Veterans Only Reply To Rude Drivers

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ... But I do think it is scandalous that we can not provide health care in this country the
> equivalent of what every other advanced industrialized nation is providing it's citizens. This is
> going to become the biggest issue facing the country eventually. The American people are going to
> insist on affordable health care. It has to be made an entitlement and a universal single payer
> system is the only way to go. The conservatives are out to lunch on this issue, but it is going to
> come back to bite them big time. The Dems will someday be able to win elections on this issue
> alone. I wish conservatives could wake up and get real on this issue.

Speaking of waking up, it is time to realize that the hard right Republicans are not conservatives
at all. Everything they do is driven by a single ideological point - what can be done to enable the
already rich and powerful help themselves to an even greater share of the world's wealth and power.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"There is enough in the world for everyone's need; there is not enough for everyone's greed." -
Mohandas Gandhi

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ... The private sector has proven over and over that they can not handle the situation. Government
> is the only solution.

Grover Norquist is classifying you as a heretic.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Skip]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.
>
> The saddest thing about Skip (who?) is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his
> unwavering belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.
>
> In particular his belief that any inheritance tax, even on fortunes of billions of dollars, is
> evil and that all who would impose such a tax should be wiped from the planet.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> "There is enough in the world for everyone's need; there is not enough for everyone's greed." -
> Mohandas Gandhi

You know after reading this I have reconsidered my stance on taxing the dead. Now I'm thinking maybe
I could live with a billion dollar exemption. After all I am a good guy and certainly would rather
not be personally involved with the messy business wiping all you tax imposers from the planet.

$kip

 

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> escreveu na mensagem news:[email protected]...
>
...........
> Passive resistance works well when the oppressor has a sense of moral decency and fair play, such
> as the British had during the occupation of India. It would not work in the situation where the
> leadership of the oppressors believe or claims to believe that what they are doing is morally
> right, e.g. ****** and Stalin had stated ideologies that allowed them to be mass murderers without
> violating their "moral" framework. Using violence against peaceful Indians violated the stated
> moral framework of the British.
............

You've forgot George W. Bush... He also think that what he is doing is "morally acceptable"...

[]'s Eduardo
--

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[Tom Sherman]

Eduardo L P Jr wrote:
> ... You've forgot George W. Bush...

I wish.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"There is enough in the world for everyone's need; there is not enough for everyone's greed." -
Mohandas Gandhi

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ... There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is
> no one who listens to Baroque church music. Music began with Haydn essentially. All music prior to
> him was essentially European music fostered and supported by the Church. Even Handel and Bach can
> be terrible bores. They were way too intoxicated with God and religion to suit me.

Mr. Dolan,

If you want to here something funny from a "terrible bore", listen carefully to the double bass in
the first statement of the Credo in Bach's B-Minor Mass. [1]

Interesting enough, Handel considered himself to be a Christian, but refused to accept the Old
Testament, as he considered the portrayals of God to be contradictory from the Old to the New.

Haydn was an early labor activist, as evidenced by Symphony No. 45.

I would argue that church music declined after the middle Baroque, as other outlets for composers
became available. While there are many Renaissance and Baroque composers whose entire liturgical
output I would be willing to listen to - the same act with many later composers is barred by the 8th
Amendment to the US Constitution, the Hague and Geneva Conventions, and the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights.

[1] Record store customer - "Do you have any good recordings of the minor masses of Bach?" Record
store clerk - "I have one here in B." - Unknown

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> [...]
>
> > Alfred Einstein wrote much about music, but I am not aware of him ever composing anything of
> > significance - this is the first time he has been compared to Beethoven as far as I know.
>
> Well, everyone has forever been confusing Alfred with Albert. Alfred was a great music critic of
> course, and Albert was the great physicist. I well know the difference between the two, but as
> always I am like a bull and when someone waves the red flag in front of me I immediately go for
> the jugular. Skip would never have made my mistake, as he contemplates what he reads before he
> reacts. But not I. I know in a flash what to say to anything even before I am done reading the
> message. I can see that I will have to slow down some when I am reading you.

This was not even a trap, since I assumed that Mr. Dolan would be one of the few people who would
know who Alfred Einstein was. However, Mr. Dolan should have assumed that I would be deliberately be
contentious and state he was referring to Alfred Einstein, when the content of his post indicated
that he was referring to Albert Einstein.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Skip]

"trembler50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Skip,
>
> You are quite right that my post could be interpreted either way, but note that:-
>
>1. I have not rubbished you for a less than perfect modification to my
> original post ("but except for Islam") as Ed would have done.

You must be British trembler50. I love British expressions such as "I have not rubbished you for a
less than perfect modification to my original post............."

>
> 2. Subsequent to 1., I have not now relegated you to the rank of "complete moron for whom I have
> no respect".

Oh go ahead - after all this is Usenet and everybody else does it.

>
> 3. While Tom Sherman has disagreed with almost everything Ed has posted, I for one, have not
> observed the sheer hatered and lack of respect that Ed generated.

Actually Ed is just a ***** cat kind of guy underneath all the bluster. Tom Sherman, on the other
hand, is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Apparently you haven't seen him in that silly sheep suit he
wears around.

>
> Condescension Lack of respect Inability to perceive an opposing point of view Hatred

I'm gonna have to get back to you on this one.

>
> Ed is entitlled to have these qualities, but to try to foist these as the norm on the whole world
> to the exclsuion of all others, is very very scary.

Other liberal posters to a.r.b.r. also find Ed very very scary. Sometimes I imagine them posting
from underneath their desks.

>
> Almost, but not quite appropriately, I heard someone on the radio mention a quote attributed to
> Ghandi :-
>
> "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, leaves us with a world full of blind toothless
> people".
>
>
From what I can tell the world appears to be full of people with teeth and eyes so maybe we're
making some progress here.

skip

 

[Tom Sherman]

skip (who?) wrote:
> ... Actually Ed is just a ***** cat kind of guy underneath all the bluster. Tom Sherman, on the
> other hand, is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Apparently you haven't seen him in that silly sheep
> suit he wears around....

Baaaaaaah!

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Skip]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:
>
> > >> > By and large, it is undeniable that the US has the best health care facilities in the world
> > >> > bar none,
> >
> > I disagree. The US has the MOST EXPENSIVE health care in the world bar none, but it produces
> > pitiful near-third-world results.
> >
> > See e.g. http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf, which quotes a
bunch
> > of figures from the WHO and other sources.
> >
> > * The US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in
the
> > world. In 1998 it was $4178 in the US vs. $2794 for the next-highest- spending country,
> > Switzerland.
> >
> > * The US is the only country in the developed world, other than South Africa, that does not
> > provide health care to all its citizens. As of
1998
> > roughly 42.6 MILLION people in this country were uninsured.
> >
> > * The US has by far the highest infant mortality rate of the 14
countries
> > listed in this study -- including the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, and
10
> > European countries. The US ranked 26th among industrialized nations in infant mortality rates.
> >
> > * The US ranks 24th in Disability-Adjusted Life Expectancy.
> >
> > Health care costs the people of this country a fortune, and it's skyrocketing at a staggering
> > pace. We're getting socked for an
incredibly
> > expensive product, and we're getting a piece of junk.
> >
> > Gary
>
>
> Gary, I couldn't agree with you more! I am going to use your information here that you furnished
> in your very excellent post as ammunition for all the dunderheads in this country who think that
> health care is a privilege and that you should only get it if you can afford to pay for it. We
> here in southern Minnesota can access the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota and get just about
> the best care in the world. To go through the Clinic there is to be mightily impressed. And they
> try to charge you what you can afford to pay. But still, you have to be able to pay.
>
> But I do think it is scandalous that we can not provide health care in this country the equivalent
> of what every other advanced industrialized nation is providing it's citizens. This is going to
> become the biggest issue facing the country eventually. The American people are going to insist on
> affordable health care. It has to be made an entitlement and a universal single payer system is
> the only way to go. The conservatives are out to lunch on this issue, but it is going to come back
> to bite them big time. The Dems will someday be able to win elections on this issue alone. I wish
> conservatives could wake up and get real on this issue.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Gov. Dean wants to get out of Iraq and use the $87,000,000,000.00 we would spend there to fund
universal health care. Would you go this far to get universal health care Ed?

skip

 

[trembler50]

To Ed Dolan,

Re your last comments, I appreciate that you and I will just have to get used to the fact that we disagree with each other but...

1. While you may think you are stating your point of view, e.g. Christianity better than Islam, which is fine as a point of view, the way you have expressed it comes accross as hatred. This may also help you understand why the rest of the world possibly (just possibly mind) perceives America as an agressive warmonger and not the defender of truth, freedom, liberty, democracy etc.

2. I have forgotten what 2. was now.

3. Oh yes, your unyielding style does not make debating with you much fun, it's more like banging ones head against a brick wall, better when you stop.

4. You used to be a librarian, that explains a lot. My mental picture is building up nicely now.

5. Health care for all? Are you going soft in your old age Ed?

 

[trembler50]

Originally posted by Skip
"trembler50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Skip,
>
> You are quite right that my post could be interpreted either way, but note that:-
>
>1. I have not rubbished you for a less than perfect modification to my
> original post ("but except for Islam") as Ed would have done.

You must be British trembler50. I love British expressions such as "I have not rubbished you for a
less than perfect modification to my original post............."

>
> 2. Subsequent to 1., I have not now relegated you to the rank of "complete moron for whom I have
> no respect".

Oh go ahead - after all this is Usenet and everybody else does it.

>
> 3. While Tom Sherman has disagreed with almost everything Ed has posted, I for one, have not
> observed the sheer hatered and lack of respect that Ed generated.

Actually Ed is just a ****y cat kind of guy underneath all the bluster. Tom Sherman, on the other
hand, is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Apparently you haven't seen him in that silly sheep suit he
wears around.

>
> Condescension Lack of respect Inability to perceive an opposing point of view Hatred

I'm gonna have to get back to you on this one.

>
> Ed is entitlled to have these qualities, but to try to foist these as the norm on the whole world
> to the exclsuion of all others, is very very scary.

Other liberal posters to a.r.b.r. also find Ed very very scary. Sometimes I imagine them posting
from underneath their desks.

>
> Almost, but not quite appropriately, I heard someone on the radio mention a quote attributed to
> Ghandi :-
>
> "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, leaves us with a world full of blind toothless
> people".
>
>
From what I can tell the world appears to be full of people with teeth and eyes so maybe we're
making some progress here.

skip

Skip,

1. Yes I'm British (Scottish to be precise, but that is a whole different argument). I assume you are on another continent because of the time difference.

2. Sorry, can't be bothered.

3. Have not studied Tom yet, only Ed, and you may be right about Ed.

4. Unfortunately the world appear to be full of people who think it is a simple place with simple solutions to problems. Most of them are like Ed, prone to making vast, sweeping generalisations.

Peace and Love (which of course will be misinterpreted by anyone who wants to).

Trembler

 

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On 14 Nov 2003 21:34:32 +1050, trembler50 <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>3. Oh yes, your unyielding style does not make debating with you much fun, it's more like banging
> ones head against a brick wall, better when you stop.
>
>4. You used to be a librarian, that explains a lot.

Conan the librarian.

 

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:17:39 -0600, "skip" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Gov. Dean wants to get out of Iraq and use the $87,000,000,000.00 we would spend there to fund
>universal health care. Would you go this far to get universal health care Ed?

This is an easy one.

If we bail out of Iraq, I suppose that the terrorists will leave us alone to devise our grand plans
for socialism on our shores, undeterred by terrorism on those same shores?

Yeah right.

But wait! Then we'd ALL be veterans, and we could ALL go to the VA like Ed does.

Problem solved. Make it so.

 

[Stratrider]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Tom wrote:
> > ...

> Speaking of waking up, it is time to realize that the hard right Republicans are not
> conservatives at all. Everything they do is driven by a single ideological point - what can be
> done to enable the already rich and powerful help themselves to an even greater share of the
> world's wealth and power.
>

I have made this very comment to friends and family! I have also suggested that at the end of the
day, when the media goes home, the Dems and the Reps go golfing and drinking together. They are all
members of the same club! They are rich, powerful, and want to stay that way.

jim

 

[Edward Dolan]

Zippy the Pinhead <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> On 14 Nov 2003 21:34:32 +1050, trembler50 <[email protected]> wrote:

> >3. Oh yes, your unyielding style does not make debating with you much fun, it's more like banging
> > ones head against a brick wall, better when you stop.
> >
> >4. You used to be a librarian, that explains a lot.
>
> Conan the librarian.

Yeah, Zippy, we librarians are noted for being super aggressive types who take no prisoners!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota (former university librarian)

 

[Edward Dolan]

"skip" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>... [...]
> Gov. Dean wants to get out of Iraq and use the $87,000,000,000.00 we would spend there to fund
> universal health care. Would you go this far to get universal health care Ed?
>
> skip

Skip, see message 8 in this thread for my answer to your question. Defense of the country must
always come first and foremost. What good is universal health care if we don't have a country to
implement it in? I am absolutely certain though that this country will one day have a universal
health care single payer system like Canada and Britain has. Nothing else works anymore.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Zippy the Pinhead <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:17:39 -0600, "skip" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Gov. Dean wants to get out of Iraq and use the $87,000,000,000.00 we would spend there to fund
> >universal health care. Would you go this far to get universal health care Ed?
>
> This is an easy one.
>
> If we bail out of Iraq, I suppose that the terrorists will leave us alone to devise our grand
> plans for socialism on our shores, undeterred by terrorism on those same shores?
>
> Yeah right.
>
> But wait! Then we'd ALL be veterans, and we could ALL go to the VA like Ed does.
>
> Problem solved. Make it so.

The problem of the defense of the nation is entirely separate from the problem of providing adequate
health care to all its' citizens.

Regarding "socialism", do any of us regard the public schools of this country as socialism. Of
course not. And it would be the same with health care. It would just be an addition to the American
Way, same as the public schools (or the public libraries too for that matter) and we would never
think twice about it. Capitalism would flourish the same as always.

All Americans should have at least the kind health care that our vets get at the VA, which is
perfectly adequate without going to extremes. Our present system is broken when you must have
insurance to access health care (because of the high costs) and yet 45 million don't have
it.

Problem solved. Make it so.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Rich Westerman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is no
> > one who listens to Baroque church music. Music began with Haydn essentially. > Ed Dolan -
> > Minnesota
>
>
> Jeezus, Ed- you always make me smile. Here, you remind me of my youngest daughter's boyfriend.
> Like you, he's fond of making vast, sweeping pronouncements about any subject, and like you, he
> never lets his ignorance of the subject slow him down. But he's only 19, and his naiveté is
> charming. I guess this is just part of your personality. I'll bet you're a blast to ride with. If
> you ever make it south to Illinois, we gotta tour together.
>
> You're usually wrong, Ed, but you're always entertaining.

Funny, I think I am usually right about everything, but I am glad that we agree at least that I am
entertaining.

Baroque music is vastly over rated. It is more muzak than music. Stravinsky was quite correct to
describe Vivaldi as a composer who wrote 1 violin concerto 400 times. It was music written according
to formula. Most people who hate music actually kind of like Baroque music because you don't really
ever listen to it. You just kind of over hear it.

Another very great advantage of Baroque music from the musician's point of view is that it is easy
to play compared to the proper classical repertoire. And it is easy to listen to too, except that no
one really listens to it except other aspiring musicians who are planning to play the stuff
themselves.

No, music really did began with Haydn.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

[...]
> I would argue that church music declined after the middle Baroque, as other outlets for composers
> became available. While there are many Renaissance and Baroque composers whose entire liturgical
> output I would be willing to listen to [...]

Why anyone would listen to Renaissance and Baroque composers when you have composers of the
Classical, Romantic and Post-Romantic Eras to listen to is beyond me. But you would enjoy Minnesota
Public Radio. They play tons of early music to take up air space I presume. It is never their
featured selection for the hour, but always just to fill out the hour. That right there ought to
tell you something.

Bottom line though with respect to the arts, there is no accounting for taste.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota