was unhurt.
    > >
    > > This was not a maximum-braking force event. It was on more or less
    level
    > > ground, at low speed, and Taylor is 10 years old.
    > >
    > > I am repairing the trike and adding a proper brake torque arm; details
    to
    > > follow.
    >
    > --
    >
    > RAPTOR TRIKES 1625 HENDERSON A-15 EUGENE, OR 97403 541-736-3008 [email protected]
    > http://www.ezdenver.com/raptor/
    >
    > o
    >O/ --O
     
  4. Steve Watkin

    Steve Watkin Guest

    You get what you pay for more or less. I own a 1999 s/h Trice (an ICE one) and it has all the hall
    marks of a good product. Recently I had a problem that I asked the people at ICE to help me with.
    Their service was "second to none" and it's great to be able to say that about a company that is
    from Great Britain. Yes I did have to pay for the necessary work but the quality of that workmanship
    and the willingness of all at ICE to get things right was impressive. One other interesting thing I
    noticed whilst I was there was that none of the owners or staff looked "rich" so it seems to me that
    the money you pay for the product is all in the product. I was also able to see their new trikes and
    they have really now reached the standard of not only being a very sound piece of engineering bit
    also very nearly being a "work of art" . They are beautiful and anyone spending their hard earned 2
    or 3 grand will be well pleased. If we have any complaints the first port of call should always be
    to the manufacturer, I am convinced that most, if not all, of them care about their customers.
    Please do not let everyone think the product is bad untill you have had no satisfaction from the
    manufacturer.

    SW ( just a happy owner who is saving for a new one but may never reach that goal ! )

    "jt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The Raptor trike is a tadpole made from various sections of aluminium
    bolted
    > together. It has conventional front-wheel brakes, mounted on an arm that
    is
    > attached to the wheel axle. This arm is constrained from rotating due to brake torque by a small
    > bolt which goes through both the brake arm and the wheel mounting plate. This bolt is about 1 inch
    > from the brake axle.
    >
    > If this bolt shears three dangerous things can happen:
    > a) loss of braking
    > b) loss of steering
    > c) rider catapulted forward out of the seat
    >
    > I emailed the Rich Richardson, the maker of the Raptor, and he replied
    that
    > I shouldn't worry, that <some number of trike owners less than 50> had had no problems.
    >
    > Last night the bolt sheared. Taylor (who was riding it) flipped the trike and fell out, but
    > was unhurt.
    >
    > This was not a maximum-braking force event. It was on more or less level ground, at low speed, and
    > Taylor is 10 years old.
    >
    > I am repairing the trike and adding a proper brake torque arm; details to follow.
     
  5. David Luecke

    David Luecke Guest

    > Please do not let everyone think the product is bad untill you have had no satisfaction from the
    > manufacturer.

    I can understand that. Though, when a father's kid gets hurt or nearly gets hurt on a product
    because of an apparent design deficiency, and he is mad about it, well, I can understand that too.

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA
     
  6. Warren Lemoi

    Warren Lemoi Guest

    On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:11:45 -0700, rich101 <[email protected]> wrote:

    > As an engineer he was impressed by the sophistication.

    If the bolt sheared while my young son was riding I would be impressed with the sophistication of
    your liability insurance!

    Another engineer not so easily impressed with compromises in design.

    --
    Warren Lemoi R&D

    Savitar Engineering "Thinking Outside The Envelope"
     
  7. The Raptor is a nice, clean-looking design and priced better than most recumbent tricycles. I wonder
    how well the aluminum box-beam frame will hold up with a heavy rider over a long period? Do you make
    a heavy-duty version of it, which some other tricycle builders will do? Ever consider a quad-cranked
    tricycle? Do you put fairing mounts on the Raptor's frame?

    Regarding the sheared bolt in question, I'd replace it with two of them, if I was riding it.

    By the way, I have bad news for you: your location is in Springfield, not Eugene. The
    previously unincorporated Glenwood area was annexed to Springfield a couple of years ago.

    Steve McDonald
     
  8. Paul Dalen

    Paul Dalen Guest

    I had a Raptor-25 recently. I put about 400 problem free miles on it before deciding to stick with
    a RANS V2.

    Rich was always available and always ready to answer any concern I had about the trike.

    He represents himself as an inventor, not an engineer. If an engineer can suggest something to fix a
    problem, I'm sure he's willing to listen. But please let him consider what you are saying before
    implying that he is marketing an unsafe product.

    Rich's trike is available to a group of people who would never be able to afford a conventionally
    built trike. Certain choices had to be made to make that happen. You can't expect a Greenspeed if
    you only pay 1/3 of what a Greenspeed costs, after all.

    In the end, caveat emptor.

    "jt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > The Raptor trike is a tadpole made from various sections of aluminium bolted together. It has
    > conventional front-wheel brakes, mounted on an arm that is attached to the wheel axle. This arm is
    > constrained from rotating due to brake torque by a small bolt which goes through both the brake
    > arm and the wheel mounting plate. This bolt is about 1 inch from the brake axle.
    >
    > If this bolt shears three dangerous things can happen:
    > a) loss of braking
    > b) loss of steering
    > c) rider catapulted forward out of the seat
    >
    > I emailed the Rich Richardson, the maker of the Raptor, and he replied that I shouldn't worry,
    > that <some number of trike owners less than 50> had had no problems.
    >
    > Last night the bolt sheared. Taylor (who was riding it) flipped the trike and fell out, but
    > was unhurt.
    >
    > This was not a maximum-braking force event. It was on more or less level ground, at low speed, and
    > Taylor is 10 years old.
    >
    > I am repairing the trike and adding a proper brake torque arm; details to follow.
     
  9. Let me buy the trike in question. I will replace the bolt and ride it happily. If he cares about his
    family, he will sell me the trike at a huge discount! I mean, if there is that much concern,, sell
    me the trike. I will offer you $500 dollars for it.
     
  10. Jt

    Jt Guest

    "Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > The Raptor is a nice, clean-looking design and priced better than most recumbent tricycles. I
    > wonder how well the aluminum box-beam frame will hold up with a heavy rider over a long
    > period? Do you make a heavy-duty version of it, which some other tricycle builders will do?
    > Ever consider a quad-cranked tricycle? Do you put fairing mounts on the Raptor's frame?
    >
    > Regarding the sheared bolt in question, I'd replace it with two of them, if I was riding it.
    >

    There's not room for two. There's barely room for one. It's dictated by the size of the aluminium
    plates used, they overlap at the ends and the hole for the bolt is in the corner of the wheel
    mounting plate - there's about 6mm of plate between the hole and the edge.
     
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