That's amazing. I've never heard this before. The French don't believe in tainting?allegroman said:
landis is innocent until proven guilty...
- Thread starter tucsonguy
- Start date
I am coming around to believe that perhaps landis sample after #17 was sabotaged.
Landis has absolutely no record of using drugs to help his performance. Certainly one could say he panicked after #16. As they say desparate people do desparate things.
THREE collective gambles on one stage just seems illogical.
Gamble number one: He goes for broke by attacking early on #17. That alone was something that could have backfired and put him in worse shape than he started. Of course he had nothing to lose, but that is where the other two gambles don't make sense.
Gamble number two: Take a drug to help with his performance? Why?
If he has confidence in his ability why risk his entire career on one stage race?
First there is the efficacy of the drug after a bonk. Will the drug work?
Will it make me the same or worse than the day before? Why risk it when he has confidence in his abilities. (he has 3 major race wins under his belt the previous few months...)
Gamble number three: He decides to go for the win. A gamble worse than the previous two because now he is going to be tested.
If he was stupid enough to combine all these gambles to win and knowingly put his career and reputation on the line, humiliating and embarassing himself and his friends and family, then he should be found innocent by reason of insanity and put in a mental hospital.
So many posters and writers are defending this french lab and the so called integrity of the tour organizers. Okay, maybe they are all clean and upright, but that doesn't mean that some people didn't do something corrupt with the sample.
There are many reasons and opportunities for corruption and to put the blame on Landis without exploring other possibilities in light of the 3 gambles and the resulting consequences maybe too hasty.
I dated a Doctor who had a similar hip injury. She put off having surgery for years until the pain was so frequent and intense she couldn't stand it any longer. Landis rode with extreme pain and courage that rivals most anyone that has ever participated in the Tour de France.
Given the chance Landis might come back even stronger than he was this year and simply blow the other riders away. I will take a step back from my previous post and say that I think he is likely innocent and is being framed by a or number of individuals.
I think there are some on here that are just too quick to judge him before all the facts are in. Unfortunately if sabotage occured, it might never be able to be proved and that is what could be so insidious about the whole matter.
I am leaning back to him being innocent. 3 gambles are just to much for me to believe.
tucson guy
Landis has absolutely no record of using drugs to help his performance. Certainly one could say he panicked after #16. As they say desparate people do desparate things.
THREE collective gambles on one stage just seems illogical.
Gamble number one: He goes for broke by attacking early on #17. That alone was something that could have backfired and put him in worse shape than he started. Of course he had nothing to lose, but that is where the other two gambles don't make sense.
Gamble number two: Take a drug to help with his performance? Why?
If he has confidence in his ability why risk his entire career on one stage race?
First there is the efficacy of the drug after a bonk. Will the drug work?
Will it make me the same or worse than the day before? Why risk it when he has confidence in his abilities. (he has 3 major race wins under his belt the previous few months...)
Gamble number three: He decides to go for the win. A gamble worse than the previous two because now he is going to be tested.
If he was stupid enough to combine all these gambles to win and knowingly put his career and reputation on the line, humiliating and embarassing himself and his friends and family, then he should be found innocent by reason of insanity and put in a mental hospital.
So many posters and writers are defending this french lab and the so called integrity of the tour organizers. Okay, maybe they are all clean and upright, but that doesn't mean that some people didn't do something corrupt with the sample.
There are many reasons and opportunities for corruption and to put the blame on Landis without exploring other possibilities in light of the 3 gambles and the resulting consequences maybe too hasty.
I dated a Doctor who had a similar hip injury. She put off having surgery for years until the pain was so frequent and intense she couldn't stand it any longer. Landis rode with extreme pain and courage that rivals most anyone that has ever participated in the Tour de France.
Given the chance Landis might come back even stronger than he was this year and simply blow the other riders away. I will take a step back from my previous post and say that I think he is likely innocent and is being framed by a or number of individuals.
I think there are some on here that are just too quick to judge him before all the facts are in. Unfortunately if sabotage occured, it might never be able to be proved and that is what could be so insidious about the whole matter.
I am leaning back to him being innocent. 3 gambles are just to much for me to believe.
tucson guy
C'mon - smell the roses.tucsonguy said:
He, like the rest of the big GC guys, dopes all the time.
He did not dope hoping not to be tested.
He doped knowing that the masking agents (a little bit of epitestosterone in this case) would mean he tested negative.
The fact that he tested positive means that he stuffed up his masking or took a bit too much testosterone somehow on this occasion.
He believes he is innocent because he knows everyone else is doing it too so why should he be found guilty and Oscar given the glory when Oscar has done it too but masked it better.
How many dopers on Phonak will convince you that Phonak is a particularly bad team?
Who would be able to sabotage his samples?tucsonguy said:
And why?
Why would anyone want to destroy the race,the commercial sponsorship etc.?
It simply defies belief that anyone would have any motive to do that.
On the other hand,it's quite possible that someone who will gain financially,win prestige etc. would cheat,particularly when that rider is at the end of his career as Landis was.
The Landis apologists who think that somehow "the French" have it in for americans are utterly ludicrous.They're paranoid whackos.How self-absorbed do you have to be to think that the average French person devotes even a fraction of a second to americans?
What possible motive would anyone have to frame Landis?
To add to the financial penalty and the disgrace he now has the embarrassment of knowing that the only people who think he's innocent are the total whack-jobs.
Innocent until proven guilty????
Erm do the names Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich mean anything to you, they didn't even test positive, no A sample, no B sample, nothing yet were ejected from the tour as a preemptive strike.
Landis is guilty as sin, he's been caught red handed and he's lashing out at everything and anything, the quotes coming out his camp just speak volumes about his guilt...
I was there for the last week of the tour, on Alpe D'Huez, La Toussaire and the rest I watched the whole thing was gunning for Perreiro and Satre, I was disapointed at the Time Trail when Landis got it, but at the time I was like fair enough the best guy won...
BUT THE BEST GUY DIDN'T WIN DID HE!!!!!
He's a liar and a cheat and he should cut his losses and admit his wrong doing to the world, to the fans and to this great race, serve his ban, and start again...
Erm do the names Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich mean anything to you, they didn't even test positive, no A sample, no B sample, nothing yet were ejected from the tour as a preemptive strike.
Landis is guilty as sin, he's been caught red handed and he's lashing out at everything and anything, the quotes coming out his camp just speak volumes about his guilt...
I was there for the last week of the tour, on Alpe D'Huez, La Toussaire and the rest I watched the whole thing was gunning for Perreiro and Satre, I was disapointed at the Time Trail when Landis got it, but at the time I was like fair enough the best guy won...
BUT THE BEST GUY DIDN'T WIN DID HE!!!!!
He's a liar and a cheat and he should cut his losses and admit his wrong doing to the world, to the fans and to this great race, serve his ban, and start again...
Yes. The proof is obviously there.weremichael said:
It is now up to Flandis to prove his innocence - which I belive will be very hard.
Right now he sounds like a lose canon blaming doing a Tyler Hamilton. Does he really think the public and Wada will fall for that. I think not.
tucsonguy said:
That statement will morph over the next two weeks to, "I think the reason my testosterone levels were high is because I somehow injected testosterone..."
I met Floyd Landis in 2002, when he was riding for USPostal. Being a former NFL player with vast connections to the black market supply line of performance enhancing drugs, I said to Floyd, "You don't need to ride domestique for Lance. Just let me know and I'll bring the power like Scotty."tucsonguy said:
And he said, "No, Martin. I can win without that ****."
If he didn't need it then, why would he need it now?
A failed drug test means nothing. The use of PEDs is only one in a huge number of reasons why an athlete can test positive.
Martin can't use his real name ,for obvious reasons,but I know him well.
He is a man of uncommon good sense,honesty and integrity.Martin has come clean about his own tainted past and has worked tirelessly since his conviction to rehabilitate himself and expose the widespread use of drugs in the NFL.
Martin may have made mistakes in the past,but he admitted it and it takes a big man to do that.
Martin is a very good judge of character and I can verify that he knows Landis well.Martin is too level-headed to bother with conspiracy theories and he doesn't need to make excuses for Landis.I trust Martin's judgement and regardless of the two failed drug tests and the changing reasons for the two positive results...if Martin says Floyd's OK...then he's OK,OK?
He is a man of uncommon good sense,honesty and integrity.Martin has come clean about his own tainted past and has worked tirelessly since his conviction to rehabilitate himself and expose the widespread use of drugs in the NFL.
Martin may have made mistakes in the past,but he admitted it and it takes a big man to do that.
Martin is a very good judge of character and I can verify that he knows Landis well.Martin is too level-headed to bother with conspiracy theories and he doesn't need to make excuses for Landis.I trust Martin's judgement and regardless of the two failed drug tests and the changing reasons for the two positive results...if Martin says Floyd's OK...then he's OK,OK?
I thought it was interesting after receiving the newest Bicyling mag yesterday with Landis on the cover. He makes a comment to Dave Z. that he couldn't be fired from Phonak. The article obviously written well before the TDF.
You just never know how things will turn out.
You just never know how things will turn out.
Hey Martin,
I need to bring the power like Scotty. Can you help me?
I always thought public enemy had it right, but maybe I was wrong.
L
I need to bring the power like Scotty. Can you help me?
I always thought public enemy had it right, but maybe I was wrong.
L
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