Supplements for Elites

[athletekitch]

Well I can read the title of the thread and its wording suggests "elite cyclists". So far all you have done is tout this miracle vitamin with a convoluted name and shout down anyone with a shard of common sense by threatening disease and death if they dont roll over and buy it. There are suplements that will aid elites and that is what I expected to find however your flagrant tauting of your miracle vitamin has hacked off everyone else including me, and now you dont seem to be up to the discussion because I now what I am talking about and wont give in. It appears you are rattled sunshine.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Well I can read the title of the thread and its wording suggests "elite cyclists". So far all you have done is tout this miracle vitamin with a convoluted name and shout down anyone with a shard of common sense by threatening disease and death if they dont roll over and buy it. There are suplements that will aid elites and that is what I expected to find however your flagrant tauting of your miracle vitamin has hacked off everyone else including me, and now you dont seem to be up to the discussion because I now what I am talking about and wont give in. It appears you are rattled sunshine.

I always find it funny when these people who promote or express great ideas about miracle vitamins (or Power Cranks!) refuse to listen to people who have looked into the research of these things or understand/read the primary literature available. They then believe that science is 'ganging' up on them!

Anyway, more important things here -- back to my beautiful new born boy, Daniel Thomas.

Ric

 

[mitosis]

Okay Jason
I don't consider myself ignorant-but maybe I am-I don't consider myself brainwashed and I do take The Greatest Vitamin in the World and have done so for over a year. Maybe I should just quit trying to help others learn about their health-especially since you are more qualified.
There are a lot of people around where I live that think a product like Shaklee
vitamins that make theirs out of parts of the cotton plant- think this is healthy. I for one don't eat cotton on a daily basis. Do you? Here's to Knowledge
I did not mean to offend you-If I did -I'm sorry


brainwashed

I think I've got it worked out. You've spent a fortune on these supplements and now someone has told you what you probably suspected anyway - that they are of no benefit - you are in denial.

And trying, for your own self respect, to somehow convince the more level-headed of us that you have been spending wisely.

Its not working.

 

[mitosis]

I always find it funny when these people who promote or express great ideas about miracle vitamins (or Power Cranks!) refuse to listen to people who have looked into the research of these things or understand/read the primary literature available. They then believe that science is 'ganging' up on them!

Anyway, more important things here -- back to my beautiful new born boy, Daniel Thomas.

Ric

Congratulations. If its your first you now begin the life of trying to fit in some exercise, sometime during the day.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Congratulations. If its your first you now begin the life of trying to fit in some exercise, sometime during the day.

Many thanks. Daniel's our first, and he was 3 weeks early! I've not trained for a few day's now, but i'm hoping to get out for 90 or so mins tomorrow! Training has to be done, along with work, but most important is Daniel and Helen!

Thanks,
Ric

 

[athletekitch]

Hey Ric

Many congrats, Daniel was pretty keen then!! Best of luck

 

[Felt_Rider]

snip......... There are suplements that will aid elites and that is what I expected to find however your flagrant tauting of your miracle vitamin has hacked off everyone else including me........snip

Watching this verbal tennis match I was trying to figure out your stance on vitamins and supplements. Based your statement highlighted above perhaps I understand a little more of your position and that you are just trying to educate this audience about the promotion of one product and not a general denouncement of all supplements.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Hey Ric

Many congrats, Daniel was pretty keen then!! Best of luck

Thanks. He came early so he can go cycling earlier!

Ric

 

[athletekitch]

Hey Felt rider

You hit the nail on the head mate.

 

[SportDoc]

I am with Ric on this one.

There is not one instance I can recall of someone suffering a vitamin deficiency. Personally, I think the Vitamin industry was created out of fear. You can make any product sound like it is doing you some good. Surely 5 pints of beer every night has some benefit - it helps induce sleep!

Come now - If the vitamin industry went out of business tomorrow I don't think we would be a far less healthy nation for it! (maybe far richer).

Besides, any sedentary adult that is 'needing' to supplement their diet is surely eating burgers, fries and apple fritters too often.

Dangerous thinking. People with cardiovascular disease are quite often deficient in B vitamins that promote the normal metabolism of homocysteine that can ultimately lead to atherosclerosis. Our diets have become so low in Omega-3 fats, specifically DHA-EPA that clinical conditions of the brain are on the rise, i.e. alzheimers, dementia.

Our foods are processed to the point vitamins and minerals are removed, produce is picked early and sprayed with chemicals to ripen it, thus not allowing for the production of all vitamins and minerals. Our soils are depleted which decreases the nutritional quality of our food. A good multivitamin/mineral tablet is essentially a good idea for filling in the "holes" in our diet d/t the aforementioned reasson.

 

[athletekitch]

deja vu.

Been hearing this for fifteen years and still the population grows older. Some basic food science. Chemicals arn't sprayed over fruit/veg. They are stored in an oxygen and light deprived state until they are required and then they are exposed to light and oxygen to ripen.

 

[SportDoc]

deja vu.

Been hearing this for fifteen years and still the population grows older. Some basic food science. Chemicals arn't sprayed over fruit/veg. They are stored in an oxygen and light deprived state until they are required and then they are exposed to light and oxygen to ripen.

We grow older d/t intervention. Living longer on a respirator, 23 medications, etc, etc doesn't count. I have read/been told time and time again that foods are sprayed. Hell, this was from distributors so unless they were lying to me............

 

[athletekitch]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,995339,00.html

As you can see from the above link, the "chemicals" you are infering are not as dangerous as you infer (scaremongering is a common method of persuasion and is now getting a little tiresome). This is a common tactic used to promote supplement sales (not that I have anything against supplements as mentioned previously). The problem I have is aggressive sales pitches that insinuate death and disease if this supplement is not taken. I do think however that people should be educated in what is true and what is false and misleading. As for people ending up on ventilators etc. be realistic.

 

[SportDoc]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,995339,00.html

As you can see from the above link, the "chemicals" you are infering are not as dangerous as you infer (scaremongering is a common method of persuasion and is now getting a little tiresome). This is a common tactic used to promote supplement sales (not that I have anything against supplements as mentioned previously). The problem I have is aggressive sales pitches that insinuate death and disease if this supplement is not taken. I do think however that people should be educated in what is true and what is false and misleading. As for people ending up on ventilators etc. be realistic.

I never said they were dangerous at all, read more carefully and don't put words in my "mouth". This also seems contradictory to your previous post to me that produce isn't sprayed at all. My initial post said not allowing natural ripening decreases nutritional value of food, as does our depleted soils. This has been WELL ESTABLISHED. Thus my assertion that a multivit/min tablet is part of a good healthy lifestyle. I never stated morbidity/mortality is going to happen without a supplement. Increased chances, absolutely. Scare tactics, hardly.

I was also pointing out how a poster said no one dies or suffers illness due to deficiency of vit/min. Complete nonsense. As far as performance goes, the initial point of the thread, research is coming out on Zn supplementation and performance.

For the record, I don't sell supplements. With patients, I actually try to reduce the number they are taking and get to the essentials.

 

[mitosis]

We grow older d/t intervention. Living longer on a respirator, 23 medications, etc, etc doesn't count. I have read/been told time and time again that foods are sprayed. Hell, this was from distributors so unless they were lying to me............

That's a big call to say all fruit and veg are sprayed, as it is to say they are all kept in light and oxygen deprivation. Sounds like the common (and incorrect) call here that chickens are on steroids.

Sprays are used widely on fruit and veg here (mostly insecticides and herbicides), but rarely for ripening.

The worst that happens to most f and v in Australia is cold storage.

I still refute the need for vitamin supplements on the grounds that what we might miss out on quality (if it is true that vitamin and mineral content of some f and v may be lower these days) we make up on quantity.

 

[SportDoc]

That's a big call to say all fruit and veg are sprayed, as it is to say they are all kept in light and oxygen deprivation. Sounds like the common (and incorrect) call here that chickens are on steroids.

Sprays are used widely on fruit and veg here (mostly insecticides and herbicides), but rarely for ripening.

The worst that happens to most f and v in Australia is cold storage.

I still refute the need for vitamin supplements on the grounds that what we might miss out on quality (if it is true that vitamin and mineral content of some f and v may be lower these days) we make up on quantity.

Once again, selective reading. Please highlight where I said all, I seemed to have missed it. Athletekitchen doesn't say all either........... I know distributors who only had "vine ripened" produce. Farmers market is "vine-ripened"/picked ripe produce. Take supplements or don't, doesn't matter to me ,but all available information states otherwise. Cheers.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Once again, selective reading. Please highlight where I said all, I seemed to have missed it. Athletekitchen doesn't say all either........... I know distributors who only had "vine ripened" produce. Farmers market is "vine-ripened"/picked ripe produce. Take supplements or don't, doesn't matter to me ,but all available information states otherwise. Cheers.

I don't have time to get into a proper discussion (see my other thread about my newborn baby), but very briefly, the ACSM Position Stand on micronutrient supplementation is that it's *not* required in athletes who maintain their body mass. See http://www.ms-se.com/pt/pt-core/template-journal/msse/media/1200.pdf

Ric

 

[murphy54]

you eat that stuff? ..wow...

 

[athletekitch]

Elite athletes also need to consider "contamination" of supplements by banned subsatances - quite a few athletes have suffered this prob - hence ACSM and BOA (British Olympic Committee) recommendation to avoid supps.

 

[Lasalles]

So blokes the size of Hoy,Queally,Staff and Mclean have never used any supplements?