oh oh , did Horner just call out USPS/Disco for doping?

  • Thread starter John Forrest Tomlinson
  • Start date



On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>
> R

My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.
Bill C
 
Geraard Spergen wrote:
> He may eventually regret saying this, but it seems he was pretty careful
> not to mention Discovery/USPS by name so I don't think there's any libel
> case to pursue.

That's what I thought as well. After all there were other
teams who often had a fair number of riders in contention
on the last climb. The team in pink comes to mind, that is
when they weren't attacking each other.
 
On Aug 17, 3:07 pm, Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:

> My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> I'd love to hear that discussion.
> Bill C


BAAHAHA. Not quite as good as explaining fixed gear riding to Shaun
Wallace, but you're getting closer.
 
RicodJour wrote:
>> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
>> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
>> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

Bill C. wrote:
> My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> I'd love to hear that discussion.

Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?

As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team. It
seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within the
next year or two. IMHO.
 
RicodJour wrote:
>> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
>> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
>> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

Bill C. wrote:
> My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> I'd love to hear that discussion.

Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?

As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team. It
seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within the
next year or two. IMHO.
 
Bill C wrote:
> On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
>> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
>> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>>
>> R
>
> My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> I'd love to hear that discussion.

Pay attention.
http://groups.google.com/group/Tida...d0ac2?lnk=st&q=Andreu&rnum=9#7e4b8023f49d0ac2
 
On Aug 17, 6:26 pm, Stu Fleming <[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
> >> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
> >> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>
> >> R
>
> > My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> > leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> > I'd love to hear that discussion.
>
> Pay attention.http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/878255...

Reads like Zabel's "confession" and obviously Chris had something more
systematic than that in mind. Yes I did forget that, not the first or
last brain fart by any stretch of the imagination. I'm lucky that I
can remember my own damn birthday without looking at the calendar most
days.
Thanks for reminding me of that.
Bill C
 
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:51:55 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.

Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
>>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>
> Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
> someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
> the top 5 in spring classics. Right?

Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed once
again.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:51:55 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>
> Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
> someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
> the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
 
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:11:24 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>>>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>>
>> Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
>> someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
>> the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>
>Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
>universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed once
>again.

I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact -- they've won a bunch
of different races.

Did you say they won the Vuelta and the Giro and were trashed for
saying it? I wouldn't put up with that - if what you said was true
then defend it.


--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote:

> RicodJour wrote:
> >> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
> >> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
> >> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>
> Bill C. wrote:
> > My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
> > leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
> > I'd love to hear that discussion.
>
> Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?
>
> As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
> have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team. It
> seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within the
> next year or two. IMHO.

What is the point: telling tales out of school? I have
never had the least interest in blackguarding folks I
did work for, except that one guy we replaced a rotted
out cast iron sanitary drain while the tenants
continued to flush and balked at paying us the agreed
monies when we finished in one morning, cleaned up and
were on time for lunch. I do my job and know it; let
them know that I think so. Best to leave it at that.

--
Michael Press
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
> >>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
> >
> > Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
> > someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
> > the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>
> Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
> universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed once
> again.

Always best to stick to your story.
You will get trashed but you have more time to shore it up.

> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:eek:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:51:55 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
> >>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
> >
> > Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
> > someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
> > the top 5 in spring classics. Right?

--
Michael Press
 
> Always best to stick to your story.
> You will get trashed but you have more time to shore it up.

Word.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>> >>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>> >
>> > Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
>> > someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
>> > the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>>
>> Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
>> universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed
>> once
>> again.
>
> Always best to stick to your story.
> You will get trashed but you have more time to shore it up.
>
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:eek:[email protected]...
>> > On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:51:55 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>> >>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>> >
>> > Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
>> > someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
>> > the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>
> --
> Michael Press
 
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:18:08 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:11:24 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>>>>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
>>> someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
>>> the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>>
>>Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
>>universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed once
>>again.
>
>I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact -- they've won a bunch
>of different races.

Eddie Merckx won 5 tours in his career. In that time he also won 500 other
races. You cannot say that of the entire USPS / Disco team combined.

Ron
 
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:14:07 -0400, RonSonic
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:18:08 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:11:24 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Chris failed to acknowledge that Disco was also recognized as a
>>>>>one-trick-pony team, focusing almost entirely on the Tour de France.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's not like that team (USPS/Disco) ever won the Vuelta or got
>>>> someone on the podium, or ever won the Giro, or ever placed anyone in
>>>> the top 5 in spring classics. Right?
>>>
>>>Right. You're making the arguments I made back then and got pretty
>>>universally trashed for. So now I take the other side and get trashed once
>>>again.
>>
>>I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact -- they've won a bunch
>>of different races.
>
>Eddie Merckx won 5 tours in his career. In that time he also won 500 other
>races. You cannot say that of the entire USPS / Disco team combined.

Eddie Merck didn't win the 2004 Tour of France and wasn't able to even
start any classics that year.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RicodJour wrote:
>>> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
>>> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
>>> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>
> Bill C. wrote:
>> My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
>> leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
>> I'd love to hear that discussion.
>
> Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?

Citations please. Sounds to me like you're implying that he called Postal a
doping team.

> As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
> have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team.
> It seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within
> the next year or two. IMHO.

My guess is that it's a great deal more likely that you'll be assassinated.
 
"Bill C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 17, 6:26 pm, Stu Fleming <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>> > On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
>> >> Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
>> >> place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.
>>
>> >> R
>>
>> > My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
>> > leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
>> > I'd love to hear that discussion.
>>
>> Pay
>> attention.http://groups.google.com/group/Tidalforce/browse_thread/thread/878255...
>
> Reads like Zabel's "confession" and obviously Chris had something more
> systematic than that in mind. Yes I did forget that, not the first or
> last brain fart by any stretch of the imagination. I'm lucky that I
> can remember my own damn birthday without looking at the calendar most
> days.
> Thanks for reminding me of that.

Consider this - why would Lance say something like that in front of
witnesses? Does Lance seem to you to be stupid?
 
On Aug 16, 1:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07
>
> "You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily
> perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. ...
> It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and
> get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front --
> and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."
> --
> JT

Chris has a valid point -- the performances do make you wonder.
Consider the 2004 TdF, Stage 4, the team time trial. The Blue Train
demolished the competition that day. A remarkable performance by all
five riders. They came in over a minute ahead of... Phonak.
 
On Aug 19, 6:41 pm, wimpyVO2 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 16, 1:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/interviews/?id=chris_horner_aug07
>
> > "You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily
> > perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. ...
> > It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and
> > get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front --
> > and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."
> > --
> > JT
>
> Chris has a valid point -- the performances do make you wonder.
> Consider the 2004 TdF, Stage 4, the team time trial. The Blue Train
> demolished the competition that day. A remarkable performance by all
> five riders. They came in over a minute ahead of... Phonak.

So we're back to everyone who has a good performance is suspect and
should be banned until they can conclusively prove a negative?
This whole thing is ridiculous at this point and they need to shut the
sport down, bacause by the current definition and procedures, every
podium is suspect for doping and therefore should be suspended.
Bill C
 
On Aug 19, 6:41 pm, wimpyVO2 <[email protected]> wrote:
....
> Chris has a valid point -- the performances do make you wonder.
> Consider the 2004 TdF, Stage 4, the team time trial. The Blue Train
> demolished the competition that day. A remarkable performance by all
> five riders. They came in over a minute ahead of... Phonak.

You mean the very rainy time trial where Phonak had multiple crashes
and punctures, with the team waiting around for guys to get back on,
while Postal had no crashes or punctures, if I recall correctly?
 
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