Weight-Lifting for Legs

[gman0482]

Common sense?. Coincidence?.

LOL, seriously ?? Yea for some reason I don't think common sense and coincidence go hand in hand with solid proof, but give it a try Chaps.

 

[Chapeau!]

LOL, seriously ?? Yea for some reason I don't think common sense and coincidence go hand in hand with solid proof, but give it a try Chaps.

To be a great athlete you have to train force & velocity to achieve greater power.

Fergs places masses of emphasis on velocity through (specificity). Wheres his force factor?. Hes using the bike for it (too light). Its not compatible with applying velocity and force, hence major (power shortage).

If Oz & Great Britain train force & velocity, fergs methods will get left in the dust.

 

[Chapeau!]

CyclingNews Forum - View Single Post - Leg strength

But you can ride at 42kph. Therefore you have all the strength you need. I would be training to sustain your goal speed for the event. That is what limits you.

This is where I have trouble following your logic. Do you think the above uniquely applies to cycling? Because most other sports training features increasing one's maximum one-time (or short-time) effort as a component of maximizing his endurance at sub-maximal efforts. Even marathon runners, for instance, do sprint work on the track. And increasingly, elite distance runners do strength training as well (in the manner described by the articles I linked to earlier that you dismissed offhand):their coaches must believe it will provide them more benefit than additional running miles would.

stephens. Hence fergie, Coogan & Alex Simmons are way behind the times for training top athletes.

Please note; there critisizing the methods of some of the worlds top coaches that got there riders to the top. Them guys haven't got to the top nor have they produced a top rider.

There anecdotes have been duly noted.

 

[acoggan]

CyclingNews Forum - View Single Post - Leg strength





stephens. Hence fergie, Coogan & Alex Simmons are way behind the times for training top athletes.

Please note; there critisizing the methods of some of the worlds top coaches that got there riders to the top. Them guys haven't got to the top nor have they produced a top rider.

There anecdotes have been duly noted.

1. Who is "stephens", and why should anyone give any credence to their claims?

2. "Coggan", not "Coogan".

3. "they're" and "their", not "there".

4. I've got emails from a half-dozen or so national champions saved, all thanking me for the assistance I have provided in their quest to win at that level. I also routinely receive requests for advice from coaches working with (among others) world champions and (gasp!!) Armstrong himself, as well as from various ProTour squads. All this, despite the fact that I'm not a coach, and have never claimed to be one...

 

[acoggan]

your opinion on this goes against the grain of absolutely everything I have ever heard, read, known, or done. Although the world sometimes goes for long stretches on false beliefs - (bloodletting, anyone?) - I still use this reason, whether right or wrong, to lay the burden of proof on you. Basically to prove that athletes, including the world class athletes such as Lance or Mark, would have made no gain from, or been better off without, the weight training.

As a subject matter expert (PubMed references available upon request ), I think you have it 100% bass-ackwards. That is, based on first principles/basic knowledge of exercise physiology, the logical hypothesis is that weight training would NOT benefit endurance cycling performance. Thus, the onus is actually on the proponents of this form of training to provide definitive evidence of its efficacy, something that so far (after a decade or more of me harping on this point) they have been unable to do.

As for Carmichael, Friel, etc.: while they may not necessarily agree with me 100%, they all definitely pay attention to what I have to say...

 

[acoggan]

To be a great athlete you have to train force & velocity to achieve greater power.

There is no scientific evidence to support this claim, even when speaking of non-sustainable power (i.e., not endurance cycling). In fact, "textbook knowledge" is S.A.I.D., i.e., Specific Adaptations to Induced Demands (meaning that if, e.g., your goal is to produce more power at 120 rpm, you're best off practicing producing more power at 120 rpm).

 

[swampy1970]

Hence fergie, Coogan & Alex Simmons are way behind the times for training top athletes.

Please note; there critisizing the methods of some of the worlds top coaches that got there riders to the top. Them guys haven't got to the top nor have they produced a top rider.

There anecdotes have been duly noted.

I do believe that Andy was a national and state champion on the ol' velocipede. Andy's wife was (and probably still is) extremely rapid on the track, which one would expect from being a national champion...

Anecdotes? Not only could Andy school you in theory, he'd probably hand your as$ to you on a plate in a time trial too.

 

[fergie]

There is no scientific evidence to support this claim, even when speaking of non-sustainable power (i.e., not endurance cycling). In fact, "textbook knowledge" is S.A.I.D., i.e., Specific Adaptations to Induced Demands (meaning that if, e.g., your goal is to produce more power at 120 rpm, you're best off practicing producing more power at 120 rpm).

Chaps is in my ignore list with Roadhouse. Ignorance of others ignorance is also bliss

 

[Jono L]

Chaps is in my ignore list with Roadhouse. Ignorance of others ignorance is also bliss

But you miss the comedy repartee

 

[fergie]

But you miss the comedy repartee

Dude I'm far too busy, don't you know that I coach every single cyclist in New Zealand, have single-handedly banished any form of gym training and the sole fate of the New Zealand riders at the Commonwealth Games rest's in my hands!!!

 

[fergie]

1. Who is "stephens", and why should anyone give any credence to their claims?

You mean with a Phd and over 100 peer review publications you haven't heard of Stephens???

Why he has a modem and is an expert Google and Youtube search user. This has allowed him access to intimate and detailed information on the training of all Elite Cyclist's and because Fabian Cancellara once performed a 200kg deadlift it's obvious beyond a shadow of a doubt that we should all train in the gym and because Victoria Pendleton trains in the gym 3 times a week this is conclusive evidence that this is the optimal frequency for strength work.

These are FACTS not claims, and should anyone disagree I will respond with caps off and if I'm really mad I will bust out the underline!!! Don't make me go there

 

[Jono L]

Dude I'm far too busy, don't you know that I coach every single cyclist in New Zealand, have single-handedly banished any form of gym training and the sole fate of the New Zealand riders at the Commonwealth Games rest's in my hands!!!

Hmm well New Zealand is a pretty small community, I figure you can handle all that

 

[fergie]

Hmm well New Zealand is a pretty small community, I figure you can handle all that

If we lose in Delhi it's because our 4th rider in the teams pursuit is a sheep we trained to ride a bike.

 

[Chapeau!]

Sorry Coggan, your way off.

That is, based on first principles/basic knowledge of exercise physiology, the logical hypothesis is that weight training would NOT benefit endurance cycling performance.

Care to show me a study showing that weight training/greater core strength significantly decreases cycling endurance performance?.

There is no scientific evidence to support this claim.

So obviously you don't watch sports such as athletics?, track & field?, 100m sprinting, track sprinting etc.

You want to sprint faster, JUST sprint all day, you want to jump further, jump all day, want to throw the shot or javelin further, just keep solely throwing the shot & javelin, you want to be a better, faster, stronger footballer, JUST play football.

Take a walk.

In fact, "textbook knowledge" is S.A.I.D., i.e., Specific Adaptations to Induced Demands (meaning that if, e.g., your goal is to produce more power at 120 rpm, you're best off practicing producing more power at 120 rpm).

But the fact of the matter is, if Chris Hoy & Victoria Pendleton didn't lift weights, they wouldn't achieve there MASSIVE power outputs. Specificity alone leads to a brick wall for developing greater watts. Track sprinters who generate the greatest watts (2300) have proved it. Guys who sprint the 100m faster have proved it. FACT.


So going back to your original quote, "your goal is to produce more power at 120 rpm, you're best off practicing producing more power at 120 rpm"

What happens when your body can't produce any more power at 120 rpm?. Let me guess, you have been putting out relatively the same number of wattages for over a number of years?. Figures.

Your never going to reach your FULL athletic potential or get to the very top using them methods aka Armstrong, Pendleton, Hoy, Cancellara etc.

That is the reality, as specificity alone can only take athlete (in any top sport) so far.

I do believe that Andy was a national and state champion on the ol' velocipede.

But could have been athletically so much greater.

 

[gman0482]

Sorry Coggan, your way off.
Sorry to say but that is reality.

LOL, you crack me up. Let's compare your credentials with Dr.C.


Chaps, I was thinking about doing some barbell wrist curls, to improve my shifting efficiency and power. What do you think?

 

[Chapeau!]

Chaps, I was thinking about doing some barbell wrist curls, to improve my shifting efficiency and power.

Troll.

 

[jsirabella]

Lance Armstrong, Victoria Pendleton, Chris Hoy, Anna Meares, Fabian Cancellara, Shanaze Reade, Tony Martin etc, you have been warned.

Fergie states so.


Queen of the Track; Victoria Pendleton.

Arguably the best ever; Lance Armstrong.

I wonder if these legends will listen to a duff?.

This **** comes up every year at this time and I can see the usual suspects have gotten tired dealing with it. Weight lifting will do nothing for cycling and if anything it takes away precious time and energy needed to do better at cycling. Want to do better at cycling, do more cycling. The question is what program to do to improve?

But thanks for the photo of Pendleton, nice backside. I wouldn't mind starring at that for a few loops...

-js

 

[Chapeau!]

In fact, "textbook knowledge" is S.A.I.D., i.e., Specific Adaptations to Induced Demands (meaning that if, e.g., your goal is to produce more power at 120 rpm, you're best off practicing producing more power at 120 rpm).

Quite simply, you can only "practice" producing more power at 120 rpm for so long.

Then the body/mind/CNS needs to produce a greater stimulus to increase on that.

 

[jsirabella]

Quite simply, you can only "practice" producing more power at 120 rpm for so long.

Then the body needs to produce a greater stimulus to increase on that.

You keep talking about power. The closest exercise that emulates cycling in most gyms is the leg press. How much power is needed to leg press say 300lbs or even put better to produce 300 watts on a leg press machine how much weight is required?

I remember someone did the math and it was almost no weight at all. Cycling requires so little strength in the conventional definition of strength that you do not need to get stronger. We all have enough strength to do well at cycling it is the other systems of the body you need to train to get better at cycling.

-js

 

[Chapeau!]

Weight lifting will do nothing for cycling and if anything it takes away precious time and energy needed to do better at cycling.

Your anecdote has been duly noted.

Them cycling legends I refer too are finally going to drop weight training altogether from there programs via your advice.