No Shack team on next TDF? Trek-Lemond



poulidor

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Is it already the end of Lance and Bruyneel's team?

That seems similar with the end of Discovery by good doping story.

That could be better for the fabulous Greg Lemond!
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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Only time will tell. It seems preliminary evidence seems to change as these investigation progress.
 

steve

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poulidor said:
Is it already the end of Lance and Bruyneel's team?

That seems similar with the end of Discovery by good doping story.

That could be better for the fabulous Greg Lemond!

Can you please post a little more info.
 

poulidor

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steve said:
Can you please post a little more info.

During last TDF, dubious medical equipments and syringes were found. French Police investigated the case. Today, French Justice reported that those equipements were linked to Astana, and 7 different DNA were identified. But at the moment they don't have DNA of riders so they will request UCI a blood "donation".
Equipement were used to practice illegal injections by WADA code and more important by anti-doping french laws. Even saline IV are forbidden for healhty athletes. If needed athlete had to DNF.

So there is a high probability that 7 of the 9 riders are cooked, so at least 6 of Shack team.

If it's proved to be a doping team program, the management will face jail sentences!
 

slovakguy

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Mar 17, 2006
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given the way aso have worked in the past, won't this be damning for both radio shack and astana?

and, as has been stated above, all this is contingent on afld getting some dna from uci for comparison. no mean feat that, given the level of animosity between the two.

i can see this blowing up as another public relations mess with afld blaming the uci for stopping the investigation dead in its tracks before they can even get it started.
 

poulidor

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slovakguy said:
given the way aso have worked in the past, won't this be damning for both radio shack and astana?

and, as has been stated above, all this is contingent on afld getting some dna from uci for comparison. no mean feat that, given the level of animosity between the two.

i can see this blowing up as another public relations mess with afld blaming the uci for stopping the investigation dead in its tracks before they can even get it started.

It's not AFLD, its french justice... so another level... McQuaid might be sent in jail if it were found that he had protected the dopers.
 

Andrija

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Feb 16, 2005
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Personally I don't think this will result with some sanctions and bans from the Tour. As many times before, it will just rise interest in the Tour.
That is what I think will happen. But if you ask what would I like, I'd finally like to see some evidences properly used and actions taken on Bruyneel's and Armstrong's team, 'cause it's really insulting hearing for years how they are clean and harder working with greater knowledge than others.
I bet Riis is carefully watching what's going on... He already capitalized on this kind of conflict.
 

gtm

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I can't see this stopping Radioshack riding the T de F. Money talks & Armstrong in the 2010 means big money. The french are putting a shot across Lance's bow but I can't see it going anywhere.

Its worth noting they've as yet found no trace of any dope.
 

poulidor

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gtm said:
I can't see this stopping Radioshack riding the T de F. Money talks & Armstrong in the 2010 means big money. The french are putting a shot across Lance's bow but I can't see it going anywhere.

Its worth noting they've as yet found no trace of any dope.
Prohibited method is doping or having doping equipment are illegal...that is the first conclusion of the preliminary investigation which was yesterday published.
So already the french antidoping law has been broken. If riders are identified and have used the medical equipment they would probably be banned of any sport events in France according french laws. More important they will have to explain who helped them to do it, and the helpers will face criminal offense.
We can assume that helpers have left a lot of traces on syringe (fingerprint, DNA,..). When helpers will be identified they would prefer to sing than to go in jail.
 

miketrackman

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As I understand this equipment was not found in possession of any team personnel but in a medical trash bin that the tour gives to all teams. There is a high probability of contamination especially if this bin were dumped or mixed in with other medical waste. Im not sure of the law in france but In america I think it would be very hard to prove that any specific person used any specific method of doping. Chain of custody will be analyzed. Even if Contador and Lance have DNA in that Bin good luck linking anything to them. There could be bandages and such mixed in with the doping equipment.
 

poulidor

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miketrackman said:
As I understand this equipment was not found in possession of any team personnel but in a medical trash bin that the tour gives to all teams. There is a high probability of contamination especially if this bin were dumped or mixed in with other medical waste. Im not sure of the law in france but In america I think it would be very hard to prove that any specific person used any specific method of doping. Chain of custody will be analyzed. Even if Contador and Lance have DNA in that Bin good luck linking anything to them. There could be bandages and such mixed in with the doping equipment.

No, a part of the equipment (syringes, needles) were found in Astana rooms but transfusion seems to have been found in bins.
DNA were taken from needles.

We can suppose that many responsible doctors a,d so would not drop needles without a container to protect other people. With SIDA and other illness that would be considered as a major fault for such professions.
Since many years teams have been constantly warned about that.
 

swampy1970

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I didn't know that Poulidor could type so fast one handed.

Need some extra tissues?

;)
 

matagi

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poulidor said:
We can suppose that many responsible doctors a,d so would not drop needles without a container to protect other people. With SIDA and other illness that would be considered as a major fault for such professions.
Since many years teams have been constantly warned about that.
I would have thought any team involved in doping would be paranoid about accounting for, removing and promptly destroying, all needles, syringes and other equipment so that it could not be found and linked to their team.
 

poulidor

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matagi said:
I would have thought any team involved in doping would be paranoid about accounting for, removing and promptly destroying, all needles, syringes and other equipment so that it could not be found and linked to their team.
It's a good point, but the material was found just 4 days before the TDF end, we can assume that someone who was not happy with the behaviour of Lance, Bruyneel with Contador and did a sabotage.

Or it's possible that because Police were watching them a guy prefered to drop rapidly the bag before being caught or arrested.
 

Andrija

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Or the guilt could end on Astana team doctors
Who are still at Astana? Where ever they are, they'll loose their job.
 

poulidor

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Andrija said:
Or the guilt could end on Astana team doctors
Who are still at Astana? Where ever they are, they'll loose their job.
Sure when someone is in jail he loose his job !

I believe that Bruyneel brought his own doctors to clean Astana house... hopefully they are gone at Lance's team back.
 

Andrija

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poulidor said:
Sure when someone is in jail he loose his job !
They'll loose their job for sure. But they don't need necessary to end in jail

poulidor said:
I believe that Bruyneel brought his own doctors to clean Astana house... hopefully they are gone at Lance's team back.
Hopefully.
 

hpearson

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Smells like BS to me!!!

It always cracks me up the same old story. The "We found syringes story". Right like these guys forgot and left the used syringes in the rooms again. Or they carlessly toss them into the trash in their room. Yeah right!

Plus the blood testing is the definitive test, not some subjective "we found syringes" and we have DNA samples. It is almost humorous.

A dout anything comes from this.