Any thoughts here about Snowden and his decision to publicise what the American government have been up as regards spying on American and non-American citizens?
The moral of the story is:Originally Posted by jhuskey .
[SIZE= 13px]He is wrong for what he did but so was the government for what they continue to do on a much larger scale.[/SIZE]
That's the way I see it. He allegedly broke the law (leaking classified information), and should get/face his day in court. However, I think the NSA (along with many of the rest of the alphabet of government agencies--IRS, FBI, EPA, FDA, USDA, etc.) is way out of bounds.Originally Posted by jhuskey .
He is wrong for what he did but so was the government for what they continue to do on a much larger scale.
Even though national security and defence are indeed evil, they make a whole lot of effort to show the opposite. They do have laws as well and when you think that something is out of line you can just report it to the chief and if nothing happens (which is very likely) then you can just quit and find another job.Originally Posted by jpr95 .
That's the way I see it. He allegedly broke the law (leaking classified information), and should get/face his day in court.
Originally Posted by jhuskey .
Check out the link below. It is funny and also scary.
http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf
Word accidentally omitted now inserted above in bold.alienator said:Obviously, the US is the only country doing such things. I'd be surprised to find many countries that aren't snooping on foreign nationals and/or their own citizens. Snowden would have more, perhaps a lot more, credibility if hadn't claimed he was willing to face justice and then followed that with doing everything in his power to run away. The surprise of the American public at Snowden's allegations is a bit ironic given that so much of the public supported and still supports the Patriot Act and its updates. The original Patriot Act really opened up the jurisdiction of FISA courts and subsequently the scope of government snooping.
If its legal to spy on the citizens then why did Snowden rat on them?Originally Posted by limerickman .
The spin coming out of the American government is interesting.
Apparently it is "right" and "lawful" for the American government to spy on it's own citizens, but it is wrong for it's own citizens to spy on the American government.
Never mind the American government spying on foreign citizens.
We do well to recall Eisenhower
I can't recall the ordinary American citizen be allowed to vote on the Patriot Act?Originally Posted by alienator .
Obviously, the US is the only country doing such things. I'd be surprised to find many countries that aren't snooping on foreign nationals and/or their own citizens.
Snowden would have more, perhaps a lot more, if hadn't claimed he was willing to face justice and then followed that with doing everything in his power to run away. The surprise of the American public at Snowden's allegations is a bit ironic given that so much of the public supported and still supports the Patriot Act and its updates. The original Patriot Act really opened up the jurisdiction of FISA courts and subsequently the scope of government snooping.
No, it was never put to the electorate, but polls at the time showed it had broad support. The current version still has support by many in the electorate, as does even the electronic snooping. There are enough people that say they're willing to give up some of their privacy in return for increased or more security that there's no will on the part of Congresspeople to dismantle what's been put in place by the Patriot Act and its various reauthorizations.limerickman said:I can't recall the ordinary American citizen be allowed to vote on the Patriot Act? When was the Act put to the American electorate?
Originally Posted by slovakguy .
on this, lim, alienator has it right in his sights. as an electorate we have not voiced our disapproval of this abominable law to our respective representatives. we, the people, have given this law free run. that being said, any sort of condemnation you have been hearing, has come mostly from the civil libertarians, who despised this patriot act from its first airing, and right wing, conservatives making hay to attack the president, but were oddly silent when this surveillance was first exposed during the bush administration.
Yes, it does go beyond keeping America safe, and it is wrong. The electorate, however, is not without guilt in this scandal. Governments will push the boundaries and interpretations of the law as far as they can if it benefits them, and they will step over the line and then will continue to do so if citizens don't hold them accountable. Americans are guilty of not holding their government accountable. A too large segment of the population has opted to submit to the culture of fear and in the process has willingly given up what was not the government's to take.limerickman said:I can see the principle behind the Act. And like all good ideas, the reality becomes somewhat different in that what is good in principle can become not so good in practice. I understand the necessity to keep America safe - but spying on lawabiding citizens goes way beyond keeping Americans safe.
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