No trains for charity cyclists

[David Nutter]

David Hansen <[email protected]> said:
> On 22 Jun 2004 13:09:42 GMT someone who may be David Nutter
><[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>Voyagers are dreadful creations. No luggage space in the carriages,
>
> Not quite, but not as much as there should be.

What space there is is almost useless. You can't put anything other than a
small rucksack or briefcase on the overhead racks whereas on a GNER-style
train you can get an 80 litre job up there.

>>the stench of burning
>>brake shoe every time the rattletrap monstrosity stops.
>
> Most unlikely. The main braking effort is rheostatic.

They always smell dreadful when they stop, nevertheless. I wonder what
causes it?

Regards,

-david

 

[David Nutter]

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> said:
> David Nutter wrote:
>
>> Voyagers are dreadful creations. No luggage space in the carriages,
>> doors that bite you if you stray too close, noisy diesel engines
>> under the carriage floor, an omnipresent smell of drains and the
>> stench of burning brake shoe every time the rattletrap monstrosity
>> stops. Also, I'm not sure what kind of bikes they intend to fit in
>> the "baggage" car; a BMX might fit easily, but my tourer took 20
>> minutes or so to hang up and secure.
>
> Really? Honest, I've taken the 'bent on a Voyager (without booking) - it
> was trivially easy to hang and secure. I ws astonished!

This was in the alcove on the left of the train facing into the baggage car,
which was too pokey. The one on the right was more spacious but already
occupied. The main problem was the front wheel flopping about and getting
caught on the walls when I was trying to shove the bike in and hold it
steady to introduce the straps. I much prefer the old-style vans where you
just put your bike on the floor.

Regards,

-david

 

[Richard Bates]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:24:49 +0100, Keith Willoughby
<[email protected]> wrote:

>No complaints here for Valley Lines (now Arriva). Trains are regular,
>mostly on time, and as long as you don't travel during commuting time,
>reasonably cheap. (2 quid from Barry Island to Treforest, about 20 miles
>or so, during the evening, 2.20 or so for a CDR)

That's because Barry Island Tourist Council subsidise the fare in
order to encourage people into the most depressing place I have ever
visited


--
Young Musician of the Year 2004 was a fiddle

 

[Tony Raven]

Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> Yes, me. On the basis of my experience of (largely Virgin) trains over
> the past ten years. Or to be strictly precise, over the period ten
> years ago until two years ago, when I vowed never to use one again. The
> service on the old rolling stock got progressively worse as poor
> maintenance led to increasing breakdowns, but that was nothing to the
> consequence of the change to the new rolling stock which had less than
> half the seats of the trains they replaced so were always overcrowded -
> and even more unreliable than the 'old' rolling stock.
>
> It may not be the case that all the trains are always ****. GNER
> certainly seems to be better, and ScotRail run a halfway decent sleeper
> service. But it is true that the system as a whole is overcomplex,
> chaotic and badly run, and that Virgin are the absolute and
> irredeemable pits.

My experience was I rarely used the trains because they were ****. Then they
were privatised, prices came down, service went up so I started to use them a
lot because they were fast and reliable. Then we had the Hatfield accident
and the whole system seems to have fallen apart and been unable to recover.
So I now rarely use the trains which are once more expensive and unreliable.
As for Virgin, my pre-Hatfield experience was extremely good but post Hatfield
they are the pits. Mind you, the way the media report the railways, would you
want to work for them? Is it any wonder therefore that they get the staff
they do?

Tony

 

[Tony Raven]

peter wrote:
>
> Speaking as one of the 'sardines in suits', if you try to take your
> bike on a peak time SWT train into or out of Waterloo you deserve all
> the inconvenience you get.

Is this a good time to mention Bromptons? (I've never yet seen a sardine in
suit that wanted to crawl into the space between seatbacks where I park my B)

Tony

 

[Keith Willoughby]

Richard Bates wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:24:49 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>No complaints here for Valley Lines (now Arriva). Trains are regular,
>>mostly on time, and as long as you don't travel during commuting time,
>>reasonably cheap. (2 quid from Barry Island to Treforest, about 20 miles
>>or so, during the evening, 2.20 or so for a CDR)
>
> That's because Barry Island Tourist Council subsidise the fare

Ah. Really? That does explain a lot, actually, because it's pretty much
the same fare as Cardiff->Teforest. I'd just assumed it was some
zone-pricing artefact.

> in order to encourage people into the most depressing place I have
> ever visited

Never been to Merthyr, then?

I like Barry Island. It's run-down, it's thoroughly on its last legs,
but if you squint and use your imagination, you can just about see how
it used to be a bustling resort destination for a lot of people from the
valleys and even further. And, the beach is still reasonably decent, and
on a fine day you'll see a lot of people enjoying themselves.

I don't recommend it at 7:35 a.m. on a cold Sunday mornign, though.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:21:35 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>the way the media report the railways, would you
>want to work for them? Is it any wonder therefore that they get the staff
>they do?

To say nothing of overpaid managers mounting smah & grab raids on the
pension scheme and awarding themselves six-figure bonuses on the
strength of it.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:39:08 +0100, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote
(more or less):

>"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
>>
>> Mark South wrote:
>>
>> > This is the trains equivalent of a single "helmet saved my skull"
>> > anecdote.
>
>Quite. Guy surprises me.
>
>> > So they appear to work for you on a small range of routes.
>> > Good. But you would reject such reasoning elsewhere.
>
>> This proves that "trains are always ****" is false, though.
>
>Has anyone said that?

Yes. Mark South started it off with :

"Travelling by train in the UK is almost always inconvenient, and with
a bike it is a dead certainty that it will be inconvenient."

>This was about experiences of taking bikes on trains.
>IME there are difficulties more often than not.

As you can see, it was not purely about bikes on trains.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Terry]

> I was infact allowed on the train, and nobody ever checked to see if I
> held a cycle reservation (which in the end I didn't).

I have several similar experiences always with a similar ending, but
it does cause anxiety and puts one right off the idea of planning such
a trip.
As a student and in the early eighties I had no idea about the rules
and never thought to ask because I just turned up , wheeled the bike
onto the guards van and sat down.No-one ever quibbled at all, except
one passenger on a little one from London to Chelmsford who said he
thought they weren't allowed.I said plaintively 'but then how would I
get to Chelmsford' to which the correct response would be ' I couldn't
care less' but actually I was ussured on board.

Now I use a cheap folder.Last year Glastonbury I got to Derby station
, told the clerk the price I intended to pay for my ticket acc to
Trainline (he wanted more initially)got on the train waiting in the
station, found it went straight to Weston-super-mare , the guard
extended my ticket for free with a smile, I got off and cycled over to
Street through the levels with the wind behind me and some really good
cider inside.
This is much more typical of my rail experiences.
TerryJ

 

[[Not Responding]]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:49:02 +0100, TP <[email protected]> wrote:

>Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>If the cost of not providing that capacity is to alienate 5,000
>>potential repeat customers, then a hundred thousand pounds outlay
>>begins to look like very small beer. It is, after all, highly probable
>>that the people who took part in the L2B this year between them spend
>>ten million pounds or more per year on commuting.
>
>
>Alienating 5,000 commuters or potential commuters is something the
>railways do every day of the week, many times over.
>
>People don't commute by choice, they do it because they have to....

No, they choose to. I could spent 1 and half hours each way on a train
between here and W'loo, if I chose to. I don't because, depsite any
pay increase, I still prefer to live 15 minute ride from work.

 

[Mark South]

"Gawnsoft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:39:08 +0100, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote
> (more or less):
>
> >"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
> >>
> >> Mark South wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is the trains equivalent of a single "helmet saved my skull"
> >> > anecdote.
> >
> >Quite. Guy surprises me.
> >
> >> > So they appear to work for you on a small range of routes.
> >> > Good. But you would reject such reasoning elsewhere.
> >
> >> This proves that "trains are always ****" is false, though.
> >
> >Has anyone said that?
>
> Yes. Mark South started it off with :

To be accurate, I did not start it. My line quoted below was preceded by
"ITYM".

> "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always inconvenient, and with
> a bike it is a dead certainty that it will be inconvenient."
>
> >This was about experiences of taking bikes on trains.
> >IME there are difficulties more often than not.
>
> As you can see, it was not purely about bikes on trains.

Clearly we are coming to arguing about what it means to describe something as
"inconvenient".

I mean it as "not as convenient as it could be in a reasonable world", and
evaluate it based on my overall experience of rail travel in all parts of
Britain over the last couple of decades.

Guy is adopting the opposite extreme of saying "recently, for me, on my local
regular runs, it hasn't been any worse than I can cope with". So for him, at
least, there is no perceptible inconvenience.

And then all of you who take me to task about describing it as inconvenient tell
stories about bookings required for bikes but bookings cannot be made, limited
space on trains for bikes, no seats for people with reservations etc etc etc.

All I can say is I'm bloody glad that I don't have either a car or the need to
travel on British trains anymore.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

 

[JohnB]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
>
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> > It may not be the case that all the trains are always ****. GNER
> > certainly seems to be better, and ScotRail run a halfway decent
> > sleeper service. But it is true that the system as a whole is
> > overcomplex, chaotic and badly run, and that Virgin are the absolute
> > and irredeemable pits.
>
> And FGW are the closest to a Good Railway we have in the UK, AFAICT. But
> your comment re Virgin is at odds with my experience. You can even get
> decent coffee on the Voyagers.

As you are such a fan of Virgin's service and they even run direct from
Reading to York, will you be using them to go to the York Rally?

John B

 

[JohnB]

peter wrote:
>
> JohnB <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Then, if you are lucky, the space isn't full of luggage, train rubbish
> > or at peak times sardines in suits.
>
> Speaking as one of the 'sardines in suits', if you try to take your
> bike on a peak time SWT train into or out of Waterloo you deserve all
> the inconvenience you get.

The train this morning I travelled on was due to arrive in London at
1102, and it still had a suit in the bike space 70 miles out from the capital.
And that's hardly peak time.
If a passenger with a legitimately reserved bike had boarded there would
have been problems.
Luckily I was not on the train for the full journey and I had my Brommie.

John B

 

[JohnB]

Tony Raven wrote:

> As for Virgin, my pre-Hatfield experience was extremely good but post Hatfield
> they are the pits. Mind you, the way the media report the railways, would you
> want to work for them?

I wouldn't mind the free travel.

John B

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:23:50 +0100, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote in
message <[email protected]>:

>As you are such a fan of Virgin's service and they even run direct from
>Reading to York, will you be using them to go to the York Rally?

Nope. I haven't worked out a way for one man to transport three bikes
and a large tent on the train. Next year I might, but it depends if
we're still using the triplet by then.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[JohnB]

Tony Raven wrote:
>
> peter wrote:
> >
> > Speaking as one of the 'sardines in suits', if you try to take your
> > bike on a peak time SWT train into or out of Waterloo you deserve all
> > the inconvenience you get.
>
> Is this a good time to mention Bromptons?

Even they are not immune to SWT jobsworths.

I have been challenged at Waterloo by a guard who demanded to see my
reservation when I was crunched into a vestbule with half a dozen others
including one person with a large pushchair and several with rucsacs.
When i said one wasn't needed she retorted that it should to be in the
bike area as it was a "safety hazard".
Of course nothing was said about all those standing, or the pushchair,
or the rucksacs on the floor...

John B

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:49:02 +0100, TP <[email protected]> wrote in
message <[email protected]>:

>People don't commute by choice, they do it because they have to. No
>amount of marketing is going to make any difference.

Really? So when I changed my job so I wasn't commuting 125 miles
round trip that was because I had to? and my choice to work in Didcot
instead of London is because I have to?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[JohnB]

Bryan wrote:
>
> Just Zis Guy wrote:

> > And FGW are the closest to a Good Railway we have in the UK, AFAICT. But
> > your comment re Virgin is at odds with my experience. You can even get
> > decent coffee on the Voyagers.

> Yebbut, what you can't get on a Voyger is all the passengers and their
> luggage going from London To Birmingham for Christmas (in my experience
> anyway)

I saw that Virgin were saying they were running lorries to transport
passengers' luggage on some routes.

Truly pathetic.

John B

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In news:[email protected],
Ian G Batten <[email protected]> typed:
> Seeing this is cross-posted from u.r.c into one of my favourite
> stamping grounds, I need to be careful to maintain my reputation for
> curmudgeonly criticism of the railways. However, since I started
> cycling to work once or twice a week last autumn, my regular pattern
> has been to cycle all the way in, then go back using the
> International--New St run. Which I have to use the stoppers for,
> because of having a non-folding bike with me. For some reason
> there's never a Silverlink when you want one.

Why not just wheel the bike up to the ticket office (OK, that's a climb up
steps, but...) and ask them for a bike reservation on the next Virgin train?
They don't cost anything nowadays, and it'll get the clerks in practice for
when other people turn up, and it should save you time. Depends when the
next Centro train's in, though, I guess.

A

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

In news:[email protected],
David Nutter <[email protected]> typed:
>> And FGW are the closest to a Good Railway we have in the UK, AFAICT.
>> But your comment re Virgin is at odds with my experience. You can
>> even get decent coffee on the Voyagers.

Much better than in the stations, in my experience. You have to tell them
how to make an Americano, though.

>
> Voyagers are dreadful creations. No luggage space in the carriages,
> doors that bite you if you stray too close, noisy diesel engines
> under the carriage floor, an omnipresent smell of drains and the
> stench of burning brake shoe every time the rattletrap monstrosity
> stops.

The bog doors do open too wide, letting out smells, and the (internal) doors
can close on you if you're standing in them, but it's rare in my experience
that the luggage space is completely full. The engines are a bit noisy on
starting, but they're quiet in general travel. Not noticed brake smells,
unlike HSTs.

OTOH, the seats are somewhat small. It's advisable to avoid the ones at the
end of the coach labelled with (Disabled) Priority Seat, so that it's empty
when I want to use it.

> Also, I'm not sure what kind of bikes they intend to fit in
> the "baggage" car; a BMX might fit easily, but my tourer took 20
> minutes or so to hang up and secure.

It's a bit tricky, but once you've done it a few times, it's not too bad.

> OTOH, the Virgin staff are better than those usually found on the
> Transpennine Distress or Central.

Very friendly in general.

A