Chalo among the fashion victims and other impressionables



A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 24, 4:19 pm, [email protected] wrote:

> By the way, the map at the link Clive gave,http://www.earthtools.org/index..php?x=-8.66598129272461&y=51.73553364...
> shows that road topping out at about a 13% grade, by my rough
> scaling.  Not quite good enough for 100 kph, even if that particular
> little-used farm lane has much smoother pavement than the Irish roads
> I remember.
>
> So, are we looking at the wrong road?
>
> - Frank Krygowski


You're looking at the right road, Frank, but with the wrong
assumptions, just like Fogel. When you guys have put your minds in
gear and questioned your own assumptions, come talk to me again and
I'll straighten you out. (Fogel doesn't even have the right bike in
mind!)

Andre Jute
A little, a very little thought is required -- J. M. Keynes
 
L

Lou Holtman

Guest
Andre Jute wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:19 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> By the way, the map at the link Clive gave,http://www.earthtools.org/index.php?x=-8.66598129272461&y=51.73553364...
>> shows that road topping out at about a 13% grade, by my rough
>> scaling. Not quite good enough for 100 kph, even if that particular
>> little-used farm lane has much smoother pavement than the Irish roads
>> I remember.
>>
>> So, are we looking at the wrong road?
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski

>
> You're looking at the right road, Frank, but with the wrong
> assumptions, just like Fogel. When you guys have put your minds in
> gear and questioned your own assumptions, come talk to me again and
> I'll straighten you out. (Fogel doesn't even have the right bike in
> mind!)
>
> Andre Jute
> A little, a very little thought is required -- J. M. Keynes



Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that you did over a 100
km/hr on that road on a Gazelle Toulouse with the handlebar lowered?
What clothes were you wearing? How did you measure that speed?

Lou
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 24, 7:02 pm, Lou Holtman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 4:19 pm, [email protected] wrote:

>
> >> By the way, the map at the link Clive gave,http://www.earthtools.org/index.php?x=-8.66598129272461&y=51.73553364...
> >> shows that road topping out at about a 13% grade, by my rough
> >> scaling.  Not quite good enough for 100 kph, even if that particular
> >> little-used farm lane has much smoother pavement than the Irish roads
> >> I remember.

>
> >> So, are we looking at the wrong road?

>
> >> - Frank Krygowski

>
> > You're looking at the right road, Frank, but with the wrong
> > assumptions, just like Fogel. When you guys have put your minds in
> > gear and questioned your own assumptions, come talk to me again and
> > I'll straighten you out. (Fogel doesn't even have the right bike in
> > mind!)

>
> > Andre Jute
> > A little, a very little thought is required -- J. M. Keynes

>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that you did over a 100
> km/hr on that road on a Gazelle Toulouse with the handlebar lowered?


You're right. You have the right speed, the right road, the right
bike. The lowered handlebar was just for the pose; it wasn't necessary
to make the speed.

> What clothes were you wearing?


Ha! At last someone catches a glimmer. But you're still suffering
under the same assumptions as Fogel.

I wore what I always wear when cycling, khakis and a camel-coloured
cotton long-sleeved button-down shirt with patch pockets. In honour of
the occasion -- meaning just in case I came off -- I also wore a
padded leather jacket (real leather, not motorbike "leathers" which I
find too sweaty). The clothes too are irrelevant to the speed.

>How did you measure that speed?


I didn't. I was too busy controlling the bike to watch the speedo. But
my Ciclosport HAC4 recorded the speed and it was also recorded on a
certified calibrated government approved speedometer.

> Lou


My heart rate when I finished the run was 62bpm, same as it was that
morning when I rose.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Any monkey can use a tool. Man is defined by the *intelligent* use of
tools.
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
In article
<[email protected]m>,
Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 24, 4:19 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > By the way, the map at the link Clive
> > gave,http://www.earthtools.org/index.php?x=-8.66598129272461&y=51.73
> > 553364.. . shows that road topping out at about a 13% grade, by my
> > rough scaling.  Not quite good enough for 100 kph, even if that
> > particular little-used farm lane has much smoother pavement than
> > the Irish roads I remember.
> >
> > So, are we looking at the wrong road?

>
> You're looking at the right road, Frank, but with the wrong
> assumptions, just like Fogel. When you guys have put your minds in
> gear and questioned your own assumptions, come talk to me again and
> I'll straighten you out. (Fogel doesn't even have the right bike in
> mind!)


So mysterious, Andre! How can you expect your correspondents to come to
the correct conclusions if you're withholding information? Take care
lest others start sniffing the air for a hint of troll.
 
C

Clive George

Guest
"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...

>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that you did over a 100
>> km/hr on that road on a Gazelle Toulouse with the handlebar lowered?

>
>You're right. You have the right speed, the right road, the right
>bike. The lowered handlebar was just for the pose; it wasn't necessary
>to make the speed.
>
>> What clothes were you wearing?

>
>Ha! At last someone catches a glimmer. But you're still suffering
>under the same assumptions as Fogel.
>
>I wore what I always wear when cycling, khakis and a camel-coloured
>cotton long-sleeved button-down shirt with patch pockets. In honour of
>the occasion -- meaning just in case I came off -- I also wore a
>padded leather jacket (real leather, not motorbike "leathers" which I
>find too sweaty). The clothes too are irrelevant to the speed.
>
>>How did you measure that speed?

>
>I didn't. I was too busy controlling the bike to watch the speedo. But
>my Ciclosport HAC4 recorded the speed and it was also recorded on a
>certified calibrated government approved speedometer.


Ok - this gets more interesting again, since there's obviously something
missing here. Some other source of power to help things along - a rocket or
jet engine? Or maybe slipstreaming something? Or even just being pushed? The
speedometer bit suggests maybe the latter - it would be in the other
vehicle.

clive
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
[email protected] aka Carl Fogel wrote:
> On Jan 23, 10:20 am, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]m...
>>
>>> Nah, seriously, Chalo, you should have looked more closely at the
>>> photographs on my netsite.The Gazelle Toulouse has a disc front brake
>>> and a no-tools adjustable handlebar height for a reason. Click,
>>> handbars down and rotated to put the handles well forward and pointing
>>> down, click to lock the setting in, and I'm a speed maniac; for
>>> instance, I got booked by the police for doing 43mph past a hospital,
>>> and I've done well over 100Km/h on that bike, going downhill of
>>> course.

>> That's pretty fast - what hill?
>>
>> cheers,
>> clive

>
> Dear Clive,
>
> I'm not surprised that you got no real answer beyond that vague
> tarmacadam farm lane that only one farmer uses, continent unspecified.
>
> Claims for an upright bicycle with fenders on 700x38 tires doing "well
> over 100Km/h" are awfully hard to support.
>
> You'd need a long hill with at least 16% grade to even reach 100 kmh,
> much less "well over" that speed--and that's with narrow racing tires,
> not 700x38 commuters, and hands-on-drops, without all the wind-drag
> gear on the pictured bicycle.
>
> Plug in -16%, 0 watts, 0 rpm, hands-on-drops, and narrow racing tires
> on this calculator, and you get 99.7 kmh for the defaults:
>
> http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm ...
>

Switch to a lowracer, and one can decrease the slope to -7.7% for the
same speed. :)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Andre Jute wrote:
> On Jan 23, 8:27 pm, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:43:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> [---]
>>
>>> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
>>> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
>>> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.

>> Patience, patience my good man ! That will all be confirmed as soon as
>> Mr Jute posts a reference to the relevant Google Maps page ...

>
> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> could even answer. I hadn't realized that, in Fogel's McCathyite
> worldview, rec.bicycles.tech is so largely populated by liars that
> anyone saying the sun shines outside should first present a notarized
> report from the weather bureau. Mind you, I was amused by some of
> Fogel's erroneous presumptions, like the farm lane being "private",
> which is putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.
>

This would not be the first time, or even second time that Mr. Fogel has
erroneously called someone a liar on rec.bicycles.*.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
[email protected] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Jan 24, 7:25 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
>> could even answer.

>
> Hmm. I didn't realize he'd called you a liar. What I see instead is
> this rather mild statement: "I'd love to be convinced that Andre has
> actually gone well over 100
> kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> to expect otherwise."...
>

"Dear Carl's" meaning was perfectly clear.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth
 
R

Ralph Barone

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Jan 23, 8:27 pm, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:43:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> [---]
> >>
> >>> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
> >>> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
> >>> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.
> >> Patience, patience my good man ! That will all be confirmed as soon as
> >> Mr Jute posts a reference to the relevant Google Maps page ...

> >
> > Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> > could even answer. I hadn't realized that, in Fogel's McCathyite
> > worldview, rec.bicycles.tech is so largely populated by liars that
> > anyone saying the sun shines outside should first present a notarized
> > report from the weather bureau. Mind you, I was amused by some of
> > Fogel's erroneous presumptions, like the farm lane being "private",
> > which is putting words into my mouth that I never spoke.
> >

> This would not be the first time, or even second time that Mr. Fogel has
> erroneously called someone a liar on rec.bicycles.*.


This would not be the first time, or even second time that somebody has
called Mr Jute a liar either. You just need to look in rec.audio.*
instead of rec.bicycling.*.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so you should not
be surprised when people question claims which appear to be hanging
three standard deviations off the center of the bell curve.
 
J

Jay Beattie

Guest
On Jan 23, 11:43 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:25:07 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
> >On Jan 23, 2:00 pm, [email protected] wrote:

>
> >> I'd love to be convinced that Andre has actually gone well over 100
> >> kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> >> to expect otherwise.

>
> >Well, he could have been drafting Bill Baka's tricycle.   ;-)

>
> >- Frank Krygowski

>
> Dear Frank,
>
> Or he could have been pedaling furiously and trading the lead in
> Trevor Jeffrey's perpetual-motion peloton, where riders supposedly
> went faster and faster as they sling-shotted out from behind the rider
> whom they were drafting.
>
> To be fair, even if his hill turns out to be too short or gentle to
> produce the claimed speed, he could have been fooled by a failing
> speedometer. Posters have mentioned cyclocomputers abruptly pegging
> the needle, so to speak, at 100 kmh in implausible places.
>
> And I'd still be pleased to find that my skepticism is wrong and that
> there is a paved farm lane long enough and steep enough for that kind
> of bike to do well over 100 kmh.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel


I don't know why you are so sceptical Carl. Check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzg3esJaaU -- Jay Beattie.
 
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:02:09 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't know why you are so sceptical Carl. Check this out.
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzg3esJaaU -- Jay Beattie.


Dear Jay,

Hmmm . . . it's hard to dispute photographic evidence _plus_ a podium
girl.

Longer (~20 minutes) and earlier version of an upright rider ripping
the legs off the peloton:
http://www.jimlangley.net/spin/Tati.html

L' École des Facteurs (The School for Postmen) is sub-titled.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 25, 12:36 am, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message


> > [Lou Holtman asked:]
> >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that you did over a 100
> >> km/hr on that road on a Gazelle Toulouse with the handlebar lowered?

>
> >You're right. You have the right speed, the right road, the right
> >bike. The lowered handlebar was just for the pose; it wasn't necessary
> >to make the speed.

>
> >> What clothes were you wearing?

>
> >Ha! At last someone catches a glimmer. But you're still suffering
> >under the same assumptions as Fogel.

>
> >I wore what I always wear when cycling, khakis and a camel-coloured
> >cotton long-sleeved button-down shirt with patch pockets. In honour of
> >the occasion -- meaning just in case I came off -- I also wore a
> >padded leather jacket (real leather, not motorbike "leathers" which I
> >find too sweaty). The clothes too are irrelevant to the speed.

>
> >>How did you measure that speed?

>
> >I didn't. I was too busy controlling the bike to watch the speedo. But
> >my Ciclosport HAC4 recorded the speed and it was also recorded on a
> >certified calibrated government approved speedometer.


Clive George concludes:
> Ok - this gets more interesting again, since there's obviously something
> missing here. Some other source of power to help things along - a rocket or
> jet engine? Or maybe slipstreaming something? Or even just being pushed? The
> speedometer bit suggests maybe the latter - it would be in the other
> vehicle.
>
> clive


You're right, two sources of power both provided by a truck. One was
aerodynamic in providing a space free of air-drag, the other was
simply a mechanical pull until 105kph was reached, at which point the
helper in the back of the truck said almost conversationally, "Time,
Andre," and pulled the release when I said, "Ta-ta", raising a finger
nonchalantly off the right handlebar grip, and without any sensation
of a change I coasted until the marker where I started braking gently.
The entire affair went so smoothly that I felt we could have tried for
100mph rather than 100kph but I wasn't sure the standard tubes were
good for it (I'd want double tubes and nitrogen inflation for higher
speeds to avoid disastrous heat rise) and anyway we would need a
longer piece of road we could block off without inconveniencing
anyone. The disc brake wasn't even too hot to touch and I never needed
to apply the rear brake to stabilize the bike.

A picture of the bike I did it on is halfway down the page here:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Bauhaus.html
though of course I stripped off the crankcase and mudguards and other
superfluous bits that might come loose and get into the spokes. As I
noted elsewhere, Gazelle's excellent toolless Switch stem was also
angled down and the handlebars rotated in it, and the seat set up a
bit, to give a sort of 1900 fast bike look, but it really wasn't
necessary to make the speed.

Sauvitor in modo, fortiter in res.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE & CYCLING.html
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 25, 2:27 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:> On Jan 24, 7:25 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> >> could even answer.

>
> > Hmm.  I didn't realize he'd called you a liar.  What I see instead is
> > this rather mild statement:  "I'd love to be convinced that Andre has
> > actually gone well over 100
> > kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> > to expect otherwise."...

>
> "Dear Carl's" meaning was perfectly clear.


And repeated several times. No one except the blind and deaf or
unthinkingly partisan could mistake Carl Fogel's intention to call me
a liar before I even had a chance to answer Clive George's question..

I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
apologize. He didn't.

> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth


Andre Jute
Gentlemen are born -- and so are the rest
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 24, 11:47 pm, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]m>,
>  Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 4:19 pm, [email protected] wrote:

>
> > > By the way, the map at the link Clive
> > > gave,http://www.earthtools.org/index.php?x=-8.66598129272461&y=51.73
> > > 553364.. . shows that road topping out at about a 13% grade, by my
> > > rough scaling.  Not quite good enough for 100 kph, even if that
> > > particular little-used farm lane has much smoother pavement than
> > > the Irish roads I remember.

>
> > > So, are we looking at the wrong road?

>
> > You're looking at the right road, Frank, but with the wrong
> > assumptions, just like Fogel. When you guys have put your minds in
> > gear and questioned your own assumptions, come talk to me again and
> > I'll straighten you out. (Fogel doesn't even have the right bike in
> > mind!)

>
> So mysterious, Andre!  How can you expect your correspondents to come to
> the correct conclusions if you're withholding information?  Take care
> lest others start sniffing the air for a hint of troll.


Nah, if I decide to troll you, you either won't know you are being
manipulated or it will be done so deliberately obviously you will be
incandescent with rage at being treated with such contempt. But first
you must do something to deserve being trolled. Want to confess to
some sin? (I once said at a party, "I lay in my bath thinking about my
sins," and some disappointed intellectual on the verge of neo-
lesbianism snorted cuttingly, "And after twenty seconds his mind went
blank." That's the definition of dullness: nothing to confess!)

I was just delaying the full facts to give Fogel a chance examine his
erroneous assumptions and do the right thing.

So I waited for someone to ask me the right question, which Lou and
Clive did. See my reply to Clive for da faks.

Andre Jute
Genius is the art of being productively lazy
 
C

Clive George

Guest
"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>The entire affair went so smoothly that I felt we could have tried for
>100mph rather than 100kph but I wasn't sure the standard tubes were
>good for it (I'd want double tubes and nitrogen inflation for higher
>speeds to avoid disastrous heat rise) and anyway we would need a
>longer piece of road we could block off without inconveniencing
>anyone. The disc brake wasn't even too hot to touch and I never needed
>to apply the rear brake to stabilize the bike.


Nitrogen won't make any difference. Use decent tyres at suitably high
pressures, and you won't suffer heat rise. Punctures could be very nasty at
that speed - not sure how to avoid that, apart from checking the road very
carefully.

A single stop from speed won't actually test the brake very much. It's
keeping something heavy, like a tandem, under constant braking which does
it.

I only got to 49mph when slipstreaming a truck in the flatlands of Cambridge
before my legs ran out of spin - 52x12 top gear (I might have been able to
spin faster for a short time, but the truck wasn't accelerating terribly
quickly). What was interesting was the buffeting as I dropped back - quite
unpleasant.

cheers,
clive
 
On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> apologize. He didn't.


And he shouldn't.

- Frank Krygowski
 
On Jan 24, 9:27 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] aka Frank Krygowski wrote:> On Jan 24, 7:25 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Yes, I was amazed that Fogel should start calling me a liar before I
> >> could even answer.

>
> > Hmm. I didn't realize he'd called you a liar. What I see instead is
> > this rather mild statement: "I'd love to be convinced that Andre has
> > actually gone well over 100
> > kmh down some private farm road on that bike, but experience leads me
> > to expect otherwise."...

>
> "Dear Carl's" meaning was perfectly clear.


As I read Carl's sentence, there were several possibilities. One was
Andre's mistaken memory. Another was technical failures of the
speedometer, unrecognized by Andre. Another was, yes, an outright
lie. And another was bending the truth somehow, just short of an
outright lie.

For the record, I've done 80 mph on my bicycle at least once. Like
Andre, I was making use of another power source - in this case, the
railroad train in which I was riding. However, I was never inspired
to deceive or troll based on that experience.

But then, I haven't kissed the Blarney Stone.

- Frank Krygowski
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 25, 3:29 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >The entire affair went so smoothly that I felt we could have tried for
> >100mph rather than 100kph but I wasn't sure the standard tubes were
> >good for it (I'd want double tubes and nitrogen inflation for higher
> >speeds to avoid disastrous heat rise) and anyway we would need a
> >longer piece of road we could block off without inconveniencing
> >anyone. The disc brake wasn't even too hot to touch and I never needed
> >to apply the rear brake to stabilize the bike.

>
> Nitrogen won't make any difference. Use decent tyres at suitably high
> pressures, and you won't suffer heat rise. Punctures could be very nasty at
> that speed - not sure how to avoid that, apart from checking the road very
> carefully.


I used Schalbe Marathon Plus tyres because I already had a new set.
They're still on the bike a couple of years later.

> A single stop from speed won't actually test the brake very much. It's
> keeping something heavy, like a tandem, under constant braking which does
> it.


> I only got to 49mph when slipstreaming a truck in the flatlands of Cambridge
> before my legs ran out of spin - 52x12 top gear (I might have been able to
> spin faster for a short time, but the truck wasn't accelerating terribly
> quickly). What was interesting was the buffeting as I dropped back - quite
> unpleasant.


You have to set the truck up right or you can take a nasty spill if
you release directly into the over-the-kamm eddying. The best sort of
truck is a refrigerated truck, among other reasons because its weight
causes smooth transitions in motion. The rear doors are opened at 45
degrees or more, depending on the width of the road, and stayed with
rods attached to the lock mechanisms with ratcheting pipe clamps. The
space at the bottom across the back and below the doors is filled in
with 19mm ply; you need three 8x4ft sheets. When the truck accelerates
after releasing you, and you slow anyway because the grade isn't steep
enough for the speed, the width of the aero envelope puts your
exposure to the buffeting further back where it is already much
weaker. I know quite a bit about airflow over and behind fast cars
(I'm the author of a book on designing and building prototype and one-
off cars), and this problem is another reason I didn't even think of
trying for the 100mph rather than the 100kph.

> cheers,
> clive


I'm impressed with your journey behind the truck: not with the dashing
speed or the impressive athleticism but with your daring. I wouldn't
dream of trying what you did without an ambulance helicopter standing
by. I remember the roads around Cambridge as being rough to cycle on
-- not to mention finding potholes that defeated the suspension of my
Citroen SM -- and no better than Irish roads, which are appalling.
There was one smooth good road though, to Burwell near Newmarket, that
was a pleasure in the very early mornings when it was not too heavily
trafficked. And when there were roadworks roundabout Hauxton
somewhere, there was a huge mound of earth, highest spot on the Fens,
that we raced down on the first mountainbikes, when straight
handlebars were a rarity.

Andre "Chicken" Jute
 
A

Andre Jute

Guest
On Jan 25, 3:40 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
> > gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
> > apologize. He didn't.

>
> And he shouldn't.
>
> - Frank Krygowski


Too late now, Frank. We've all seen that Fogel is dumb enough to make
unwarranted assumptions and from there to jump to erroneous
conclusions and unfounded accusations.

You're the one keeping this unpleasantness alive. I don't care ****
what Fogel says. He's had his chance. So why not let it ride so we can
keep at least the semblance of civility?

Andre Jute
Zero patience for Monday morning quarterbacks
 
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:40:44 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

>On Jan 25, 10:08 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I deliberately delayed giving a full explanation, and several times
>> gave Fogel the tip that he made wrong assumptions, to give him time to
>> apologize. He didn't.

>
>And he shouldn't.
>
>- Frank Krygowski


Dear Frank,

I won't.

First Andre started off with the casual comment that he did well over
100 kmh "downhill, of course."

When several people pointed out the unlikelihood of that, he whined
that we might as well ask for proof that the sun came up.

Pressed for the place, he came up with an obscure road.

Gradually he developed a whole new story involving a truck and
recording his speed "on a certified calibrated government approved
speedometer."

It's just as plausible as his original story. If encouraged, he'd
probably develop a long story about that amazing speedometer and why
he didn't mention the speed that it supposedly recorded.

His story wouldn't show any awareness that his "downhill, of course"
was nonsense--riders have been beating 60 mph while drafting on the
flats for over a century.

It doesn't really matter whether Andre actually thinks that it's
necessary to add "downhill, of course" while not mentioning "behind a
truck," whether he really knows of a "certified calibrated government
approved speedometer," or whether he's just a compulsive Munchausen
who plans to keep changing his stories until they're believed--who's
going to believe his next implausible story? He'll just claim that
everyone who doubted him was making foolish assumptions and should
have realized that he was drafting a truck downhill. Or that the sun
was up, just in Thailand, not Ireland. Or whatever dodge he thinks
will keep people talking to him.

If you met a fellow who told stories that way outside the internet,
you'd simply walk away from him and his explanations about how honest
he is.

I don't plan to feed the troll.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 

Similar threads

C
Replies
9
Views
2K
C