Contador positive for Clenbuterol



Originally Posted by doctorSpoc .

this is a total witch hunt...

this test for plasticizers is not even an approved test... like i said.. i'm all for getting dope cheats.. but the system needs to be fair, scientifically validated, approvals needs to happen and process needs to be followed.. i'm a total lance hater, but i understand and fully support his 6 non-negatives for EPO in 1999 not being used to sanction him.. we need fairness.. we need procedures to be followed.. this is madness!
Are you comparing like for like there? Weren't the samples from 1999 retrospectively tested using what was, by then, an approved test? Yeah, I know they were other issues with the circumstances in which they were tested which are too boring to go into so let's not talk about that again.

Thing is, I would be more than happy to see retrospective, even targeted, testing taking place of stored samples. I also don't see a problem with anti-doping efforts making use of as yet non-accredited tests as a way of identifying suspicious individuals. Come on, how long was EPO almost ubiquitous before they finally sorted out the test?!

Personally, I'm surprised only that he's been caught and can't say that I find it hard to believe he doped. I also don't feel particularly sorry for him but that's mainly because I find him lacking in charisma and I'm a fairly jaded individual these days. So yeah, it's probably not right that the plasticiser business was made public but he did test positive for a banned drug. This happens to jobbing Belgian cyclocross riders etc all the time without any of us giving any credibility to their protests of innocence.

Hell, maybe I am guilty of witch huntery but isn't that what internet forums are for?
 
The clenbuterol is a violation and the plasticizer (if true) is an indicator. Individually they may not be substantive, but together they are very damning.

It's starting to look very bad in my opinion.
 
why dont they just leagelize drugs in cycling? everyone has been caught....... except lance...hahahaha.

cyclingnews.com has a nice write up on bernard kohl.. he's telling all about how everyone who wins the tour takes drugs..

no kidding.....
 
and mcquaid still uses landis as a whipping boy. pat is trying to turn a blind eye to the problem so fast he's spun himself halfway down to china.
 
Originally Posted by slovakguy .

and mcquaid still uses landis as a whipping boy. pat is trying to turn a blind eye to the problem so fast he's spun himself halfway down to china.
Landis makes himself everyones whipping boy. When Landis makes himself look like a chump then it's open season for everyone else.

Personally, I'd like to see Landis step down off his cross so we have a place to nail McQuaid but that ain't gonna happen until the TV series/book deal and subsequent world tour... We'll be flicking through the TV channels and stumble across MTV airing "The Real Life - Tour de France edition". Landis will be walking around with an IV hooked upto his arm and a portable blood bag/stand. Vino will be sat in the back yard syphoning blood from a cow and using a Siberian hand cranked centrifuge to spin cows blood and LeMond will be found in the back room with Otto figuring out how where to stick the needle for the B12 and iron shots... Indurain will be quietly sitting watching in the corner, smiling, saying that everyone was very good and they were all great champions.
 
Developer of plasticizer test comments on Contador affair
Until recently, Dr. Jordi Segura, the head of the IOC-accredited laboratory in Barcelona, was largely unknown outside scientific circles. However, thanks to a test that he has developed to detect plasticisers within the human body, Segura has unwittingly taken centre stage in the doping affair surrounding Tour de France winner Alberto Contador.
His test is designed to detect evidence of autologous blood transfusions, and was reportedly used by the laboratory in Cologne, Germany on Contador's samples from the Tour de France.
Questioned about claims made in the New York Times and L'Equipe that Contador's levels were eight to 10 times higher than normal, Segura said, "Those reported parameters are an unequivocal indication [that a blood transfusion took place]," Segura told AS. "However, we should look at all the data and see if there are any sudden changes in the levels in the samples taken before and afterwards."

Segura said that he had no idea that his method for detecting plasticisers had been used by the laboratory in Cologne to test Contador's samples from the Tour. "Nobody has officially notified us that it has been used," Segura confirms. "I don't understand how it can be that they haven't been in contact with the people who developed the test, especially as it is being used in such high-profile case."

Segura said that although the test for di-phthalate plasticizers has yet to be formally sanctioned by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), the method is valid.
"It's totally good and robust, and it's one of the most important anti-doping advances in recent years because it's the only way of knowing if somebody has undergone an autologous blood transfusion," Segura explained, before outlining how the test works.

"Plastic bags have components that we call plasticizers, which retain the properties of red blood cells during storage. As these residues are also found in common items, the sample must demonstrate a very high level of detection and quantity in order to be considered positive."

Segura admitted that the test may not be legally binding, given that it has yet to be formally validated. "That would be a question for WADA," he said. "In legal terms, you may need more tests to support it, as often happens with such discoveries. But in technical terms, I can say now that it's a categorical method that is perfectly applicable."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/segura-says-contador-plasticizer-levels-are-indicative-of-transfusion
 
The sad thing is, despite the benefit to anti-doping detection that the plasticzer test brings, there seems to be an easy workaround to not get caught…just stick the blood in a different container.
 
Originally Posted by genedan .

The sad thing is, despite the benefit to anti-doping detection that the plasticzer test brings, there seems to be an easy workaround to not get caught…just stick the blood in a different container.

Good point. I doubt any riders and their dope doctors will use blood bags for storage anymore. Below is a link to a medical supply office that sells vacuum sealed containers for storage, which I'm sure have seen an increase in sales over the past week/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif This test seems very limited and there are obvious ways to get around it.

Seems like products like this may be the way to go. http://www.discountlabs.com/store/product.php?productid=5&cat=1&page=1
 
Originally Posted by leanman .

why dont they just leagelize drugs in cycling? everyone has been caught....... except lance...hahahaha.

cyclingnews.com has a nice write up on bernard kohl.. he's telling all about how everyone who wins the tour takes drugs..

no kidding.....
Thats a popular argument to just legalize drugs in cycling. However, not everyone in the peleton dopes because of personal ethics and they just don't want to put a potentialy dangerous substance in their body. I also don't have much faith Bernard Kohl when he says everyone in the peleton dopes. He might be right to say that all tour winners are dopers, but he may also be using this as an oppurtunity to make his own doping in the past less of a big deal.

Also, some of the drugs out there are dangerous to a rider's health.
 
even the italian olympic committee investigator that busted Basso and Valverde amoung many other is saying.. this is just stupid.. just legalize doping... at least to some level where the concern is health not performance enhancement..

i'm not sure that's that answer or not but, i don't buy your argument against it either.. riding down mountains at 100+ km/hr with shear cliffs is pretty dangerous too.. riding at 70km/hr inches away from other riders arms and legs flailing in mass sprints is pretty dangerous, but that's the sport.. what if my religion precludes me from working on Sundays is it fair that i can't compete in cycling since many races take place on sundays? what if i don't think it's right morally that i have to spend weeks an months away from my family, miss the birth of my child etc.. most of the arguments i hear against doping don't make a lot of sense when you look at the sport of cycling.. no one has a god given right to compete in pro cycling.. it takes a lot of commitment and sacrifices and it's very dangerous.
 
New evidence has been submitted that may clear Contador of the blood bag theory.

 
Originally Posted by swampy1970 .



Landis makes himself everyones whipping boy. When Landis makes himself look like a chump then it's open season for everyone else.

Personally, I'd like to see Landis step down off his cross so we have a place to nail McQuaid but that ain't gonna happen until the TV series/book deal and subsequent world tour... We'll be flicking through the TV channels and stumble across MTV airing "The Real Life - Tour de France edition". Landis will be walking around with an IV hooked upto his arm and a portable blood bag/stand. Vino will be sat in the back yard syphoning blood from a cow and using a Siberian hand cranked centrifuge to spin cows blood and LeMond will be found in the back room with Otto figuring out how where to stick the needle for the B12 and iron shots... Indurain will be quietly sitting watching in the corner, smiling, saying that everyone was very good and they were all great champions.
/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
 
Originally Posted by jhuskey .

New evidence has been submitted that may clear Contador of the blood bag theory.

Thats funny. Well played sir, well played./img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif Need to get me one of them as well !!!
 
Originally Posted by doctorSpoc .

even the italian olympic committee investigator that busted Basso and Valverde amoung many other is saying.. this is just stupid.. just legalize doping... at least to some level where the concern is health not performance enhancement..

i'm not sure that's that answer or not but, i don't buy your argument against it either.. riding down mountains at 100+ km/hr with shear cliffs is pretty dangerous too.. riding at 70km/hr inches away from other riders arms and legs flailing in mass sprints is pretty dangerous, but that's the sport.. what if my religion precludes me from working on Sundays is it fair that i can't compete in cycling since many races take place on sundays? what if i don't think it's right morally that i have to spend weeks an months away from my family, miss the birth of my child etc.. most of the arguments i hear against doping don't make a lot of sense when you look at the sport of cycling.. no one has a god given right to compete in pro cycling.. it takes a lot of commitment and sacrifices and it's very dangerous.

Just because one expert says that doping should be legalized doesn't mean it should be. Yes, riding is dangerous and people have died racing, but I don't think that is a good argument to legalize other potentialy dangerous substances in the peleton whether they are already being used by riders or not.
 
Originally Posted by Andrija .

"This is naked truth", Contador said and came up with hard evidence.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif .....obviously your English is very good!