Re: Vandeman calls mountain bikers "liars" and "criminals" then surprised by hate mail!

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:KOMgg.16704$B42.11301@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:v5pgg.16630$B42.12942@dukeread05...
>>
>> ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
>>
>>> Amazing how you will take Vandy's word on its own, without even
>>> entertaining the possibility that the hostility generated is from his
>>> own actions. You state a refusal to even conduct a 10 minute search on
>>> the history of his posting on usenet but would still completely
>>> disregard the possibility that so many people of differing backgrounds
>>> have shown how his OPINIONS are often a contradiction or, at least, a
>>> misuse of the "science" he claims as a foundation.
>>> Yet you have also posted negatively towards people of faith, but put the
>>> same type of "faith" in Vandeman and his opinions. I suppose
>>> contradictions attract...
>>>
>>> Top posting is fun, low in calories and can lower your cholesterol with
>>> a regular exercise program.
>>
>> I am only going by what I see in front of me. The reason I will not do
>> any research regarding what anyone has previously said on Usenet is that
>> I do not take this medium seriously. Your many replies to Vandeman is a
>> case in point. You belabor the obvious over and over to no good end.
>> Vandeman is quite right to respond to you with one word replies. I am
>> surprised he pays any attention to you at all. I sure wouldn't.
>
> I'm actually glad he replies. It shows he knows his opinions have no
> foundation and he has to try to derail any challenge on fact by any other
> means at his disposal. (character assasination, name calling, baseless
> claims on the integrity of other research...)
> I would agree, however, his methods and faulty opinions are obvious to
> anyone who cares to look. Your constant of claims of superiority, btw, are
> as valid as Vandy's opinions. Your refusal to look beyond the subject of
> hiking and look at his actual tactics and basis for forming a conclusion
> around his opinions also puts any credibility you may have in question.

Curtiss, I swear to God there is something wrong with the way your brain
works. Vandeman will reply to you with a one or two word reply and you go on
and on driving us all nuts. Whatever it is that you have said, you have
already said it a hundred and one times. You are the sort of person who
would drive me to nothing but cussing and swearing. I wonder, have you taken
courses in how to drive others stark raving mad?

>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get lost.
>> Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain biking on
>> hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>
> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's opinions,
> false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of credibility.
> You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group search "vandeman".
> There has not been ONE single outside source or credited environmental
> scientist or researcher to post in support or in reference. The shame you
> reference does not apply as I have done nothing but point this out.

Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing him,
not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain biker
like you.

> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on wilderness
> trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth hardly matters
> as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.

Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike in
my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.

> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that he
> has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.

Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will do
this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any good.
All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the driven snow
and you are not!

Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the earth.
Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met a hiker who
did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure as hell can't
say the same for mountain bikers.

I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of the
pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and become a
human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course that he
doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HVMgg.16705$B42.14167@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> [...]
>>>> Curtiss is a wonderful example of a cretin who thinks he knows
>>>> something. I place him at the high school level, but a high schooler
>>>> who has done a bit or reading on his own. However, that is not good
>>>> enough for the kind of world we are living in today. He badly needs
>>>> instruction by his superiors. I myself am far too lazy (my very best
>>>> virtue) to bother with him. No, he will have to get on in this old
>>>> world the best he can with what he's got. He will never go far, but
>>>> maybe he can stay one or two steps ahead of all the Mexican peons that
>>>> are pouring into the country.
>>>>
>>> A reference to my education from Conan the Librarian..? Character
>>> assasination...Name calling... You have been reading from the book of
>>> Vandeman again. Oh well, like I said before, this country is founded on
>>> religious freedom.
>>
>> It is the gentlest sort of name calling. You should hear what others on
>> these freaking forums have called me. Some one even had the effrontery to
>> call me a racist and a bigot! Imagine that!
>>
>> I did not attack anyone's religion, but I will be delighted to do so if
>> you wish. Please indicate which group you would like me to focus my venom
>> on. Saint Edward the Great is ever up to the task of attacking (or
>> defending) any religion. There are so many, I hardly know where to begin.
>> I have many good things to say about the ancient religion of
>> Zoroastrianism, if you are interested.
>>
> Perhaps you could explain your blind faith in the word of Vandeman. So
> far, you are his only disciple. You take his word on faith. You refuse to
> accept information that puts his word in question. You refuse to take the
> time to test his word. That is "faith". But you are within your rights to
> follow whatever religion you like. Perhaps you can shave your head, wear a
> flower and take up a collection for "vandenetics".

I am only going by what I am reading currently on these newsgroups. I will
not do any research at all on the Google archives because I know how a
person responds to anything depends on the other person. Since I was not a
party to those discussions, I can't be bothered.

So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a mountain
biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are Saints and mountain
bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.

We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what you are
doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an intelligent person
and you have an excellent command of the language - so I know you have a
functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you may have to be hit by a bolt
to lightning on your way to Damascus before you begin to see the light. You
need to get on the side of the angels and take up the Holy Crusade along
side of Vandeman.

Hikers Forever! Death to Mountain Bikers!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>> I am only going by what I see in front of me. The reason I will not do
>>> any research regarding what anyone has previously said on Usenet is that
>>> I do not take this medium seriously. Your many replies to Vandeman is a
>>> case in point. You belabor the obvious over and over to no good end.
>>> Vandeman is quite right to respond to you with one word replies. I am
>>> surprised he pays any attention to you at all. I sure wouldn't.
>>
>> I'm actually glad he replies. It shows he knows his opinions have no
>> foundation and he has to try to derail any challenge on fact by any other
>> means at his disposal. (character assasination, name calling, baseless
>> claims on the integrity of other research...)
>> I would agree, however, his methods and faulty opinions are obvious to
>> anyone who cares to look. Your constant of claims of superiority, btw,
>> are as valid as Vandy's opinions. Your refusal to look beyond the subject
>> of hiking and look at his actual tactics and basis for forming a
>> conclusion around his opinions also puts any credibility you may have in
>> question.
>
> Curtiss, I swear to God there is something wrong with the way your brain
> works. Vandeman will reply to you with a one or two word reply and you go
> on and on driving us all nuts. Whatever it is that you have said, you have
> already said it a hundred and one times. You are the sort of person who
> would drive me to nothing but cussing and swearing. I wonder, have you
> taken courses in how to drive others stark raving mad?
>
>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get lost.
>>> Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain biking on
>>> hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>
>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or in
>> reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done nothing
>> but point this out.
>
> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain
> biker like you.
You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over and
over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis to make a
claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you could no
longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much less any field
of research or reference.
>
>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on wilderness
>> trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth hardly matters
>> as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>
> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike in
> my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.

No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main objective
is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same manner all across
the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then land that meets the same
criteria in Virginia should be designated the same in all other states.
Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that designate "wilderness" must be
consistent nationwide. This aids in preservation and enforcement. It is
Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all non-paved areas" stance that is
intolerable. Not only because it is unrealistic, but also because the claims
he makes in support of it have no foundation in fact and his presentation as
an "authority" has no validity.
>
>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that he
>> has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>
> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will
> do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any
> good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the
> driven snow and you are not!
Do I laugh now...?
>
> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met a
> hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure as
> hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming any
group of persons above another especially on the basis of an activity. It is
just plain silly.
>
> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of the
> pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and become
> a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course that he
> doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.

My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike or
on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of anyone
else.
Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a good
downhill run to experience your humanity.

However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like Al
Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight into
my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>> Curtiss is a wonderful example of a cretin who thinks he knows
>>>>> something. I place him at the high school level, but a high schooler
>>>>> who has done a bit or reading on his own. However, that is not good
>>>>> enough for the kind of world we are living in today. He badly needs
>>>>> instruction by his superiors. I myself am far too lazy (my very best
>>>>> virtue) to bother with him. No, he will have to get on in this old
>>>>> world the best he can with what he's got. He will never go far, but
>>>>> maybe he can stay one or two steps ahead of all the Mexican peons that
>>>>> are pouring into the country.
>>>>>
>>>> A reference to my education from Conan the Librarian..? Character
>>>> assasination...Name calling... You have been reading from the book of
>>>> Vandeman again. Oh well, like I said before, this country is founded on
>>>> religious freedom.
>>>
>>> It is the gentlest sort of name calling. You should hear what others on
>>> these freaking forums have called me. Some one even had the effrontery
>>> to call me a racist and a bigot! Imagine that!
>>>
>>> I did not attack anyone's religion, but I will be delighted to do so if
>>> you wish. Please indicate which group you would like me to focus my
>>> venom on. Saint Edward the Great is ever up to the task of attacking (or
>>> defending) any religion. There are so many, I hardly know where to
>>> begin. I have many good things to say about the ancient religion of
>>> Zoroastrianism, if you are interested.
>>>
>> Perhaps you could explain your blind faith in the word of Vandeman. So
>> far, you are his only disciple. You take his word on faith. You refuse to
>> accept information that puts his word in question. You refuse to take the
>> time to test his word. That is "faith". But you are within your rights to
>> follow whatever religion you like. Perhaps you can shave your head, wear
>> a flower and take up a collection for "vandenetics".
>
> I am only going by what I am reading currently on these newsgroups. I will
> not do any research at all on the Google archives because I know how a
> person responds to anything depends on the other person. Since I was not a
> party to those discussions, I can't be bothered.

So why bother with any other history? Napolean, Da Vinci, Lincoln....? We
were not a party to their experience.... We did not witness their
discussions... Yet we study and learn. Even you have made reference to
figures of history or knowledge and even recomended reading of them. So why
contradict yourself and avoid actual history when it is so readily
available?
>
> So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a
> mountain biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are Saints
> and mountain bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.
The earth is flat. This is irrefutable.
>
> We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
> disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what you
> are doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an intelligent
> person and you have an excellent command of the language - so I know you
> have a functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you may have to be hit
> by a bolt to lightning on your way to Damascus before you begin to see the
> light. You need to get on the side of the angels and take up the Holy
> Crusade along side of Vandeman.
>
Apparently, I need an overdose of ritalin to think like you and Vandy. I
thank you for the kind words on my intelligence, but that has no bearing on
any of this. You have a fine spiritual experience in the woods. Go have at
it. But do not think for one second that I am going to equate it, you or
Vandeman with Angels, God or any holy quest. It is merely your preference.

> Hikers Forever! Death to Mountain Bikers!
>

 

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Jq_gg.19925$B42.16699@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>> I am only going by what I see in front of me. The reason I will not do
>>>> any research regarding what anyone has previously said on Usenet is
>>>> that I do not take this medium seriously. Your many replies to Vandeman
>>>> is a case in point. You belabor the obvious over and over to no good
>>>> end. Vandeman is quite right to respond to you with one word replies. I
>>>> am surprised he pays any attention to you at all. I sure wouldn't.
>>>
>>> I'm actually glad he replies. It shows he knows his opinions have no
>>> foundation and he has to try to derail any challenge on fact by any
>>> other means at his disposal. (character assasination, name calling,
>>> baseless claims on the integrity of other research...)
>>> I would agree, however, his methods and faulty opinions are obvious to
>>> anyone who cares to look. Your constant of claims of superiority, btw,
>>> are as valid as Vandy's opinions. Your refusal to look beyond the
>>> subject of hiking and look at his actual tactics and basis for forming a
>>> conclusion around his opinions also puts any credibility you may have in
>>> question.
>>
>> Curtiss, I swear to God there is something wrong with the way your brain
>> works. Vandeman will reply to you with a one or two word reply and you go
>> on and on driving us all nuts. Whatever it is that you have said, you
>> have already said it a hundred and one times. You are the sort of person
>> who would drive me to nothing but cussing and swearing. I wonder, have
>> you taken courses in how to drive others stark raving mad?
>>
>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get lost.
>>>> Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain biking on
>>>> hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>
>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or in
>>> reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done nothing
>>> but point this out.
>>
>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain
>> biker like you.
> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis to
> make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you could
> no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much less any
> field of research or reference.

Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already told
you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point of view.

>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>
>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>
> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same manner
> all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then land that
> meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the same in all
> other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that designate
> "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in preservation and
> enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all non-paved areas"
> stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is unrealistic, but also
> because the claims he makes in support of it have no foundation in fact
> and his presentation as an "authority" has no validity.

As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...

>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that he
>>> has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>
>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will
>> do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any
>> good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the
>> driven snow and you are not!
>
> Do I laugh now...?

All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all trails
with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness Areas. That
is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman. You seem to be
totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic areas. There are
innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not suited for cyclists.
Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you cannot see this.

>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met a
>> hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure as
>> hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>
> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming any
> group of persons above another especially on the basis of an activity. It
> is just plain silly.

We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not a
pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.

>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of the
>> pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>
> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
> anyone else.
> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
> good downhill run to experience your humanity.

You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
meet.

> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like Al
> Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight into
> my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.

You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
trails. That much is known for sure.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3G_gg.19926$B42.7313@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Curtiss is a wonderful example of a cretin who thinks he knows
>>>>>> something. I place him at the high school level, but a high schooler
>>>>>> who has done a bit or reading on his own. However, that is not good
>>>>>> enough for the kind of world we are living in today. He badly needs
>>>>>> instruction by his superiors. I myself am far too lazy (my very best
>>>>>> virtue) to bother with him. No, he will have to get on in this old
>>>>>> world the best he can with what he's got. He will never go far, but
>>>>>> maybe he can stay one or two steps ahead of all the Mexican peons
>>>>>> that are pouring into the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A reference to my education from Conan the Librarian..? Character
>>>>> assasination...Name calling... You have been reading from the book of
>>>>> Vandeman again. Oh well, like I said before, this country is founded
>>>>> on religious freedom.
>>>>
>>>> It is the gentlest sort of name calling. You should hear what others on
>>>> these freaking forums have called me. Some one even had the effrontery
>>>> to call me a racist and a bigot! Imagine that!
>>>>
>>>> I did not attack anyone's religion, but I will be delighted to do so if
>>>> you wish. Please indicate which group you would like me to focus my
>>>> venom on. Saint Edward the Great is ever up to the task of attacking
>>>> (or defending) any religion. There are so many, I hardly know where to
>>>> begin. I have many good things to say about the ancient religion of
>>>> Zoroastrianism, if you are interested.
>>>>
>>> Perhaps you could explain your blind faith in the word of Vandeman. So
>>> far, you are his only disciple. You take his word on faith. You refuse
>>> to accept information that puts his word in question. You refuse to take
>>> the time to test his word. That is "faith". But you are within your
>>> rights to follow whatever religion you like. Perhaps you can shave your
>>> head, wear a flower and take up a collection for "vandenetics".
>>
>> I am only going by what I am reading currently on these newsgroups. I
>> will not do any research at all on the Google archives because I know
>> how a person responds to anything depends on the other person. Since I
>> was not a party to those discussions, I can't be bothered.
>
> So why bother with any other history? Napolean, Da Vinci, Lincoln....? We
> were not a party to their experience.... We did not witness their
> discussions... Yet we study and learn. Even you have made reference to
> figures of history or knowledge and even recomended reading of them. So
> why contradict yourself and avoid actual history when it is so readily
> available?

Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
believe any of what I am saying, let alone fools like you! Unless you are
published I cannot read you - and even if you are published it has to be by
a reputable publisher.

>> So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a
>> mountain biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are Saints
>> and mountain bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.
>
> The earth is flat. This is irrefutable.

"Hikers are Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners." - Ed Dolan

>> We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
>> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
>> disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what you
>> are doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an intelligent
>> person and you have an excellent command of the language - so I know you
>> have a functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you may have to be hit
>> by a bolt to lightning on your way to Damascus before you begin to see
>> the light. You need to get on the side of the angels and take up the Holy
>> Crusade along side of Vandeman.
>>
> Apparently, I need an overdose of ritalin to think like you and Vandy. I
> thank you for the kind words on my intelligence, but that has no bearing
> on any of this. You have a fine spiritual experience in the woods. Go have
> at it. But do not think for one second that I am going to equate it, you
> or Vandeman with Angels, God or any holy quest. It is merely your
> preference.

"We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail." - Ed Dolan

>> Hikers Forever! Death to Mountain Bikers!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or in
>>>> reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob mountain
>>> biker like you.
>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis to
>> make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>> less any field of research or reference.
>
> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already told
> you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point of
> view.
And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>
>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>
>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>> validity.
>
> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>
>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I will
>>> do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to any
>>> good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as the
>>> driven snow and you are not!
>>
>> Do I laugh now...?
>
> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
> cannot see this.

People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking, riding
a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of your group
and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for off-road
cyclists.
>
>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I sure
>>> as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>
>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming any
>> group of persons above another especially on the basis of an activity. It
>> is just plain silly.
>
> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not a
> pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.

What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the activity
"special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only do so for
your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist or person and
their motives for doing anything.

>
>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>
>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>> anyone else.
>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>
> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
> meet.
You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>
>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like Al
>> Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>
> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
> trails. That much is known for sure.

For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>> Perhaps you could explain your blind faith in the word of Vandeman. So
>>>> far, you are his only disciple. You take his word on faith. You refuse
>>>> to accept information that puts his word in question. You refuse to
>>>> take the time to test his word. That is "faith". But you are within
>>>> your rights to follow whatever religion you like. Perhaps you can shave
>>>> your head, wear a flower and take up a collection for "vandenetics".
>>>
>>> I am only going by what I am reading currently on these newsgroups. I
>>> will not do any research at all on the Google archives because I know
>>> how a person responds to anything depends on the other person. Since I
>>> was not a party to those discussions, I can't be bothered.
>>
>> So why bother with any other history? Napolean, Da Vinci, Lincoln....? We
>> were not a party to their experience.... We did not witness their
>> discussions... Yet we study and learn. Even you have made reference to
>> figures of history or knowledge and even recomended reading of them. So
>> why contradict yourself and avoid actual history when it is so readily
>> available?
>
> Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
> believe any of what I am saying, let alone fools like you! Unless you are
> published I cannot read you - and even if you are published it has to be
> by a reputable publisher.

Well, idiot. Since you seem so concerned about making your presence on
usenet, and proclaiming your "greatness", you can also proclaim your
contradiction. Either you are "great" or you are an "idiot". Its gotta be
one or the other. Since it is you who just above state usenet is for idiots,
and you claim 8000 posts on it, then you must be a "great idiot". That is
the only combination to make sense. Especially when you state you don't even
believe half of what you say! So, is it "hiking" bad and "biking" good...?
Is that the half you don't believe? How about Vandeman...? Is it his half
you don't believe? How about you stating anything...?
I'll give you this. You are half way there which means you are merely an
incomplete idiot. (Your own logic, dude.)
The rest of us don't believe ANYTHING you say and consider you a Complete
idiot. What you think of us is completely unimportant. Your proclamation of
"the great" is a perfect example of believing halfway. Simply correct it to
"the great idiot" and you will be able to believe everything you say.

Beyond any of that, you again floor me with your contradiction about
Vandeman! Vandy is not "published" and certainly not by a reputable
publisher! Yet you read his current posts as gospel despite the overwhelming
current evidence placed in front of you and choose to disregard further
proof in history. And that statement is a non-answer to the posed question
concerning why you recommend reading history but will not do so yourself.
But what should I expect from a great idiot.
>
>>> So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a
>>> mountain biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are Saints
>>> and mountain bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.
>>
>> The earth is flat. This is irrefutable.
>
> "Hikers are Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners." - Ed Dolan

"Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian
>
>>> We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
>>> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
>>> disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what you
>>> are doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an intelligent
>>> person and you have an excellent command of the language - so I know you
>>> have a functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you may have to be hit
>>> by a bolt to lightning on your way to Damascus before you begin to see
>>> the light. You need to get on the side of the angels and take up the
>>> Holy Crusade along side of Vandeman.
>>>
>> Apparently, I need an overdose of ritalin to think like you and Vandy. I
>> thank you for the kind words on my intelligence, but that has no bearing
>> on any of this. You have a fine spiritual experience in the woods. Go
>> have at it. But do not think for one second that I am going to equate it,
>> you or Vandeman with Angels, God or any holy quest. It is merely your
>> preference.
>
> "We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail." - Ed Dolan

"Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian

 

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:myYhg.20103$B42.1490@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or
>>>>> in reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>>
>>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob
>>>> mountain biker like you.
>>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis
>>> to make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>>> less any field of research or reference.
>>
>> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already
>> told you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point
>> of view.
> And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
> information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.

You want to unbalance what was formerly in perfect balance - when trails
were for hikers only.

>>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>>
>>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>>> validity.
>>
>> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
> As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.

So then, you are working to get more and more areas designated wilderness? I
think not!

>>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>>
>>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I
>>>> will do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to
>>>> any good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as
>>>> the driven snow and you are not!
>>>
>>> Do I laugh now...?
>>
>> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
>> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
>> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
>> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
>> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
>> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
>> cannot see this.
>
> People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
> ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking,
> riding a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of
> your group and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for
> off-road cyclists.

The above has already been addressed many times by me and Vandeman in
previous messages.

>>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I
>>>> sure as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>>
>>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming
>>> any group of persons above another especially on the basis of an
>>> activity. It is just plain silly.
>>
>> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not
>> a pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
>> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
>> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
>> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
>
> What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
> chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
> choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the
> activity "special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only
> do so for your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist
> or person and their motives for doing anything.

The above has already been addressed many times by me in previous messages.

>>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>>
>>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>>> anyone else.
>>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>>
>> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
>> meet.
> You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>>
>>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like
>>> Al Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>>
>> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
>> trails. That much is known for sure.
>
> For sure, you have no clue what I would find.

I recommend that you say 5 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys as your penance
for being an unreconstructed slob mountain biker. The ruination of the
wilderness is on your head. God will punish you for desecrating His
creation.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rUYhg.20104$B42.12477@dukeread05...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>> Perhaps you could explain your blind faith in the word of Vandeman. So
>>>>> far, you are his only disciple. You take his word on faith. You refuse
>>>>> to accept information that puts his word in question. You refuse to
>>>>> take the time to test his word. That is "faith". But you are within
>>>>> your rights to follow whatever religion you like. Perhaps you can
>>>>> shave your head, wear a flower and take up a collection for
>>>>> "vandenetics".
>>>>
>>>> I am only going by what I am reading currently on these newsgroups. I
>>>> will not do any research at all on the Google archives because I know
>>>> how a person responds to anything depends on the other person. Since I
>>>> was not a party to those discussions, I can't be bothered.
>>>
>>> So why bother with any other history? Napolean, Da Vinci, Lincoln....?
>>> We were not a party to their experience.... We did not witness their
>>> discussions... Yet we study and learn. Even you have made reference to
>>> figures of history or knowledge and even recomended reading of them. So
>>> why contradict yourself and avoid actual history when it is so readily
>>> available?
>>
>> Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
>> believe any of what I am saying, let alone fools like you! Unless you are
>> published I cannot read you - and even if you are published it has to be
>> by a reputable publisher.
>
> Well, idiot. Since you seem so concerned about making your presence on
> usenet, and proclaiming your "greatness", you can also proclaim your
> contradiction. Either you are "great" or you are an "idiot". Its gotta be
> one or the other. Since it is you who just above state usenet is for
> idiots, and you claim 8000 posts on it, then you must be a "great idiot".
> That is the only combination to make sense. Especially when you state you
> don't even believe half of what you say! So, is it "hiking" bad and
> "biking" good...? Is that the half you don't believe? How about
> Vandeman...? Is it his half you don't believe? How about you stating
> anything...?
> I'll give you this. You are half way there which means you are merely an
> incomplete idiot. (Your own logic, dude.)
> The rest of us don't believe ANYTHING you say and consider you a Complete
> idiot. What you think of us is completely unimportant. Your proclamation
> of "the great" is a perfect example of believing halfway. Simply correct
> it to "the great idiot" and you will be able to believe everything you
> say.

Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit. Well, I
have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe I will
just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun to see you
huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going.

> Beyond any of that, you again floor me with your contradiction about
> Vandeman! Vandy is not "published" and certainly not by a reputable
> publisher! Yet you read his current posts as gospel despite the
> overwhelming current evidence placed in front of you and choose to
> disregard further proof in history. And that statement is a non-answer to
> the posed question concerning why you recommend reading history but will
> not do so yourself. But what should I expect from a great idiot.

"Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit. Well,
I have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe I will
just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun to see you
huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going." - Ed Dolan

>>>> So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a
>>>> mountain biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are
>>>> Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.
>>>
>>> The earth is flat. This is irrefutable.
>>
>> "Hikers are Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners." - Ed Dolan
>
> "Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
> believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian
>>
>>>> We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
>>>> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
>>>> disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what you
>>>> are doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an
>>>> intelligent person and you have an excellent command of the language -
>>>> so I know you have a functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you may
>>>> have to be hit by a bolt to lightning on your way to Damascus before
>>>> you begin to see the light. You need to get on the side of the angels
>>>> and take up the Holy Crusade along side of Vandeman.
>>>>
>>> Apparently, I need an overdose of ritalin to think like you and Vandy. I
>>> thank you for the kind words on my intelligence, but that has no bearing
>>> on any of this. You have a fine spiritual experience in the woods. Go
>>> have at it. But do not think for one second that I am going to equate
>>> it, you or Vandeman with Angels, God or any holy quest. It is merely
>>> your preference.
>>
>> "We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
>> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail." - Ed Dolan
>
> "Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
> believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian

"Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit. Well,
I have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe I will
just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun to see you
huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going." - Ed Dolan

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:06:46 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:myYhg.20103$B42.1490@dukeread05...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or
>>>>>> in reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob
>>>>> mountain biker like you.
>>>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>>>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis
>>>> to make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>>>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>>>> less any field of research or reference.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already
>>> told you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point
>>> of view.
>> And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
>> information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
>You want to unbalance what was formerly in perfect balance - when trails
>were for hikers only.
>
>>>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support for
>>>>>> cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to bike
>>>>> in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>>>
>>>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>>>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>>>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>>>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>>>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>>>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>>>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>>>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>>>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>>>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>>>> validity.
>>>
>>> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
>> As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
>So then, you are working to get more and more areas designated wilderness? I
>think not!
>
>>>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I
>>>>> will do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up to
>>>>> any good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure as
>>>>> the driven snow and you are not!
>>>>
>>>> Do I laugh now...?
>>>
>>> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
>>> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
>>> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
>>> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
>>> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
>>> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that you
>>> cannot see this.
>>
>> People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
>> ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking,
>> riding a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of
>> your group and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for
>> off-road cyclists.
>
>The above has already been addressed many times by me and Vandeman in
>previous messages.
>
>>>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never met
>>>>> a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities. I
>>>>> sure as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>>>
>>>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>>>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>>>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming
>>>> any group of persons above another especially on the basis of an
>>>> activity. It is just plain silly.
>>>
>>> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not
>>> a pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at all
>>> possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
>>> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
>>> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
>>
>> What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
>> chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
>> choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the
>> activity "special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only
>> do so for your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist
>> or person and their motives for doing anything.
>
>The above has already been addressed many times by me in previous messages.
>
>>>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God and
>>>>> become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of course
>>>>> that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the trail.
>>>>
>>>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a bike
>>>> or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal experience of
>>>> anyone else.
>>>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>>>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>>>
>>> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
>>> meet.
>> You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>>>
>>>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like
>>>> Al Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or insight
>>>> into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>>>
>>> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
>>> trails. That much is known for sure.
>>
>> For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>
>I recommend that you say 5 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys as your penance
>for being an unreconstructed slob mountain biker. The ruination of the
>wilderness is on your head. God will punish you for desecrating His
>creation.

O, heck. EVERY Dolan post is my latest favorite. Your brilliance is
exceeded only by your humor.

>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> "S Curtiss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:myYhg.20103$B42.1490@dukeread05...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try to figure out how to come up with something new to say or get
>>>>>>> lost. Everyone is fed up by now with your inane defense of mountain
>>>>>>> biking on hiking trails in the wilderness. Have you no shame?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, you have it backwords. Everyone is fed up with Vandy's
>>>>>> opinions, false claims, self-appointed status, and baseless claims of
>>>>>> credibility. You can see that if you took 10 minutes on google group
>>>>>> search "vandeman". There has not been ONE single outside source or
>>>>>> credited environmental scientist or researcher to post in support or
>>>>>> in reference. The shame you reference does not apply as I have done
>>>>>> nothing but point this out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman is the expert on the subject and others should be referencing
>>>>> him, not vice versa. After all, Vandeman is a hiker, not a slob
>>>>> mountain biker like you.
>>>> You saying Vandeman is the "expert" is hysterical. You have stated over
>>>> and over research and studies mean nothing to you so you have no basis
>>>> to make a claim of this nature. You can agree with his opinions but you
>>>> could no longer proclaim Vandeman the expert in a field of beans much
>>>> less any field of research or reference.
>>>
>>> Vandeman is the expert from the hiker's point of view. I have already
>>> told you that I do not give a good g.d. about the mountain biker's point
>>> of view.
>> And there is your breakdown, and his. No interest in balance, real
>> information or experience beyond your own narrow mind.
>
> You want to unbalance what was formerly in perfect balance - when trails
> were for hikers only.
You want to live in a romantic past of your own making. Sorry. But reality
has moved on.
>
>>>>>> And you can also try to find ONE single post which I state support
>>>>>> for cycling in designated wilderness. You need to seperate the term
>>>>>> "wilderness" from your discussion as cycling is not allowed on
>>>>>> wilderness trails. But that is your (and his) shortcoming. The truth
>>>>>> hardly matters as long as you can attempt to force your opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtiss, I do not trust you on his issue. I KNOW you would like to
>>>>> bike in my sacred Wilderness on my sacred trails.
>>>>
>>>> No more than I want to ride my bike down a runway at JFK. My main
>>>> objective is consistency. I want areas to be designated in the same
>>>> manner all across the country. If it is "multi-use" in Virginia, then
>>>> land that meets the same criteria in Virginia should be designated the
>>>> same in all other states. Likewise for "wilderness". The standards that
>>>> designate "wilderness" must be consistent nationwide. This aids in
>>>> preservation and enforcement. It is Vandeman's "all bikes banned in all
>>>> non-paved areas" stance that is intolerable. Not only because it is
>>>> unrealistic, but also because the claims he makes in support of it have
>>>> no foundation in fact and his presentation as an "authority" has no
>>>> validity.
>>>
>>> As long as you do not even THINK about biking in wilderness ...
>> As long as the designation is consistant and applied the same everywhere.
>
> So then, you are working to get more and more areas designated wilderness?
> I think not!
Really...? Is that what I said? I hardly think you are "great" enough to
rephrase what I say.
>
>>>>>> Beyond any of that, I enjoy letting Vandy know whenever possible that
>>>>>> he has lost. Your support, btw, has increased his loss tenfold.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vandeman needs some support and I will give it to him. The reason I
>>>>> will do this is because I know mountain bikers and they are never up
>>>>> to any good. All true hikers HATE mountain bikers. Vandeman is as pure
>>>>> as the driven snow and you are not!
>>>>
>>>> Do I laugh now...?
>>>
>>> All I am getting from you is that you want to be able to bike on all
>>> trails with the possible exception of trails in designated Wilderness
>>> Areas. That is not good enough for me any more than it is for Vandeman.
>>> You seem to be totally lacking in an appreciation of nature and scenic
>>> areas. There are innumerable trails outside of wilderness which are not
>>> suited for cyclists. Cyclists ruin such areas for walkers. Funny that
>>> you cannot see this.
>>
>> People ruin it for other people. Inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people
>> ruin it. And inconsiderate, loud, rude, sloppy people can be hiking,
>> riding a horse, riding a bike... Funny how you paint a rosy picture of
>> your group and disregard the same faults you apply as a broad brush for
>> off-road cyclists.
>
> The above has already been addressed many times by me and Vandeman in
> previous messages.
Yes - and it makes for humorous reading!
>
>>>>> Bottom line, hikers are a bit like Saints. We want to connect to the
>>>>> earth. Many of us can only find God in the Wilderness. I have never
>>>>> met a hiker who did not at least have some redeeming human qualities.
>>>>> I sure as hell can't say the same for mountain bikers.
>>>>
>>>> Hikers are eating and breathing human beings. That is all. They are not
>>>> special or "saints". If you want to make a stance for preserving green
>>>> space, then I'm all over it. But do not lower yourself by proclaiming
>>>> any group of persons above another especially on the basis of an
>>>> activity. It is just plain silly.
>>>
>>> We all know how mountain bikers behave in the out of doors and it is not
>>> a pretty sight. Try to get some perspective and some philosophy if at
>>> all possible. Mental attitude is everything when it comes to a proper
>>> appreciation of natural and scenic areas. Only walkers have the right
>>> perspective. All others are wrongheaded and spawn of the Devil.
>>
>> What an insipid and useless comment. Hikers are merely people. Everyone
>> chooses an activity or destination based on their own experience and past
>> choices. There is NOTHING saintly about it. If you want to make the
>> activity "special" to justify your opinion, then do so. But you can only
>> do so for your own being. You can not speak for any other hiker, cyclist
>> or person and their motives for doing anything.
>
> The above has already been addressed many times by me in previous
> messages.
Yes... by saying how "great" and "holy" you are! Hardly a reference for
anyone else but your own ego as "Conan the Librarian".
>
>>>>> I urge Curtiss to abandon his mountain bike and to take up the way of
>>>>> the pilgrim and go hiking in the Wilderness. There he will find God
>>>>> and become a human being able to glory in his humanity - provided of
>>>>> course that he doesn't encounter any mountain bikers while on the
>>>>> trail.
>>>>
>>>> My humanity is quite intact. My experience in any wooded area, on a
>>>> bike or on foot, is my own and in no way reflects the personal
>>>> experience of anyone else.
>>>> Perhaps you need to be clipped into a pair of pedals and let loose on a
>>>> good downhill run to experience your humanity.
>>>
>>> You are into asininity and I am into Saintliness. Never the twain shall
>>> meet.
>> You are no more a saint than I am a Koala.
>>>
>>>> However, I do know that you telling me how to find my humanity is like
>>>> Al Gore telling me which Hummer to buy. You have no reference or
>>>> insight into my being that would allow you to recommend anything to me.
>>>
>>> You will not find your humanity in mountain biking on my sacred hiking
>>> trails. That much is known for sure.
>>
>> For sure, you have no clue what I would find.
>
> I recommend that you say 5 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys as your penance
> for being an unreconstructed slob mountain biker. The ruination of the
> wilderness is on your head. God will punish you for desecrating His
> creation.
I recommend you take the blue one and two red ones. Maybe then the little
voices will stop.
>

 

[S Curtiss]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>> Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
>>> believe any of what I am saying, let alone fools like you! Unless you
>>> are published I cannot read you - and even if you are published it has
>>> to be by a reputable publisher.
>>
>> Well, idiot. Since you seem so concerned about making your presence on
>> usenet, and proclaiming your "greatness", you can also proclaim your
>> contradiction. Either you are "great" or you are an "idiot". Its gotta be
>> one or the other. Since it is you who just above state usenet is for
>> idiots, and you claim 8000 posts on it, then you must be a "great idiot".
>> That is the only combination to make sense. Especially when you state you
>> don't even believe half of what you say! So, is it "hiking" bad and
>> "biking" good...? Is that the half you don't believe? How about
>> Vandeman...? Is it his half you don't believe? How about you stating
>> anything...?
>> I'll give you this. You are half way there which means you are merely an
>> incomplete idiot. (Your own logic, dude.)
>> The rest of us don't believe ANYTHING you say and consider you a Complete
>> idiot. What you think of us is completely unimportant. Your proclamation
>> of "the great" is a perfect example of believing halfway. Simply correct
>> it to "the great idiot" and you will be able to believe everything you
>> say.
>
> Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit. Well,
> I have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe I will
> just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun to see
> you huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going.
Bamboozled...? By "the great" who is now copying my method of posting...?
Perhaps the word you are looking for is "entertained".
>
>> Beyond any of that, you again floor me with your contradiction about
>> Vandeman! Vandy is not "published" and certainly not by a reputable
>> publisher! Yet you read his current posts as gospel despite the
>> overwhelming current evidence placed in front of you and choose to
>> disregard further proof in history. And that statement is a non-answer to
>> the posed question concerning why you recommend reading history but will
>> not do so yourself. But what should I expect from a great idiot.
>
> "Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit.
> Well, I have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe
> I will just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun
> to see you huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going." -
> Ed Dolan
Bamboozled...? By "the great" who is now copying my method of posting...?
Perhaps the word you are looking for is "entertained".
>
>>>>> So what do I know? I know Vandeman is a hiker and I know you are a
>>>>> mountain biker. What else do I need to know pray tell. Hikers are
>>>>> Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners. This is irrefutable.
>>>>
>>>> The earth is flat. This is irrefutable.
>>>
>>> "Hikers are Saints and mountain bikers are Sinners." - Ed Dolan
>>
>> "Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
>> believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian
>>>
>>>>> We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers
>>>>> are slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail. How totally
>>>>> disgusting! I ask you Curtiss - have you no shame at all about what
>>>>> you are doing here on these cycling newsgroups? You seem like an
>>>>> intelligent person and you have an excellent command of the language -
>>>>> so I know you have a functioning brain. However, like St. Paul, you
>>>>> may have to be hit by a bolt to lightning on your way to Damascus
>>>>> before you begin to see the light. You need to get on the side of the
>>>>> angels and take up the Holy Crusade along side of Vandeman.
>>>>>
>>>> Apparently, I need an overdose of ritalin to think like you and Vandy.
>>>> I thank you for the kind words on my intelligence, but that has no
>>>> bearing on any of this. You have a fine spiritual experience in the
>>>> woods. Go have at it. But do not think for one second that I am going
>>>> to equate it, you or Vandeman with Angels, God or any holy quest. It is
>>>> merely your preference.
>>>
>>> "We hikers are like pilgrims seeking the Holy Grail. Mountain bikers are
>>> slobs who are into nothing but "conquering" the trail." - Ed Dolan
>>
>> "Usenet is by and for idiots, that is why! Half the time I do not even
>> believe any of what I am saying...." - Conan the Librarian
>
> "Ah, but what do I believe? Difficult for you to say, you must admit.
> Well, I have got you bamboozled just like I do with all others. I believe
> I will just keep you bamboozled for all eternity. It is just so much fun
> to see you huff and puff and not know whether you are coming or going." -
> Ed Dolan
>
Bamboozled...? By "the great" who is now copying my method of posting...?
Perhaps the word you are looking for is "entertained".