What American Cities are Missing: Bikes by the Thousands



P

Pat

Guest
On Jun 1, 9:20 am, "george conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
> > Pat wrote:
> >> On May 31, 5:10 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> >>>news:[email protected]

>
> >>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship
> >>>> <[email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> >>>>>>> automobile.
> >>>>>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> >>>>>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> >>>>>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> >>>>>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
> >>>>> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without
> >>>>> owning
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> car.
> >>>> How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
> >>>> think that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more
> >>>> people arranging their lives to live without cars.
> >>> I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I
> >>> would
> >>> have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than
> >>> I
> >>> am if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would
> >>> probably
> >>> starve if they did not have one.

>
> >> Don't sweat it. All of the anti-car and ride-a-bike people live in
> >> cities where it might be feasible to like without a car. They are
> >> very ego-centric and forget that people live in rural areas. Live
> >> without a car? Not likely. It's 20 miles to the nearest Walmart.
> >> Oops, did I say Walmart. Sorry. Here, we have two small grocery
> >> stores that are on the Reservation, but no clothing stores or anything
> >> like that. Plus no public transporation except 1 inter-city bus per
> >> day and the Nation's bus service for the Elders. Someday they'll
> >> recognize that people still live in the boonies.

>
> > Well said. City dwellers are a rather biased lot.
> > Bill Baka

>
> But then they would say, "Raise taxes and provide 'affordable' bus
> transit to the Reservation."



George, run for it!!! You used "taxes" and "Reservation" in the same
sentence. Eeeks. That's a no-no around here. Heck, you can't even
say they are tax _exempt_. They are _immune_.

http://www.sni.org/indiantreaties.html
 
P

Pat

Guest
On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Clark F Morris wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:13 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]
> >>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Dane Buson wrote:

>
> >>>>> Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
> >>>>> mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

>
> >>>>> I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
> >>>>> me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
> >>>>> weren't on the road?
> >>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
> >>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> >>>> automobile.
> >>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> >>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> >>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> >>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
> >> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
> >> car.

> > Probably not in the more remote rural areas and probably not in new
> > sprawled suburban areas.

>
> I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
> LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
> town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
> a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
> American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
> bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
> and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
> trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
> appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
> big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
> to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
> We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
> Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
> bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
> someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
> business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
> unless you are a city office drone.
> Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
> I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
> spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
> Bill (realistic) Baka



One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
mother's house for a few days.

That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
motorcycle.
 
B

Bill

Guest
Pat wrote:
> On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
>> LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
>> town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
>> a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
>> American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
>> bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
>> and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
>> trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
>> appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
>> big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
>> to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
>> We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
>> Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
>> bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
>> someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
>> business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
>> unless you are a city office drone.
>> Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
>> I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
>> spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
>> Bill (realistic) Baka

>
>
> One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
> to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
> drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
> After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
> mother's house for a few days.
>
> That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
> motorcycle.
>
>

Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
the time.
Bill Baka
 
D

Dane Buson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
>>>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
>>>>> automobile.
>>>>
>>>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
>>>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely, they
>>>> shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone being
>>>> dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
>>>
>>> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
>>> car.

>>
>> How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather think
>> that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more people
>> arranging their lives to live without cars.

>
> I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I would
> have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than I am
> if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would probably
> starve if they did not have one.


How did we go from "Let's get rid of the worst drivers and make it a
*little* more difficult to get a license" to "zOMG people are going to
STARVE to death!1!!one!" ? Would that be a Red Herring or a Strawman?

As to living without a car, I suppose noone has ever heard of ride
sharing, elder care, friends and neighbors or any other resource? Noone
said losing your license would be easy for everyone, but it shouldn't
be. It's a punishment. If it is a hardship, maybe you'll be more
careful when you do get your license back.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't make eight cats pull a sled through
the snow.
 
D

Doc O'Leary

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm wondering at what point George thinks bicycling with cargo becomes
> abuse.


Why? That's like bothering to wonder about the point at which a filthy
bum thinks they need a shower. What makes biking objectively less
abusive than many physical jobs is that the gearing allows you to put no
greater stress on your body when you're pushing 2 extra people (or
whatever the cargo is) than when you're pushing just yourself.

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
 
D

Dane Buson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 31, 5:10 pm, "Amy Blankenship"> wrote:
>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
>> > think that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more
>> > people arranging their lives to live without cars.

>>
>> I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I would
>> have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than I
>> am if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would probably
>> starve if they did not have one.

>
> Don't sweat it. All of the anti-car and ride-a-bike people live in
> cities where it might be feasible to like without a car.


There is more than a grain of truth to that. I don't think you could
accurately characterize me as anti-car, but rather someone for
appropriate use. It's definitely easier to go without a car in the city
when you talk about the US.

However other regions have not subsidized the car to the exclusion of
all else and actually have usable public transportation even in the
rural areas.

> They are very ego-centric and forget that people live in rural areas. Live
> without a car? Not likely. It's 20 miles to the nearest Walmart.


Egocentric? Because I call for people to take responsibility for their
actions? Because I want people to have appropriate training when
they're guiding a huge chunk of metal at speeds that can easily kill
themselves and others?

Forget people live in rural areas? Not at all. I grew up in a rural
area and much of my family farms or lives in farm country. Anyway, I
know you people love to prop up the strawman about how people like me
want everyone to live without cars, but that's not what I was saying.

> Oops, did I say Walmart. Sorry. Here, we have two small grocery
> stores that are on the Reservation, but no clothing stores or anything
> like that. Plus no public transporation except 1 inter-city bus per
> day and the Nation's bus service for the Elders. Someday they'll
> recognize that people still live in the boonies.


Less and less of them do.

http://www.economist.com/surveys/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9070726

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On May 31, 2:15 pm, "Stephen Sprunk" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
> > In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> > difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> > they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> > being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

>
> Most, if not all, states have various laws that allow for revocation of a
> license under various conditions. However, there is no periodic testing and
> it's based on various crimes one commits, like reckless driving or DWI, and
> typically one gets the license back automatically after a period of time.
> In a sense, it's left to the insurance companies -- if someone will insure
> you, after considering your driving record, you're assumed to be competent.
> This could definitely be improved.
>
> Still, revoking licenses doesn't do much good. Something like 25% of
> drivers here are unlicensed, and they're only caught if they happen to
> commit some other crime like speeding. This is, unfortunately, the primary
> way that illegal aliens are caught here: they get stopped for speeding (or
> get in an accident and are too injured to run), arrested because they don't
> have a license, and deported if INS can prove they aren't in the country
> legally. OTOH, if someone is a decent driver, they can go for years without
> a license and nobody will ever know. As a response, the cops now pull
> people over who _aren't_ speeding, claiming that's a sign of DWI. The logic
> of assuming people who _aren't_ committing a crime are criminals is amazing.


Driving cautiously and respecfully is highly suspicious in America.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On May 31, 2:58 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> > In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Dane Buson wrote:

>
> >>> Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
> >>> mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

>
> >>> I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
> >>> me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
> >>> weren't on the road?

>
> >> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
> >> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> >> automobile.

>
> > In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> > difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> > they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> > being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

>
> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
> car.-


That's very suspicious too. Someone riding a bike to work may be put
on a list of "ecoterrorists."
 
B

Bolwerk

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> Going to the store every now and then is not the same thing, but
>> as you know, exercise freaks end up with bad knees, bad feet, arthritis and
>> artifical joints. You will too.

>
> Could be. I've only been at it 30-some years, who knows what the future
> will bring.
>
> On the other hand, people around the world manage to cycle for work and
> pleasure well into their 70s and beyond.


From what I understand, cycling is better on your joints than most
other forms of exercise.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On May 31, 11:27 pm, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
> > In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
> > car.

>
> It's feasible here too, it just makes you uncool. Personally, I love my car.


Uncool and unsustainable, if you have to go out of the main routes.
It's OK though for when you retire and you have all the time in the
world.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On May 31, 11:32 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 31, 5:10 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> >news:[email protected]

>
> > > In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > >>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
> > >>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> > >>>> automobile.

>
> > >>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> > >>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> > >>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> > >>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

>
> > >> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning
> > >> a
> > >> car.

>
> > > How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
> > > think that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more
> > > people arranging their lives to live without cars.

>
> > I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I would
> > have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than I
> > am if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would probably
> > starve if they did not have one.

>
> Don't sweat it. All of the anti-car and ride-a-bike people live in
> cities where it might be feasible to like without a car. They are
> very ego-centric and forget that people live in rural areas. Live
> without a car?


You ever heard of live and let live? It means drive a car if you will,
or drive a bike if you can. Well, must people just can't ride a bike
without unnecessary risks and humiliations.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On Jun 1, 12:12 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 5:10 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> >>news:[email protected]

>
> >> > In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship
> >> > <[email protected]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >> >>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> >> >>>> automobile.

>
> >> >>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> >> >>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> >> >>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> >> >>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

>
> >> >> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without
> >> >> owning
> >> >> a
> >> >> car.

>
> >> > How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
> >> > think that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more
> >> > people arranging their lives to live without cars.

>
> >> I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I
> >> would
> >> have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than
> >> I
> >> am if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would
> >> probably
> >> starve if they did not have one.

>
> > Don't sweat it. All of the anti-car and ride-a-bike people live in
> > cities where it might be feasible to like without a car. They are
> > very ego-centric and forget that people live in rural areas. Live
> > without a car? Not likely. It's 20 miles to the nearest Walmart.
> > Oops, did I say Walmart. Sorry. Here, we have two small grocery
> > stores that are on the Reservation, but no clothing stores or anything
> > like that. Plus no public transporation except 1 inter-city bus per
> > day and the Nation's bus service for the Elders. Someday they'll
> > recognize that people still live in the boonies.

>
> There are plenty of urban and suburban areas where it is also not safe to
> ride a bike.-


Exactly. Where is feasible is dangerous, and where is unfeasable, well
it's just unfeasable. You are F*** either way.l
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On Jun 1, 1:53 am, <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
> > Pedicabs are being discouraged and banned because those who do that kind
> > of work basically wear themselves out in about 5 years.

>
> Not true of any of the pedicab operators I've known, but for the sake of
> argument, we can pretend they're all statistical outliers.
>
> > It is highly
> > abusive.

>
> It's easier on the body than drywall installation, ditch digging, or
> meat packing, judging by disability rates.


It's regrettable that our friend George still sees pedicabs as
something backward. Something fit for Roman times perhaps...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/249437991/
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On Jun 1, 9:21 am, "george conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> > Clark F Morris wrote:
> >> On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:13 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]
> >>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> Dane Buson wrote:

>
> >>>>>> Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
> >>>>>> mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

>
> >>>>>> I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
> >>>>>> me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
> >>>>>> weren't on the road?
> >>>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> >>>>> automobile.
> >>>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> >>>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> >>>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> >>>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
> >>> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning
> >>> a car.
> >> Probably not in the more remote rural areas and probably not in new
> >> sprawled suburban areas.

>
> > I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2 LBS
> > even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small town to
> > get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on a bike
> > unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the American way
> > of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target.

>
> Cities have always "sprawled" Even Queen Elizabeth I was against London
> growing. The term itself shows a strong anti-urban bias.-


Not nearly on the scale America has sprawled. Our sprawl necessitates
the automobile, or better yet, the SUV. The American dream...

http://www.civicdesigncenter.org/images/Suburbia.jpg

I hope the wake up time is coming soon. ;)
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
On Jun 1, 11:32 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Clark F Morris wrote:
> > > On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:13 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > >> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >>news:[email protected]
> > >>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>> Dane Buson wrote:

>
> > >>>>> Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
> > >>>>> mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

>
> > >>>>> I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
> > >>>>> me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
> > >>>>> weren't on the road?
> > >>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
> > >>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
> > >>>> automobile.
> > >>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
> > >>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
> > >>> they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
> > >>> being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
> > >> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
> > >> car.
> > > Probably not in the more remote rural areas and probably not in new
> > > sprawled suburban areas.

>
> > I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
> > LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
> > town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
> > a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
> > American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
> > bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
> > and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
> > trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
> > appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
> > big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
> > to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
> > We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
> > Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
> > bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
> > someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
> > business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
> > unless you are a city office drone.
> > Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
> > I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
> > spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
> > Bill (realistic) Baka

>
> One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
> to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
> drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
> After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
> mother's house for a few days.
>
> That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
> motorcycle.-


Most people do drive under 5 miles, and that can happen on a bike.
 
B

Bolwerk

Guest
george conklin wrote:
> "Bolwerk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> George Conklin wrote:
>>> "Bolwerk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>>>> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>>> Pushing the labor laws back to those of the third world is not a
>>> viable
>>>>>> goal. Such work is abusive, and if you pull the pedicab yourself,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are abusing yourself.
>>>> I guess any work that involves physical exertion is "abusive." Like,
>>>> say, construction, carpentry...um, farming?
>>>>
>>>>> George believes that everyone in the US should be free...
>>>>> to do things George approves of.
>>>> I'm starting to wonder if George knows what George approves of.
>>> Pushing third world abuses into the USA is no victory for anyone but this
>>> fool.

>> You have a funny notion of what "third world abuse" is. I would think it
>> amounts more to something like working your fingers raw in a sweat shop
>> for 17 hours a day, seven days a week.
>>
>> I don't know for sure, but if I was to venture a guess, I'd say pedicab
>> operation is probably better pay than burger flipping, and healthier.

>
> Except it is not healthy. It is abusive of the body. It wears out the
> body in about 5 years. That is why pedicabs are being banned by those who
> know what is going on in nations where they have them.


Today, George made up a new reason to hate pedicabs: they wear out the
body! Now, there doesn't appear to be any evidence to support that, but
you know, everything George says is true!

Like, yeah, I'm sure they're much worse for the body (and other bodies
around them) than the pollutants that come out of your exhaust pipe.

Oh, wait, is George advocating banning cars now?
 
A

Amy Blankenship

Guest
"Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
>>>>>> automobile.
>>>>>
>>>>> In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
>>>>> difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
>>>>> they
>>>>> shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone being
>>>>> dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
>>>>
>>>> In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without
>>>> owning a
>>>> car.
>>>
>>> How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
>>> think
>>> that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more people
>>> arranging their lives to live without cars.

>>
>> I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I
>> would
>> have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than
>> I am
>> if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would probably
>> starve if they did not have one.

>
> How did we go from "Let's get rid of the worst drivers and make it a
> *little* more difficult to get a license" to "zOMG people are going to
> STARVE to death!1!!one!" ? Would that be a Red Herring or a Strawman?


I didn't say people are going to starve. But there would be little
political support for making it more difficult to get a driver's license,
because people know that it simply isn't practical in most places not to be
able to drive. Therefore, making getting a license harder amounts to cruel
and unusual punishment for people who have not done anything wrong--their
only crime is that they have not gotten their license yet. Which is
precisely why people are not going to starve, unless something goes wrong
with our ability to distribute fuel or the highway system.

-Amy
 
A

Amy Blankenship

Guest
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Pat wrote:
>> On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
>>> LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
>>> town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
>>> a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
>>> American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
>>> bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
>>> and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
>>> trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
>>> appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
>>> big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
>>> to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
>>> We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
>>> Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
>>> bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
>>> someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
>>> business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
>>> unless you are a city office drone.
>>> Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
>>> I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
>>> spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
>>> Bill (realistic) Baka

>>
>>
>> One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
>> to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
>> drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
>> After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
>> mother's house for a few days.
>>
>> That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
>> motorcycle.
>>
>>

> Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
> the time.


Because we fail to arrange our space in such a way that it can be avoided.
 
R

rotten

Guest
On Jun 1, 2:05 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 31, 11:27 pm, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> >news:[email protected]

>
> > > In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
> > > car.

>
> > It's feasible here too, it just makes you uncool. Personally, I love my car.

>
> Uncool and unsustainable, if you have to go out of the main routes.
> It's OK though for when you retire and you have all the time in the
> world.


Oh it's unsustainable is it? Well, that would mean it cannot be
sustained (ala the old economist quote). When that occurs I will give
it up.
 
A

Amy Blankenship

Guest
"Clark F Morris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:40:06 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>> Pat wrote:
>>>> On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
>>>>> LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
>>>>> town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done
>>>>> on
>>>>> a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
>>>>> American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
>>>>> bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one
>>>>> (Freeway
>>>>> and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small
>>>>> bicycle
>>>>> trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
>>>>> appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are
>>>>> another
>>>>> big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
>>>>> to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
>>>>> We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
>>>>> Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are
>>>>> beyond
>>>>> bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
>>>>> someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in
>>>>> my
>>>>> business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life
>>>>> works
>>>>> unless you are a city office drone.
>>>>> Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
>>>>> I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but
>>>>> won't
>>>>> spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
>>>>> Bill (realistic) Baka
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
>>>> to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
>>>> drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
>>>> After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
>>>> mother's house for a few days.
>>>>
>>>> That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
>>>> motorcycle.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
>>> the time.

>>
>>Because we fail to arrange our space in such a way that it can be avoided.
>>

> Given where Pat says he lives (and in fact where I live in rural Nova
> Scotia), it is hard to do without a car. It would still be awkward
> and limiting if I lived in the nearest town where I would be on the
> every other hour transit line and have one bus a day to Halifax. I
> would assume that this is true of most rural areas in North America
> and Europe.


But even in relatively urban areas we fail to arrange our space where living
without a car would be feasible (in most cases...there are some exceptions).