Re: Too young to be a retrogrouch?

[Terry Morse]

Bill Baka wrote:

> Terry Morse wrote:
>
> > You may be feeling good at 12k, but your aerobic performance is
> > limited. My power output at 12k feet is reduced by about 20% from
> > sea level.
>
> So you are saying that the extra 2,000 feet is a big deal?

The extra 2000' from 12k to 14k? That's what I've heard. The highest
I've ridden to is about 12,500', and that was fine. Some say you hit
a wall around 13 or 13.5k. The only way to know is to try it, I
guess.

> I do have a plan for this summer to ride up past Grass Valley and
> Nevada City at 2,500' and go up highway 20 to meet interstate 80
> at about 6,000 feet. The return is downhill but it will be about a
> century and a half if my math is correct.

We were going to do a similar route last year. Starting in Nevada
City, ride highway 20 and Donner Pass Rd. to Truckee. Then north on
89 and back down 49 to Nevada City. But after scoping out the route,
we decided against it. Logistically it was difficult, and the roads
are not that special. Alpine County is much nicer for riding. The
roads are quieter, the climbs are longer, and the annoying flat
parts are short.

And speaking of climbing, for those who are interested in my
vertical total for the year:

1,181,078 feet as or 12/17/04

I'm almost certain that's not a record. We'll see what Bicycling
publishes.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> And speaking of climbing, for those who are interested in my
> vertical total for the year:
>
> 1,181,078 feet as or 12/17/04
>

That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
with a 23 or larger cog.

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:03:36 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<Yh_wd.517990$Pl.439548@pd7tw1no>:

>That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
>with a 23 or larger cog.

Cog? *cog?* It's a SPROCKET, man!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:03:36 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<Yh_wd.517990$Pl.439548@pd7tw1no>:

>That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
>with a 23 or larger cog.

Cog? *cog?* It's a SPROCKET, man!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:03:36 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> <Yh_wd.517990$Pl.439548@pd7tw1no>:
>
> >That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
> >with a 23 or larger cog.
>
> Cog? *cog?* It's a SPROCKET, man!
>
Look Guy, English is a second language to me, I didn't
use my Italian to 'the colonies' translation book when
I wrote that post.

 

[Terry Morse]

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:

> "Terry Morse" wrote:
>
> > And speaking of climbing, for those who are interested in my
> > vertical total for the year:
> >
> > 1,181,078 feet as or 12/17/04
> >
>
> That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
> with a 23 or larger cog.

Darn, that puts me close to zero. My favorite climbing gears are
42/24 or 42/27.

I do get some comments about my "pie plate" (12-27) cassette from
riders as I pass them on the climbs, though. Oh well.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Bill Baka]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:18:58 -0800, Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bill Baka wrote:
>
>> Terry Morse wrote:
>>
>> > You may be feeling good at 12k, but your aerobic performance is
>> > limited. My power output at 12k feet is reduced by about 20% from
>> > sea level.

Only 20%? It seems like it would be more unless you are another
person with excess lung capacity.
>>
>> So you are saying that the extra 2,000 feet is a big deal?
>
> The extra 2000' from 12k to 14k? That's what I've heard. The highest
> I've ridden to is about 12,500', and that was fine. Some say you hit
> a wall around 13 or 13.5k. The only way to know is to try it, I
> guess.

Some day (year?) when I get the chance I will have to try to verify
that. Isn't there a formula for air pressure and altitude? The main
thing I would want to calculate is the partial pressure of the O2.
>
>> I do have a plan for this summer to ride up past Grass Valley and
>> Nevada City at 2,500' and go up highway 20 to meet interstate 80
>> at about 6,000 feet. The return is downhill but it will be about a
>> century and a half if my math is correct.
>
> We were going to do a similar route last year. Starting in Nevada
> City, ride highway 20 and Donner Pass Rd. to Truckee. Then north on
> 89 and back down 49 to Nevada City. But after scoping out the route,
> we decided against it. Logistically it was difficult, and the roads
> are not that special. Alpine County is much nicer for riding. The
> roads are quieter, the climbs are longer, and the annoying flat
> parts are short.

I thought that 20 did a dead end into highway 80 and that is freeway,
no bike territory. Did I miss something or did some road work get
done up there? It has been about 15 years since I took 20 all the
way to 80. If I could keep going to Truckee that would make for
a very good day. As far as 49 goes, I don't like it in a car, so
I don't think I would want to do it on a bike. I used to work
for GVG, once in 1978 and again in 1998, one time by the airport
where the F-104 hulk is at, and once at the Nevada City facility.
There were plenty of places to walk at lunch time but I never
took a bike to work. Kind of nice to come out at 5 something
and find deer grazing in front of my car or snow coming down.
Valley weather is just too predictable.
New plan, bike up 20 to the turn off to Rough and Ready, then
take the old road up to Grass Valley and spend most of the day
exploring.
Sounds like a plan to me, maybe a Christmas time ride after all
the festivities. If I get lucky maybe I can catch some snow, on
my face up there, December 26-30 maybe.
>
> And speaking of climbing, for those who are interested in my
> vertical total for the year:
>
> 1,181,078 feet as or 12/17/04
>
> I'm almost certain that's not a record. We'll see what Bicycling
> publishes.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Good luck with the climbing. I remember just going to HP was up a
hill so you have a great location.

--
Bill (?) Ba__ka

 

[Bill Baka]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:48:44 -0800, Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:

> Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
>
>> "Terry Morse" wrote:
>>
>> > And speaking of climbing, for those who are interested in my
>> > vertical total for the year:
>> >
>> > 1,181,078 feet as or 12/17/04
>> >
>>
>> That's your gross total, now subtract any miles that were ridden
>> with a 23 or larger cog.
>
> Darn, that puts me close to zero. My favorite climbing gears are
> 42/24 or 42/27.
>
> I do get some comments about my "pie plate" (12-27) cassette from
> riders as I pass them on the climbs, though. Oh well.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

My "pie plate" is bigger than yours. My Huffy is mounted with an
old Suntour Alpine gear that spans 14-39. Now that is a plate.
The largest I have seen on other bikes appear to be the mega-range
Shimanos that go from 11-34. Only regret on the Huffy is that the
Suntour gear doesn't have an 11-39 spread.
My front chainring is a fairly normal 48 tooth but I tried a 58
tooth that I got from Ebay and the 58/14 wasn't too terrible
but the derailluers couldn't handle that much spread. The front
one choked on the 26/40/58 and the rear ran out of range if I
got near a cross chain situation from not paying attention.
Something different every time I get a wrench (spanner) in my hands.

--
Bill (?) Ba__ka

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
> My "pie plate" is bigger than yours. My Huffy is mounted with an
> old Suntour Alpine gear that spans 14-39. Now that is a plate.
> The largest I have seen on other bikes appear to be the mega-range
> Shimanos that go from 11-34. Only regret on the Huffy is that the
> Suntour gear doesn't have an 11-39 spread.


Bill, here's a lesson in road riding.

Chainrings are to be 53x39 and on the rear 11to 21.
That's what we use.

We can see what you're running on the bike and we will
make a very quick judgement on you.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <i79xd.539179$nl.279111@pd7tw3no>,
"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> writes:

> We can see what you're running on the bike and we will
> make a very quick judgement on you.

And maybe when your barista stalls your ristretto pulls,
it's on purpose.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[Terry Morse]

Bill Baka wrote:

> Terry Morse wrote:
>
> >> > You may be feeling good at 12k, but your aerobic performance is
> >> > limited. My power output at 12k feet is reduced by about 20% from
> >> > sea level.
>
> Only 20%? It seems like it would be more unless you are another
> person with excess lung capacity.

20% is what I measured. Maybe I was having a good day. I based it on
climb rate instead of actual power, since I don't have a power meter.

> > The extra 2000' from 12k to 14k? That's what I've heard. The highest
> > I've ridden to is about 12,500', and that was fine. Some say you hit
> > a wall around 13 or 13.5k. The only way to know is to try it, I
> > guess.
>
> Some day (year?) when I get the chance I will have to try to verify
> that. Isn't there a formula for air pressure and altitude? The main
> thing I would want to calculate is the partial pressure of the O2.

Here's a handy standard atmosphere calculator:

http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/

At 12k the pressure is 64% of sea level's, at 14k 59%. Partial
pressure of O2 in the atmmosphere varies with the total pressure, so
there's no need to calculate it separately.

> I thought that 20 did a dead end into highway 80 and that is freeway,
> no bike territory. Did I miss something or did some road work get
> done up there?

Yes, 20 ends up on I-80, where you have to ride on the shoulder
until the Cisco exit. It's a very short distance on the freeway. The
ride from Nevada City to Truckee and back would be a nice one.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Bill Baka]

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:23:10 GMT, Fabrizio Mazzoleni <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> My "pie plate" is bigger than yours. My Huffy is mounted with an
>> old Suntour Alpine gear that spans 14-39. Now that is a plate.
>> The largest I have seen on other bikes appear to be the mega-range
>> Shimanos that go from 11-34. Only regret on the Huffy is that the
>> Suntour gear doesn't have an 11-39 spread.
>
>
> Bill, here's a lesson in road riding.
>
> Chainrings are to be 53x39 and on the rear 11to 21.
> That's what we use.
>
> We can see what you're running on the bike and we will
> make a very quick judgement on you.
>
>
>
Fabs,
My fronts are 52x39 (got rid of the bio-pace) and the rear is 14 to about
22 in only 5 speeds.
That is the only change I have made, getting rid of those silly bio-pace
rings. The 52/14 is not high enough but it is only a 5 speed and I would
like to get an 11-21 maybe on the back.
It is after all a 1980s classic (sort of), Schwinn Super Sport (SS). I can
get it to hauling ass on the 52/14 but run out of cadence so I don't know
that the gearing is stock. A 52/11 seems much more reasonable for this
bike so someone may have messed with it. The tires are at least 700 x 25
(23?), kind of sun burned so new tires are coming. Other than the UV
damage from the sun there is very little rust on this jewel and I should
have it fully reconditioned in time for the summer season. I just need
more water bottle mounts, and spare tires, and pump, and tools. I can get
3 water bottles on, one very unconventional, a pump, a seat back back, a
***** pack, and a full blown back pack, totally non-aero but carries all
the things I might need since I ride well out of cell phone range and
traffic. I ride some roads that may see 3 cars a day, on the weekend.


--
Bill (?) Ba__ka

 

[Terry Morse]

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:

> Chainrings are to be 53x39 and on the rear 11to 21.
> That's what we use.
>
> We can see what you're running on the bike and we will
> make a very quick judgement on you.

What if I tell you I just got back from doing hill repeats on the
Mortirolo, and the mechanic forgot to swap out my climbing wheels?

http://www.mortirolo.net/profilo Mortirolo.jpg

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Bill Baka]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:39:01 -0800, Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bill Baka wrote:
>
>> Terry Morse wrote:
>>
>> >> > You may be feeling good at 12k, but your aerobic performance is
>> >> > limited. My power output at 12k feet is reduced by about 20% from
>> >> > sea level.
>>
>> Only 20%? It seems like it would be more unless you are another
>> person with excess lung capacity.
>
> 20% is what I measured. Maybe I was having a good day. I based it on
> climb rate instead of actual power, since I don't have a power meter.
>
>> > The extra 2000' from 12k to 14k? That's what I've heard. The highest
>> > I've ridden to is about 12,500', and that was fine. Some say you hit
>> > a wall around 13 or 13.5k. The only way to know is to try it, I
>> > guess.
>>
>> Some day (year?) when I get the chance I will have to try to verify
>> that. Isn't there a formula for air pressure and altitude? The main
>> thing I would want to calculate is the partial pressure of the O2.
>
> Here's a handy standard atmosphere calculator:
>
> http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/

Cool tool. I bookmarked it. Too lazy to write my own. I would
probably spend too much time writing it in C anyway.
>
> At 12k the pressure is 64% of sea level's, at 14k 59%. Partial
> pressure of O2 in the atmmosphere varies with the total pressure, so
> there's no need to calculate it separately.
>
>> I thought that 20 did a dead end into highway 80 and that is freeway,
>> no bike territory. Did I miss something or did some road work get
>> done up there?
>
> Yes, 20 ends up on I-80, where you have to ride on the shoulder
> until the Cisco exit. It's a very short distance on the freeway. The
> ride from Nevada City to Truckee and back would be a nice one.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Thanks Terry.

--
Bill (?) Ba__ka

 

[Alex Colvin]

>Cog? *cog?* It's a SPROCKET, man!

Cogswell cogs vs Spacely sprockets.

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..
..
>> What if I tell you I just got back from doing hill repeats on the
> Mortirolo, and the mechanic forgot to swap out my climbing wheels?

I would say get rid of him, you can't have someone that you don't trust.
What would happen if that was the Milano-Torino instead of a training
ride?

Get rid of him now, it's getting close to the 05 season, I assume the
Giro della Liguria is your first big test as I haven't seen you post
anything about riding the Tour de Langkawi or Jacob's Creek Tour
Down Under.

If you want I can call Giuseppe Saronni who is the general manger
over at team Lamper-Caffita and see if Bisogno Andrea and Maurizio
Piovani still want to wrench on a different team.

Or you can contact Saronni yourself:

Bici Club Azzurro s.r.l.
Via A. Magni, 5
20040 Usmate (MI) - Italy
Tel +39 - 039.688.91.53
Fax +39 - 039.688.90.86

 

[RonSonic]

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:23:10 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
>> My "pie plate" is bigger than yours. My Huffy is mounted with an
>> old Suntour Alpine gear that spans 14-39. Now that is a plate.
>> The largest I have seen on other bikes appear to be the mega-range
>> Shimanos that go from 11-34. Only regret on the Huffy is that the
>> Suntour gear doesn't have an 11-39 spread.
>
>
>Bill, here's a lesson in road riding.
>
>Chainrings are to be 53x39 and on the rear 11to 21.
>That's what we use.

Lance uses a 23.

>We can see what you're running on the bike and we will
>make a very quick judgement on you.

I use a 53x42 up front and 13-23 in back. You will make a very quick judgment:
I'm old and so's the bike. You won't need to look at my gears to know that.
You'll tell by the gray hair on the back of my head as I ride away from you.

Ron

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Lance uses a 23.
>
And Lance is always spinning to quick, he really must
start lunging the big gears just like Jan Ullrich.

 

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:C_rxd.550166$%k.47955@pd7tw2no...
>> >
> And Lance is always spinning to quick, he really must
> start lunging the big gears just like Jan Ullrich.
>
>
Ok, I know one of you english speakers is going to
point out that it should have been 'too'.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
> "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:C_rxd.550166$%k.47955@pd7tw2no...
>>>>
>> And Lance is always spinning to quick, he really must
>> start lunging the big gears just like Jan Ullrich.
>>
>>
> Ok, I know one of you english speakers is going to
> point out that it should have been 'too'.

That was the least of your glaring errors.

Bill "12-25 (and shutting up re. the chainrings)" S.