Do any of you share this fear?

[Piotr]

I admit I sometimes skipped a workout or added an extra rest day when my legs weren't feeling great. I was very focused on making/improving power-duration and if the legs weren't 'right' I'd bail. Retrospectively (!), in 2004 in particular that thinking lead me to a pre-season CTL around 70. I ended up with some decent results and decent 20-30MP but, relative to my norms, I had no endurance. The season turned into a slow fade ....

The above looks like a passage from my last year's training diary . Since this thread seems to deal with feeling and attitude towards training I'd like to reflect on something pertinent that occurred to me only this year. Namely, I no longer consider myself tired if I only feel tired. I consider myself tired only when I can't perform as I expected because of fatigue. I have had quite a few great "tired" workouts since I came to this realization, even "breakthrough" ones.

 

[Pendejo]

The above looks like a passage from my last year's training diary . Since this thread seems to deal with feeling and attitude towards training I'd like to reflect on something pertinent that occurred to me only this year. Namely, I no longer consider myself tired if I only feel tired. I consider myself tired only when I can't perform as I expected because of fatigue. I have had quite a few great "tired" workouts since I came to this realization, even "breakthrough" ones.

Yes, that is an interesting contrast that you make, Piotr, between feeling tired and really being tired. And clearly you can have one without the other, in both directions. In truth, I almost always feel tired prior to going out on the bike. If I let that stop me my bike would never get used. On the other hand, there are those days when I feel tired in a much more bone-deep way, and I've learned to recognize this and respect it - and on those days I give myself permission not to go out, or to go out for just a stroll on the bike.

I'm still not sure about the wisdom of abandoning a planned workout because you discover that it's an off day. I see the argument for doing so. But, to my way of thinking, during a race you're not going to quit no matter what, so I just finish my workout no matter what. I call it "pain practice." On an off day you're going to be in pain but just not going as fast as you hoped. But you're still practicing being in pain, and I think that's valuable in itself.

And despite all I've read in this forum over the past couple of years, and despite my adapting my training because of it to include SST work, I still can't quite convince myself that time spent on the bike (other than warmup and cooldown) where I'm not at least moderately to extremely uncomfortable is doing anything at all to help me in time trials (which is the only racing I do). I'm not at all trying to argue the point. I'm just reporting what my intuition is telling me, and my intuitions are usually pretty good (though, obviously, that in no way counts as evidence).

 

[perryr]

I sometimes try to get myself pumped up for a hard interval session, and usually end up feeling apprehensive.

It was recomended that I try to "not think about it". Know my sets, plan my route, then go do the work. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Also, finish the sets, even if I have to back off some (unless of course I am truly cooked).

 

[Steve_B]

And despite all I've read in this forum over the past couple of years, and despite my adapting my training because of it to include SST work, I still can't quite convince myself that time spent on the bike (other than warmup and cooldown) where I'm not at least moderately to extremely uncomfortable is doing anything at all to help me in time trials (which is the only racing I do). I'm not at all trying to argue the point. I'm just reporting what my intuition is telling me, and my intuitions are usually pretty good (though, obviously, that in no way counts as evidence).

I think that you need to consider what specifically are you afraid of. What makes you stressed about these? I am not a psychologist but I think of these issues as a bit like onions - with layers and layers that you need to peel back to get to the core.You've given us some insight but I think that the hard detective work needs to be done by you. Then, if you feel up to it, you need to come up with a work around.

Back a few years ago I was very focused on TT's and I overdosed on 2x20's, to the point that I started to fear them and I did everything that I could for a couple of years after that to avoid them, which is pretty hard to do when you accept the general higher intensity/less time training paradigm that most of us follow. In any case, I came to realize that my fear ultimately came from the stress I was putting my mind and body thorough for 20 minutes at a time, and really not anything else. So I found ways of getting around that, mostly decreased intensity for longer periods of time or the same intensity broken into smaller periods of time. I would then stitch together the chunks so that I convinced myself that the full effort isn't so bad after all. Nothing revolutionary, but if I hadn't figured out what the core of the problem was it might have been a total waste of time.

 

[Steve_B]

I'm still not sure about the wisdom of abandoning a planned workout because you discover that it's an off day. I see the argument for doing so. But, to my way of thinking, during a race you're not going to quit no matter what, so I just finish my workout no matter what. I call it "pain practice." On an off day you're going to be in pain but just not going as fast as you hoped. But you're still practicing being in pain, and I think that's valuable in itself.

And despite all I've read in this forum over the past couple of years, and despite my adapting my training because of it to include SST work, I still can't quite convince myself that time spent on the bike (other than warmup and cooldown) where I'm not at least moderately to extremely uncomfortable is doing anything at all to help me in time trials (which is the only racing I do). I'm not at all trying to argue the point. I'm just reporting what my intuition is telling me, and my intuitions are usually pretty good (though, obviously, that in no way counts as evidence).

Reading this again, I'm wondering if your heart is really into this. You will always be uncomfortable doing this type of training and racing, but you are supposed to get accustomed to it. I don't know if it gets any easier, just more familiar. That the opposite seems to be taking place makes me think that something else is going on. Perhaps some other things in your personal life? Perhaps it's time to take a break until you get your motivation back.

 

[bigbadwoulfe]

I have this fear too but only when I'm feeling a bit lazy

This morning, I was scheduled to perform at least 1.5 hours of SST ride. I backed out. Why? Because I lacked sleep, my legs are still killing me from the 260 TSS ride I did last saturday (my first time on an a long endurance ride), and my bike is not feeling good too. I just went back to bed and slept some more

My general guideline is, if I'm feeling lazy, that means the ride will suck big time.

 

[Ade Merckx]

Straight up, I literally just bailed on a set of Vo2maxer's (4mins x 6). I was really struggling on the 5th one and I should have known really coz the power dropped off pretty sharpish after the 2nd one. I've been feeling tired for the last few days but I'd had a day off so i thought I'd be ok. Nevermind I'll be back. I find it hard not to worry about a scheduled VO2max workout even though I can usually get through them. 2/3 x 20's are never a problem and SS rides are nearly always a pleasure

 

[Piotr]

Straight up, I literally just bailed on a set of Vo2maxer's (4mins x 6). I was really struggling on the 5th one and I should have known really coz the power dropped off pretty sharpish after the 2nd one. I've been feeling tired for the last few days but I'd had a day off so i thought I'd be ok. Nevermind I'll be back. I find it hard not to worry about a scheduled VO2max workout even though I can usually get through them. 2/3 x 20's are never a problem and SS rides are nearly always a pleasure

Perhaps you weren't too tired, you just didn't have enough base (CTL) to begin VO2max training. 24-25 min at VO2max is a tall order any time of year. I could be wrong, but I brought it up since I believe that was my issue last spring. This year I'm waiting until my CTL is above 85. Also, I found that the day after a day off is rarely the best training day. Just a thought.

 

[rmur17]

Straight up, I literally just bailed on a set of Vo2maxer's (4mins x 6). I was really struggling on the 5th one and I should have known really coz the power dropped off pretty sharpish after the 2nd one. I've been feeling tired for the last few days but I'd had a day off so i thought I'd be ok. Nevermind I'll be back. I find it hard not to worry about a scheduled VO2max workout even though I can usually get through them. 2/3 x 20's are never a problem and SS rides are nearly always a pleasure

maybe we should declare this the "confession" thread. it's good for the soul I hear

 

[Piotr]

maybe we should declare this the "confession" thread. it's good for the soul I hear

Today, I planned on 3 x 25 min @ 95% FTP... I chickened out and did 2 x 25 plus 1 x 10 min @ 100% FTP.

 

[Yojimbo_]

I also backed out of my 3X20s @ 94% FTP today. I started my warmup, and then bailed.

I just couldn't bear the thought of doing this again. I sure hope this feeling passes soon.

 

[Steve_B]

I also backed out of my 3X20s @ 94% FTP today. I started my warmup, and then bailed.

I just couldn't bear the thought of doing this again. I sure hope this feeling passes soon.

I get like this when I've been doing the same workoutt too much. You might consider changing things up, like do 2x20's or 4x10's at a higher intensity or a couple of weeks of L5 with L2 recovery rides or something. Give yourself some variety.

I guess I'm fortunate that I got this "period of doubt" over with in December. One part of my brain was writing checks (or for the non-Yanks, cheques ) that the other part could not cash, if you know what I mean. I bailed on a lot of workouts.

The past 6 weeks have been different. I have been very, very focused, more than I usually am at this time of year. Some of it has come from looking at the power meter files of one of my competitors for some races that we both did last year. This guy won a lot of stuff last year and I was lucky to just finish with the group, if that actually happened. He has the benefit of a much higher FTP/kg than me but also the luxury of not having to sacrifice himself early on to protect the interests of the "star" riders on his team. (He has no team and rides solo and I do not.) In any case, I got a lot out of that exercise. Once I saw what he was doing for power, I thought it reasonable and practical to approach that (I've been close before) and I've had those numbers in my head ever since. It would be tough to get down to his weight though and I'm still going to be a "worker bee" for my team leaders so I'm trying to not set my expectations up too high either.

The other thing is that I know that threshold takes "a long time" to build. Weeks and weeks and months and months, depending upon how much improvement you are seeking. That and signs of good progress have motivated me to keep my nose to the grindstone this winter. Doesn't work with everything I do in life but this time it does.

Everyone has something that motivates them. This winter, this is what is working for me.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Thanks for sharing your experience Steve.

I'm also wanting to build threshold this winter. I'm going to take a few days off, and try to pick it up again over the weekend.

I keep telling myself it's only a few more weeks until I can get outside for some variety, but then, we got another 20 cm snow last night - 3rd big storm in 7 days, and we're buried here.

 

[swampy1970]

I always find that a goal, a target, something that really motivates you beyond anything else is almost crucial to any training that involves anaerobic work whilst riding alone. Training without a goal just becomes another ride. Another ride often gets put off when it's cold and wet or you're feeling a little sore but not really that bad from the last hard session.

If you have such a goal with a definable "end result" that's ambitious but realistic, then you're way over half way there. Doing the training when you have that "carrot" aint that bad, even if that carrot is something as simple and quantifiable as losing weight...