Did Ullrich retire because nothing changed?

[jhuskey]

Some guys lost their job after they rode in that pink jersey, others had police raiding their property... One of them is hunted by paparazzi and others who call themselves journalists for more than a year now.

I do have one, but its not pink, its yellow. Can't tell you where it is, to dangerous.

@jhuskey: Are you sure its safe to hang it on my wall ?
Have a good day and don't drink too much, I will take care of the beer myself

Thanks, I just got back from the football game. Sat in the sky box for this game,went to dinner and had a great day.
.............on the wall? Better than off the wall!
It's all good if you believe,pink ,yellow polka dot etc.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Thanks, I just got back from the football game. Sat in the sky box for this game,went to dinner and had a great day.
.............on the wall? Better than off the wall!
It's all good if you believe,pink ,yellow polka dot etc.

Well Ullrich now confirms Armstrong doped....... what more is there to discuss ?
_____________

Rudy Pevenage has indicated that Jan Ullrich may have been using doping products when he won the Tour de France in 1997. Focus magazine reported Monday that in a secretly-taped conversation between ex-Team Telekom soigneur Jef d'Hont and Ullrich mentor Pevenage, the former noted Ullrich came to the team as a good rider and did what the others did.
"Yes, and he won the Tour with it too, didn't he?" said Pevenage, which the magazine interpreted as meaning that Ullrich used EPO (Erythropoietin) to help him win the Tour.

According to the magazine, a meeting at d'Hont's house on March 16 of this year, Pevenage admitted to having advised Ullrich and others on blood doping. He said, about "30 to 40 percent" of the riders were informed of the practice, but later they all knew about it. "You gave up a half-litre of blood three weeks before. And it is well-stored. Good, you feel a little weak for the first two or three days, but then you start to recover... You feel a lot better and then at that point you get back that extra half-litre," Pevenage described the process.

Even Lance Armstrong's name came up in the conversation. "I don't understand why Jan could never beat the other one [Armstrong - ed.]," Pevenage said, and wondered about his blood values. "One day someone told me the American is unbelievable. He starts the Tour with a hematocrit value of 46 and at the end his still has 46. How can he do that?" questioned Pevenage. "With blood doping," suggested d'Hont.

The article pointed to evidence uncovered by Belgian authorities during a search of Pevenage's house last year that he and Ullrich were clients of Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. The investigators allegedly found travel documents for "several" short trips to Madrid.

One of those trips may have occurred during the Giro d'Italia 2006. German doping experts Angel Alonso and Werner Franke, and Franke's attorney, Michael Lehner, have all given sworn statements saying that chief Spanish investigator Enrique Gomez Bastida told them of a visit by Ullrich to Fuentes in the spring of 2006, the magazine reported. According to their statements, "As to the question whether Ullrich was in Spain this year, Herr Gomez Bastida answered yes. Herr Gomez Bastida gave the date of May 10, 2006." That was a rest day during the Giro, when the peloton travelled from Belgium to Italy Eight days later Ullrich won the time trial in Pontedera.

Ullrich has repeatedly denied knowing Fuentes or having used doping products.

 

[Rolfrae]

Almost WBT, it was Pevenage and D'Hont having the conversation.

Well Ullrich now confirms Armstrong doped....... what more is there to discuss ?
_____________

Rudy Pevenage has indicated that Jan Ullrich may have been using doping products when he won the Tour de France in 1997. Focus magazine reported Monday that in a secretly-taped conversation between ex-Team Telekom soigneur Jef d'Hont and Ullrich mentor Pevenage, the former noted Ullrich came to the team as a good rider and did what the others did.
"Yes, and he won the Tour with it too, didn't he?" said Pevenage, which the magazine interpreted as meaning that Ullrich used EPO (Erythropoietin) to help him win the Tour.

According to the magazine, a meeting at d'Hont's house on March 16 of this year, Pevenage admitted to having advised Ullrich and others on blood doping. He said, about "30 to 40 percent" of the riders were informed of the practice, but later they all knew about it. "You gave up a half-litre of blood three weeks before. And it is well-stored. Good, you feel a little weak for the first two or three days, but then you start to recover... You feel a lot better and then at that point you get back that extra half-litre," Pevenage described the process.

Even Lance Armstrong's name came up in the conversation. "I don't understand why Jan could never beat the other one [Armstrong - ed.]," Pevenage said, and wondered about his blood values. "One day someone told me the American is unbelievable. He starts the Tour with a hematocrit value of 46 and at the end his still has 46. How can he do that?" questioned Pevenage. "With blood doping," suggested d'Hont.

The article pointed to evidence uncovered by Belgian authorities during a search of Pevenage's house last year that he and Ullrich were clients of Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. The investigators allegedly found travel documents for "several" short trips to Madrid.

One of those trips may have occurred during the Giro d'Italia 2006. German doping experts Angel Alonso and Werner Franke, and Franke's attorney, Michael Lehner, have all given sworn statements saying that chief Spanish investigator Enrique Gomez Bastida told them of a visit by Ullrich to Fuentes in the spring of 2006, the magazine reported. According to their statements, "As to the question whether Ullrich was in Spain this year, Herr Gomez Bastida answered yes. Herr Gomez Bastida gave the date of May 10, 2006." That was a rest day during the Giro, when the peloton travelled from Belgium to Italy Eight days later Ullrich won the time trial in Pontedera.

Ullrich has repeatedly denied knowing Fuentes or having used doping products.

 

[limerickman]

Well Ullrich now confirms Armstrong doped....... what more is there to discuss ?
_____________

Rudy Pevenage has indicated that Jan Ullrich may have been using doping products when he won the Tour de France in 1997. Focus magazine reported Monday that in a secretly-taped conversation between ex-Team Telekom soigneur Jef d'Hont and Ullrich mentor Pevenage, the former noted Ullrich came to the team as a good rider and did what the others did.
"Yes, and he won the Tour with it too, didn't he?" said Pevenage, which the magazine interpreted as meaning that Ullrich used EPO (Erythropoietin) to help him win the Tour.

According to the magazine, a meeting at d'Hont's house on March 16 of this year, Pevenage admitted to having advised Ullrich and others on blood doping. He said, about "30 to 40 percent" of the riders were informed of the practice, but later they all knew about it. "You gave up a half-litre of blood three weeks before. And it is well-stored. Good, you feel a little weak for the first two or three days, but then you start to recover... You feel a lot better and then at that point you get back that extra half-litre," Pevenage described the process.

Even Lance Armstrong's name came up in the conversation. "I don't understand why Jan could never beat the other one [Armstrong - ed.]," Pevenage said, and wondered about his blood values. "One day someone told me the American is unbelievable. He starts the Tour with a hematocrit value of 46 and at the end his still has 46. How can he do that?" questioned Pevenage. "With blood doping," suggested d'Hont.

The article pointed to evidence uncovered by Belgian authorities during a search of Pevenage's house last year that he and Ullrich were clients of Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. The investigators allegedly found travel documents for "several" short trips to Madrid.

One of those trips may have occurred during the Giro d'Italia 2006. German doping experts Angel Alonso and Werner Franke, and Franke's attorney, Michael Lehner, have all given sworn statements saying that chief Spanish investigator Enrique Gomez Bastida told them of a visit by Ullrich to Fuentes in the spring of 2006, the magazine reported. According to their statements, "As to the question whether Ullrich was in Spain this year, Herr Gomez Bastida answered yes. Herr Gomez Bastida gave the date of May 10, 2006." That was a rest day during the Giro, when the peloton travelled from Belgium to Italy Eight days later Ullrich won the time trial in Pontedera.

Ullrich has repeatedly denied knowing Fuentes or having used doping products.

So if this story is correct - Ullrich pedalling in the Giro, flew on the rest day to Spain (Madrid, presumably??).

What a way to spend a rest day in a grand tour, eh?

 

[Rolfrae]

So if this story is correct - Ullrich pedalling in the Giro, flew on the rest day to Spain (Madrid, presumably??).

What a way to spend a rest day in a grand tour, eh?

I seem to remember Basso looking mighty ****** that he hadn't won that time trial. Wonder if he knew at the time that they were sharing the same blood doc?

 

[Cobblestones]

I seem to remember Basso looking mighty ****** that he hadn't won that time trial. Wonder if he knew at the time that they were sharing the same blood doc?

But would he really get blood during this visit? If he was storing for the TdF, wouldn't it be more probable that he only exchanged or even extracted blood, such as 1.5 liters fresh blood out and 1 liter old blood in? Why would he tap the TdF reserves in May for a Giro TT? The effect would never last to the TdF.

 

[thunder]

But would he really get blood during this visit? If he was storing for the TdF, wouldn't it be more probable that he only exchanged or even extracted blood, such as 1.5 liters fresh blood out and 1 liter old blood in? Why would he tap the TdF reserves in May for a Giro TT? The effect would never last to the TdF.

because, come day 21, you tap all the surplus in your system, plus a little more.

After the final stage you fly to Madrid and dump it back in the fridge deposit.

So no loss.

Did he retire at any time that Giro? I think he went to Milan.

 

[jhuskey]

But would he really get blood during this visit? If he was storing for the TdF, wouldn't it be more probable that he only exchanged or even extracted blood, such as 1.5 liters fresh blood out and 1 liter old blood in? Why would he tap the TdF reserves in May for a Giro TT? The effect would never last to the TdF.

EPO blood is also used for early season recovery training. In that respect the benefits do last.
Not to make accusations,I am just pointing this out.

 

[thunder]

EPO blood is also used for early season recovery training. In that respect the benefits do last.
Not to make accusations,I am just pointing this out.

he probably had a shot of EPO immediately after getting tapped after the Giro to accelerate the recovery. He could have stayed offline for 3 days or just used the protease detergent to dissolve the EPO proteins if tested.

 

[Cobblestones]

because, come day 21, you tap all the surplus in your system, plus a little more.

After the final stage you fly to Madrid and dump it back in the fridge deposit.

So no loss.

Did he retire at any time that Giro? I think he went to Milan.

But wouldn't that seriously mess with his recovery from the Giro?

Argh, I don't know. Ferrari will have figured it out.

 

[thunder]

But wouldn't that seriously mess with his recovery from the Giro?

Argh, I don't know. Ferrari will have figured it out.

I do not think a little less will destroy recovery, especially with EPO.

It seems it is perfectly normal to dump blood during or after Dauphine.

The last 2 years I think Vino dumped blood while in the Dauphine, and the year before, so did Landis.

That could be the only explanation for their curiously subpar performances on crucial stages where they had displayed race hegemony and were on GC calculations 0 explanation, running on 3-5% less fuel.

 

[wolfix]

whiteboytrash.......Well Ullrich now confirms Armstrong doped....... what more is there to discuss ?

_____________

"With blood doping," suggested d'Hont.
]

Nice try.....It actually stated that they did not know..... "suggested" is not confirmation of anything....... And it was not JU who suggested it.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I do not think a little less will destroy recovery, especially with EPO.

It seems it is perfectly normal to dump blood during or after Dauphine.

The last 2 years I think Vino dumped blood while in the Dauphine, and the year before, so did Landis.

That could be the only explanation for their curiously subpar performances on crucial stages where they had displayed race hegemony and were on GC calculations 0 explanation, running on 3-5% less fuel.

I remember on one stage in the 2006 Dauphine Landis was actually hanging onto the team car he was that sick ! He kept waving the cameras away.... he finished the stage but it was very obvious what was going on !

...although that doesn't explain Armstrong... or did he dump after the Dauphine ? I did read that he used to re-transfuse in the helicopter when been flown off the mountain tops back to the hotel....

 

[thunder]

So if this story is correct - Ullrich pedalling in the Giro, flew on the rest day to Spain (Madrid, presumably??).

What a way to spend a rest day in a grand tour, eh?

mitigated cos they were in Belgium right? So they all jumped on a plain. He took a detour, filled, spent an extra 3-4 hours in transit and an hour in a surgery. So an extra 5 hours.

But everyone had a transfer. Just not the transfer Basso and Ullrich were getting.

 

[thunder]

I remember on one stage in the 2006 Dauphine Landis was actually hanging onto the team car he was that sick ! He kept waving the cameras away.... he finished the stage but it was very obvious what was going on !

...although that doesn't explain Armstrong... or did he dump after the Dauphine ? I did read that he used to re-transfuse in the helicopter when been flown off the mountain tops back to the hotel....

no, Armstrong was different.

Landis had iShares pressure, sponsor reupping. He rode a big program. Won Cali, won Paris Nice.

Phonak came in flying cos they needed a new sponsor.

Armstrong in his last 4 years, and basically all the years, had one peak.

He could quarantine blood all offseason. So, he did not have to concern himself with sub volumes, in his peak training, and taper phase, when he was doing quality and intensity efforts.

So, he would have ridden the months up to Dauphine on full volume. The sequestered blood would have had preservatives, but it would have been swapped in, and swapped out, like a dry cleaners, so no blood could go stale in the fridge deposit.

I also would have thought he had a spare transfusion or two, in reserve, just in case something went awry. Like with Sinkewitz unable to use his two transfusions, in 2006, there is no way Armstrong would have relied on complete success without a backup and contingency.

No, don't think he would have taken the blood in the helicopter. Think it would take + 30 minutes to get the blood transfused, and he would have wanted to get in the hotel and get the massage. Ofcourse, all could be done in the air.

Interesting hypothesy.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Thanks, I just got back from the football game. Sat in the sky box for this game,went to dinner and had a great day.
.............on the wall? Better than off the wall!
It's all good if you believe,pink ,yellow polka dot etc.

On the wall!

Did you receive the pdf lfile ast week? I only grap pdf copies as I do not intend to pay any money for magazines that are making money with destroying other people's reputation by publishing stories in which somebody said that somebody else said that somebody said something...

 

[limerickman]

I remember on one stage in the 2006 Dauphine Landis was actually hanging onto the team car he was that sick ! He kept waving the cameras away.... he finished the stage but it was very obvious what was going on !

...although that doesn't explain Armstrong... or did he dump after the Dauphine ? I did read that he used to re-transfuse in the helicopter when been flown off the mountain tops back to the hotel....

Correct re Landis : he was dying in that stage of the Dauphine - I remember watching that stage on ES

 

[thunder]

Correct re Landis : he was dying in that stage of the Dauphine - I remember watching that stage on ES

that stage might have been "strategically placed".

The deposit might have been made to a like minded doctor with a doping philosophy, any Dr Mabuses in the area (yes, the french doping Mabuse was a soigneur).

I would always think why, why they dumped in the middle of a stage race. It must have been convenient, next to a doctors surgery.

Two or three days to the finish of the Dauphine should have not been prohibitive to deposit blood, and get the renewed volume prior to the Tour. Or could it. We know on the final year of Armstrong, he team went AWOL on the first mtn stage on about stage 6 thu 8, whenever it was, Kloden lost to Weening in a sprint.

Then, those riders dumped blood after the Dauphine. Then they re-infused either first rest day, or prior to first (major) mtn stage (mtn top finish).

So, perhaps, Dauphine - Tour, is not enough, to get volume up to max. I do hear it takes up to 3 months to completely restore volume, but basically 6 weeks, the final 1 or 2% takes much longer to come, whereas most of the deficit is restored in accelerated growth.

 

[limerickman]

that stage might have been "strategically placed".

The deposit might have been made to a like minded doctor with a doping philosophy, any Dr Mabuses in the area (yes, the french doping Mabuse was a soigneur).

I would always think why, why they dumped in the middle of a stage race. It must have been convenient, next to a doctors surgery.

Two or three days to the finish of the Dauphine should have not been prohibitive to deposit blood, and get the renewed volume prior to the Tour. Or could it. We know on the final year of Armstrong, he team went AWOL on the first mtn stage on about stage 6 thu 8, whenever it was, Kloden lost to Weening in a sprint.

Then, those riders dumped blood after the Dauphine. Then they re-infused either first rest day, or prior to first (major) mtn stage (mtn top finish).

So, perhaps, Dauphine - Tour, is not enough, to get volume up to max. I do hear it takes up to 3 months to completely restore volume, but basically 6 weeks, the final 1 or 2% takes much longer to come, whereas most of the deficit is restored in accelerated growth.

That particular stage is worht recalling because both Landis and, from memory, Menchov both went through a very bad phase.
Both riders "lost" their legs that day : and from memory menchov had been going particularly well.
or else I'm confusing the race/rider identity - but I'm almost sure it was menchov who struggled that day too.

 

[thunder]

That particular stage is worht recalling because both Landis and, from memory, Menchov both went through a very bad phase.
Both riders "lost" their legs that day : and from memory menchov had been going particularly well.
or else I'm confusing the race/rider identity - but I'm almost sure it was menchov who struggled that day too.

why tho Lim.

Are we conspiracy theorists?

I think we have presented a credible thesis concerning what may have occurred. When Sinkewitz was travelling from Koln to Freiburg after the Tour prologue, or wherever, to get blood, Ulle flying from Belgium, to Madrid, to wherever in Italy in the Giro transfer day.

They do things during tours that would not immediately be assumed.