An experiment to prove the helmet law proponants RIGHT (or wrong)



On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Edward Dolan wrote:

>
> "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Edward Dolan wrote:
> > <snip>
> >>
> >> The Iraqis are reaping what they have sown via their former tyrant,
> >> Sadaam
> >> Hussein. I never entirely excuse a people for the kind of governance they
> >> have. If the Arabs had more love of freedom and democracy and less love
> >> of
> >> tyrants and autocracy, maybe they wouldn't always be so miserable. But
> >> the
> >> very first thing they have to do in order to enter the present century is
> >> to
> >> reform their Muslim religion which is an abomination.
> >>
> > <snip>
> >
> > How much do you know about Islam? I mean, in contrast to what you
> > hear about extremists on the television. It is no more of an abomination
> > than any other faith. Or are you merely athiest?
>
> What is there to know? All you have to do is take note of their behavior in
> the world. They are nothing but trouble wherever they are found. The reason
> they are trouble is because of their religious beliefs. Muslims can only
> live with other Muslims - where only they can appreciate all the preying
> that goes on among themselves.
>
> If you are a Christian or a Jew, why not go to a Muslim country and try to
> live there and see how they treat you. Trust me on this - you won't like it.
> You will most likely be murdered. But that is ever the case with stupid
> Christians and Jews and others who think Islam is just another peaceful
> religion. It is actually a war like religion par excellence.
>
> Better yet, tell a Muslim that you are an atheist and you will most likely
> be dead before you hit the ground. You can only live in a Muslim country as
> a Muslim. If you decide to do this, you will enter the Middle Ages which the
> West left behind many hundreds of years ago. Lots of luck on your new
> adventurous life in Saudi Arabia.
>
> By the way, any Muslims in Australia?
>
> Also, what kind of name is Tamyka? Sounds aborigine to me. Bell is fine, but
> Tamyka is weird and freakish! Were your parents crazy or what?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>

So we have established now a long list of your phobias, paranoid
delusions, megalomaniacal tendencies, etc.; exactly what is the nature of
your illness, Ed?

Australia has a significant Muslim population.

Tamyka should well be recognised as being popular in the black American
population under a variety of spellings including Tameka and Tamika.
Interesting that in knowing all things American, you didn't know that. As
such, it's unlikely to be an Aboriginal name. Plus, indigineous
Australians tend to bless their own young with such names, not the young
of immigrants.
 
TimC wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 at 07:35 GMT, DiscoDuck (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > It's good you don't agree with the law, but I am afraid you are
> > misleading about the volume of injuries. They are exceedingly
rare.
> > Don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise.
> > Don't take my word for it, research it yourself. More people win
the
> > lottery each year.
>
> I've done my research! To the point of getting my helmet involved in
> 2 accidents! Very 1st person research, if you ask me -- no lab rat
> research for me :)


But again you have evaded the question, that is a reason to remove the
choice for everyone?
 
Marty Wallace wrote:

> If I did the same thing I would get up saying "Wow! Lucky I had had my
> helmet on!"

And on the other 1,001+ occasions you didn't hit your head and were less
comfortable than me as a result of wearing a foam hat, I'd say "lucky I
didn't waste my time wearing mine!" (I do have one which I use for
MTBing, when I'm far more likely to fall off, and also from the days
when I thought it was mad not to wear one all the time, because I hadn't
read the research).

The last time I came off a bike on tarmac I was wearing a helmet, and I
did hit my head. My chin took the impact, it bloody hurt, and the
helmet was no use whatsoever. "Lucky" I was wearing it, eh, or I'd have
serious brain damage now...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
dgk wrote:
> I realize, just from osmosis while reading the newsgroups, that the
> statistics pushing mandatory helmet laws are less than definitive.
> Perhaps it is even just another case of government acting as a shill
> for corporate sales. That is pretty much how I view the US government
> anyway. But are you making the point that I am LESS SAFE by wearing a
> helmet?

Still waiting for the area were you felt I suggested that, so I can
clarify.
 
Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
>>In this instance the helmet absorbed enough of the impact to prevent
>>serious brain damage, otherwise he wouldn't be here today to tell us
>>about it. It's self evident.How can you contradict that.
>
>
> I've been straight over the bars and landed on my head from 10-15mph on
> tarmac and lived without any medical attention.

I see your 10-15 mph and raise you to 20 mph into a grassy bank (but at
tangentially, not head on) I wasn't wearing a helmet and did hit my
head. No ill effects, barring a general all-over ache that a hot bath
and an overnight rest cured.

R.
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

>>Now, firstly, a helmet's design is to protect from the equivalent of
>>falling from a bike at about 12mph. (The technical stuff can be
>>obtained from the bike manufacturers, but that's what it boils down
>>to).
>
>
> In fact the European test for cycle helmets involves dropping the
> helmet, containing a dummy head weighing not more than 6Kg, onto a flat
> surface from a height of 1.5 metres. That's all. Nothing more. And for
> helmets smaller than the largest size, the dummy head is lighter.
>
> That isn't, in fact, even equivalent to falling from a stationary bike.

Ah, mea culpa. Thanks.

Although, what does the "test" require? Simply that the helmet doesn't
break? I mean, that's a bit pathetic, isn't it? At the very least
you'd think they'd require an accelerometer in the "head" to show no
more than X g of deceleration, where X is *mumble*.

R.
 
On 21/1/05 2:22 am, in article [email protected], "Marty
Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Mark Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> In this instance the helmet absorbed enough of the impact to prevent
>>> serious brain damage, otherwise he wouldn't be here today to tell us
>>> about it.
>>
>> What about if the impact wasn't enough to give brain damage? I only
>> mention is because IT'S BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS!.
>>
>> After falling off a bicycle and striking my head I would expect to get up
>> going "Ow, that bloody hurt!".
>
> If I did the same thing I would get up saying "Wow! Lucky I had had my
> helmet on!"

And I'd be saying "Unlucky to fall off the bike". Can't see how you consider
it lucky to fall off a bike myself..

...d
 
Richard wrote:
>
> I see your 10-15 mph and raise you to 20 mph into a grassy bank (but at
> tangentially, not head on) I wasn't wearing a helmet and did hit my
> head.

You are dead and ICMFP!

Tony
 
dave wrote:

>> Going completely tangential, however, I once came upon a report that
>> suggested that the ancient Chinese used silk undergarments when
>> fighting. The idea was that when hit by an arrow, the silk wouldn't
>> be cut, merely deform and enter the wound. One could then remove both
>> arrow and silk by gentle pressure, leaving a clean wound free of bits
>> of crud, that would heal more quickly.
>>
> Hmmmmmm. Well I have an 80 pound compound bow here.. I think that it
> wont work but if you wanna set up the experiment. (I would suggest with
> a sandbag) I think its a fable :)

Yes - hence my careful use of language ;-) Although I can see it
working for low-energy impacts - the sort that weren't going to kill you
outright anyhow. (And how do you 80lb pull guys ever get the arrows
out of the straw? :)

R.
 
Tony Raven wrote:
>> I see your 10-15 mph and raise you to 20 mph into a grassy bank (but
>> at tangentially, not head on) I wasn't wearing a helmet and did hit my
>> head.
>
>
> You are dead and ICMFP!

Damn, someone noticed. *lurches down the road" Give me the
braaainsssssss....
 
On 21/1/05 9:26 am, in article [email protected], "Richard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Tony Raven wrote:
>>> I see your 10-15 mph and raise you to 20 mph into a grassy bank (but
>>> at tangentially, not head on) I wasn't wearing a helmet and did hit my
>>> head.
>>
>>
>> You are dead and ICMFP!
>
> Damn, someone noticed. *lurches down the road" Give me the
> braaainsssssss....

Yeth, Mathter??

...i
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

>
> "Andrew Reddaway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > SNIP
> > >
> >> > We are at war now.. and some consider the Americans dragged us
> in.
> > >
> >> I give Australia and Great Britain a lot of credit for entering
> into >> the war on the side of the US. But I also know that most of
> the >> common folk of those two nations are not for the war. The
> reason for >> this is that they want the US to carry the entire
> burden of >> maintaining law and order in the world. I guess that is
> what comes of >> being the sole remaining super power in the world.
> > >
> >
> > With your passion for orderly society, you must see the result of
> > the US' efforts in Iraq as a disaster - such an increase in chaos
> > and criminal activity. Or does that not matter, as long as it's
> > not in your country?
>
> The war with Iraq turned out to be a cake walk as I knew it would.
> However, the aftermath has turned into a tricky situation to say the
> least. No one was expecting that the remnants of the Sadaam regime
> would become insurgent terrorists. It is not a disaster, but simply a
> tricky situation that can and will be solved. American casualties are
> minimal, but I admit that they can't go on indefinitely.

You've got such compassion for the innocent people that are suffering
over there.

The response to the occupation should have been predicted. How long
would your countrymen live under a foreign power before resisting? I
suspect that a significant minority would take up arms against foreign
rule, even if the invaders had freed them from a dictator. As you say,
people are everywhere the same.

> The Iraqis are reaping what they have sown via their former tyrant,
> Sadaam Hussein. I never entirely excuse a people for the kind of
> governance they have. If the Arabs had more love of freedom and
> democracy and less love of tyrants and autocracy, maybe they wouldn't
> always be so miserable. But the very first thing they have to do in
> order to enter the present century is to reform their Muslim religion
> which is an abomination.

Please explain how this reconciles with your belief that "people are
everywhere the same" and "The cultures that separate different groups
are not profound and are only incidental to our essential natures."
Seems to me that you'll adopt whatever position you like, just to be
controversial.

> By the way, you don't like an orderly society?

I didn't even imply that.
 
"dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> "Tamyka Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:p[email protected]...
[...]
>> Also, what kind of name is Tamyka? Sounds aborigine to me. Bell is fine,
>> but Tamyka is weird and freakish! Were your parents crazy or what?
>>
> sounds cute and sexy to me..
> And since like you I care naught for anyone elses opinion.

Still, it is big mistake to saddle one's children with a weird or a funny
name. What is cute and sexy when you are a child or a teenager is seldom
cute and sexy when you are full grown. I once knew a crazy woman who named
her twin girls Dawn and Fawn. That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. You
have to imagine Dawn and Fawn as big fat ugly 30 year old ladies with names
like that. Children ought to be able to sue their parents for giving them a
bad name. Frankly, if I didn't like my name I would have changed it myself.

But David and Edward are classic names, so we never had anything to fear
from the moment we were named. Thank God for sensible parents. Cute and sexy
is for the birds.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
 
"Andrew Reddaway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>>
>> "Andrew Reddaway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Edward Dolan wrote:
>> >
>> > SNIP
>> > >
>> >> > We are at war now.. and some consider the Americans dragged us
>> in.
>> > >
>> >> I give Australia and Great Britain a lot of credit for entering
>> into >> the war on the side of the US. But I also know that most of
>> the >> common folk of those two nations are not for the war. The
>> reason for >> this is that they want the US to carry the entire
>> burden of >> maintaining law and order in the world. I guess that is
>> what comes of >> being the sole remaining super power in the world.
>> > >
>> >
>> > With your passion for orderly society, you must see the result of
>> > the US' efforts in Iraq as a disaster - such an increase in chaos
>> > and criminal activity. Or does that not matter, as long as it's
>> > not in your country?
>>
>> The war with Iraq turned out to be a cake walk as I knew it would.
>> However, the aftermath has turned into a tricky situation to say the
>> least. No one was expecting that the remnants of the Sadaam regime
>> would become insurgent terrorists. It is not a disaster, but simply a
>> tricky situation that can and will be solved. American casualties are
>> minimal, but I admit that they can't go on indefinitely.
>
> You've got such compassion for the innocent people that are suffering
> over there.

There actually are no innocent people anywhere in the world. The Iraqis are
now paying the price for putting up with a tyrant for all those years.
Serves them right when you think about it. After all, it is Iraqis who are
killing other Iraqis, not the US. And never forget that the sins of the
fathers are visited upon the children. Like I said, there are no innocents.
Ever hear of original sin? Adam and Eve?

> The response to the occupation should have been predicted. How long
> would your countrymen live under a foreign power before resisting? I
> suspect that a significant minority would take up arms against foreign
> rule, even if the invaders had freed them from a dictator. As you say,
> people are everywhere the same.

The Iraqis were hardly even a nation and most of then hated their
government. There is no way it could have been predicted. To compare Muslim
savages with Westerners is the hallmark of any idiot. The bottom line is
that Westerners do not understand the Muslim religion and that is what
motivates them almost to the exclusion of everything else. In order to
understand that religious mentality, we would ourselves have to revert to
Mediaeval Christianity. But there is no one in the West that stupid and
crazy.

By the way, we are not there to rule them but to liberate them from their
own ignorance and craziness. We will get out as soon as it is safe and
reasonable to get out. Kind of like the same way we got out of Germany and
Japan after WWII.

People are only the same in their essential natures as human animals, not
with respect to their cultures (which includes religion).

>> The Iraqis are reaping what they have sown via their former tyrant,
>> Sadaam Hussein. I never entirely excuse a people for the kind of
>> governance they have. If the Arabs had more love of freedom and
>> democracy and less love of tyrants and autocracy, maybe they wouldn't
>> always be so miserable. But the very first thing they have to do in
>> order to enter the present century is to reform their Muslim religion
>> which is an abomination.
>
> Please explain how this reconciles with your belief that "people are
> everywhere the same" and "The cultures that separate different groups
> are not profound and are only incidental to our essential natures."
> Seems to me that you'll adopt whatever position you like, just to be
> controversial.

See my statement above for clarification.

>> By the way, you don't like an orderly society?
>
> I didn't even imply that.

Well, someone said something about me having a passion for order (see above)
as if it were a bad thing. It is a very good thing provided you do not carry
it to an extreme of course.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Theo Bekkers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>When you are sitting in a seat of power the very first thing you will
>>>>>>discover is that there is a history to every law under the sun and
>>>>>>that there are good and sufficient reasons for every bit of
>>>>>>legislation.You will have to think twice and more before you start to
>>>>>>change anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>We had a local law repealed five years ago. This law required a man
>>>>>with a red flag to precede any motor vehicle on St Georges Terrace (in
>>>>>Minneapolis, that would be Main St). Thousands of CRIMINALS per day
>>>>>have flouted this perfectly good and sensible law for about 80 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Theo
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed, are you really looking for a crossposting troll war? I can get
>>>>>another dozen totally unrelated ngs full of madmen involved if you
>>>>>want. Should make your friends in ARBR very happy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Edward Dolan's sole purpose on Usenet is to engage in off-topic
>>>>arguments and antagonize as many people as possible.
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Dolan has no friends on alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent; just those who
>>>>kill-file him, ignore him, read him for his unintentional humor, or
>>>>point out his mistakes in factual matters.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Not your average Yank then? :)
>>>
>>>Gee and I was thinking what a lovely well traveled warm engaging person
>>>he was.. and how welcome we would make him feel if he visited our lovely
>>>country.
>>
>>LOL!
>>
>>--
>>Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
>
>
> All very touchy-feely, but is anyone in the world interested in what is
> being said here. But Mr. Sherman no doubt thinks he has now made some new
> friends there in far off Australia. But I know for a fact that no one but no
> one gives a damn about anyone. It has been ever thus. Try to grow up why
> don't you?
>
> Only the Great Ed Dolan posts messages that are interesting for others to
> read and to reflect upon. Only he knows how to stimulate the mind and arouse
> the passions. I mean let's face it - who owns this thread? Many thanks Ed
> for livening up an otherwise dead group

Huh?
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>Dave, the solution to all your problems with legislation is to become a
>>>law giver yourself, provided you have the brains to win an election. Once
>>>you are a legislator you will soon discover just how smart you have to be
>>>in order to stay on top of things. Even run for City Council. That is a
>>>good place to start.
>>>
>>>When you are sitting in a seat of power the very first thing you will
>>>discover is that there is a history to every law under the sun and that
>>>there are good and sufficient reasons for every bit of legislation.You
>>>will have to think twice and more before you start to change anything.
>>>You will be humbled by what it takes to be a legislator.
>>>
>>>Best of luck to you in your new career as a law giver.
>>>
>>
>>What was that 1 in 4 congressmen in the US has a passport? Explains the
>>sophisticated world view.
>
>
> Americans, like Australians, occupy a continental size country. We are not
> like England and all those tiny European nations. Funny you don't appreciate
> that fact. But then it is my understanding that Aussies are all the time
> running up to places like Thailand for the sex pots there. Hells Bells!
> Maybe if I were stuck in Australia I would want to run off to some other
> country too.
>
> America is the New Rome whether you like it or not. Americans are to be
> found all over the world in rather large numbers. Try to control your envy
> as that is one of the least attractive vices.
>

Envy? Oh Ed I don;t envy you. I promise you that.

Dave
 
Tamyka Bell wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>Americans, like Australians, occupy a continental size country. We are not
>>like England and all those tiny European nations. Funny you don't appreciate
>>that fact. But then it is my understanding that Aussies are all the time
>>running up to places like Thailand for the sex pots there. Hells Bells!
>>Maybe if I were stuck in Australia I would want to run off to some other
>>country too.
>>
>>America is the New Rome whether you like it or not. Americans are to be
>>found all over the world in rather large numbers. Try to control your envy
>>as that is one of the least attractive vices.
>>
>>--
>>Regards,
>>
>>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
>
>
> That doesn't make sense. You talk about how Australia is so bad that
> people want to run away, and then you talk about how Americans are found
> all over the world.
>

Does any of it make sense :)

Dave
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
> By artifacts, I mean anything that man has made. For instance I would want
> to wander about the streets of your cities and towns and take in the
> architecture and the urban landscape in general. I would also want to
> explore your deserts and back country even more so. I would not bother
> getting to know anyone other than what would take place in the course of my
> getting about the country. I do not mind being in a foreign country where no
> one speaks English. I mostly never want to talk to anybody anyway nor do I
> want anyone talking to me. I must admit, I am a bit of a hermit.


So was I for many years. Thank God I grew out of it.
>
> The one thing I would never do is waste my time cycling in a foreign
> country. Anyone who would do that has got to be nuts. It is too wasteful of
> precious time. When I am abroad I want every minute to count, not to be
> wasting my time cycling. Sheer insanity!
>
Loved cycling along the Thames... Absolutely loved it.
Ahhh Insanity.. fllying to the far side of the world to stay with a
pretty girl; meet people, drink exotic beer, Sail in legendary
places.. and cycle through london. Absolute insanity.

Thank God for a little insanity in my life. And thank you for the
invitations to London Sara. Hoped you enjoyed your insane trips to Oz
as much

Dave
 
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]
> Still, it is big mistake to saddle one's children with a weird or a funny
> name. What is cute and sexy when you are a child or a teenager is seldom
> cute and sexy when you are full grown. I once knew a crazy woman who named
> her twin girls Dawn and Fawn. That was an incredibly stupid thing to do.
> You have to imagine Dawn and Fawn as big fat ugly 30 year old ladies with
> names like that. Children ought to be able to sue their parents for giving
> them a bad name. Frankly, if I didn't like my name I would have changed it
> myself.
>
> But David and Edward are classic names, so we never had anything to fear
> from the moment we were named. Thank God for sensible parents. Cute and
> sexy is for the birds.

I see the comedian is still going...

You know, if you put as much effort into lobbying for better cycling
conditions as you do writing usenet comedy, we'd all be better off.

hippy
 
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