2007 Roi Mag-ma Frameset Update



This is all really interesting. Good reading. I bet it would make a good movie too. All I know is that I bought a bike from a guy named George. The bike was paid for, the bike built, and the bike arrived completely as promised. So what gives? I got my frame exactly as ordered. I'm glad that you guys have had a good time trying to figure out who I am. It's absolutely amusing to me because you guys are so off base about who I really am. I told you guys a little about me and all you guys have come up with is info about a guy who apparently is NOT AN ROI DISTRIBUTOR per the info posted. It makes no sense to me. I bought my bike from George, not Andrew. So who's telling the truth? If Andrew is the USA REP why have I not spoken to him once while placing my two frame orders? Does George work for him? Does Andrew work for George or Luca? I really don't know and really don't care. All I know is that I got exactly what I ordered and I am 100% please with the quality. The truth is that ROI Builds a great bike. I would not hesitate is recommending the brand to anyone looking for a good bike to race which was the ultimate purpose of this post. :)

Bro Deal said:
Great job , Klein.

The more I look into this George Ama III character, the more intrigued I get. He is obviously a hustler and quite probably a con man.

In 2002 he was running a business called "The Note Buyers" in Provo, the same Provo, Utah where Vector7 lived. One of his victims posted a report on ripoffreport.com. Interestingly, George talked to this guy on the phone and--get this--assured him that he was a miilionaire. Where have we heard that before? He also claimed to have been investing in notes for more than ten years. George Ama was 31 years old last February (from the results of a marathon he ran in South Carolina) so that would have made him 27 or 28 in 2002 and he would have had to have been buying notes when he was younger than 18. As soon as he got reported to ripoffreports, he decided to give up his business of 10+ years.

What I find most interesting about this is that that deal did not come about by George misrepresenting himself on the Internet, but he talked to the phone for an hour and half with the guy who reported him. Lying about yourself on message boards is one thing, but I think it is another step up to do it while talking. It reenforces my view that George is a cold blooded liar and displays the sort of sociopathy that is required to be con man.

He seems to have bounced through a whole series of small businesses, all of which involve marketing on the Internet.

Maybe I am cynical, but I see his childsafenetwork.org (CSN) as a scam designed to get donations and corporate sponsorship, some of which he could skim off for himself in the form of salary. I also question how successful it is/was. He has a testimonial used by Freedomvoice that Freedomvoice has saved CSN a $100K from its phone operations. That figure in savings would imply that the whole operation had a fair bit of cash flowing through it and beg the question of why George has to sell **** on ebay to make extra money.

Freedomvoice is also interesting. They have crapflooded the Internet with information about their services. Their products are marketed using many different domain names and further information shows up in message forums and Internet press releases. There are so many pages that refer to them that it is difficult to untangle exactly what is going on. My first thought was that the operation appears to be George's Internet marketing tactics writ large.

Many of the of the Freedomvoice sites use testimonials that include quotes from George Ama III. One of their press releases about earnings strangely includese a testimonial by George even though there does not appear to be any reason why it would be included. It is likely that George has/had some sort of relationship with Freedomvoice, probably something other than just being a customer.

Freedomvoice offers phone services like 800 numbers, voicemail, and virtual office solutions. If you have a small, or non-existant, business that needs to have a phone answered by a receptionist then they can provide that. By sheer coincidence, in 2001 George Ama was working for telelawyer.com and his bio notes six years of experience in customer service phone operations prior to coming to work for them. Yes, carbonweasel does appear to have worked at a firm that had something to do with lawyers, but instead of working as a million dollar a year, high powered attorney, he appears to have been running their call service. This coincidence makes me suspect that George worked for freedomvoice before branching out on his own.

George's bio lists a B.S. in accounting from Brigham Young University and an MBA from the University of Utah. Anyone who knows anything about Utah knows that it is rife with scam artists. I have heard, but do not know if it is true, that the FBI's largest white collar crime department is based in Salt Lake City; and it is definitely true that Utah County has more multi level marketing companies than any other county in the entire country.

Freedomvoice has affiliate and distributer offers, but they are not designated exclusive regions. This is similar to many MLM companies where lack of exclusivity makes it impossible to operate a viable distributership. In fact freedomvoice has many ads that seem eerily similar to many work from home scams. There does appear to be some sort of real business that freedomvoice is based on--they have operated since 1996--but again the information is so convoluted that it is difficult to tell exactly what they are doing.

Interestingly, CSN also has an offer for people to set up affiliates in other states, which is one reason why I suspect it to be a scam. I can imagine George doing fund raising in Utah and getting others to do fund raising in their states, kicking up a portion of the money to the mother company. Or maybe that was the plan but it did not work out.

Lastly, his connection to Utah makes him somewhat suspect. He is a mormon and there are a certain portion of mormons that beleive that ripping off non-mormons (gentiles as they call them) is okay. That might be one of the reasons that there are so many MLM companies in Utah, most of which make their money by duping people out of state.
 
Why did you not post his reply? Every case has two sides. My time as an Attorney I have found that scammers don't reply to client complaints. It sounds like the error was made on the end of the person that posted. I have closed lots of Note Deals as a Real Estate Attorney. This is NOT UNCOMMON. This guys explanation is valid.

Now back to bikes :p

A Difficult Lesson Learned...
line.gif


Shannon...I found your report on Note Buyers. The note that was purchased was done so through another party. I was only a finder for these Buyers/Investors [the middle-man]. When your note was purchased, it was up to you to stay in contact with the escrow company your client was dealing with. Did you ever sign a commission agreement with them? If not, your money may still be sitting there and they do not know who to cut the remaing balance to. I was assured that you would be paid if all the paperwork was in order. Obvioulsy, you did not submit the paperwork required to get paid in the deal.

I do not Broker Notes anymore and hope that you accept my sincere apologies for this hard lesson learned. [I too have made the same mistake in the past] You need to make sure that you have all of your submitted paperwork in to the escrow company before closing or you will NOT be paid. This is pretty standard for any escrow deal. Please don't take out your anger on me or any Note Broker for that matter. Blame yourself for not double checking your own paperwork. I wish you the best. I harbour no hard feelings towards you. I wish you success in the paper trade. Best wishes!

George - Provo, Utah
U.S.A.




Bro Deal said:
Great job , Klein.

The more I look into this George Ama III character, the more intrigued I get. He is obviously a hustler and quite probably a con man.

In 2002 he was running a business called "The Note Buyers" in Provo, the same Provo, Utah where Vector7 lived. One of his victims posted a report on ripoffreport.com. Interestingly, George talked to this guy on the phone and--get this--assured him that he was a miilionaire. Where have we heard that before? He also claimed to have been investing in notes for more than ten years. George Ama was 31 years old last February (from the results of a marathon he ran in South Carolina) so that would have made him 27 or 28 in 2002 and he would have had to have been buying notes when he was younger than 18. As soon as he got reported to ripoffreports, he decided to give up his business of 10+ years.

What I find most interesting about this is that that deal did not come about by George misrepresenting himself on the Internet, but he talked to the phone for an hour and half with the guy who reported him. Lying about yourself on message boards is one thing, but I think it is another step up to do it while talking. It reenforces my view that George is a cold blooded liar and displays the sort of sociopathy that is required to be con man.

He seems to have bounced through a whole series of small businesses, all of which involve marketing on the Internet.

Maybe I am cynical, but I see his childsafenetwork.org (CSN) as a scam designed to get donations and corporate sponsorship, some of which he could skim off for himself in the form of salary. I also question how successful it is/was. He has a testimonial used by Freedomvoice that Freedomvoice has saved CSN a $100K from its phone operations. That figure in savings would imply that the whole operation had a fair bit of cash flowing through it and beg the question of why George has to sell **** on ebay to make extra money.

Freedomvoice is also interesting. They have crapflooded the Internet with information about their services. Their products are marketed using many different domain names and further information shows up in message forums and Internet press releases. There are so many pages that refer to them that it is difficult to untangle exactly what is going on. My first thought was that the operation appears to be George's Internet marketing tactics writ large.

Many of the of the Freedomvoice sites use testimonials that include quotes from George Ama III. One of their press releases about earnings strangely includese a testimonial by George even though there does not appear to be any reason why it would be included. It is likely that George has/had some sort of relationship with Freedomvoice, probably something other than just being a customer.

Freedomvoice offers phone services like 800 numbers, voicemail, and virtual office solutions. If you have a small, or non-existant, business that needs to have a phone answered by a receptionist then they can provide that. By sheer coincidence, in 2001 George Ama was working for telelawyer.com and his bio notes six years of experience in customer service phone operations prior to coming to work for them. Yes, carbonweasel does appear to have worked at a firm that had something to do with lawyers, but instead of working as a million dollar a year, high powered attorney, he appears to have been running their call service. This coincidence makes me suspect that George worked for freedomvoice before branching out on his own.

George's bio lists a B.S. in accounting from Brigham Young University and an MBA from the University of Utah. Anyone who knows anything about Utah knows that it is rife with scam artists. I have heard, but do not know if it is true, that the FBI's largest white collar crime department is based in Salt Lake City; and it is definitely true that Utah County has more multi level marketing companies than any other county in the entire country.

Freedomvoice has affiliate and distributer offers, but they are not designated exclusive regions. This is similar to many MLM companies where lack of exclusivity makes it impossible to operate a viable distributership. In fact freedomvoice has many ads that seem eerily similar to many work from home scams. There does appear to be some sort of real business that freedomvoice is based on--they have operated since 1996--but again the information is so convoluted that it is difficult to tell exactly what they are doing.

Interestingly, CSN also has an offer for people to set up affiliates in other states, which is one reason why I suspect it to be a scam. I can imagine George doing fund raising in Utah and getting others to do fund raising in their states, kicking up a portion of the money to the mother company. Or maybe that was the plan but it did not work out.

Lastly, his connection to Utah makes him somewhat suspect. He is a mormon and there are a certain portion of mormons that beleive that ripping off non-mormons (gentiles as they call them) is okay. That might be one of the reasons that there are so many MLM companies in Utah, most of which make their money by duping people out of state.
 
Interesting use of logic. How do you know how much this guy was making? Did you get a copy of his Pay Stub too?

Did you know that Telelawyer.com went PUBLIC in the same year? It is totally possible that he cashed out with some serious money. And if he used that to start Freedom Voice more power to him!!! That means George lives in beautiful Southern California. Isn't that where this Freedom Voice company is located? George is smarter than you all think. He actually used his money to build an even more powerful company. Freedom Voice is a multi-million dollar company. I guess the old saying stands true, "The rich keep getting richer!" Now he owns a Bike Company too? Man, this guy lives the good life. I'm jealous! It sounds like we all are!

Bro Deal said:
Yes, carbonweasel does appear to have worked at a firm that had something to do with lawyers, but instead of working as a million dollar a year, high powered attorney, he appears to have been running their call service. This coincidence makes me suspect that George worked for freedomvoice before branching out on his own.
 
carbonguru said:
Interesting use of logic. How do you know how much this guy was making? Did you get a copy of his Pay Stub too?

Did you know that Telelawyer.com went PUBLIC in the same year? It is totally possible that he cashed out with some serious money. And if he used that to start Freedom Voice more power to him!!! That means George lives in beautiful Southern California. Isn't that where this Freedom Voice company is located? George is smarter than you all think. He actually used his money to build an even more powerful company. Freedom Voice is a multi-million dollar company. I guess the old saying stands true, "The rich keep getting richer!" Now he owns a Bike Company too? Man, this guy lives the good life. I'm jealous! It sounds like we all are!
Pop! Goes the Weasel... :D
 
carbonguru said:
Why did you not post his reply?
For someone who assures us he his not George Ama III you sure are putting in a lot of effort to defend him.

George's rebuttal does not mean much. The term "pathalogical liar" come to mind. He lied his way into the deal, so why should he not lie his way out of it. His rebuttal contradicts the story he told the guy from Alaska. Instead of a millionaire with 10+ years of experience in the "paper trade', I get the distinct impression that he read a get rich quick book on making money as a middle man, tried his hand at a deal, and decided to give it up after screwing some poort schmuck out of $3400. Where is the victim's follow-up saying that he actually got paid.
 
carbonguru said:
George is smarter than you all think. He actually used his money to build an even more powerful company. Freedom Voice is a multi-million dollar company. I guess the old saying stands true, "The rich keep getting richer!" Now he owns a Bike Company too? Man, this guy lives the good life. I'm jealous! It sounds like we all are!
Uh, huh. Freedom Voice was founded in 1996. After cashing out with millions from telelawyer.com--yeah, right--George ended up in Utah. Strangely, Daddy Warbucks had to make extra dough by selling crappy carbon parts on the Internet and bamboozling Alaskans out of a few thousand dollars. But I am sure he was doing that as a hobby, right?

Funny thing is that I will be in Utah Country next week or maybe the week after. If I take a side trip to
1633 N. GrandeView Lane suite 10, Provo, the home office of George Ama III's The Note Buyers what do think I will find? Let's make this multiple choice:

A) An expensive looking office building suited for a millionaire.
B) A dingy apartment building.




 
100miles said:
Looks like his dishonesty permeates everything he does. It's all part of his operation. But he doesn't do it very well. If you're going to cheat in a marathon you don't run the first half in over 2 hours and the second in 54 minutes and set a world record! Just like his crazy stories here, real runners called him out on it. He never learns.
I got a special kick out of his running expoits. I do a little running myself, so it was quite interesting to see his 2:06 time for the first half of a marathon and a 54 minute time for the second half. He goes from an estimated 4:20 time, maybe as much as 4:30 if he slowed dramaticaly for the last half, to a 3:01 after producing a world record time for the second half. The 4:20 - 4:30 is notable because it would be a fairly sucky time, old women and clydesdales get times in that range.

It makes you wonder how he got to the finish. Did he take a cab? Did his wife drive him? The bigger question, of course, is what would make someone cheat in a marathon. I can understand someone contending for a win cheating, but cheating for a recreational run? What's up with that?
 
Bro Deal said:
For someone who assures us he his not George Ama III you sure are putting in a lot of effort to defend him.

George's rebuttal does not mean much. The term "pathalogical liar" come to mind. He lied his way into the deal, so why should he not lie his way out of it. His rebuttal contradicts the story he told the guy from Alaska. Instead of a millionaire with 10+ years of experience in the "paper trade', I get the distinct impression that he read a get rich quick book on making money as a middle man, tried his hand at a deal, and decided to give it up after screwing some poort schmuck out of $3400. Where is the victim's follow-up saying that he actually got paid.
His response to your internet findings seem to focus on how much money George made.. He can't stand that the information you found might suggest George is not a successful millionaire. So much so that he's filled in gaps of information for you. He posted 3x in a row. In the first he only knows of "a guy named George" who he met in a booth. He went from that to knowing George's whole internet history and very passionatly describing how much money George has made. He can't stand for anyone to think George Ama is not wealthy because he IS George Ama of course. He can't work his way past his own narcissism and his ability to keep coming back here — despite the fact that his lies are so transparent and easy to call-out — has become absurdly entertaining.
 
Bro Deal said:
I got a special kick out of his running expoits. I do a little running myself, so it was quite interesting to see his 2:06 time for the first half of a marathon and a 54 minute time for the second half. He goes from an estimated 4:20 time, maybe as much as 4:30 if he slowed dramaticaly for the last half, to a 3:01 after producing a world record time for the second half. The 4:20 - 4:30 is notable because it would be a fairly sucky time, old women and clydesdales get times in that range.

It makes you wonder how he got to the finish. Did he take a cab? Did his wife drive him? The bigger question, of course, is what would make someone cheat in a marathon. I can understand someone contending for a win cheating, but cheating for a recreational run? What's up with that?
He would have looked like the Road Runner in that second half, passing over 1000 people!:D
 
carbonguru said:
Did you know that Telelawyer.com went PUBLIC in the same year? It is totally possible that he cashed out with some serious money.
Telelawyer currently trades under the symbol LGAL in the pink sheets. Its price is $0.0055 (Yes, that is half a cent). It has one full time employee. It currently has no significant operations and is in the process of changing its name to the Undersea Recovery Corporation, getting out of selling phone and web services to law firms and paralegals.

Shortly before George Ama III worked there it had a 153 to 1 reverse stock split. No, that is not a misprint. It is 153. I have never seen that before. At the same time it reverse split the stock, it converted its debt to equity, effectively wiping out any stock holders.

The cash and cash equivalents at the end of the 2001 financial year were $1302. Again that is not a misprint. The company was operating by having the officers pay in capital to make up for the losses being incurred.

The salary paid to the CEO for the 2001, 2002, and 2003 years was $120K, $155K, and $45K. The money paid to the vice president for the same years was $0, $40K, and $47K.

Conclusion: I do not think George got out of telelawyer with any serious money. Hospital birth records show a daughter born to George in Las Vegas, the location of telelawyer, in 2001. We know he was in Provo, Utah in 2002. So my guess would be he got laid off from telelawyer as they scaled down their operations and made his way to Utah. The total time spent at telelawyer was short. Hardly the situation conducive to having riches showered on him, even if the company had the money to pay.
 
Bro Deal said:
Telelawyer currently trades under the symbol LGAL in the pink sheets. Its price is $0.0055 (Yes, that is half a cent). It has one full time employee. It currently has no significant operations and is in the process of changing its name to the Undersea Recovery Corporation, getting out of selling phone and web services to law firms and paralegals.

Shortly before George Ama III worked there it had a 153 to 1 reverse stock split. No, that is not a misprint. It is 153. I have never seen that before. At the same time it reverse split the stock, it converted its debt to equity, effectively wiping out any stock holders.

The cash and cash equivalents at the end of the 2001 financial year were $1302. Again that is not a misprint. The company was operating by having the officers pay in capital to make up for the losses being incurred.

The salary paid to the CEO for the 2001, 2002, and 2003 years was $120K, $155K, and $45K. The money paid to the vice president for the same years was $0, $40K, and $47K.

Conclusion: I do not think George got out of telelawyer with any serious money. Hospital birth records show a daughter born to George in Las Vegas, the location of telelawyer, in 2001. We know he was in Provo, Utah in 2002. So my guess would be he got laid off from telelawyer as they scaled down their operations and made his way to Utah. The total time spent at telelawyer was short. Hardly the situation conducive to having riches showered on him, even if the company had the money to pay.
This just keeps getting better. Time for popcorn. Rebuttal from CGuru please, don't make it half-arsed.
 
I'm amazed at the amount of information you can find on George, who ever he may be. All this information was found just through google?
 
bobbyOCR said:
This just keeps getting better. Time for popcorn. Rebuttal from CGuru please, don't make it half-arsed.
Here is the latest: I called Andrew at Cycling Innovations today, Monday November 13. He has read some of this forum and like most can't believe what General George Vector has to say for himself. Andrew explained that Cycling Innovations (Cyclinginnovations.com) IS THE ONLY ROI rep in the U.S. and that he will post somthing to this forum soon. He has been on the road for two weeks and is very busy but will offer some information. He has never met George but knows about him. Andrew and Luca from Roi in Italy talked on Friday about this mess and neither can believe how George has tainted the Roi name with his crazy rants. The Cycling Innovations site will be updated soon to show the Roi bike line and they are working to bring the product to the U.S. in the proper way. If you doubt any of this just call Andrew at Cycling Innovations. They are on the web. Andrew doesn't work for George. And George doesn't work at all. So Carbonama, the jig is up! Better find a new bike company to attach yourself to barnacleboy. Roi is thru with you. Pop! goes the Guru!
 
great research, guys!

i can't believe he's still here though. how bright is that?:confused:
 
CAMPYBOB said:
great research, guys!

i can't believe he's still here though. how bright is that?:confused:
I don't understand him either. He has some knowledge about cycling and he also has (had) an opportunity to sell some very cool bikes. Roi is a very interesting looking bike and that isn't easy to do given the number of brands out there. I guess that his past dealings made him feel he had to be sneaky now. If he just said I'm George Ama and I have some great Italian bikes for sale then he could just carry on. Instead he has to ride faster, build faster, have more money, bikes and frame sales than anyone you have ever seen. I don't really care if people want to promote their products on the forum, but to come along as a new member who just got a new bike and in a few weeks start selling his whole club the same new frames? I doubt he has the balls to come back now and where are those photos? I know, "I'm not George!! Are you talking to yourself? Are you gay? You must be gay". Right George. Sure. Uh huh.
Poser.
 
Then what is ROIbikeusa.com and where does he get his stuff? Is ROIbikeusa an unauthorized site?

Unfortunately, I think George has tainted the ROI name for me.
 
mrklein said:
If he just said I'm George Ama and I have some great Italian bikes for sale then he could just carry on. Instead he has to ride faster, build faster, have more money, bikes and frame sales than anyone you have ever seen.
Exactly. There are quite a few people in the biz that post to Internet forums and groups. There are Richard Sachs, Todd Heron, Tony Ellsworth, Craig Calfee, and Mark Hickey. Bike shop owners include Sheldon Brown and one of the owners of Vecchios. As long as you are not a tool, you can build a good reputation. You can drive sales a lot better by acting with some honesty and integrity rather than being a weasel who cannot be trusted.

George does not appear to have the brains to do things right, though.
 
wugga said:
Hopefully, this thread will die soon!
I'm sure a new thread will spring forward any day with a totally new, re-energized curious George Ama III. It'll start off innocently enough with a few questions about one frame or another and before you know it, BAM!, he will own the bike company and have ridden the brand new frame to numerous European victories over miles of treacherous terrain and will have "taken the podium" many times over. And if anyone dares to mention this thread, he will pretend to be clueless. "What is this ROIbike.usa that you speak of?....why... I've never heard of such a thing..I ride www.cyfac-usa.com in fact...they sponsor me...yeah... that's the ticket!"