MTB slicks thread...



danielhaden said:
OH MY GOSH!!! I FINALLY UNDERSTAND!!!


Yes, those who are interested in creating a small stature road bike out of a mountain bike---would absolutely hate what I've been writing about.
Some have been behaving as if sitting on a pinecone at an auction, and I have not understood it. Now it makes sense. The reason behind this approach, I don't comprehend, because road bikes are available at a similar price point as these projects. Would someone explain the benefits?

Those who own a mountain bike that has tall gears and narrow rims--would find information about speedy big tires totally pointless, and the waste of time could have been offensive. My apologies.

In fact, only the people that love the sensation of a human-powered motorcycle--a mountain bike--would get any use out of what I've been writing about. This group loves the idea of adding speed to their ride without losing this fun sensation. I love the idea of adding features without removing any, and I consider the motorcycle-like ride to be a beneficial feature.

If this idea is lost to you, yet you want a "confident" feeling ride, see the last of this post for a super-easy super-speed narrow tire method towards a high performance hybrid.


To answer a question:
Data is from foreign markets that value multi-feature bicycles.
Just as fast? As in exactly? No, never. The approach is too different. It always (so far) goes either faster or slower. Momentum is the key difference. The second difference is that even though grip can be balanced for contact patch size for any size, the larger size can cause far more variable results depending on road surface varities. Momentum differences, despite more momentum being inherently fun, will cause you to ride at a totally different speed, even though you can usually make the same average as the rest of your group ride. This might be tiresome in stop-and-go city rides during stop and go, and it does cost extra for using up more brake pads (when the energy you put in is released as momentum, causing your bike to nearly pass the others for a brief period) under city group ride conditions. The big-tire approach does not alter this aspect of a mountain bike; it only makes possible doing the same thing at a faster rate.



**For all of those who were offended or confused by my previous postings, here's a treat, although it is obnoxiously simple.

EASIER HYBRID METHOD (1):
Purchasing a road bike, and then altering the handlebars to suit, seems to be a more effective way of creating a faster hybrid, because the machine was already designed for road speed.
I have tried it, and it was remarkably successful.
Case study was in adding tiny, cushy, touring tires (T-Serv 28mm), a 3" stem riser (Delta), a more medically-advisable saddle, and whatever handlebars you prefer (as long as you don't slouch), to an ordinary road bike. Features were added, none were lost, and very high speed was not decreased. However, expect to go faster over rough pavement, slower over extremely smooth or wet pavement, and faster over gravel, all while being more comfortable.
Effective! And a very obvious way to a confident, comfortable and competent ride.

I will get a big laugh if you start quoting tire hardness or efficiency when even the smallest pebble will slam the efficiency right out of a hard tire--but try if you must. My application is not a machine upon a labratory surface, so this is not the bike for you if you race within labratories. ;)
Don't start creating roadie conspiracy theories and leave the ham theatrics out of it. I commute both on an MTB and a roadbike and have no particular bias.
Let me make it simple for you:
You tell us that 2+" MTB tyres allow a very low rolling resistance. This is counterintuitive, and something that noone else espouses, and so we aren't going to buy it without proof. Proof comes from data. Very simple. If you don't like laboratory data (although such a dislike is irrational), then look for studies with power taps on real bikes in the real world. If they don't exist, then we will simply accept that what you are saying is opinion only. That's cool, but it would be polite of you to make it clear from the beginning that it is opinion.
Momentum of the whole system, by the way, is much more significant than the rotational momentum of your tyres. If you weigh much less than my 90kg, then you are not going to come rolling past me on the flat, regardless of your tyres.
 
Yep. We want proof. If you can't supply that, then pipe down already.

ps to improve your posts, make them short and concise. AND tentative.
 
danielhaden said:
EASIER HYBRID METHOD (1):
Purchasing a road bike, and then altering the handlebars to suit, seems to be a more effective way of creating a faster hybrid, because the machine was already designed for road speed.
I have tried it, and it was remarkably successful.
Case study was in adding tiny, cushy, touring tires (T-Serv 28mm), a 3" stem riser (Delta), a more medically-advisable saddle, and whatever handlebars you prefer (as long as you don't slouch), to an ordinary road bike. Features were added, none were lost, and very high speed was not decreased. However, expect to go faster over rough pavement, slower over extremely smooth or wet pavement, and faster over gravel, all while being more comfortable.
Been there, done that. Flat bar road bike. e.g. Giant CRX series. Why would you blow your bucks buying a roadie and convert that down???? Much cheaper to get a flatbar racer.
 
Little Jackie said:
Learn to write more concisely and proof read your work before you post. Also consider the adult audience and their experience before you post. This will cut down on the ridicule you receive and possibly your points will be more valid!

Mountain bikes are far cheaper than road bikes and easy to upgrade cheaply to a more advantageous performance level for general riding. I have upgraded my gearing on my Apollo Panther mtb to 11-28 7speed and fitted 24" x 1.75 city tires(semi- slick) and am amazed at its performance (similar to my 650c Felt road bike) I use the mountain bike for rough paths and short journeys!

cost ratio $350 : $1000
I've just got to know: Fast 1.75 tires??
I've never had luck with that size.
Are they available in a 26" version?
Is a "file tread" or modest tread version available for city riders?

Thank you!
 
jur said:
Been there, done that. Flat bar road bike. e.g. Giant CRX series. Why would you blow your bucks buying a roadie and convert that down???? Much cheaper to get a flatbar racer.
Why would you do this?

If you start with a machine designed for speed. . .
Equip it with a speedometer. . .
Make only one change at a time. . .

Then you can add features to it while easily measuring any effect on speed.

This is certain, except for, and in my opinion, changes that make you feel better may encourage you to go much faster while better health may enhance longer rides.
And, also in my opinion, that is not an invalid way to go faster.

In my experience (yours may differ, and I hope it does), if you do not start with a machine designed for speed, then you have to deal with all of the variables at once with no established point of reference.
 
jur said:
Here is some real data. Let's see danielhaden's.
Okay! But, I'll ask for your help on something at the end. . . ;)

My study of large tires was only for those who are addicted to the sensation of large tires. In my opinion, these cannot compete for a gold medal, but few can add much speed to a mountain bike without loss of this sensation. I believe that people who disagree are uninterested in this aspect.


As for my other study. . .

I have been unable to compare my results with the chart data because, even at the same size (especially at the same tire size), the effects and application of hard vs soft tires is completely different, even though timings and speedometer show similar or enhanced speeds. I have some results.

What is tested:
Durable, yet flexible, road tires that I tested have hit-or-miss performance in comparison to race tires. The greatest success has been the smallest size Pasela TG, T-Serv and Ruffy Tuffy--only successful when applied to narrow rims. Since my concentration is in adding features without losing features or speed, and not competitive sport, the limited data I have to report to you at this time is:

Fourty-two pleased weekend warriers who report same or faster speeds via timing or speedometer.
This is not especially valid data because of:
1) The variety of tires replaced--varies.
2) The comfortable cyclist seems to perform much differently.
3) The bikes are used on rough pavement where touring tires excel.
4) Frequently, only the front tire was replaced.
5) Confidence may encourage non-athletes to cycle faster.
6) The point of the work is health benefit rather than performance increase, so sizing is often adjusted at the same time as a tire change, and this was performed by different people.

For competitive sport, the only use of this study (I believe) could be the enhanced performance on tarmac, cobblestone, rough pavement, packed gravel, nails, screws, glass, wire, shards, wet manhole lids (tested w. T-serv), squirrels, fallen branches, motor oil, bricks, bones, fruit, sand, loose patches, lost car parts, and a variety of wet surfaces with an amount of water (or water and oil) that also varies.
This is not on performance charts for race tires. Comparison is beyond my ability, but thanks for asking. ;)

The link was useful to me because:
To me, it highlights that a larger contact patch gives much more room for error in the area of rubber formula friction/grip vs. size of contact patch. That's why I think that very narrow rims are a more-certain way to get performance.
To me, safe bets are as entertaining as the job of vacuuming the floor, except when something goes awry, such as my project of increasing a Hoover that was a great success on carpet but would suddenly destoy a throw rug or put dirt onto a hard surface. In this same way, large roller tires and small race tires alike can have very unpredictable results on non-optimal surfaces.

I have attempted to ignore the combination of gravel with 1.5 to 1.75 mountain bike slicks even though it is unusually speedy, because I have had no luck with these on pavement when their job is be competing with a road tire. My favorite road tire was remarkably slow when increased to this size in the exact same rubber compound. In my test, those that came close to high performance were remarkably prone to slide, while there were both smaller and larger options (with similar to higher performance) that do not slide (showing that sliding can be unnecessary to performance).

Help!

Can somebody shed some light on this (available mid size mtb slick, fast, does not slide)?
 
Daniel,

Hello!

This is an Australian Forum and a local topic!!

We try to discuss what is available here, locally and what suits our climate and riding styles.

So, take your Hypothetical Yankee **** and go home!! :mad:
 
But haven't you found your ideal tyre in the Schwalbe Big Apple? The Super Moto could be better even. According to Schwalbe, they have very low rolling resistance due to casing design, give nice suspension due to the balloon effect and have a good grip due to the large contact patch.
 
jur said:
But haven't you found your ideal tyre in the Schwalbe Big Apple? The Super Moto could be better even. According to Schwalbe, they have very low rolling resistance due to casing design, give nice suspension due to the balloon effect and have a good grip due to the large contact patch.
Bravo!

I haven't tested them yet.

I purchase tires for a particular application--that's when I sometimes get to test them. It is the reports of "better traction than the Big Apple" that cause me not to purchase these because. . .because of the ever increasing pile of slow tires that have all advertised improved traction next to the bigger pile of slow road tires that have offered "the same thing" in a larger size.
I fear the rubber compound may be more sticky. Curiosity about these will catch me eventually! And then I'll get some. The "Fat Frank" from Schwable is once again up in the bombproof class, but this time with a rolling block pattern that keeps more of it up off the road. Now, that's interesting. That, and some helium. It is so very tempting to try that.

;)
 
gclark8 said:
Daniel,

Hello!

This is an Australian Forum and a local topic!!

We try to discuss what is available here, locally and what suits our climate and riding styles.

So, take your Hypothetical Yankee **** and go home!! :mad:
heh heh, we Aussies are a sceptical bunch. And you are ruthless ;) :D
 
gclark8 said:
Daniel,

Hello!

This is an Australian Forum and a local topic!!

We try to discuss what is available here, locally and what suits our climate and riding styles.

So, take your Hypothetical Yankee **** and go home!! :mad:
My apologies! With your attitude, I had assumed that you were from the United States.
 
Hey, hope I'm not O/T-ing but what sorta pressures are you guys running on your SportContacts? Any recommendations as to what I should use on my 1.6"? I'm not really concerned about bumps, I just like things fast.:D Not really sure what's the maximum that my tyre and tube can handle though...
 
Sport Contact 1.6.
From the 2006 Conti book:
Recomemded: 65psi
Max: 80psi
However it should be safe to go 10% over max.
 
George, why are you letting your LBS gag you? A major function of a forum such as this is to allow unbiased discussion of the merit or lack thereof of various products. Have they threatened to withdraw your sweet deals?
 
Imagine you've done 2000km's on two dodgy $20 dunlop semi-slicks. Your quietly working away in your office and a popping sound catches your attention. What is that? Answer - inner tube is trying to do that Alien busting through the chest thing! right out of the front of my tyre.
Now do 60km's a day on 1x **** semi-slick and 1x fat MTB tyre.
SLUGGISH to say the least.
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Where is this going?

Just a big plug for the two Conti Sportcontacts 26x1.3's now gracing my ride
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an Avanti Barracuda
She just wants to move!!!!
Plus the two massive thorns I pulled out of the front tyre and no flat, just got to love that.
Really recommend these babies - light, fast and bullet proof.
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ps. my folks dished out for them, Bday present
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Only thing left to do is test them in the wet! Could be fun?
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