Your 2010/current power profile metrics...



bubsy

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Sep 5, 2004
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Max, my power for longer durations was never affected by weight loss even when I was down around 66kgs, not sure what my 5's - 1 min power would be like at that weight as I never spent much time training it,
but at 73kg I set both 5's and 1 min bests, and no doubt I will set new pb's in the coming months when I start to freshen up for the RR season and by then I'll be at my usual fighting weight of ~73kg,
I might try to drop a little more this season but it's stressful and not pleasant training hard for long periods of time when your consistantly running a calorie deficit,
for me it's never a concern of loosing power but loosing the ability to rack up quality training, I train hard and I train alot, the thing is that the fitter you get the harder it is to maintain that fitness and it's even harder to improve fitness, add to that an extended weight loss program and BAD things tend to happen.
 

Felt_Rider

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2004
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Originally Posted by bubsy .

Max, my power for longer durations was never affected by weight loss even when I was down around 66kgs, not sure what my 5's - 1 min power would be like at that weight as I never spent much time training it,
but at 73kg I set both 5's and 1 min bests, and no doubt I will set new pb's in the coming months when I start to freshen up for the RR season and by then I'll be at my usual fighting weight of ~73kg,
I might try to drop a little more this season but it's stressful and not pleasant training hard for long periods of time when your consistantly running a calorie deficit,
for me it's never a concern of loosing power but loosing the ability to rack up quality training, I train hard and I train alot, the thing is that the fitter you get the harder it is to maintain that fitness and it's even harder to improve fitness, add to that an extended weight loss program and BAD things tend to happen.
This is a good post IMO.

I once competed in an activity where as much lean muscle mass was the ultimate goal. Toward the latter years of competition of bulking up in the off season and then having to lean up year after year I figured out what worked best for me and it (training philosophy) now carries over into cycling where fueling for training is even more important because it is not for vanity sake.

Back in the day there was a general guide to not lose more than a 1.5 lbs per week so that your training intensity or load would not decline, but I found it better to go at an even slower pace of 0.5 lbs per week (not counting the first weeks of fluid loss, which could be upward to 10 lbs for some of us). The common theme was to cut carbohydrates since protein always stayed about the same amount year round or we sometimes increased it as security to hopefully prevent atrophy while reducing calories. I would take my target date and estimate back from that at 0.5 lbs per week to see when I needed to start with another 2 week contingency because there are going to be times weight loss is going to stall. Losing weight this slowly is less of a jolt than a sudden attempt to lose a massive amount in a short time span. While losing at a 0.5 or less than a 1 pound per week I could still maintain intensity and train with heavy weight. The old school method was carb depletion and training on that was miserable and a failure for me.

Most importantly, and to your point, was a priority rule I formed for myself, "always fuel your training." With cycling or endurance activities it certainly seems much more important IMO. I would prefer to focus on FTP improvement as a primary with hopes that subtle little tweaks to the nutrition intake to improve w/kg. I am just now getting to that point with cycling to manage calories depending on the duration, intensity and balance that with reducing body fat while not risking the important aspect of recovery.

Personally I am going to stick with Busby and fuel my training as a priority.
 

maxroadrash

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Dec 1, 2012
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Originally Posted by bubsy .

Max, my power for longer durations was never affected by weight loss even when I was down around 66kgs, not sure what my 5's - 1 min power would be like at that weight as I never spent much time training it,
but at 73kg I set both 5's and 1 min bests, and no doubt I will set new pb's in the coming months when I start to freshen up for the RR season and by then I'll be at my usual fighting weight of ~73kg,
I might try to drop a little more this season but it's stressful and not pleasant training hard for long periods of time when your consistantly running a calorie deficit,
for me it's never a concern of loosing power but loosing the ability to rack up quality training, I train hard and I train alot, the thing is that the fitter you get the harder it is to maintain that fitness and it's even harder to improve fitness, add to that an extended weight loss program and BAD things tend to happen.
Bubsy-
I get what you're saying. Reason I asked was because the obvious is oft stated, i.e. that losing weight will increase W/kg but I've never seen anyone actually address HOW to test
what for that Golden Weight. It would seem to be extremely difficult because your fitness is never going to be static and to change your weight you would have to run such a small calorie deficit over such a long period in order for it not affect your training. Another one of those more "art than science" things I suppose.

Maxroadrash
 

bgoetz

Active Member
Nov 25, 2010
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I am dropping weight right now to the tune of 1.5lbs per week and I will tell you it is not easy sometimes. My FTP is still down about 20watts from my peak last year, but I think that number is very deceiving because most of my training has been indoors and I don't produce nearly as much power. I actually "feel" every bit as strong on the bike, but I have been training hard for 6 weeks now. I figured I would keep at the weight loss until the end of January and then try to bring back calories to an even state. My concern is, and Felt maybe you can help with this, how to do that without overdoing it and gaining weight. It seems that my weight fluctuates a lot more when I am not trying to lose weight (5-10lbs some days), so it can be difficult to keep tabs on my "true" weight.
 

maxroadrash

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Dec 1, 2012
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Originally Posted by bubsy .

Max, my power for longer durations was never affected by weight loss even when I was down around 66kgs, not sure what my 5's - 1 min power would be like at that weight as I never spent much time training it,
but at 73kg I set both 5's and 1 min bests, and no doubt I will set new pb's in the coming months when I start to freshen up for the RR season and by then I'll be at my usual fighting weight of ~73kg,
I might try to drop a little more this season but it's stressful and not pleasant training hard for long periods of time when your consistantly running a calorie deficit,
for me it's never a concern of loosing power but loosing the ability to rack up quality training, I train hard and I train alot, the thing is that the fitter you get the harder it is to maintain that fitness and it's even harder to improve fitness, add to that an extended weight loss program and BAD things tend to happen.
That's a huge daily calorie deficit to be running while training hard. You don't feel that you are compromising your ability to train hard while doing that?
 

fluro2au

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Mar 6, 2012
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Gday bubsy, Sitting at care in bright. Did a nice ride up my beauty this morning. Getting to your idea weight is not that hard...it all comes down to timing. If your timing is out, you'll store fat. Like someone else said always fuel to train. Never let lack of fuel effect your training. You don't need a lot while training but it does need to be there. I find the key is not to fuel straight after a workout. This the best time for the body to metabolize fat and get good at it. If you eat too soon,you'll realise insulin, supress fat stores and keep weight on. If you're only riding once per day that gives you 24hrs to replenish. Therefore use that window after a workout by not eating and allow the body to chew on it's on fat stores Paul
 

Felt_Rider

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2004
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Originally Posted by bgoetz .

Felt maybe you can help with this, how to do that without overdoing it and gaining weight. It seems that my weight fluctuates a lot more when I am not trying to lose weight (5-10lbs some days), so it can be difficult to keep tabs on my "true" weight.
My weight can fluctuate a lot in a day with fluid retention and loss as well.

I would be leaning more toward what fluro(Paul) stated or something similar. Fuel your training enough to progress and then make sure you do not take in too much following is simple, but all I have to offer. We often hear of how important it is for recovery to replace the glycogen following training with a Carb/Protein ratio, but what I see mostly from friends is too much simple carbs immediately following. Or you can try what Paul stated and delay just a bit. I tend to go ahead with protein fairly quickly following training because it doesn't have as negative impact to weight gain and carbohydrates there seems to be a very fine line for those of us that are not natural ectomorphs.

But I will be honest I am still working out how to manage my intake to balance out body composition, fueling training and adequate recovery. It is a very fine line especially since my metabolism seems to be far more stubborn once I past the 40 year mark and those good hormones also started declining even faster. Ugh!! So I am still trying to figure it out as well. It is a far different beast compared to the gym days. I never heard the word bonk until I got into cycling. I still go to the gym on an empty stomach and can lift just fine (can't do that on multiple days of low carbs). I can't do that even for an indoor L4 training session and expect to make to the end of 60 minutes without fading.
 

bubsy

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Sep 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by maxroadrash .


That's a huge daily calorie deficit to be running while training hard. You don't feel that you are compromising your ability to train hard while doing that?
Sorry maybe you missunderstood my post, I "don't" run a calorie deficit while training hard as bad things tend to happen, right now I am training hard and alot and I am pretty much eating anything I want and as much as I want and I'm hovering between 75 -77kg,
come mid year when Road racing I will tighten up the diet and hover between 73-75kg may be a fraction lighter for my key races,
If I tighten up the diet too much or for too long it's almost impossible for me to train anywhere near what I am doing right now (800 -1100 TSS p/wk) and alot of that is HIT L7 type stuff 12 -30's maximal efforts and up to 4 sessions a day on heavy days,
so to answer you question even though I'm not running a calorie deficit right now yes it does hinder progress.
 

maxroadrash

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Dec 1, 2012
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Thanks for clearing that up Bubsy. I was really thinking you were some kinda mutant /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif!
 

zwiggelbig

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Jan 17, 2011
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Hi just want to say I love this forum!! People are so helpfull and their is so much to learn here! Ok yesterday I did 3x20. First: 195w 170hf. 2nd: 211w 171hf. 3rd: 225w 171hf Never did 60min but that would also be at a higher heartrate I guess? My max is 201. 1 minute I had 390.yesterday and a few at 430w but only 50 seconds grr.. 5s 960w Watt max 1260 30 min 240w 15min 254w I am 169cm and weight 54kg. I startes real riding in 2010 adter that winter did my first race season. But did not train much. Then did a good winter but got an I jury for an entire season. Another good winter and now I'm here. I don't have much high intensity training or powertraining done yet. So my question is. Is this a bit good and can I make alot of progress? 23btw. In 1,5 season still haven't raced out a race yet :( I'm the biggest laugh in the peleton here. Live in Holland ride at elite. But just won"t give up ^^. I hope with insane training like wiggo did I could eventually hit 6w a kg substained!
 

cheetahmk7

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2010
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bubsy said:
Sorry maybe you missunderstood my post, I "don't" run a calorie deficit while training hard as bad things tend to happen, right now I am training hard and alot and I am pretty much eating anything I want and as much as I want and I'm hovering between 75 -77kg, come mid year when Road racing I will tighten up the diet and hover between 73-75kg may be a fraction lighter for my key races,  If I tighten up the diet too much or for too long it's almost impossible for me to train anywhere near what I am doing right  now  (800 -1100 TSS p/wk) and alot of that is HIT L7 type stuff 12 -30's maximal efforts and up to 4 sessions a day on heavy days, so to answer you question even though I'm not running a calorie deficit right now yes it does hinder progress.
With that training load you should be all set for the Wagga to Albury. Seven weeks out and I'm averaging 400 TSS points a week. If you ever want to check the calibration if your PT just let me know. Cheers, Rohan
 

bubsy

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Sep 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by cheetahmk7 .


With that training load you should be all set for the Wagga to Albury. Seven weeks out and I'm averaging 400 TSS points a week.

If you ever want to check the calibration if your PT just let me know.

Cheers,
Rohan
Yeh hope so, the training load has shifted more towards endurance this time of year,
The Wagga classic this w/end will be a good warm up to see where we are at, I see you are on the start list!
It's the first time this year I'll be completely rested for a race ~250 TTS for the 7 days leading up to Saturday... already feeling bored and it's only monday!
Waiting for the handicaps to go up....hope they are feeling generous, havn't come close to placing in anything this year.
 

smaryka

Member
Aug 18, 2009
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Originally Posted by zwiggelbig .

Hi just want to say I love this forum!! People are so helpfull and their is so much to learn here! Ok yesterday I did 3x20. First: 195w 170hf. 2nd: 211w 171hf. 3rd: 225w 171hf
Never did 60min but that would also be at a higher heartrate I guess? My max is 201.

1 minute I had 390.yesterday and a few at 430w but only 50 seconds grr..
5s 960w
Watt max 1260
30 min 240w
15min 254w

I am 169cm and weight 54kg. I startes real riding in 2010 adter that winter did my first race season. But did not train much. Then did a good winter but got an I jury for an entire season. Another good winter and now I'm here. I don't have much high intensity training or powertraining done yet.

So my question is. Is this a bit good and can I make alot of progress? 23btw. In 1,5 season still haven't raced out a race yet /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif I'm the biggest laugh in the peleton here. Live in Holland ride at elite. But just won"t give up ^^. I hope with insane training like wiggo did I could eventually hit 6w a kg substained!
I've only raced women's stuff in Holland, how are you racing elite there with those numbers? (no offense, but you said yourself you haven't finished a race yet, so I assume you're struggling at the elite level?)

In any case, you need to do some proper testing to know your real numbers, not take them from a race. I occasionally set peak power numbers in races but rarely at exactly 5s, 1min, 20min, etc. Go out and do some testing -- 1 min, 5 min and 20 min efforts -- as hard as you can and then come back and post them. The numbers you posted aren't that good (very similar to mine as a 52kg woman) but you may make a lot of progress over the next couple of years, who knows? Have to think at 23 you have lots to come, especially on the endurance side. Max and 5sec power is much better than mine though!
 

zwiggelbig

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Jan 17, 2011
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Hii thanks soo much for replying! Yea steuggling alot. Although in classics and big loop races I did kept going further and further each time. First race was just 5km secons 12 last 25km. Yea we went climbing with team. I beat every one the steep slopes but the long ones... The only stpid thing is that I hope to achieve a small continental team in the future! If my sustained watts get to 6w pkg? That even possible though.. I want to work really hard and train alot. Currently at 15-20hours a week rides. Just started more intensity. This winter Scott Saifer guided me. My training watts went from 130 to 170 avg atm!
 

bjrchch

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Jun 11, 2013
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76kg male All in training 5sec 1240w 1min 782w 30sec 976w 5min 480w flat road 20min 424w hill rep 60min 380w flat road 90min 380w flat road
 

zwiggelbig

New Member
Jan 17, 2011
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My results where training but the 20min intervals where at 170 heartrate while my max is 201.

Anyone got an idea how much watts p kg you need to get to the final 5km in a climbing race continental level maybe? Don't mean pro continental.
So if my watt max and my 5s is high.. If I could just get to the last 5km follow to the top and then sprint on an uphill finish like the cauberg for example?

I am really curious where my limit is.. I will try to find out by doing up to 20 hours a week, or would I even need to do more then that?
I'm 169cm btw. Cycilng is such a mean sport. Its all about nrs in the first place. How much you train and work and live for it comes only second..

But seeing Bradley Wiggins his progress at the pro's even thats huge.. He even said if he goes training 6 hours but his freewheeling would be 30min he would do an extra 30 min.. I don't see many guys do that!
 

daveryanwyoming

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Oct 3, 2006
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Originally Posted by zwiggelbig .
...Anyone got an idea how much watts p kg you need to get to the final 5km in a climbing race continental level maybe?...
Sure, take a look at the power profiling chart back on page 8 of this thread: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/474436/your-2010-current-power-profile-metrics/105#post_4015270

To have a good chance at hanging with domestic pros in a 5 minute climb you'd want somewhere around 6.5 w/kg for 5 minutes. Of course you'd also have to have enough FTP and enough short burst power and enough riding skills to get to the base of that 5 minute climb in pretty good shape near the front of the field.

-Dave
 

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