Indurain's doctor says TDF too hard!

[limerickman]

No, Millar is a convicted offender by his own admission. No issue there.

There is an issue.
You used the fact that LA has never failed a test to signify his being clean.

It's immaterial whether or not he was convicted by his own admission.
Passing a drug test doesn't mean that a cyclist is clean.
Millar admitted that he cycled while doping - after he was caught with the drugs.
And he passed his drug tests too.

You stated that Lance Armstrong hasn't failed a drug test.
I contend that his not failing a drug test doesn't constitute his being clean.
Look at Millar.

 

[limerickman]

And you must have grown up too close to the power lines..or didn't your parents let you out of your bubble?

Once a bitter loser in life..always a bitter loser in life. Keep up your excellent expose of the world of druged athletes, it's fascinating

The only bitter loser here is you, Joe.

 

[mjolnir2k]

There is an issue.
You used the fact that LA has never failed a test to signify his being clean.

It's immaterial whether or not he was convicted by his own admission.
Passing a drug test doesn't mean that a cyclist is clean.
Millar admitted that he cycled while doping - after he was caught with the drugs.
And he passed his drug tests too.

You stated that Lance Armstrong hasn't failed a drug test.
I contend that his not failing a drug test doesn't constitute his being clean.
Look at Millar.

And you have yet to explain how you know for a FACT that LA isn't clean? You and Flyer are quick to judge, but somewhat lacking on the final proof.

It would seem that if he was so jacked up on juice that the P-N wouldn't have been such a hardship on him. He should have been able to breeze to a win with little effort. Odd that it showed more than anything that his pre-tour prep was still ongoing and that he was WORKING to get in race shape.

Wouldn't it just have been easier to pop a pill?

Millar was caught red handed and he then confessed...can you show me the day that LA was caught red handed with dope? I am sorry if I don't get caught up in the rumor mill that surrounds him. His ex-masseur (who was fired) doesn't carry much weight with me. Nor does Greg LeMond who is self serving (always has been). The pieces of the puzzle are not even remotely complete.

UCI and WADA seem serious about their attempts to catch dopers, yet all of their tests have shown LA to be clean. Still you belittle this? What's your problem? Can't stand to see an American win the TdF, supplant Eddie and Indurain for most wins?? You obviously have an axe to grind that goes beyond drug use.

If you were to stick with facts about doping there would be no dis-agreement. is it bad, yes no-one disagrees. What people have a problem with is you lot coming on here and acting like you know things that you can't possibly know or have information that does not exist. You do not know LA. You do not know anyone who knows LA (more than just in passing) and you do not know anyone who has information about LA. Those are the facts..deal with it!

To compare LA to Barry Bonds is assinine. Bonds ADMITTED to using steroids. Plain and simple. So is he a cheat..YES! Does that mean all ball players are cheats...NOPE. Get a clue and stop painting everyone with your poison brush.

If you want to talk about being a loser, then all you have to do is review yours and Flyers posts to see two men who have little else in their lives to occupy themselves and have chosen to try and besmirch a man they have never met so that they will feel better about their lot in life. It's NOT about drugs in sports, it's about you two having a hard-on to prove LA is not as good a cyclist as it appears. That is not only lame, it is pathetic.

Stick to the facts and you will get less resistance.

 

[limerickman]

And you have yet to explain how you know for a FACT that LA isn't clean? You and Flyer are quick to judge, but somewhat lacking on the final proof.

It would seem that if he was so jacked up on juice that the P-N wouldn't have been such a hardship on him. He should have been able to breeze to a win with little effort. Odd that it showed more than anything that his pre-tour prep was still ongoing and that he was WORKING to get in race shape.

Wouldn't it just have been easier to pop a pill?

Millar was caught red handed and he then confessed...can you show me the day that LA was caught red handed with dope? I am sorry if I don't get caught up in the rumor mill that surrounds him. His ex-masseur (who was fired) doesn't carry much weight with me. Nor does Greg LeMond who is self serving (always has been). The pieces of the puzzle are not even remotely complete.

UCI and WADA seem serious about their attempts to catch dopers, yet all of their tests have shown LA to be clean. Still you belittle this? What's your problem? Can't stand to see an American win the TdF, supplant Eddie and Indurain for most wins?? You obviously have an axe to grind that goes beyond drug use.

If you were to stick with facts about doping there would be no dis-agreement. is it bad, yes no-one disagrees. What people have a problem with is you lot coming on here and acting like you know things that you can't possibly know or have information that does not exist. You do not know LA. You do not know anyone who knows LA (more than just in passing) and you do not know anyone who has information about LA. Those are the facts..deal with it!

To compare LA to Barry Bonds is assinine. Bonds ADMITTED to using steroids. Plain and simple. So is he a cheat..YES! Does that mean all ball players are cheats...NOPE. Get a clue and stop painting everyone with your poison brush.

If you want to talk about being a loser, then all you have to do is review yours and Flyers posts to see two men who have little else in their lives to occupy themselves and have chosen to try and besmirch a man they have never met so that they will feel better about their lot in life. It's NOT about drugs in sports, it's about you two having a hard-on to prove LA is not as good a cyclist as it appears. That is not only lame, it is pathetic.

Stick to the facts and you will get less resistance.

It was you who introduced the not having failed a drug test, defense, to assert that LA is clean.
I simply say - look at David Millar.

As for your other points, the issue of how LA's improvement has been attained, has not been explained.
His explanations are not believed by a large portion of the cycling public.
His explanations are not believed by a large portion of the journalists who report on this sport either.
In the entire history of the sport, no TDF winner has divided the sport like Armstrong.

You are free to chose to believe that he is clean.

I don't chose to believe that he is clean.

But although I disagree with your view - I don't try to insult you.

 

[mjolnir2k]

It was you who introduced the not having failed a drug test, defense, to assert that LA is clean.
I simply say - look at David Millar.

And I respond that Millar admitted to using. That's a fact.

As for your other points, the issue of how LA's improvement has been attained, has not been explained.
His explanations are not believed by a large portion of the cycling public.
His explanations are not believed by a large portion of the journalists who report on this sport either.
In the entire history of the sport, no TDF winner has divided the sport like Armstrong.

What other explanation do you need? The man trains hard, rides a lot and has an excellent team and manager. Why is that not enough? Why can he not succeed using that formula? Isn't that what every successful athlete needs? Why do you instead disregard this and claim he uses dope?

How do YOU know what the other cyclists think? Have you spoken to them? Am I to take Simeoni's word that LA is on dope and ascribe that to the rest of the peleton? You make assertions that are just not true and that you have no knowledge of. You are NOT a pro cyclist with inside information. That's a fact!

In the entire history of the TdF it has seen death, tragedy and disruption due to doping..yet somehow LA winning 6 times is the worst thing ever to happen to it? Funny that it is more popular than it has ever been.

You are free to chose to believe that he is clean.

I don't chose to believe that he is clean.

Yes, but the difference is that I don't go around spreading rumors as though they were fact. I would not be defending LA (not that he needs someone he never met to defend him) if he had tested positive or had admitted to doping.
Why don't you just be honest and just say "I don't like LA and I think he's doping". At least then people would know why you make the posts that you do. It has nothing with cleaning up the sport and everything to do with not liking someone.

But although I disagree with your view - I don't try to insult you.

Except here, where I was responding to Flyer and you took it upon yourself to repond.

The only bitter loser here is you, Joe.

 

[limerickman]

Yes, but the difference is that I don't go around spreading rumors as though they were fact. I would not be defending LA (not that he needs someone he never met to defend him) if he had tested positive or had admitted to doping.
Why don't you just be honest and just say "I don't like LA and I think he's doping". At least then people would know why you make the posts that you do. It has nothing with cleaning up the sport and everything to do with not liking someone.

You're right - I don't know Lance Armstrong.
I've never met him.

So for you to conclude that I don't like him is factually incorrect.
I don't dislike LA - I don't know him well enough to either like or dislike him.
That was a nice try though, on your part.

How do YOU know what the other cyclists think? Have you spoken to them? You make assertions that are just not true and that you have no knowledge of.

Yeah, I have actually spoken to other professionals in the European peloton.
I have spoken with journalists who report on the peloton too.

Ihave also compared the statistics of both parts of his career and there is a massive dichotomy there that ain't explained by LA or his books or his publicists or his apologists, like you.

You are NOT a pro cyclist with inside information. That's a fact!

I never claimed to a pro cyclists with inside information.
That is a fact.

In the entire history of the TdF it has seen death, tragedy and disruption due to doping..yet somehow LA winning 6 times is the worst thing ever to happen to it? Funny that it is more popular than it has ever been.

Yeah we all know that the TDF has seen it's fair share of drama, death etc.

But we have never seen a TDF winner who has divided opinion as to whether or not he is a doper.
The sports following is massively divided over the issueas to whether LA is doping or not.

 

[mjolnir2k]

I don't dislike LA - I don't know him well enough to either like or dislike him.
That was a nice try though, on your part.

Yet your posts seem to indicate otherwise. I discern a perceptible dislike for him whenever you post. That's a fact.

Yeah, I have actually spoken to other professionals in the European peloton.
I have spoken with journalists who report on the peloton too.

Ihave also compared the statistics of both parts of his career and there is a massive dichotomy there that ain't explained by LA or his books or his publicists or his apologists, like you.

Really? Have you spoken to Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin? Or are they apologists too? Perhaps they don't know as much as you do about cycling?

Have you spoken to Merckx, Indurain, Ullrich or Hinault? They don't seem to share your opinion of LA, perhaps they don't know as much about racing as you do?

Dichotomy of his career? He was a dominant athlete when he was young, went from a Tri-Athelete to a day racer to a stage racer...seems more like a progression than a instant success.

This is not someone who was a Neo-Pro that came out of nowhere to win the Tour...In fact his progression supports my beliefs more than yours. If he was a doper he wouldn't ever have struggled early on, he just would have rolled out of bed and won the Tour and every other race he entered. geez, is it not possible to progress in sport? Must an athlete remain boxed into his initial results?

I don't need to be an apologist for a man that I don't even know. I just don't see the need to spread rumor or innuendo because of a personal agenda.

I never claimed to a pro cyclists with inside information.
That is a fact.

Your posts attempt to make it seem as though you have inside info and are somehow integrated in this world of pro cycling. You often post about how you speak with pro racers and get this info and opinion from them. That is a fact! Please, give us some names of those pro's that you know so well to discuss this business? Of course this being the 'net, feel free to embelish. It's not like I can verify. However, me asserting you to be a liar would be slanderous and an unknown...and I don't care to spread rumor.

Yeah we all know that the TDF has seen it's fair share of drama, death etc.

But we have never seen a TDF winner who has divided opinion as to whether or not he is a doper.
The sports following is massively divided over the issueas to whether LA is doping or not.

Where is this massive division? Even Simeoni said that when he and Lance were fighting 10% of the peleton sided with him and 90% sided with LA...Some division.

I think you are refering to a few publications or reporters who feel the need to spread rumor (sound familiar) because they have a personal agenda against LA (be it because he's American or what ever reason).

There is also the natural human inclination to begin to desire a change in winners when one person or team wins one event for too long. Human nature at it's finest.

 

[limerickman]

Yet your posts seem to indicate otherwise. I discern a perceptible dislike for him whenever you post. That's a fact.

No, that is your opinion.
Not a fact.

Really? Have you spoken to Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin? Or are they apologists too? Perhaps they don't know as much as you do about cycling?

Have you spoken to Merckx, Indurain, Ullrich or Hinault? They don't seem to share your opinion of LA, perhaps they don't know as much about racing as you do?

You can take that I have spoken to authorative sources both in the cycling press and the current peloton.
I have also spoken with former riders, some of whom you have mentioned.

?

Dichotomy of his career? He was a dominant athlete when he was young, went from a Tri-Athelete to a day racer to a stage racer...seems more like a progression than a instant success.

He wasn't a dominant cyclist.

?

This is not someone who was a Neo-Pro that came out of nowhere to win the Tour...In fact his progression supports my beliefs more than yours. If he was a doper he wouldn't ever have struggled early on, he just would have rolled out of bed and won the Tour and every other race he entered. geez, is it not possible to progress in sport? Must an athlete remain boxed into his initial results?

His progression ?
What progression is this ?

His double stage race win at the Tour DuPont in 1995/95 ?
I suppose that is progress of sorts.
Compared to his three out of four failures to finish the TDF.

Your posts attempt to make it seem as though you have inside info and are somehow integrated in this world of pro cycling. That is a fact!

Well I can read and understand statistics.
can you ?

And now that we're discussing insights and the peloton - how do you know Lance Armstrong is clean ?
Do you have any contacts in the peloton out there in Maine ?

I think you are refering to a few publications or reporters who feel the need to spread rumor (sound familiar) because they have a personal agenda against LA (be it because he's American or what ever reason). There is also the natural human inclination to begin to desire a change in winners when one person or team wins one event for too long.

Nice try.

I wonder why there were never any rumours about Indurain or Hinault or Merckx or Anquetil when they - to use your words "one person or team wins one event for too long."
They all dominated the event - why weren't they subject to rumours ?

Maybe it's all a conspiracy, I suppose against Lance Armstrong and America (roll eyes) !

(note to the editor : why wasn't LeMond subject to the same rumours ??????)

 

[tcklyde]

I wonder why there were never any rumours about Indurain or Hinault or Merckx or Anquetil when they - to use your words "one person or team wins one event for too long."
They all dominated the event - why weren't they subject to rumours ?

Lemond, Indurain, Hinault and Merckx were never subject to doping rumors? What? Of course they were! Hell, Merckx had three positives!

 

[wolfix]

You are right on mjolnir2k ........
Certain men are " born cyclists." I think Lance's lack of race knowledge and his overly aggressive style prevented him from better results in his pre-cancer days..... Plus , we do not know how the cancer forming in his body slowed him down...... His win at the World Championships may have indicated his ability to get up for the big races........
The cancer treatments he went through had the ability to change his body as far as weight goes ....... My father was a completely different man after chemo .......
But the argument in here whether Lance could have changed as much as he did after cancer is one that I may have a tremendous insight to ......
Six years ago I came real close to death in a serious auto accident ....... I struggled for a year and half after with results of the accident. Since then , after much thought of how fragile life is ...... And experiancing it is not the same as reading about it , I changed my entire life ....... I do things I never have before. I approach everything "important" with a total focus. I know today what is important to me.
I believe after Lance's chemo , that he understands what is important to him, making a assult on the TDF with total focus the priority in his life......
In society , there are those that are "idol worshippers" and those that want to bring the "idols" down ........
Me.??????? Come July , I will flick on the TV, pour a Guiness, and sit back and enjoy what is happening ....... Because I realize that no matter who is doping in the peloton , I will have bigger obstacles facing me in my life then a few men who want to ride around France in July .

 

[mjolnir2k]

No, that is your opinion.
Not a fact.

No, I have evidence from your posts to prove this fact, so therefore it is not an opinion. Are you aware of the differences?

You can take that I have spoken to authorative sources both in the cycling press and the current peloton.
I have also spoken with former riders, some of whom you have mentioned.

Yet you cannot name them? Are you in the witness protection program? Did they request you not use their names in posts on cycling forums? Odd, if someone tells me something that I then post as fact I would be man enouggh to reveal my source.

He wasn't a dominant cyclist.
His progression ?
What progression is this ?

His double stage race win at the Tour DuPont in 1995/95 ?
I suppose that is progress of sorts.
Compared to his three out of four failures to finish the TDF.

Here's Lance's record pre-his first tour win (1999). Wish I was as Non-Dominant! Sure seems like a reasonable progression to me. The man did a LOT of stage races (or don't the Vuelta, P-N, TdS, TdH, TdP count?) and placed VERY well at them. he didn't just pop up at the tour and start winning.

1998
1st Tour of Luxembourg, one stage win
1st Rheinland Pfalz Tour
1st Ride for the Roses criterium
1st Cascade Classic
2nd First Union Invitational
4th USPro Championship
4th Tour of Holland
4th Vuelta Espana
4th World Time Trial Championship
4th World Road Race Championship
25th End of year world ranking

1997 Lance joins Team USPS

1996
1st Fleche Wallone
1st Tour DuPont, five stage wins
1st Fresca Classic stage win
2nd Paris-Nice
2nd Liege-Bastogne-Liege
2nd GP Eddy Merckx
2nd Tour of Holland
4th Leeds Classic
4th GP Suisse
6th Olympic Time Trial
8th GP Harelbeke
11th Milan - San Remo
12th Olympic Road Race
14th San Sebastian Classic
17th Amstel Gold
9th End of year world ranking

1995
1st stage win Tour de France, 36th overall
1st San Sebastian Classic
1st Tour DuPont, three stage wins
1st Paris-Nice stage win
1st West Virginia Mountain Classic, one stage win
1st Tour of America race series
2nd Thrift Drug Classic
5th CoreStates USPro Championship
6th Liege-Bastogne-Liege
15th End of year world ranking

1994
1st Thrift Drug Classic
2nd Tour DuPont, one stage win
2nd Liege-Bastogne-Liege
2nd San Sebastian Classic
7th Tour of Switzerland
7th World Road Race Championship
25th End of year world ranking

1993
1st World Road Race Championship
1st Tour de France stage win
1st CoreStates USPro Championship
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1st Thrift Drug Classic
1st Tour of Galicia
1st West Virginia Mountain Classic, two stage wins
1st Tour of America series
* Winner of $1 million Thrift Drug Triple Crown
2nd Tour DuPont, one stage win
3rd Tour of Sweden, one stage win
5th Leeds Classic
9th Paris-Nice
14th Championship of Zurich
21st End of year world ranking

1992
1st First Union Grand Prix
1st Thrift Drug Classic
1st Trittico Premondiale second leg
1st La Primavera Tour, three stage wins
1st Settimana Bergamasca stage win
2nd Championship of Zurich
8th Coppa Bernocchi
12th Tour DuPont
14th Tour of Galicia, one stage win
14th Olympic Road Race
17th GP Teleglobe
* Signed with Motorola following Olympics

1991 * Signed with Subaru-Montgomery
1st US Amateur Championship
1st Settimana Bergamasca

1990
5th US Amateur Time Trial Championship
11th World Amatur Championship

Well I can read and understand statistics.
can you ?

see above. I read very well. Do you?

And now that we're discussing insights and the peloton - how do you know Lance Armstrong is clean ?
Do you have any contacts in the peloton out there in Maine ?

I don't know he's clean or dirty, I only know that I (unlike some) don't care to sling mud at a man who has done nothing to be proven dishonest.

We hicks in Maine may not be as super cultural as you, but we do know enough not to sling mud and charges at people we don't know and we ARE able to appreciate someone's achievements without feeling like it lessens our own.

I wonder why there were never any rumours about Indurain or Hinault or Merckx or Anquetil when they - to use your words "one person or team wins one event for too long."
They all dominated the event - why weren't they subject to rumours ?

Maybe it's all a conspiracy, I suppose against Lance Armstrong and America (roll eyes) !

(note to the editor : why wasn't LeMond subject to the same rumours ??????)

Are you kidding...Merckx, Hinault and LeMond WERE subjected to rumors and innuendo from the foreign press, the tifosi and disgruntled racers. Check your history. Indurain is the only one you mentioned that remained above it.

You show your true colors and your agenda is clear. Is there a point to this continued banter? You will not change my mind and I cannot save yours from the gutter.

 

[wolfix]

After looking at Lance's record in the previous post where mjolnir2k listed the record with the years ........ I am more impressed with Lance then I was 10 minutes ago ..........
Matter of fact , I am about to forgive him for riding a Trek ...... Ya know , I am going to remove the Gerrie Knetteman worlds jersey hanging above my desk , and replace it with the Worlds jersey Lance signed for me in 1993...
After reading about the struggles Lance seems to be having this year to get in shape , I wonder if the "wonder drugs" are wearing off????????/ ....... Or could it be the "choices' he has made in the last 9 months ???? You know .......
" Should I get up , ride 150 kms in the cold rain , or should I stay here in bed and have coffee with Cheryl Crow ????? "

Personally , I would stay in bed..... Of course I have no idea what it is like to win a TDF either .......

 

[mjolnir2k]

" Should I get up , ride 150 kms in the cold rain , or should I stay here in bed and have coffee with Cheryl Crow ?????

After seeing Cheryl Crow in that sexy yellow dress at the Oscars, I would be inclined to stay in bed!

 

[limerickman]

Yet you cannot name them? Are you in the witness protection program? Did they request you not use their names in posts on cycling forums? Odd, if someone tells me something that I then post as fact I would be man enouggh to reveal my source.

Why, am I required to name sources ?
You do not accept that journalists and professional riders believe that Lance Armstrong is doping and have said so ?

I am not prepared to publicly name the sources who I have within the cycling media, or in the professional peloton.
Especially not to you.

Here's Lance's record pre-his first tour win (1999). Wish I was as Non-Dominant! Sure seems like a reasonable progression to me. The man did a LOT of stage races (or don't the Vuelta, P-N, TdS, TdH, TdP count?) and placed VERY well at them. he didn't just pop up at the tour and start winning.

1998
1st Tour of Luxembourg, one stage win
1st Rheinland Pfalz Tour
1st Ride for the Roses criterium
1st Cascade Classic
2nd First Union Invitational
4th USPro Championship
4th Tour of Holland
4th Vuelta Espana
4th World Time Trial Championship
4th World Road Race Championship
25th End of year world ranking

1997 Lance joins Team USPS

1996
1st Fleche Wallone (one day race)
1st Tour DuPont, five stage wins
1st Fresca Classic stage win
2nd Paris-Nice (not a win though)
2nd Liege-Bastogne-Liege (one day race)
2nd GP Eddy Merckx (one day race)
2nd Tour of Holland (not a win though)
4th Leeds Classic (one day race)
4th GP Suisse
6th Olympic Time Trial (one day race)
8th GP Harelbeke
11th Milan - San Remo (one day race)
12th Olympic Road Race (one day race)
14th San Sebastian Classic (one day race)
17th Amstel Gold (one day race)
9th End of year world ranking

1995
1st stage win Tour de France, 36th overall (the only TDF he managed to finish in four starts).
1st San Sebastian Classic (one day race)
1st Tour DuPont, three stage wins
1st Paris-Nice stage win (didn't manage to win on GC)
1st West Virginia Mountain Classic, one stage win (never heard of it)
1st Tour of America race series (?????????????????????)
2nd Thrift Drug Classic (??????????????????????)
5th CoreStates USPro Championship (????????????????)
6th Liege-Bastogne-Liege (one day race)
15th End of year world ranking

1994
1st Thrift Drug Classic (?????????????????????)
2nd Tour DuPont, one stage win (no overall victory)
2nd Liege-Bastogne-Liege (one day race)
2nd San Sebastian Classic (one day race)
7th Tour of Switzerland (no victory overall)
7th World Road Race Championship (one day race)
25th End of year world ranking

1993
1st World Road Race Championship (one day race)
1st Tour de France stage win
1st CoreStates USPro Championship (one day race)
1st Trofeo Laigueglia
1st Thrift Drug Classic (one day race - ?????????????????????????)
1st Tour of Galicia
1st West Virginia Mountain Classic, two stage wins (????????????????????)
1st Tour of America series
* Winner of $1 million Thrift Drug Triple Crown (whatever this is ??????)
2nd Tour DuPont, one stage win (no overall victory)
3rd Tour of Sweden, one stage win
5th Leeds Classic (one day race)
9th Paris-Nice
14th Championship of Zurich
21st End of year world ranking

1992
1st First Union Grand Prix
1st Thrift Drug Classic
1st Trittico Premondiale second leg
1st La Primavera Tour, three stage wins
1st Settimana Bergamasca stage win
2nd Championship of Zurich
8th Coppa Bernocchi
12th Tour DuPont
14th Tour of Galicia, one stage win
14th Olympic Road Race
17th GP Teleglobe
* Signed with Motorola following Olympics

A lot of one day race victories.
Very little stage race overall victories between 1992-1996.

Go back to the analogy Carl Lewis winning the sprints, gets cancer, comes back and wins the marathon.
That's what we're being asked to consider by you.

I don't know he's clean or dirty, I only know that I (unlike some) don't care to sling mud at a man who has done nothing to be proven dishonest.

We hicks in Maine may not be as super cultural as you, but we do know enough not to sling mud and charges at people we don't know and we ARE able to appreciate someone's achievements without feeling like it lessens our own.

Not about culture - it's about evaluating what evidence is there.

The evidence shows that LA was not a successful stage race rider between
1992-1996 and he certainly wasn't anywhere near winning a TDF.

You claim you don't sling mud.
You're a liar.
Who was it that said "he'd hand Eddy Merckx his ass on a plate" ?

So which is it - you don't go around slinging mud, yet you try to trash talk
Merckx.
Do YOU know the difference ?

 

[limerickman]

After seeing Cheryl Crow in that sexy yellow dress at the Oscars, I would be inclined to stay in bed!

I guessed your eyesight was bad - now you've just proven it !

 

[wolfix]

The Carl Lewis comparision is a bad one ...... A sprinter is a man that specializes in intense efforts for short periods ..... And the term of sprinter applies to roadies is not the same as a "true sprinter."..... Indurain, Greg, Lance, Eddy, and Hinault were not sprinters ..... {With the training they had, but I believe they could have been with track training } ........ I was a track sprinter , and a competitive one regionally, and as hard as I trained , I was pathetic on the road and in TT's....... I know the difference.
The races Lance was competitive in ......
1993 World championships
I was going to list them , but the fact is , I do not see one event that is considered a sprint , as Carl Lewis, as a "sprinter" would define a "sprint race."
I would love to see the articles that other riders have claimed Lance is dirty,,,,,,,,, But not from riders who have been busted already as their crediability is minimal......

And not from angry women that have been fired fron the team...... I think it would be interesting to know as to why that woman massage therapist was fired.....
Limerickman.... You could ask one of your inside connections the real story........

 

[Flyer]

Why, am I required to name sources?


I am not prepared to publicly name the sources who I have within the cycling media, or in the professional peloton.

Especially not to you.


Trash talking and mud slinging...
Do YOU know the difference ?

Limerickman:

The rube that is mojolnir has finally got under your skin too. I am the chief target of his name-calling and pedophile rants.

And naming sources is wholly unnecessary--because these people are on the payroll of the doped teams and/or industry insiders earning a living.

It is obivious to all who read the posts that mojolnir knows prescious little about bicycle racing amongst experienced racers.

He knows even less about the history of the sport. Apparently, when he attends the TDF he does not down look at the mountainous roads and read the doping slogans and references to the medical truth.

He is a major source of embarrassment to the United States with his blithering Texas Long-Horn Cowboy Hatted, pistol shooting Ya Hoooo, drunken style.

He accused me of being unAmerican. Well if he is an American---he is a disgraceful one.

He name-calls everyone who fails to endorse Lance or questions his varying denials of doping compliance.

Barry Bonds has NEVER admitted to sterid use. Never! But it is obvious that he is indeed a user--along with income & gift tax evasion, adultery, perjury, and possible money laundering crimes too.

He has not been convicted of a crime. Do I believe his word? Of course not.

Is Greg Lemond 100% clean from doping? No way.

Is Greg a self-serving jealous jerk? Absolutely not.

Does Greg know more about doping: You bet

Does Greg get in trouble for speaking out: Yes.

Do all athletes dope that exact same way? No

Is Eddie and Axel Merckx clean? No

Was Oscar Camenzind clean when he won the 1998 World Road Race? No

Was Lance clean when he won the 1999 TDF? No

Was 2nd place Alex Zulle clean? No

David Millar and Mark McGwire are a perfect examples proving that all (100%) of the top athletes (the entire Division 1 to Pro) level are doped to varying degrees. (some less, some more, some super doped for key events)

Both Miller & McGwire denied using illegal drugs. That said so before they were exposed. They repeated their emphatic denials and name-called any accuser, in the exact same manner Mojolnir2k does. So petty.

Then when caught (Eprex in his bedroom, Millar) (under oath in the case of McGwire) they confess, choked up with teary eyes.

Mjolnir doesn't even know which athletes have been caught or which have confessed, nor does he care. He is convinced that everyone is clean---unless you mention their personal tearful public confession---which he reluctantly accepts as evidence of a crime.

Since doping abuse confessions number Zero to 3 per year, Moljolnir2k world enjoys a 99-100% PED free zone ratio.

The truth is the reverse.

If only 1-50% of the riders doped, nobody would ever be exposed. The doping is so acceted and standardized that accidents do happen. (Accidents of being exposed)

Denial is the standard response. (no conspiracy)

Lying, denial and doping are inextricably linked.


If an athlete uses more powerful drugs than do his competiors, he may have an unfair advantage.

That is at the crux of the PED doping madness.

 

[limerickman]

The Carl Lewis comparision is a bad one ...... A sprinter is a man that specializes in intense efforts for short periods ..... And the term of sprinter applies to roadies is not the same as a "true sprinter."..... Indurain, Greg, Lance, Eddy, and Hinault were not sprinters ..... {With the training they had, but I believe they could have been with track training } ........ I was a track sprinter , and a competitive one regionally, and as hard as I trained , I was pathetic on the road and in TT's....... I know the difference.
The races Lance was competitive in ......
1993 World championships
I was going to list them , but the fact is , I do not see one event that is considered a sprint , as Carl Lewis, as a "sprinter" would define a "sprint race."
I would love to see the articles that other riders have claimed Lance is dirty,,,,,,,,, But not from riders who have been busted already as their crediability is minimal......

And not from angry women that have been fired fron the team...... I think it would be interesting to know as to why that woman massage therapist was fired.....
Limerickman.... You could ask one of your inside connections the real story........

First of all, the Lewis/marathon comparison is analogous to the one day/stage race performance and the differential therein.

The discipline and the talent to perform in a one day race (Carl Lewis) is mutually exclusive from the talent to perform in a stage race (marathon).
They're different disciplines.
Some riders can do both : LeMond, Hinault, Merckx.
Others, are one day racers who develope in to stage racers : kelly,
Jalabert.
But guys like Museeuw, Bettini, Tafi, would never be able to contest overall
GC in a stage race.

I would contend that Lance Armstrong was no way near being a stage race
rider in the period 1992-1996.
He was a one day rider - who was successful in 1992-1996.
Not the most successful one day rider in that period, though.
But successful nonetheless.
LA was a Bettini, Museeuw, type rider in 1992-1996.

Finally, you alluded to my contacts in the peloton and media - I never referred to articles written about LA.
Of course, some articles have been written by David Walsh and others who question LA's improvement.
These articles are in the public domain and are there to be read.

The content of what I have discussed with some riders and some journalists
has been covered, in part, by some journalists and in some published articles.

 

[limerickman]

Limerickman:

The rube that is mojolnir has finally got under your skin too. I am the chief target of his name-calling and pedophile rants.

And naming sources is wholly unnecessary--because these people are on the payroll of the doped teams and/or industry insiders earning a living.

It is obivious to all who read the posts that mojolnir knows prescious little about bicycle racing amongst experienced racers.

He knows even less about the history of the sport. Apparently, when he attends the TDF he does not down look at the mountainous roads and read the doping slogans and references to the medical truth.

He is a major source of embarrassment to the United States with his blithering Texas Long-Horn Cowboy Hatted, pistol shooting Ya Hoooo, drunken style.

He accused me of being unAmerican. Well if he is an American---he is a disgraceful one.

He name-calls everyone who fails to endorse Lance or questions his varying denials of doping compliance.

Barry Bonds has NEVER admitted to sterid use. Never! But it is obvious that he is indeed a user--along with income & gift tax evasion, adultery, perjury, and possible money laundering crimes too.

He has not been convicted of a crime. Do I believe his word? Of course not.

Is Greg Lemond 100% clean from doping? No way.

Is Greg a self-serving jealous jerk? Absolutely not.

Does Greg know more about doping: You bet

Does Greg get in trouble for speaking out: Yes.

Do all athletes dope that exact same way? No

Is Eddie and Axel Merckx clean? No

Was Oscar Camenzind clean when he won the 1998 World Road Race? No

Was Lance clean when he won the 1999 TDF? No

Was 2nd place Alex Zulle clean? No

David Millar and Mark McGwire are a perfect examples proving that all (100%) of the top athletes (the entire Division 1 to Pro) level are doped to varying degrees. (some less, some more, some super doped for key events)

Both Miller & McGwire denied using illegal drugs. That said so before they were exposed. They repeated their emphatic denials and name-called any accuser, in the exact same manner Mojolnir2k does. So petty.

Then when caught (Eprex in his bedroom, Millar) (under oath in the case of McGwire) they confess, choked up with teary eyes.

Mjolnir doesn't even know which athletes have been caught or which have confessed, nor does he care. He is convinced that everyone is clean---unless you mention their personal tearful public confession---which he reluctantly accepts as evidence of a crime.

Since doping abuse confessions number Zero to 3 per year, Moljolnir2k world enjoys a 99-100% PED free zone ratio.

The truth is the reverse.

If only 1-50% of the riders doped, nobody would ever be exposed. The doping is so acceted and standardized that accidents do happen. (Accidents of being exposed)

Denial is the standard response. (no conspiracy)

Lying, denial and doping are inextricably linked.


If an athlete uses more powerful drugs than do his competiors, he may have an unfair advantage.

That is at the crux of the PED doping madness.

I can understand why people get very hot under the collar and our friend mjolnir2k seems to be pretty worked up over this issue.
When you're a fan, it's natural to take offence when someone questions the authenticity of a performance.
Unfortunately, he resorted to insulting you and then he began insulting me.

As you say he refuses to acknowledge why people would ask legitimate questions.
I would like to believe that what I see from all cyclists is the the result of 100% talent and dedication.
But, given the eivdence to date, we know that not all cyclists are clean.

If I thought that there was a scintilla of evidence that would show LA had the ability to do what he has done since 1998, in the time period 1992-1996,
then I would accept LA's explanations.
but there is not one shred of evidence of VOmax, lactate thresholds or whatever in the period 1992-1996.
The statistical evidence shows a man who was a good one day rider between 1992-1996.
That's all.
And from my knowledge of this sport, being a one day rider, is a universe away from being a grand tour contender, never mind, winner.
Throw in the fact that LA appears to beat, at will, the greatest climbers and roleurs without difficulty in the toughest race on the calendar, there are bound to be questions.

 

[Flyer]

,,,,,,,,, But not from riders who have been busted already as their crediability is minimal......


As apposed to whom? A doped rider--to be named later--who might accuse Lance of doping presently. Is your request for such a confirmation even plausible?

And, you won't believe Greg Lemond?


And not from angry women that have been fired fron the team...... I think it would be interesting to know as to why that woman massage therapist was fired.....

This women was referred to as 'the heart and sole of the USPO team'; before becoming a whistleblower. Now she is a devil?


Ex-USPO doctor Prentice Stephen, MD had a similar problem.

You people will not believe anyone except Lance--as to what Lance uses as blood.


Sounds like the Jose Conseco, jealous liar label fits all whistleblowers---especially if that message is true.


To recap: You won't believe;

Greg Lemond, Prentice Stephen, MD (re:Tyler & Marty), Emily O'Rielly, Stephen Swartz.

But you will believe a commercial theme.