Brian Trdina has two guns!!!



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On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Tom Kunich wrote:

> "BBC3" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:8UYZ9.1021$G83.290@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > Sadly, guns are seldom discharged in self defense, except by police
> officers.
> > Typically guns kill the owner or someone the owner knows.
>
> I guess we shouldn't be surprised about this sort of misinformation from BBC3.
>
Where are your statistics to refute his claim?

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Adam, do you really think that seeing a
movie is education? Perhaps
> that's why you ride bicycles for a living and I'm an engineer.

Non-sequitor: I've worked with some really bright guys who were engineers, and I've worked with some
engineers who I wouldn't let cut my lawn for fear that they'd die from gasoline poisoning.
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]

> >
> Where are your statistics to refute his claim?
>
Waddya mean? We're all still waiting for you to tell us about your extensive experience using guns
which have lead to your well-founded opinions regarding their effectiveness as self-defense tools.
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]>

> I never invoke the liberals. Why do you capitalize that word? Is it because you think them
> important because you think they stole all your money?

Nice dodge.

C'mon, Kyle. Go ahead and admit that you've never actually been around much less fired a gun. Its
not that hard, dude.

The truth will set you free.
 
"Adam Hodges Myerson"

> Then, when I had to watch that train show video your kids were watching, I almost went for your
> guns so I could shoot myself.
>

Don't be dissin' Thomas, motherfucker. That video has allowed me to get laid at least a dozen times.
 
"G. Focker" wrote:
>
> heather halvorson wrote

> >i either need some kind of weapon, or i need to find another job, and i like my job.. heather
>
> OK, ..... you need a weapon?... need a new job? like your job? Okay I give, what do you do for a
> living....

i see i've made it sound more exciting than it is. my job itself is fine, but the location is
sometimes sketchy and lonely, and i regret having a vagina with me at those times. i've been
thinking about getting a gun all month long, but don't really want to. i should just get a new job,
but i've worked there 5 years and it's hard to change.

i know, i know, it ain't yer problem. you were talking about self defense stuff, so i thought i'd
quiz you about some of it, that's all.

heather
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NE%[email protected]...
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> One guy I knew and I were walking across from a mall to his car. There was a group of young guys,
> maybe late teens, who took a fancy to his Raider's jacket and started walking towards him and
> telling him that they wanted it. He was on the other side of the car from me and these guys when
> you would hear his .45 cocking. That sound stopped those smart asses right in their tracks and
> they turned around and walked off. No one ever saw a gun and it was never pointed at anyone.
> Another of those friends-and-relatives murders that never happened.
>
> If he was a real man, like Kyle Legate, he would have let them kick the **** out of him and steal
> his jacket.
>
------------------------------------------------
One time I went to compete in a karate tournament in Oakland. After the tournament outside in the
parking lot a big white guy was hassling a smaller black guy to fight right there in the parking
lot. The black guy just opened the door of his car, reached under his seat for a handgun. I never
saw the gun and I didn't know if he was faking or not, but the white guy got the message, apologized
very quickly and got the heck out of there. Probably both guys were brown or black belts, but when
the gun came into the equation, that was pretty much the end of the story. He played his ace. I
picked that up and that trick saved my butt twice. One time a car load of blacks in Fresno stopped
by my car at the zoo and parking lot. I was sure they were talking about working me over and robbing
me. I just did the same thing. I just reached for a gun I didn't have and after giving me some more
hard looks the driver decided to beat a trail. Another time I was out at Millerton lake near Fresno
and had to do the same thing when a group of thugs pulled up in a truck next to me. I just reached
for a gun I didn't have and acted like I was struggling to get my hands on it and the thugs just
split in a hurry. I mean they just peeled out! This was years ago when there was not as many guns
around. I would never try that today! Faking it nowadays will get you killed. Today, you can bet
that carloads of thugs or gangs have guns and plenty of them!! Fresno was like Beruit!

Bruce
 
"z" <[email protected]> wrote
> "Brian Trdina" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > The most well-reasearched evaluation of the effects of gun posession on crime rates was done by
> > John Lott (a University of Chicago Economist),

Correction: Lott is not a University of Chicago economist--his book was published by University of
Chicago Press. This may matter only to those who are care about the reputation of the University of
Chicago Econ department, but to them it is an important distinction.

> note that he has in the last week admitted to having a Usenet pseudonym under which he engaged his
> critics in debates regarding his research, and also tried to bolster his defense of his
> questionable survey. Posting under a pseudonym is not a problem, but using the pseudonym to engage
> in academic battles with your critics rather than doing so openly sure is, and attempting to pose
> your alter ego as independent corroboration is definitely not cool. He denied it for a while but
> finally owned up, which must have taken guts.

Well, I don't know how much it could have taken. He was pretty much busted. The posting IP addresses
were the same, and the pseudonym was made up from the initial letters of his kids' names. The
curious can check this google search:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22john+lott%22+%22mary+rosh%22
 
"Brian Trdina" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> research that led to its publication. Of couse, its much simpler for his critics to demagogue the
> issue than it is to try to understand and subsequently employ sound statistical methods to analyse
> the available
data.
> Its also remarkable that some of the country's leading medical journals
have
> allowed themselves to be the tools by which poor data analyses masking as 'science' are presented
> to the public. Its a telling commentary on how
far
> seemingly rational people (scientists, no less) will go to cling to the litany that they've
> established for themselves as the truth.

I question how having more guns would lower the "crimes of passion" homocides. Most homocides are by
friends or family, the data noted by heather in another post:

"heather halvorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm#intimates
>
> from that source:
> ---------------------------------------
> Victim/Offender Relationship, 1976-2000 Percent Stranger 14.0% Spouse 7.1% Other family 7.8%
> Boyfriend/Girlfriend 4.3% Other Acquaintance 33.0% Relationship undetermined 33.8%
> -----------------------------------------
> Homicides by relationship and weapon type, 1990-2000 Relationship of victim to offender Gun Knife
> Blunt object Force Other Husband/Ex-husband 71 % 25 % 2 % 1 % 2 % Wife/Ex-wife 69 13 4 7 6
> Boyfriend 47 45 3 2 4 Girlfriend 57 19 5 11 8 Nonintimate 63 18 5 7 6
> -------------------------------------------
>
> heather
 
I wrote:
> Well, I don't know how much it could have taken. He was pretty much
busted.
> The posting IP addresses were the same, and the pseudonym was made up from the initial letters of
> his kids' names. The curious can check this google search:
> http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22john+lott%22+%22mary+rosh%22

BTW, using that pseudonym, Lott reviewed his own book for Amazon.com and gave it (surprise) five
stars. The review includes this testimonial: "...Lott writes very well. I have loaned out my copy a
dozen times." Alas, only 22 out of 31 people found the review helpful. That must have hurt.

Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/A2YEJJ5M2WQK4J/1/re
f=cm_cr_auth/t/002-1732204-4828000
 
> > heather halvorson wrote
i regret
> having a vagina with me at those times. i've been thinking about getting a gun all month long, but
> don't really want to. i know, i know, it ain't yer problem. you were talking about self defense
> stuff, so i thought i'd quiz you about some of it, that's all.

Firstly, I've got to say, I've seen many a set of testicles wasted on men, so I wouldn't count on a
vagina being a weakness...... I hear the flames coming already..... Tom Kunich is probably closer to
right with the stats (yeah Tom, that killed me)than me, I'm basing my opinion on where I work, what
I've seen / done and so on, not national stats collected by others, so I'll be the first to admit
that my view is from only one angle, and a jaded one at that. Although I do teach this very topic
for a major weapons maker (to cops though). But if it helps you out, here's what I give to my wife
and three daughters, OC 15% on thier key chains. I tell them to walk with the spray in thier hand if
alone and have thier key ready for what ever door they use, stay in the light, watch thier
surroundings and once in the car, lock the door. If they were to get attacked, I'd tell them to
Spray the person in the face and RUN screaming the whole way. And by the way, I rarely carry a gun,
almost never bring a pistol home. Not saying there's anything wrong with people who do either. Most
assault victims I meet are victims of panic, the most effective weapon you should have is between
your sholders, although I've meet many an unarmed person........... Cheers, FOCKER
 
"G. Focker" wrote:
>
> Firstly, I've got to say, I've seen many a set of testicles wasted on men, so I wouldn't count on
> a vagina being a weakness...... I hear the flames coming already..... Tom Kunich is probably
> closer to right with the stats (yeah Tom, that killed me)than me, I'm basing my opinion on where I
> work, what I've seen / done and so on, not national stats collected by others, so I'll be the
> first to admit that my view is from only one angle, and a jaded one at that. Although I do teach
> this very topic for a major weapons maker (to cops though). But if it helps you out, here's what I
> give to my wife and three daughters, OC 15% on thier key chains. I tell them to walk with the
> spray in thier hand if alone and have thier key ready for what ever door they use, stay in the
> light, watch thier surroundings and once in the car, lock the door. If they were to get attacked,
> I'd tell them to Spray the person in the face and RUN screaming the whole way. And by the way, I
> rarely carry a gun, almost never bring a pistol home. Not saying there's anything wrong with
> people who do either. Most assault victims I meet are victims of panic, the most effective weapon
> you should have is between your sholders, although I've meet many an unarmed person...........
> Cheers, FOCKER

thanks! i'll try to buy some spray tonite. although robert's hairspray-powered homemade potato
rocket gun *almost* was the winner...

off to the crappy job right now, h
 
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Brian Trdina wrote:

> "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]
>
> > >
> > Where are your statistics to refute his claim?
> >
> Waddya mean? We're all still waiting for you to tell us about your extensive experience using guns
> which have lead to your well-founded opinions regarding their effectiveness as self-defense tools.
>
Keep waiting. Others have jumped in with reasoned arguements, and I don't feel the need to add to
them. You do seem to harbour anomosity against people who believe differently from you on this
issue. Why don't you go out and shoot something, it might make you feel better.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Brian Trdina wrote:

> C'mon, Kyle. Go ahead and admit that you've never actually been around much less fired a gun. Its
> not that hard, dude.
>
I have never fired a gun, but how is that supposed to (in)validate my opinion? You have never
been to the middle east, yet I'm sure you have an opinion on the illegal war that is about to
tear it apart.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
heather halvorson wrote:
> thanks! i'll try to buy some spray tonite. although robert's hairspray-powered homemade potato
> rocket gun *almost* was the winner...

Too bad. Screw concealed weapons. No one would mess with you if you were carrying this spud bazooka
around: http://mitglied.lycos.de/tuwang/membas/kartoffe.htm

This next one is a bit too big to be carried around (it weighs 70 lbs) but the website shows videos
of it in action shooting a 20 oz. plastic soda bottle: http://www.spudtech.com

Note that hairspray doesn't work well in cold temperatures. As a bonus, you could use a high voltage
stun gun as the ignition system. The mind reels with the possibilities.
 
Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> I have never fired a gun, but how is that supposed to (in)validate my opinion? You have never
> been to the middle east, yet I'm sure you have an opinion on the illegal war that is about to
> tear it apart.

...illegal because it's just about oil, right? Or because Noam Chomsky, Susan Sontag / Sarandon, et
al say it's illegal?
 
[email protected] (G. Focker) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Tom Kunich is probably closer to right with the stats (yeah Tom, that killed me)than me, I'm
> basing my opinion on where I work, what I've seen / done and so on, not national stats
> collected by others, so I'll be the first to admit that my view is from only one angle, and a
> jaded one at that.

The point is that anyone that uses a gun to protect themselves these days WILL NOT call the police
unless it is absolutely necessary. Why is that? Because many police and a majority of the DA's will
try to prosecute them on any possible grounds.

For instance, a friend of mine owned a gas station in Oakland, CA, and went in late at night to pick
up the receipts at closing time. As he entered the station he noted that his employee was not in the
office and the door to the station was open. He walked around back thinking to find the employee
turning off the air or something and there he found his employee laying in a pool of blood. As he
pulled out his .45 (Oakland doesn't allow licenses to carry on ANY grounds but he had an Alameda
County license to carry) a large man started running at him carrying a water pipe. He barely got the
gun up in time and shot what turned out to be a student from the local high school in the leg,
dropping him in his tracks as .45's are wont to do. The police made out a report and the DA began
filing all sorts of charges against him which he had to defend against despite the evidence of an
employee that was assaulted and seriously injured by this thug. He was then sued by the parents of
the thug who claimed that he was a football star who would never be able to run again. So trying to
protect his own life and that of an employee with a fractured skull he ended up losing his gas
station to the legal costs to defend himself in court.

Gee, I'd sure be right there to call the cops if I just chased away some thug by brandishing a gun.
And I'd bet that you would do exactly the same thing.

So, no, your stats are only from those cases where there was a bad outcome and don't contain any of
the cases where a homeowner brandished a gun and frightened away a burglar or whatever. And yes,
that makes your police stats quite inaccurate and there are plenty of studies to show that. And a
couple of books as well.

Oh, BTW, before he lost the station his new employee was assaulted with intent to murder again. The
employee was big enough and fast enough to save his own life and capture the thug - who turned out
to be a member and the lead to the solution of the Zebra Murders.

As I said before, although I own guns I never carry them because I'm big enough to take care of
myself. But many people aren't.

I expect that if Dan Connelly wanted to carry a pistol on him if he regularly carried large sums of
money that it wouldn't be any of my business. The implication of the Liberals that anyone that
carries a gun is up to no good is nothing but propaganda.
 
Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> > "BBC3" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:8UYZ9.1021$G83.290@sccrnsc04...
> > >
> > > Sadly, guns are seldom discharged in self defense, except by police officers. Typically guns
> > > kill the owner or someone the owner knows.
> >
> > I guess we shouldn't be surprised about this sort of misinformation from BBC3.
> >
> Where are your statistics to refute his claim?

Perhaps you ought to just read the thread which already contains the correct statistics. I know that
it is difficult for you to avoid your usual knee jerk reaction and simply tell me that I'm wrong,
but when someone publishes a link and you purposely ignore it you look like what you are.
 
On 30 Jan 2003 12:17:11 -0800, Tom Kunich wrote:
>I learned some martial arts and learned a technique that is so unbelievable that most people don't
>even believe it exists until it is pulled on them. [...] Losing their vision and balance for a
>couple of seconds usually showed them that they really didn't want to fight me after all.

A poke in the eye, is it?
 
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