Did Ullrich retire because nothing changed?

[cyclingheroes]

German Eurosport titles the Ullrich retirement part of the d'Hont story:

In 2007 still epo doping at T-Mobile?
http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/12112007/73/2007-epo-doping-t-mobile.html

 

[wolfix]

JU will never be allowed to return to racing. He is now the poster boy of doping. If JU is allowed to return, then they have to allow all the other riders. Big can of worms.
And who knows if he is really talented? He came from the E German camp of cycling, and we know what they stood for.

JU was abused by the sport that used him for their own benefit. Then he became disposable.

JU only followed the rules of professional cycling, and the rules stated you doped to win. Anyone who disagrees with this is naive. The sin of cycling is not the doping, but the way they treated JU and the others.

 

[Bro Deal]

And who knows if he is really talented? He came from the E German camp of cycling, and we know what they stood for.

Let me guess. It stood for same thing as the U.S. national team, where Chris Carmichael injected riders with dope.

 

[wolfix]

Let me guess. It stood for same thing as the U.S. national team, where Chris Carmichael injected riders with dope.

Obviously you are not familiar with the E German program in athletics.
Of course not.
You came on board when LA started winning. And with your obsession of doping among the cyclists, I am amazed you would even make the post you did.

 

[Bro Deal]

Obviously you are not familiar with the E German program in athletics.
Of course not.
You came on board when LA started winning. And with your obsession of doping among the cyclists, I am amazed you would even make the post you did.

Sorry, bro, but I am coming up on twenty years as a serious cyclist, and I still fail to see the difference between the U.S. national team and the national teams of other countries. They all had doping programs.

 

[limerickman]

Agreed BD.

If we were to list the US competitors caught doping and/or the attempted coverups we'd be here till doomsday.

There is one difference between E German doping and US doping.
E German doping program was instigated by the State - the US doping is centred around money.

 

[snood]

Agreed BD.

There is one difference between E German doping and US doping.
E German doping program was instigated by the State - the US doping is centred around money.

Maybe you have it backwards. In E Germany benefits went to winning programs. For US the 1984 Olympics was for national pride.

 

[wolfix]

Agreed BD.

If we were to list the US competitors caught doping and/or the attempted coverups we'd be here till doomsday.

There is one difference between E German doping and US doping.
E German doping program was instigated by the State - the US doping is centred around money.

But most doping programs originated in the world today are from the E german programs. [Soviet too] After the fall of the wall, doping increased in sports as the designers of these programs spread thru the world. Think of a East german cyclist and tell me of a good one that did not dope........ JU is not the best cyclist E Germany produced. His results pale in comparision to the sprinters of the 70's/80's.
The US program of doping exploded when we got a coach from Poland who knew of these ways.
It was the E germans[soviets included] who was the first to use blood doping ........That was the 70's....... The US did not use it until 83-84. Steroid use was used by the behind the wall countries years before it was used throughout sports. I met several Olympic wrestlers from that area who who so pumped up in the early 70's we couldn't believe it.


several years ago Heidi Krieger, a former East German athlete opened up......

As many as 10,000 East German athletes were involved in a state-sponsored attempt to build a country of 16 million into a sports power rivaling the United States and the Soviet Union, recent trials and documents of the East German secret police have revealed.

And when comparing the US doping to Europes...This is the big distinction........ The E Germany athletes were forced to dope. The sporting acheivments in E Germany was based in the doping culture. That did not occur in America till at least 10 years later after the wall came down.

 

[jhuskey]

JU will never be allowed to return to racing. He is now the poster boy of doping. If JU is allowed to return, then they have to allow all the other riders. Big can of worms.
And who knows if he is really talented? He came from the E German camp of cycling, and we know what they stood for.

JU was abused by the sport that used him for their own benefit. Then he became disposable.

JU only followed the rules of professional cycling, and the rules stated you doped to win. Anyone who disagrees with this is naive. The sin of cycling is not the doping, but the way they treated JU and the others.

I agree he will not return to racing at least not as before. As far as I know he is not interested in pro racing as a participant and has moved on. I agree he was abused by the sport and especially by some elements of the German media.
The only riding he has been doing,as far as I have heard, is on his mtb recently in Utah.
I will however attest to the fact that he is a talented cyclist.
Lets face it,the few that were considered legends are gone and it will take a a long time to re-estabilsh the magic that existed.
At least thats the way I feel.

 

[snood]

It was the E germans[soviets included] who was the first to use blood doping ........That was the 70's....... The US did not use it until 83-84. Steroid use was used by the behind the wall countries years before it was used throughout sports. I met several Olympic wrestlers from that area who who so pumped up in the early 70's we couldn't believe it.


several years ago Heidi Krieger, a former East German athlete opened up......



And when comparing the US doping to Europes...This is the big distinction........ The E Germany athletes were forced to dope. The sporting acheivments in E Germany was based in the doping culture. That did ot occur in America till at least 10 years later after the wall came down.

No, professional cyclists used blood doping in the 1960s.

The US Olympic organization synthesised dianabol in the 1950s to compete with Germans and Russians using testosterone. The Eastern women were great because steroids work even better for women than for men.

 

[wolfix]

And it made them SEXY !!!!!!!! there is nothing better then a woman with a beard..........

 

[wolfix]

I agree he will not return to racing at least not as before. As far as I know he is not interested in pro racing as a participant and has moved on. I agree he was abused by the sport and especially by some elements of the German media.
The only riding he has been doing,as far as I have heard, is on his mtb recently in Utah.
I will however attest to the fact that he is a talented cyclist.
Lets face it,the few that were considered legends are gone and it will take a a long time to re-estabilsh the magic that existed.
At least thats the way I feel.

The part of all what is happening in cycling that bothers me is the fact the riders are taking the fall........ Doping was so ingrained in cycling that it was not even considered cheating by anyone involved.
The media has always been of a predatory nature. And in JU case, they ate him alive. Granted he was the high profile rider who had scandal all around him, but he was also the one along with Armstrong that gave the media something to write about.
Cycling has no real media stars at this point. Boonen maybe,,, It's the GT's that get the most public attention.

 

[limerickman]

Maybe you have it backwards. In E Germany benefits went to winning programs. For US the 1984 Olympics was for national pride.

The benefits accrued to E Germany was that GDR used the wins acheived by it's athletes as a basis for saying that the Communist System was better than Western democratic system.
In material terms, E German athletes did not gain from their wins.

Carl Lewis and the rest of those dopers did benefit in material terms.
Lewis and the rest of those dopers earned huge commerical fees.

 

[jhuskey]

And it made them SEXY !!!!!!!! there is nothing better then a woman with a beard..........

Leave my ex out of this. It brings back bad memories.

 

[snood]

The benefits accrued to E Germany was that GDR used the wins acheived by it's athletes as a basis for saying that the Communist System was better than Western democratic system.
In material terms, E German athletes did not gain from their wins.

Not true. The glorius athletes and coaches had much better lives. Communism was for the masses not the elite.

 

[wolfix]

Not true. The glorius athletes and coaches had much better lives. Communism was for the masses not the elite.

True....... There was a interview of the 2 E German sprinters in Velo-news way back in the days of friction shifting......
It was almost a given that one of these 2 would gold medal in the velodrome sprints. They said that the one that gold medaled would be given a private apartment and a car. [And have a week off]

 

[limerickman]

But most doping programs originated in the world today are from the E german programs. [Soviet too] After the fall of the wall, doping increased in sports as the designers of these programs spread thru the world.

But your country had an active doping programme as far back as 1984.

Dr Wade Exum said that the program was so widespread that positive results for US athletes were deliberated covered up.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/news/2003/04/16/usoc_exum_ap/

Think of a East german cyclist and tell me of a good one that did not dope........ JU is not the best cyclist E Germany produced. His results pale in comparision to the sprinters of the 70's/80's.
.

I would have said that JU was the best road rider produced from Germany.

The track riders?
I neve followed track back then - but if you say these guys were good, I'll accept that.

It was the E germans[soviets included] who was the first to use blood doping ........That was the 70's....... The US did not use it until 83-84. Steroid use was used by the behind the wall countries years before it was used throughout sports. I met several Olympic wrestlers from that area who who so pumped up in the early 70's we couldn't believe it.
.

Blood doping was used by the Finnish athletic team in the 1970's.
Blood doping (the removal of blood to be reinstated later) wasn't illegal back then.
That doesn't mean I condone it either.

And when comparing the US doping to Europes...This is the big distinction........ The E Germany athletes were forced to dope. The sporting acheivments in E Germany was based in the doping culture. That did not occur in America till at least 10 years later after the wall came down.

An East German athlete in the 70/80's had no choice but to dope if they wanted to compete at international level.
GDR issued a directive in 1973 to put in place a doping program for all athletes.

The sporting achievements in your country too, Wolf were tainted.
Alexi Grewal admitted that he had doped for the 84 Olympics.
Subsequently we now know that there was a consistent coverup policy
in US sports during after 1984 Olympics.

Both countries in both countries are equally culpable.

 

[limerickman]

Not true. The glorius athletes and coaches had much better lives. Communism was for the masses not the elite.

Relative to other East German, I agree, athletes were better off.
However, the East Germans were not allowed to earn huge amounts of money and any prizemoney earned was handed over to the state.
Those Trebants were really a step up!
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dtrebant%26y%3D0%26fr2%3Dtab-web%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501&w=500&h=349&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F1373%2F530849278_c87cf5b8a9_m.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Flaepplehertzog%2F530849278%2F&size=98.3kB&name=530849278_c87cf5b8a9.jpg&p=trebant&type=jpeg&no=8&tt=15&oid=405c18a38ee44bd0&fusr=laepplehertzog&***=trebant&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Flaepplehertzog%2F&ei=UTF-8&src=p






Very interesting : Jurgen Groebler, the UK's rowing coach, worked as part of the East German setup.
He was hired by the UK in 1991.
He said that he couldn't believe how poorly funded and how badly treated the British rowers were, compared to E German rowers.
He said that for a guy like Steve Redgrave to have to work two jobs while training (and winning) gold medals at 84 and 88 Olympics would have been unheard of in E Germany.

 

[Bro Deal]

They said that the one that gold medaled would be given a private apartment and a car. [And have a week off]

Wow. An apartment and a Lada. That's a lot better than millions in endorsement money. I'm surprised we did not have mass defections of athletes to the Eastern block.

 

[poulidor]

Wow. An apartment and a Lada. That's a lot better than millions in endorsement money. I'm surprised we did not have mass defections of athletes to the Eastern block.

A lada? Only for athletes who won more than 1 gold medal. Others received the wonderful Traban, easy to carry on your bike!