Near Miss from Trying to Signal

[Dave Kahn]

"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Sounds like one of two things. Either Behemoth has a serious handling problem
> or you are so tense that you are fighting the steering rather than relaxing
> and lettin the bike handle itself. I suspect the former from the way you
> describe it. Get a bike shop to check it over, especially the headset. You
> should be able to lift both hands of the bar in a straight line and have no
> worries about it suddenly slewing left or right. Sounds like that is not
> the case here. Excuse for a new bike?

I think the first priority is to establish whether the problem is in
the bike or the rider. Elisa Francesca, I think you need to put an
experienced cyclist on this bike to evaluate it. They should be able
to ride it up and down the street no hands. If you don't know anyone
personally then ask your bike shop to test ride it for you. If the
bike turns out to be stable then you need to do something about your
technique. If it's unstable in the hands of an experienced rider it's
almost certainly something that can be fixed. Looking at the photo of
the bike I can't believe that the design would make it inherently
unstable at low speed. If you are not a very confident cyclist it's
essential that you can trust your bike.

--
Dave...

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Old Fart at Play wrote:

> Last time I was in Cambridge the bikes were ridden
> by psychopaths rather than on cycle paths.

A.K.A. foreign students. They like to take roundabouts the wrong way. Mind you, I'm
not so easy myself with the left-hand traffic but I'm far too cowardly to try any of
those stunts, and just end up pushing my bike most of the time.

What gets me is all those clueless pedestrians milling around in the middle of
Trinity Street, as if there weren't perfectly good sidewalks on either side. I guess
it's really fun to stroll a pram down the yellow line.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Bernie wrote:

> Do you still have your other bike? "Myrtille"? Changing bikes now and
> then can add to your riding skills and give a little insight into
> what's going on with the 'problem' bike. In my experience, even similar
> bikes feel different.

I do still have Myrtille and use her for the supermarket runs. Steering-wise, there
is no comparison, she is so sweet and easy and I can do all sorts of things with
her that I wouldn't attempt on Behemoth. On the other hand, I _hate_ that
derailleur which is _never_ in the right gear and had an accident on Myrtille this
winter when her over-sharp V-brakes threw me over the handlebars. I've had the
brakes adjusted since, but there's still the need to tie up my skirts so that they
don't get caught in her works and her tendency to **** my clothes and the tyres
which are constantly deflating and and and...

> Also, it sounds like
> you ride in a lot of traffic congestion where you commute. Perhaps a
> peaceful carless bike path will make a difference in how you ride
> simply because it is easier to relax.

My route to work includes a bike path and some busy roads. The supermarket route is
mainly bike path and parking lot. I wish there were bike paths everywhere but alas,
that's not in my control.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Simon D wrote:

> As I've mentioned in my post, I agree that the forks are likely to be
> contributing, owing to lack of rake. However, don't forget that they're
> suspension forks, Velvet, and have some offset at the crown. There's not
> *quite* as little rake as the picture at first suggests!

No, the fork is not suspended. I decided on an unsuspended bike because my own
weight is over the limit to make it feasible and my already lousy balance is
perturbed rather than appeased by that squishy feeling.

I can measure the rake at about 12 cm. The fork looks straight, but in fact the
point at which it starts to bend is quite high, 18 cm over the wheel axel, so
the angle is subtle. That said, I have no way of knowing if this is all
different on other bikes.

It is possible to adjust the angle of the headset. Generally I find the
steering stabler when it is farther forward (all hell breaks lose when it is
farther back). However, at the moment it is about as far forward as I can get
it and still reach the handlebars, without raising the front tube, which in
turn makes it unstable again.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Simon D]

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>

> No, the fork is not suspended. I decided on an unsuspended bike because my
own
> weight is over the limit to make it feasible and my already lousy balance
is
> perturbed rather than appeased by that squishy feeling.

My mistake! Are the forks fitted to your cycle the same as the ones in the
picture?

> I can measure the rake at about 12 cm. The fork looks straight, but in
fact the
> point at which it starts to bend is quite high, 18 cm over the wheel axel,
so
> the angle is subtle. That said, I have no way of knowing if this is all
> different on other bikes.

That's a very long rake, and shouldn't be the cause. However, although I can
see that the forks in the picture *are* what I call "banana forks" (which
begin their rake higher up the fork - prettier and more modern, but far less
comfortable), TBH the rake doesn't look to be 12cm to me! Maybe your bike
doesn't have the same forks - as above?

> It is possible to adjust the angle of the headset. Generally I find the
> steering stabler when it is farther forward (all hell breaks lose when it
is
> farther back). However, at the moment it is about as far forward as I can
get
> it and still reach the handlebars, without raising the front tube, which
in
> turn makes it unstable again.

The reasons for this are that your weight will be more evenly distributed
when you are leaning forward, which will tend to reduce the shimmy you're
experiencing. (If your handlebars are much higher than your saddle - as in
the picture, or more so - then this will increase the imbalance and worsen
your problems.) Also, you have much more leverage over the steering with the
effectively longer stem.



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[David Nutter]

JohnB <[email protected]> said:

> There are also situations where it can be positively dangerous for a
> cyclist to signal such as when turning left when there is a vehicle
> behind that is intending the same. A signal may encourage the vehicle to
> overtake just as the cyclist is also turning with disastrous and
> potentially fatal results.

I know what you mean. One of the most annoying is when I'm trying to get
into position for a junction or roundabout which has two or more approach
lanes, the rightmost of which is the correct one. All too often my signal
right to change lanes seems to encourage motorists behind me in those lanes
to accelerate hard in an effort to get past me before I change lanes and
thus slow them down by some fractional amount.

What's even worse is those persons of dubious ancestry who try it when
you've already started the manoeuvre, the only conclusion I can draw is that
they missed/ignored my signal but pay more attention to changes in road
positioning.

I'm sure my neck will go lopsided sooner or later from the constant
life-saver glances

Regards,

-david

 

[loki]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> [...]
> > The question was addressed to loki since s/he stated a leagl point even
> > within the Uk we have different legal systems so it if worth clarifying
> > where one is from when claiming a point of law, especially in a
> > crossposted thread.
>
> I wasn't claiming a point of law [I'm in Canada btw] It has always been
my
> understanding that signalling was not conditional on there being people in
> the vicinity. If you are turning you signal. Now I haven't read the local
> statutes but it seems like common knowledge hereabouts. Maybe if I
actually
> did read the Ontario Traffic Act I would be disabused of my common
> knowledge assumption... though I doubt it.

Apparently my common knowledge is exceedingly rare. I wuz wrong!!

Excerpt from the Ontario Traffic Act

http://www.golishlaw.com/statutes/oh08ht_a.htm

Signal for left or right turn

142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning
to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway
or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the
roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the
operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a
signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the
intention to make the movement.

--
'Our religion is to go and blow it all
So it's shopping every Sunday at the mall'
-shania twain

 

[JTHouse]

>The supermarket route is
>mainly bike path and parking lot. I wish there were bike paths everywhere but
>alas,
>that's not in my control.

this is why, in my next lifetime, i'm going to be born in the netherlands!

 

[Bernie]

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

>
>Bernie wrote:
>
>>Do you still have your other bike? "Myrtille"? Changing bikes now and
>>then can add to your riding skills and give a little insight into
>>what's going on with the 'problem' bike. In my experience, even similar
>>bikes feel different.
>>
>
>I do still have Myrtille and use her for the supermarket runs. Steering-wise, there
>is no comparison, she is so sweet and easy and I can do all sorts of things with
>her that I wouldn't attempt on Behemoth. On the other hand, I _hate_ that
>derailleur which is _never_ in the right gear and had an accident on Myrtille this
>winter when her over-sharp V-brakes threw me over the handlebars. I've had the
>brakes adjusted since, but there's still the need to tie up my skirts so that they
>don't get caught in her works and her tendency to **** my clothes and the tyres
>which are constantly deflating and and and...
>
>> Also, it sounds like
>>you ride in a lot of traffic congestion where you commute. Perhaps a
>>peaceful carless bike path will make a difference in how you ride
>>simply because it is easier to relax.
>>
>
>My route to work includes a bike path and some busy roads. The supermarket route is
>mainly bike path and parking lot. I wish there were bike paths everywhere but alas,
>that's not in my control.
>
>EFR
>Ile de France
>
>
Okay. I too understand the dilemmas we may face when riding in a city.
It is often a stressful situation. What I was suggesting was riding
purely for recreation on a day off work. You might find pleasant
experiences that do not present themselves while commuting. Riding for
pleasure on a good path, be it in a park or some other "recreational"
route can be a relaxing endeavour.

With a snack, something to drink, a map - or at least an idea - of where
you wish to go, combined with a relaxed timetable may leave you feeling
more comfortable about riding your bikes.

Is it springtime in Paris? I'm jealous!
Bernie

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In news:[email protected],
Bernie <[email protected]> typed:
>
> Is it springtime in Paris? I'm jealous!
>
'Twas tipping it down last weekend. Although Friday evening was good. I love
the chestnut blossoms.

Not that I didn't enjoy my stay there, but...

A

 

[Jacques Moser]

>
> Several other people who've tested her for me have remarked that she
> squirrels, especially at lower speeds. I am due to take her back to her
> dealer for a "contrôle technique" and will raise this issue of the
> steering. But this in itself requires riding her through central Paris,
> which would also require some decent weather and a day off work since I
> sure as hell wouldn't risk the Saturday zoo, so it's quite a project.

As others have confirmed that the bike is not stable, and as you admit
that your sense of balance is not the best, I would suggest you look for
another bike. Even if you want to stick to a "lady's" bike, there must be
some with a more rigid geometry.

Jacques

 

[Mark Buell]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
> Simon D wrote:
>
> > As I've mentioned in my post, I agree that the forks are likely to be
> > contributing, owing to lack of rake. However, don't forget that they're
> > suspension forks, Velvet, and have some offset at the crown. There's not
> > *quite* as little rake as the picture at first suggests!
>
> No, the fork is not suspended. I decided on an unsuspended bike because my own
> weight is over the limit to make it feasible and my already lousy balance is
> perturbed rather than appeased by that squishy feeling.
>
> I can measure the rake at about 12 cm. The fork looks straight, but in fact the
> point at which it starts to bend is quite high, 18 cm over the wheel axel, so
> the angle is subtle. That said, I have no way of knowing if this is all
> different on other bikes.
>
> It is possible to adjust the angle of the headset. Generally I find the
> steering stabler when it is farther forward (all hell breaks lose when it is
> farther back). However, at the moment it is about as far forward as I can get
> it and still reach the handlebars, without raising the front tube, which in
> turn makes it unstable again.
>
> EFR
> Ile de France
FYI, I, for one, enjoy your posts. Thanks.

I am not necessarily of the mind that your actions are responsible for
Behemoth's behavior. The geometry of some bikes can lead to such
problems as you describe. The handlebar movement that you noted
>"And lo, the handlebars start wiggling right out of control, left,
right, left, . . . " sounds very much like what may be called shimmy.

Do a search in Google groups, in rec.bicycles.*, on shimmy and you will
find a number of postings by Jobst Brandt on the causes of shimmy.
Which, BTW, is the rider, or more accurately a combination of the rider
and the bicycle geometry. Another rider might not have the same
experience, because they position themselves differently.

In my experience, when I experience shimmy, if I drop my body to a more
forward-leaning position the shimmy will go away. Try leaning forward as
though you were going to get down on a set of drop handlebars. Or, try
moving down and moving your bum backwards to shift the center of
gravity. Preferably try these things in controlled conditions - i.e.
sans traffic. See what type of movements reduce these tendencies, and
which don't. It might not take much movement at all to reduce or remove
the shimmy.

Mark

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In news:[email protected],
Mark Buell <[email protected]> typed:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> It is possible to adjust the angle of the headset. Generally I find
>> the steering stabler when it is farther forward (all hell breaks
>> lose when it is farther back). However, at the moment it is about as
>> far forward as I can get it and still reach the handlebars, without
>> raising the front tube, which in turn makes it unstable again.
>>
> FYI, I, for one, enjoy your posts. Thanks.

Me too

> I am not necessarily of the mind that your actions are responsible for
> Behemoth's behavior. The geometry of some bikes can lead to such
> problems as you describe. The handlebar movement that you noted
>> "And lo, the handlebars start wiggling right out of control, left,
> right, left, . . . " sounds very much like what may be called shimmy.

She posted that her LBS had fixed it: it was an overtightened headset, and
all seems happy now. It could have been shimmy, but it was far too low a
speed to be occurring on a properly built bike with a moderately sized
rider, so if it were it would have been the headset that caused it.

A