Veterans Only Reply To Rude Drivers

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On 12 Nov 2003 12:57:19 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

>
>I am extremely disappointed that the few conservatives on this newsgroup (not many) have not taken
>me to task on my health care proposals,

You want to ration scarcity. Words fail us.
>
>PS. I think I need a sock puppet!

Well, just nip down to the National Sock Puppet Ministry and apply for one.

It's an entitlement.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Tom Thompson wrote:
> > > ... Include music in the definition of "art" and it grows wider. While Spaniards were largely
> > > left out of the Classical scene during and after the Renaissance, they did popularize the
> > > guitar....
> >
> > Antonio Soler has been unfairly neglected compared to many of his contemporaries. Guerrero and
> > Victoria would have to be considered among the greatest musical talents of their time or any
> > other.
>
> No, Mr. Sherman, these are all very minor composers but excellent nonetheless....

Many would argue that Guerero and Victoria composed liturgical music of a quality equal to any of
their contemporaries. That they are lesser known than say Palestrina, does not necessarily mean
their music is of a lower quality.

> ... Spain could never have produced a Beethoven,...

Mere supposition.

> the greatest composer of them all...

Arguable.

> and one of the greatest geniuses whoever lived (if not in fact the greatest - to be able to
> compose music that the whole world wants to listen to is a much greater achievement that Einstein
> for instance who could only write to his fellow cognoscenti).

Alfred Einstein wrote much about music, but I am not aware of him ever composing anything of
significance - this is the first time he has been compared to Beethoven as far as I know.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

 

[trembler50]

I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.

The saddest thing about Ed Dolan is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his unwavering belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.

In particular his belief that the American way - christianity/democracy(arguable)/capitalism is the only true way and that any other religion, but particularly Islam, should be wiped from the planet.

I find this ironic given that a lot of the original settlers to America went there to escape religious persecution of one sort or another.

I apologise for any spelling errors, which in my opinion, does not make me (or anyone else misspelling things) an idiot.

 

[Skip]

"trembler50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.
>
> The saddest thing about Ed Dolan is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his unwavering
> belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.
>
> In particular his belief that the American way - christianity/democracy(arguable)/capitalism
> is the only true way and that any other religion, but particularly Islam, should be wiped from
> the planet.
>
> I find this ironic given that a lot of the original settlers to America went there to escape
> religious persecution of one sort or another.
>

I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.

The saddest thing about Tom Sherman is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his
unwavering belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.

In particular his belief that the American way - christianity/democracy(arguable)/capitalism is is
evil and that all religions, but except for Islam, should be wiped from the planet.

I find this ironic given that a lot of the original settlers to America went there to escape
religious persecution of one sort or another.

;-) thank you trembler50 - well said

skip

 

[trembler50]

Skip,

You are quite right that my post could be interpreted either way, but note that:-

1. I have not rubbished you for a less than perfect modification to my original post ("but except for Islam") as Ed would have done.

2. Subsequent to 1., I have not now relegated you to the rank of "complete moron for whom I have no respect".

3. While Tom Sherman has disagreed with almost everything Ed has posted, I for one, have not observed the sheer hatered and lack of respect that Ed generated.

Condescension
Lack of respect
Inability to perceive an opposing point of view
Hatred

Ed is entitlled to have these qualities, but to try to foist these as the norm on the whole world to the exclsuion of all others, is very very scary.

Almost, but not quite appropriately, I heard someone on the radio mention a quote attributed to Ghandi :-

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, leaves us with a world full of blind toothless people".

 

[phxartboy]

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > We are having a war in the Middle East (Iraq and Afghanistan)) because that is the epicenter of the terrorism threat.

THE TERRORISTS WERE FROM SAUDI ARABIA AND THE US GOVERNMENT HAS STATED THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO SADDAM AND 9/11 SO PLEASE SHUT YOUR NECK MR. NOLAN BECAUSE THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION FOR DISADVANTAGED AMERICAN KIDS (SINCE RICH KIDS DON'T JOIN THE SERVICE) DYING IN IRAG IS FOR OIL. PERIOD.

 

[Edward Dolan]

trembler50 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.
>
> The saddest thing about Ed Dolan is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his unwavering
> belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.

Nonsense! The fact that I am here arguing with everyone has got to tell you at least that I
recognize that there are other views on everything under the sun. Mr. Sherman and I can't even agree
on what constitutes great music. But so what? That doesn't prevent him from expressing his view and
it doesn't prevent me from expressing my view. Let's face it. You just don't like my style.

> In particular his belief that the American way - christianity/democracy(arguable)/capitalism
> is the only true way and that any other religion, but particularly Islam, should be wiped from
> the planet.

We are going to have to have a really big discussion in this country about the Islamic religion if
and when this War on Terrorism goes on and on and it turns out that all the terrorists are Muslims.
I do believe that not all religions are equal the same way I believe that not all forms of
governance are equal (or for that matter that all civilizations are equal). Democracy and
capitalism, while not perfect, are infinitely superior to all other forms out there in the world
today. I believe most Americans would side with me in my beliefs.

> I find this ironic given that a lot of the original settlers to America went there to escape
> religious persecution of one sort or another.

The original settlers of America were not tolerant at all of other beliefs though. They clearly knew
that what they believed was superior to what any others believed. Do you equate Christianity with
Islam? Do you equate Christianity with any other world religion at all? If you do, you are not a
very good Christian. Tolerance yes, but equality never!

> I apologise for any spelling errors, which in my opinion, does not make me (or anyone else
> misspelling things) an idiot.

I have not had a cow over anyone misspelling anything provided they have not first made it an issue
themselves. Only small minds attach to details like spelling or grammar. I like to think big!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

trembler50 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Skip,
>
> You are quite right that my post could be interpreted either way, but note that:-
>
>1. I have not rubbished you for a less than perfect modification to my
> original post ("but except for Islam") as Ed would have done.

I never do that sort of thing unless someone else has previously made it an issue. I am a former
librarian for Pete's sake. No one knows better than I do what mistakes are constantly being made. As
long as I can get the meaning of what is being said, that is all I care about.

> 2. Subsequent to 1., I have not now relegated you to the rank of "complete moron for whom I have
> no respect".
>
> 3. While Tom Sherman has disagreed with almost everything Ed has posted, I for one, have not
> observed the sheer hatred and lack of respect that Ed generated.

Mr. Sherman and I have completely different styles. I have already stated in a previous post to you
that you do not like my style. So be
Ms. But why have a cow over it. Mr. Sherman has his ways of showing disrespect, I have my ways.

> Condescension Lack of respect Inability to perceive an opposing point of view Hatred

I have never had a problem perceiving an opposing point of view. As a matter of fact, I have mostly
held those views in the past myself (in my long lost youth). What you view as hatred is merely
opposition. I mean to bring out differences clearly and not muddle over things. I like clarity
above all else.

> Ed is entitled to have these qualities, but to try to foist these as the norm on the whole world
> to the exclusion of all others, is very very scary.

My chances of imposing my style on the whole word are exactly nil. But I am not emotionally neutral
on a lot of issues for the sake of argument. I do feel strongly about some issues and I do not mind
letting others know how I feel. There is nothing scary about this. It is normal and natural.

> Almost, but not quite appropriately, I heard someone on the radio mention a quote attributed to
> Gandhi :-
>
> "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, leaves us with a world full of blind toothless
> people".

Gandhi was perfectly capable of taking violent action to get what he wanted. All this business about
passive disobedience is a crock. Nobody ever got anything by passive disobedience. If the Nazis
instead of the Brits had been ruling India at the time, even Gandhi would have discovered that
passive disobedience was the crock that it was. Try to get real!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

phxartboy <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> > Edward Dolan wrote:

> > > We are having a war in the Middle East (Iraq and Afghanistan)) because that is the epicenter
> > > of the terrorism threat.
>
> THE TERRORISTS WERE FROM SAUDI ARABIA AND THE US GOVERNMENT HAS STATED THAT THERE IS NO
> CONNECTION TO SADDAM AND 9/11 SO PLEASE SHUT YOUR NECK MR. NOLAN BECAUSE THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION
> FOR DISADVANTAGED AMERICAN KIDS (SINCE RICH KIDS DON'T JOIN THE SERVICE) DYING IN IRAG IS FOR
> OIL. PERIOD.

Everyone presently in the military forces of the US are there because they want to be there. They
are proud to be defending their country and I am proud of them for doing so. And you can put a
period on that too.

The terrorists were all from the Middle East and that is why we are there too. But I think if you
could have your druthers, you would just as soon forget about the whole thing (9/11) and cower in
your cellar praying that the terrorists don't hit us again. No thanks! We Americans are not cowards
and we mean to exact revenge for the outrage. But go ahead and vote for that coward and scoundrel
Dean (if and when you have the opportunity). He is all for cutting and running to the UN. That is
what you would like us to do too no doubt. But unfortunately for you, we have real man in the White
House and not some coward and scoundrel like Dean.

You and Mr. Sherman should get together and sing a duet about how Iraq is all about oil. The song is
wearing thin by now and you will not get much applause for your performance by the American people.
But the treasonous liberals will chime in and that will make you feel good. You should at least have
something to feel good about since everything else thankfully is not going your way.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ... English music has always been a mystery to the rest of the world The English love music more
> > than any other people. I believe London has more symphony orchestras than any other large city.
> > But English music is abysmal. Other than Elgar and a few others , there is not much there. Let's
> > face it. The English are not into music in the same way that the Germans are. But so what? The
> > English are preeminent in the literary arts....
>
> There were two potentially great English composers between Purcell and Elgar, Thomas Linley and
> George Pinto, but unfortunately both died in their early 20's (and of course Purcell died at the
> premature age of
> 36). So bad luck certainly played a part.

There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is no one
who listens to Baroque church music. Music began with Haydn essentially. All music prior to him was
essentially European music fostered and supported by the Church. Even Handel and Bach can be
terrible bores. They were way too intoxicated with God and religion to suit me.

> The number of orchestras in London is misleading - there are many musicians who are members of
> more than one - and arguably the quality of performance has suffered from it. There are few, if
> any who would claim that there is a current English orchestra in the same class as the
> Philharmonia was under Herb the Tyrant.

How is it misleading if all those orchestras engender concert going audiences who pay good money to
attend their concerts. At last count I believe there were 5 symphony orchestras in London giving
more or less regular concerts. I don't believe New York could support this level of concert going.
Most major American cities are fortunate if they can support even one symphony orchestra. I stand by
my statement that the English are a music loving people even though they themselves do not produce
great composers.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

> >> > By and large, it is undeniable that the US has the best health care facilities in the world
> >> > bar none,
>
> I disagree. The US has the MOST EXPENSIVE health care in the world bar none, but it produces
> pitiful near-third-world results.
>
> See e.g. http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf, which quotes a bunch of figures from the WHO
> and other sources.
>
> * The US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in the world. In 1998 it was
> $4178 in the US vs. $2794 for the next-highest- spending country, Switzerland.
>
> * The US is the only country in the developed world, other than South Africa, that does not
> provide health care to all its citizens. As of 1998 roughly 42.6 MILLION people in this country
> were uninsured.
>
> * The US has by far the highest infant mortality rate of the 14 countries listed in this study --
> including the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, and 10 European countries. The US ranked 26th among
> industrialized nations in infant mortality rates.
>
> * The US ranks 24th in Disability-Adjusted Life Expectancy.
>
> Health care costs the people of this country a fortune, and it's skyrocketing at a staggering
> pace. We're getting socked for an incredibly expensive product, and we're getting a piece of junk.
>
> Gary

Gary, I couldn't agree with you more! I am going to use your information here that you furnished in
your very excellent post as ammunition for all the dunderheads in this country who think that health
care is a privilege and that you should only get it if you can afford to pay for it. We here in
southern Minnesota can access the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota and get just about the best
care in the world. To go through the Clinic there is to be mightily impressed. And they try to
charge you what you can afford to pay. But still, you have to be able to pay.

But I do think it is scandalous that we can not provide health care in this country the equivalent
of what every other advanced industrialized nation is providing it's citizens. This is going to
become the biggest issue facing the country eventually. The American people are going to insist on
affordable health care. It has to be made an entitlement and a universal single payer system is the
only way to go. The conservatives are out to lunch on this issue, but it is going to come back to
bite them big time. The Dems will someday be able to win elections on this issue alone. I wish
conservatives could wake up and get real on this issue.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Zippy the Pinhead <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> On 12 Nov 2003 12:57:19 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

> >I am extremely disappointed that the few conservatives on this newsgroup (not many) have not
> >taken me to task on my health care proposals,
>
> You want to ration scarcity. Words fail us.

There is no reason in this world why health care should fall into the category of scarcity. Is
schooling in this country (K -12) scarce? Of course not. It is just a question of deciding what is
important. Usually all it takes to convince anyone of the importance of health care is to get a life
threatening disease and then to learn that it is going to cost you a fortune in order not to die of
it. Then you began to have a sea change in your opinions of what you think is important.

> >PS. I think I need a sock puppet!
>
> Well, just nip down to the National Sock Puppet Ministry and apply for one.
>
> It's an entitlement.

No, now that you are here I will not need a sock puppet. I am for keeping the entitlements to an
absolute minimum, but the right to life is pretty basic don't you think? Or do you think it should
depend on one's financial resources?

If health care hadn't gotten so doggone expensive in the last 50 years, it would be no big deal, but
the fact is that health care is now outrageously expensive. And according to Gary Fritz, it is not
all that good either. Something has got to change. The private sector has proven over and over that
they can not handle the situation. Government is the only solution.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> > There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is no
> > one who listens to Baroque church music.
>
> My mate Mr. Fortescue does...

My compliments to Mr. Fortescue. He is a rare bird indeed!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
......

> > ... Spain could never have produced a Beethoven,...
>
> Mere supposition.

Hardly! Spain has had centuries to come up with comparable composers. Most of the great classical
composers that we associate with Spain have been Italians (Boccherini and Scarlatti among others).

> > the greatest composer of them all...
>
> Arguable.

Only by engineers and scientists who most often are tone deaf.

> > and one of the greatest geniuses whoever lived (if not in fact the greatest - to be able to
> > compose music that the whole world wants to listen to is a much greater achievement that
> > Einstein for instance who could only write to his fellow cognoscenti).
>
> Alfred Einstein wrote much about music, but I am not aware of him ever composing anything of
> significance - this is the first time he has been compared to Beethoven as far as I know.

It is possible to compare what is required in the way of genius in order to have an impact on
culture. A great composer like Beethoven is an infinitely greater genius than is a great scientist
like Einstein because Beethoven directly impacts the peoples of the world whereas Einstein only
directly impacts a certain subspecies of scientists of the world. Besides which it takes greater
genius to move the emotions and intellect together (Beethoven) than it does just to move the
intellect (Einstein). Plus the fact that practically no one in the world can even understand
Einstein whereas peoples all over the world understand and love Beethoven (the Japanese seem to
especially love his 9th Symphony for some reason).

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Dave Larrington]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is no
> one who listens to Baroque church music.

My mate Mr. Fortescue does...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

[...]

> Alfred Einstein wrote much about music, but I am not aware of him ever composing anything of
> significance - this is the first time he has been compared to Beethoven as far as I know.

Well, everyone has forever been confusing Alfred with Albert. Alfred was a great music critic of
course, and Albert was the great physicist. I well know the difference between the two, but as
always I am like a bull and when someone waves the red flag in front of me I immediately go for the
jugular. Skip would never have made my mistake, as he contemplates what he reads before he reacts.
But not I. I know in a flash what to say to anything even before I am done reading the message. I
can see that I will have to slow down some when I am reading you.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Skip]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> [...]
>
> > Alfred Einstein wrote much about music, but I am not aware of him ever composing anything of
> > significance - this is the first time he has been compared to Beethoven as far as I know.
>
> Well, everyone has forever been confusing Alfred with Albert. Alfred was a great music critic of
> course, and Albert was the great physicist. I well know the difference between the two, but as
> always I am like a bull and when someone waves the red flag in front of me I immediately go for
> the jugular. Skip would never have made my mistake, as he contemplates what he reads before he
> reacts. But not I. I know in a flash what to say to anything even before I am done reading the
> message. I can see that I will have to slow down some when I am reading you.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Skip is busy contemplating what life would be like with the name Alfred Einstein.

skip

 

[Rich Westerman]

> There is no one who listens to Baroque music with any attention and most especially there is no
> one who listens to Baroque church music. Music began with Haydn essentially. > Ed Dolan -
> Minnesota

Jeezus, Ed- you always make me smile. Here, you remind me of my youngest daughter's boyfriend. Like
you, he's fond of making vast, sweeping pronouncements about any subject, and like you, he never
lets his ignorance of the subject slow him down. But he's only 19, and his naiveté is charming. I
guess this is just part of your personality. I'll bet you're a blast to ride with. If you ever make
it south to Illinois, we gotta tour together.

You're usually wrong, Ed, but you're always entertaining.

rich

"After ecstasy, laundry." - Zen writing

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Gandhi was perfectly capable of taking violent action to get what he wanted. All this business
> about passive disobedience is a crock. Nobody ever got anything by passive disobedience. If the
> Nazis instead of the Brits had been ruling India at the time, even Gandhi would have discovered
> that passive disobedience was the crock that it was. Try to get real!

Passive resistance works well when the oppressor has a sense of moral decency and fair play, such as
the British had during the occupation of India. It would not work in the situation where the
leadership of the oppressors believe or claims to believe that what they are doing is morally right,
e.g. ****** and Stalin had stated ideologies that allowed them to be mass murderers without
violating their "moral" framework. Using violence against peaceful Indians violated the stated moral
framework of the British.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Tom Sherman]

I'm afraid I can contain myself no longer.

The saddest thing about Skip (who?) is not his views, which he is entitled to, it is his unwavering
belief that there is only one view (his) and that any other view is invalid.

In particular his belief that any inheritance tax, even on fortunes of billions of dollars, is evil
and that all who would impose such a tax should be wiped from the planet.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"There is enough in the world for everyone's need; there is not enough for everyone's greed." -
Mohandas Gandhi