Veterans Only Reply To Rude Drivers

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ... By the way, only liberals are consistently wrong on everything. We conservatives are on rare
> > occasions wrong, but never on everything. That is the beauty of conservatism. We are going with
> > tradition and history, both of which have proven track records....
>
> Lets hear it for the conservative values of feudalism, slavery, religious war and religious
> intolerance.

All those conservative values enjoyed a long and honored history, and they all made a lot of sense
at one time. A lot of your liberal values have yet to prove themselves and have had anything but a
long and honored history. Communism for instance is the liberal value par excellence, but the Soviet
experience with it tell us it was just another cuckoo liberal notion.

> We must fight the new heretical ideas of self-determination, human rights, astronomy [1], germ
> theory [2] and democracy.

No, all those values you mention above have now become conservative values too. But that is not to
say they will be around forever, anymore than those old conservative values which you deplore stayed
around forever. Times change, things change. But that is no reason to jump from one jackass notion
to another without rhyme nor reason. Societies should always move very slowly when attempting to
make any major changes.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ... Obviously I am referring mainly to France, Germany, and Russia. But even though we have
> > garnered the support of most European governments, I am very aware that there is very little
> > popular support in most European countries for the American action in Iraq. If Europe were
> > attacked the same way America was attacked this would soon change. There ought to be wide spread
> > popular support in all European countries for the War on Terrorism (of which Iraq is a key part)
> > and until there is I cannot work up much enthusiasm for Europe....
>
> There have been terrorist attacks in Western Europe by fundamentalist Islamic terrorists long
> before September 11, 2001.
>
> Good job of showing your ignorance of events outside the US - how typically "American" (not that
> the US media thinks there is a world outside the US unless US citizens are involved)[1].

Mr. Sherman is ever anxious to make his many small points, always missing the larger picture. There
is such a thing as scale. The 9/11 attack was on the scale of a Pearl Harbor, but that event
(9/11) has never registered on the liberal consciouness because they are so intent on their
liberal domestic agenda that they do not want to be distracted by an external attack by an
enemy. All the previous terrorist attacks in Europe were small scale and not to be compared
with 9/11.

But I did hear some one once say to me that, well, 3,000 are not really so many dead after all! That
is what Mr. Sherman would like us to think too so that we do not have to go to war to take care of
the matter in a permanent way. Their pitiful attempts to run to the UN for a solution are pathetic
and nothing but a cop out. Liberals are forever appeasers and basically cowards who do not want to
confront realities. If Gore were president we would still be dickering with the UN.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives."
> > - Sir Winston Churchill
>
> And neglect not the fact that Sir Winston was himself half-American.

I think his mother was an American if I am not mistaken. However, Winston (that Sir business we
Americans regard as a terrible British affectation) was about as British as it is possible to get.
FDR and Churchill got along quite well. By the way, did you know that before America got into the
war (mainly because of Pearl Harbor) that something like 90% of Americans were against our becoming
involved in that "European War"? Amazing! You can see that FDR had his work cut out for him in order
to get this country into the war.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (Scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Tom: Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Picking on the mongoloid troglodyte?
>
> My current analysis of Ed's assness comes down to two possibilities, although I may be giving him
> too much credit: one, he really believes in all the brutal, pseudo-fascist, violent drivel he
> spews, or two, he's just a terribly consistent troll.

Right mostly on the first count and partly right on the second count. You liberals can never
recognize hyperbole when you see it, so that is why it is so much fun for me to use it on you.

Not a pretty picture either
> way. I take solace in the probability that he's a pretty unhappy guy.

Wrong on that count. I recall when Howard Hughs was asked if he was happy, and he said that he was
about as happy as someone his age could be. A good answer I think. Oh, to be 20 again! But as we all
know, youth is wasted on the young.

> Who else would say that the death of those young college students at Kent State was a GOOD thing?
> More than anything, Ed deserves our pity--whatever the reasons for his attitude. To be honest,
> though, I won't waste much energy on him! It is amazing, though, to see what he comes up with!

Apparently those poor babies, those children, those "kids", who were mercilessly slaughtered at Kent
State is the acid test for you. That is too bad because it marks you as a sentimentalist. My
feelings and sympathies were all with the young soldiers of the National Guard who were attempting
to enforce the law. But you no doubt were an anti-Vietnam war sympathizer at the time and were in
favor of the maximum disorder and lawlessness in order to force a change in our war policy.

I do not want mobs in the streets deciding issues of war and peace, or any other issue either for
that matter. You do provided you find yourself in accordance with the mob. You are in favor of
mobs (I think
Mr. Sherman once expressed this same view on this forum too). Mine is the only morally justified
view since I want to uphold law and order whereas your view is morally reprehensible since you
want to uphold lawlessness and disorder.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Ian]

Edward Dolan must be edykated coz e writed:

> Ian <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<BBCD33D6.15F5E%[email protected]>... ......
>
>> Well maybe, but the guy has had a sad empty life, and it is a kindness to have a "debate" with
>> him now and again, afterall he used to be a librarian! Only books for friends, when I am in
>> Minnesota next year I will be sure to look him up and buy him a beer.
>
> No, I only drink Livingston Cellars Red Rose vino. It is the cheapest wine I can get at the local
> municipal liquor store and yet it is as good as any wine I have ever had. The main thing is that
> it gives me a nice high and it does not give me a headache afterwards. How the deuce do you think
> I get through all these posts here on ARBR without my vino? So, instead of a beer, we shall have
> some vino and make toasts to all the characters to be found here on ARBR.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
In that case I'll bring a bottle of my favourite St Emilion Grand Cru.
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > Bin Laden and his terrorist gangs are about the most ignorant people you can find on the face of
> > the earth. They know next to nothing about anything. They are steeped in their miserable Islamic
> > religion and that is all they know. They are not even living in this century, although they know
> > enough how to get modern weapons and how to murder people.
>
> Backward, parochial, narrow-minded and deluded, yes. Ignorant, no. Stupid, no. They're clearly
> smart enough to elude the US Army for more than 2 years, after being smart enough to plan and
> execute the 9/11 attacks. I'd bet they know plenty about US and world politics, and have done a
> masterful job of deluding thousands of otherwise hopeless young men that their way is the way
> to heaven.

I do not think the Islamic terrorists are stupid, but they are woefully ignorant. They are making
one miscalculation after another because of it. Saddam Hussein was an ignoramus too of course. But
they are not stupid. You cannot survive in the kind of world they live in if you are stupid.
Occasionally they can even be quite smart, but smart like a fox. They are not educated people. Most
importantly of all, they do not understand the West and most particularly they do not understand
Americans. That is why they are ultimately doomed to extinction.

> > > And European nations (mainly France and
> > > > Britain) have been interfering in the affairs of the Middle East from WW I to the present
> > > > day.
> > >
> > > Don't forget Turkey. The Ottoman Empire. And, the interference has been going on for a lot
> > > longer than since WW I.
> >
> > Yes, the Middle East has been a mess for thousands of years because it has been at a cross roads
> > between major empires at various times. Regarding the Ottomans, I suspect the Turks and the
> > Arabs more or less deserved one another. But I don't think the Arabs ever hated the Turks like
> > they hate the West. Apparently the West makes them feel their inferiority too keenly whereas the
> > Turks weren't much better than the Arabs themselves. But I think the West only got heavily
> > involved in the Middle East following the break up of the Ottoman Empire after WW
> > I.
>
> The Arab hatred of things Western mainly stems from US support of Israel. Before 1948, US and
> European interests were welcomed in that region. Beirut was the Paris of the Mid East and lots of
> Western capital went there. When HST overrode his advisors and recognized the Israeli government
> 10 minutes after their declaration of nationhood, the fuse was lit. That decision made sense, but
> no one foresaw the intensity of the Arab response. Not much to do with feeling inferior and
> everything to do with feeling displaced. Then it became religious. At that point, rationality went
> out with the trash.
>
> The sooner US and Europe can extract themselves from that mess, the better. But, it'll
> never happen.

I think you are right in everything you say. But I don't think the US can ever abandon Israel. It is
unthinkable. The Arabs are going to have to learn with that very big fact of life.

I remember I once wanted to go to Beirut, Lebanon and work at the American University back in the
60's, but I think it was already starting to become a slightly dangerous place for Americans. In any
event, I didn't get the job which was probably just as well. I was a bit of an Arabist in my youth
but the Palestinian situation turned me off and then of course the Islamic terrorist situation
really turned me off. Nevertheless, there are certain things I like very much about the Arabs and
their civilization. "Lawrence of Arabia" is my all time favorite movie in that genre.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Scott]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jon Meinecke wrote:
> > ... Or maybe he's just Tom's sock puppet. Hard to imagine a better and more predictable one.
> > Almost lifelike.
>
> My next project: the 1000 post, off-topic, flame-war thread. What controversial topic should I
> choose?
>
> Tom Sherman - Surrounded by 6 Billion Mixed Nuts
>
> "Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

Give 'em hell, Tom! Now this thread is getting interesting. IS Ed just your evil doppleganger (sp)?
Are you just posting and responding to *yourself*? Or is it the other way around? Ed is the "real"
poster and you but his cyber projection? I see a major motion picture in this. Some dejected,
lonely recumbent biker locked into a psychotic duel with his alter ego races down wedgies during
the day, growing ever more radical and conflicted, his political views ever more polarized.
Finally, when ripping down a bike path on his low racer at high speed, he just explodes! That's
bent biker all over.

Cheers,

Scott

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Jon Meinecke wrote:
> > ... Or maybe he's just Tom's sock puppet. Hard to imagine a better and more predictable one.
> > Almost lifelike.
>
> My next project: the 1000 post, off-topic, flame-war thread. What controversial topic should I
> choose?

You could never succeed at that project without my full cooperation. There is no one else here that
will take you up on your every statement like I will. Even when I agree with you, I feel compelled
to disagree for the sake of argument. I think you are finally starting to drive me bonkers. I must
remind myself that even a stopped clock like you are right twice a day and cut you a little slack
every now and then. All this disagreeing with everyone all the time is making me look bad. If only
someone would say something sensible so that I could agree for a change.

Ed Dolan -Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Tom Thompson wrote:
> > ... The sooner US and Europe can extract themselves from that mess, the better. But, it'll never
> > happen.
>
> Wait until an Arab state obtains nuclear weapons [1] - then they could have a nuclear war with
> Israel and there would be no one left alive in the region to continue fighting.
>
> [1] Imagine the possibilities if a fundamentalist group took power in Pakistan.

I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself. Did you see that news report about the
Saudi trying to buy a nuclear weapon from Pakistan? If that were to happen I think it would be the
beginning of the end. Either Israel or the US would have to take out any Saudi nuclear weapon.
Surely they must know that. And I do think Pakistan could become a big problem down the road if a
fundamentalist regime ever came to power there. Again, I think the US would have to do something
about it. I am relieved that even a liberal like you can worry about these things. Maybe there is
hope for us all after all.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Dave Larrington]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> You can see that FDR had his work cut out for him in order to get this country into the war.

I suspect the fact that Mr. A. ****** (Fascist Dictator and Git) declared war on the USA /ma/ have
had something to do with nudging his elbow, though...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Ian]

Edward Dolan must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself. Did you see that news report about the
> Saudi trying to buy a nuclear weapon from Pakistan? If that were to happen I think it would be the
> beginning of the end. Either Israel or the US would have to take out any Saudi nuclear weapon.
> Surely they must know that. And I do think Pakistan could become a big problem down the road if a
> fundamentalist regime ever came to power there. Again, I think the US would have to do something
> about it. I am relieved that even a liberal like you can worry about these things. Maybe there is
> hope for us all after all.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
Come on, a low yield nuclear device is easy to build, the fissionable materials are widely available
in very small quantities, if I spent 6 months getting materials and a week building I could come up
with a viable device, big enough to , say, erase a shopping mall, the device would be the size of a
sports bag. This technology is no longer a mystery, obviously a high yield warhead is a little more
difficult due to the grades required for the fissionable material. What surprises me is why Saudi
wants more nuclear weapons, I suspect they are interested in the triggering mechanism.

--
Ian

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> > Cycling will be forever a sport and a recreation and that is all it will ever be.
>
> So are the millions of people all over the world who use bicycles as daily transport taking part
> in a "sport" or a "recreation"? Enquiring minds wish to know.

They are an interesting subset, but even so they don't amount to much in the larger scheme of
things. The Netherlands is often cited as a country that is on bicycles, but even there I don't
think it is true. I suspect most Dutch get around via their public transport and that they also are
heavily into the private automobile. We will hear soon from DH if what I am saying is incorrect.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> > I'm hoping that Mr. Dolan is simply trolling the group with his posts. I can't believe that he
> > really holds the quasi-nazi beliefs that he's been ranting lately.
>
> I hope it's a troll. Evidence suggests that it is. Remember the troll the other day about he
> thinking the national guard had done the right thing in killing the Kent State students? How could
> any sane person believe that? The people killed were some of them hundreds of feet away, going
> about their business. one an ROTC guy even. The killing was all illegal. If little mr dolan really
> believed what he said, he would be saying that it was right, in this nation of laws, for the
> military to murder people in complete disregard for the law. If he isn't afraid to live in a
> country like this.. then he is well beyond conservatism, all the way to fascism.

See my message no. 135 in this thread for an answer to your conundrum. As far as I know everything
the National Guard did that day was perfectly legal. They were merely upholding the law. It was
the Kent State students who were acting illegally. This has everything to do with democracy and
nothing to do with fascism. It is not even a liberal or a conservative issue. But you are a
sentimentalist and do not like anyone to get killed no matter how much aggravation they cause.
Funny, everyone I know, except my sentimentalist sister, thinks the Guard did exactly the right
thing that day in Ohio.

> I imagine that the sick little man will spew poisonous rhetoric at me but I will no longer honor
> his offal by pawing through it. So to speak. I won't read or write to the guy. Beneath my fairly
> conservative-but-green self to do so %^) There is nobody there to reach. He is gone, shriveled up
> inside somewhere long ago I imagine. A dry little kernel rattling around in acid and hate. <sigh>

Who me? Poisonous rhetoric? I always respond in the spirit in which something is written to me. You
are only so-so. Not bad but not good either. Obviously you do not like what I have been writing, but
I do not recall right off hand ever liking anything you have ever written either.

Your mind is closed and cannot be reached. Your ignorance is unconquerable. But you will continue to
read me because I say interesting things in an interesting way. And you do not have anything better
to do. You should feel honored that I am giving you my full attention at this precise moment in the
history of our existence together on this earth. The fact that we don't agree about anything is a
trifle. Who cares? You are saying what you want to say and I am saying what I want to say. Isn't
that what newsgroups are all about?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (stratrider) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Ed, you certainly get the lefties worked up. Truth is I find that wildly entertaining. Actually, I
> once considered myself both a social and fiscal conservative. While I still consider myself a
> social conservative, I am becoming more of a fiscal moderate. So your categorization of me as a
> moderate is close. Corporate greed has moved me to the middle. Fat cats at the top motivated by
> personal gain (rather than the long term health of the company, the employee, and the customer) is
> the reason. For the sake of kids, and the rest of the nation, that's a trend I hope we can
> reverse.
>
> Jim

Jim, for most of my life I have been a social liberal. But I have despaired of the Dems or the
Repubs ever doing anything much for the common man. What this country sorely needs is a good old
fashion populist party. But in order for that to happen the Dems have got to die and go out of
existence. But even so, I have despaired of Americans ever wanting what I wanted, so I have
concluded that they don't want it.

I am weary to the bone of always being on the outside fantasizing about how things could be.
This country would have to undergo a catastrophe, like the Great Depression, in order for things
to change. I am now a social conservative since I do not want to go to my grave living in a
fantasy world.

The liberals are still living in this fantasy world and what they want will never come to past. The
best they can hope for is a kind of European style social democracy, but even that is a long shot
here in America. We Americans all think we can still become millionaires and that there are no
classes in this country. We think we are all middle class. Nothing could be further from the truth
of course, but that is the way we Americans are.

The fiscal problems are not nearly so insoluble. I am one of the world's penny pinching champions.
Where every one else is spending dollars, I am still spending pennies. So of course, I am a fiscal
conservative. But I don't think it matters much anymore. I now think we do not have to worry much if
we spend ourselves silly. We now have hundreds of thousands of experts looking after our economy. I
say let the experts worry about it.

Most Americans are just concerned about good jobs and this does make the most sense. I sometimes
think the politicians do not have all that much to do with the economy and that it still functions
in business cycles like it always has. Now that the economy is picking up (let us hope) good jobs
should be coming on line shortly and the Dems will lose another big issue for them. It may turn out
that the Iraqi War will be the one and only issue on the table in the next election. If so, that
will be good as I believe the American people need to make a decision on how they want to fight the
War on Terrorism. I continue to be flabbergasted on how most Dems (and all liberals) have not come
to grips with this most important issue of our times.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Ian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BBCEC946.1615F%[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> >
> > I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself. Did you see that news report about
> > the Saudi trying to buy a nuclear weapon from Pakistan? If that were to happen I think it would
> > be the beginning of the end. Either Israel or the US would have to take out any Saudi nuclear
> > weapon. Surely they must know that. And I do think Pakistan could become a big problem down the
> > road if a fundamentalist regime ever came to power there. Again, I think the US would have to do
> > something about it. I am relieved that even a liberal like you can worry about these things.
> > Maybe there is hope for us all after all.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

> Come on, a low yield nuclear device is easy to build, the fissionable materials are widely
> available in very small quantities, if I spent 6 months getting materials and a week building I
> could come up with a viable device, big enough to , say, erase a shopping mall, the device would
> be the size of a sports bag. This technology is no longer a mystery, obviously a high yield
> warhead is a little more difficult due to the grades required for the fissionable material.

No one in this world is worried about "small" nuclear devices. I believe we now have a conventional
bomb (MOAB - the mother of all bombs) that is bigger than what you describe above. We are only
worried about the type of nuclear bombs that can take out whole cities.

> What surprises me is why Saudi wants more nuclear weapons, I suspect they are interested in the
> triggering mechanism.

What surprises me is why the Saudi would want any kind of nuclear weapon at all. I can't imagine
anything more destabilizing. Israel would have to do something. We (the US) have been the guarantor
of their security for decades now. What has changed I wonder other than us being in Iraq. If the
Saudi regime won't behave itself, they will have to go sooner or later. The only reason we keep them
around is because they sell oil to the West and we fear what might replace them. I do think the US
is going to be in the Middle East now for a very long time indeed.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Ian]

Edward Dolan must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
> Jim, for most of my life I have been a social liberal.

You have the outlook of a social communist, strangely enough.

--
Ian

 

[Dh]

> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > > Cycling will be forever a sport and a recreation and that is all it will ever be.
> >
> > So are the millions of people all over the world who use bicycles as
daily
> > transport taking part in a "sport" or a "recreation"? Enquiring minds
wish
> > to know.
>
> They are an interesting subset, but even so they don't amount to much in the larger scheme of
> things. The Netherlands is often cited as a country that is on bicycles, but even there I don't
> think it is true. I suspect most Dutch get around via their public transport and that they also
> are heavily into the private automobile. We will hear soon from DH if what I am saying is
> incorrect.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

What most Dutch do, I can only speculate. For shorter distances (especially in nice weather), I
would bet that the bike is used more than not. Employers offer their employees (via the two major
Dutch bike manufactures) incentives to buy bikes at a discount to use for transportation to and from
work instead of using the car. Roads here, as well as the trains, are very congested (we are the
most densely populated country in the world, 16,000,000 people in the area twice the size of New
jersey) at rush hour , and for shorter distances (in nice weather), as I've already stated, I would
bet that many more people take the bike. (General statement. I know.)

This is a flat country with a integrated system of bike paths; some are set apart from the road and
some are 'with' traffic, but clearly defined nonetheless. Add to all of this the price we pay for
gasoline, ( http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html ) $5.07 a gallon at the moment, and
the smart money is on the bike.

I can't give you the percentage of who rides what, but we have problems here because there are
simply too many cars and the roads can not handle the load. The trains are packed at rush hour, but,
and I'm probably in the minority here, I think the Dutch train system is excellent. The trains are
always on time for me, but I don't use them during rush hour.

The best way to answer your question is to come here and spend some time and see things first hand.
I can only give you my narrow perspective.

... back to lurking. You guys are filling someone's hard drive with this thread. In a hundred years
or so someone will uncover this thread and ... scratch their head.

 

[Captain Dondo]

DH wrote:
> In a hundred years or so someone will uncover this thread and ... scratch their head.
>
>

The most intelligent observation for this thread - or perhaps all of usenet.....

-Dondo

--
What am I on? I'm on my bike, o__ 6 hours a day, busting my ass. ,>/'_ What are you on? --Lance
Armstrong (_)\(_)

 

[Scott]

Well said! Scott

[email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I'm hoping that Mr. Dolan is simply trolling the group with his posts. I can't believe that he
> > really holds the quasi-nazi beliefs that he's been ranting lately.
>
> I hope it's a troll. Evidence suggests that it is. Remember the troll the other day about he
> thinking the national guard had done the right thing in killing the Kent State students? How could
> any sane person believe that? The people killed were some of them hundreds of feet away, going
> about their business. one an ROTC guy even. The killing was all illegal. If little mr dolan really
> believed what he said, he would be saying that it was right, in this nation of laws, for the
> military to murder people in complete disregard for the law. If he isn't afraid to live in a
> country like this.. then he is well beyond conservatism, all the way to fascism.
>
> I imagine that the sick little man will spew poisonous rhetoric at me but I will no longer honor
> his offal by pawing through it. So to speak. I won't read or write to the guy. Beneath my fairly
> conservative-but-green self to do so %^) There is nobody there to reach. He is gone, shriveled up
> inside somewhere long ago I imagine. A dry little kernel rattling around in acid and hate. <sigh

 

[Tom Sherman]

GeoB wrote:
>
> > I'm hoping that Mr. Dolan is simply trolling the group with his posts. I can't believe that he
> > really holds the quasi-nazi beliefs that he's been ranting lately.
>
> I hope it's a troll. Evidence suggests that it is. Remember the troll the other day about he
> thinking the national guard had done the right thing in killing the Kent State students? How could
> any sane person believe that? The people killed were some of them hundreds of feet away, going
> about their business....

It was the students fault - they should have been serving in Vietnam, not avoiding their duty to the
country by getting student draft deferments.

On second thought, the above argument puts all the neo-conservatives in the Bush II administration
and media who avoided serving in Vietnam [1] in a rather bad light.

[1] <http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html>

Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson