On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 17:16:08 GMT,
[email protected] (Ray
Fischer) was understood to have stated the following:
>David W. Poole, Jr. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] (Ray Fischer)
>
>>>>>>You're attacking my view,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am attacking your pretense that you get to speak for God.
>>>>>
>>>>>You do not.
>>>>
>>>>And you do?
>>>
>>>I don't claim to.
>>
>>Nor do I. But I read enough to know that the Bible doesn't condone
>>abortion, and it appears rather obvious that it condemns it.
>
>Where's your Bible quote?
Like you told me before when I asked you for a quote, look it up.
>Or are you just parroting the sleazy lies of others?
No, I'm reading the Bible. You should try it sometime.
>>>>>>>>Biology taught me that it takes human sperm to fertilize a human egg.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That much is mostly true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or at least it would require manipulation, or a sperm donor with 23
>>>>>>chromosomes.
>>>>>
>>>>>But a fertilized egg isn't a human.
>>>>
>>>>Yes it is.
>>>
>>>Stop lying. According to milenia of human legal and social tradition
>>>across the world, the life of a human being starts at birth.
>>
>>How long after the mother begins having contractions do you believe an
>>abortion is an adequate option?
>
>Now you're trying to change the subject because you cannot distinguish
>between the issue of whether a fetus is a human being and when it's
>appropriate (not "adequate") to do an abortion.
No, I've made the statement numerous times when a human being is
created. You have done nothing to prove otherwise, and are again
attempting to change the subject.
Let's put it this way, since you like to pose rhetorical questions.
Mary conceived out of wedlock; would you have aborted Jesus's fetus?
Consider Matthew 25:31-46 before answering.
>>>>>>A human is called many things during the period of it's existence.
>>>>>>Zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, adolescent, adult, and corpse,
>>>>>>to name a few.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't forget sperm and egg.
>>>>
>>>>Since sperm and egg cells are germs, they aren't humans.
>>>
>>>1) They are not germs.
>>>2) You're an idiot.
>>
>>Main Entry: sperm
>>1 a : SEMEN b : a male gamete
>>2 : a product (as spermaceti or oil) of the sperm whale
>>
>>Main Entry: gam·ete
>>: a mature male or female germ cell usually possessing a haploid chromosome set and capable of initiating formation of a new diploid individual by fusion with a gamete of the opposite sex
>
>Note: "Germ cell" not "germ: a microorganism causing disease".
Still a germ cell.
>And your entire argument rests on the premise that YOU get to decide
>what is or is not a human being, ignoring thousands of years of legal
>and social tradition that says different.
Interesting; the entry for gamete above states "capable of initiating
formation of a new diploid individual by fusion with a gamete of the
opposite sex." Seems the dictionary makes the distinction of when life
begins disagrees with you.
>>>>>Oh, wait, you think that you're the equal of God and that YOU get to
>>>>>decide what is or is not a human being, regardless of law, tradition,
>>>>>or society.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're just a self-centered control freak with delusions of godhood.
>>>>
>>>>You differ from this how?
>>>
>>>I don't make up my own rules and expect others to obey.
>>
>>Seems like you do to me.
>
>Seems like you're a dishonest idiot.
Again your hypocrisy is noted. Here's some scripture for you: Matthew
7:1-5. Verses 3-5 should be particularly noteworthy; you should study
and understand them before moving on to "advanced" concepts.
>>>> Provide a biblical reference that says
>>>>abortion is ok.
>>>
>>>Numbers 5 describes a forced abortion. And there is what Jesus said
>>>in Matthew 5:39-41 and there's Exodus 20:17.
>>>
>>>All of which deny you ANY claim over a woman's body.
>>
>>So you think Exodus 20:17 supersedes Exodus 20:13?
>
>You kill every day. Why do you expect people to obey the Bible when
>you do not?
Now you're accusing me of being a murderer? Thanks for your continued
demonstration of your detachment from reality.
>Of course, you're probably too "intelligent" to realize that the
>Bible wasn't written in English and that a correct translation of
>Exodus 20:13 is "Don't murder" and that abortion is not and has never
>been murder.
I understand well that the Bible wasn't written in english. That's why
I have numerous translations of it, including a parallel Bible, as
well as an interlinear and a number of hebrew, greek, and aramaic
language lexicons.
>>>> Let me try some smaller words and
>>>>see if it's clearer to you. A human sperm cell is not a human; it's a
>>>>germ.
>>>
>>>LOL!
>>
>>Look it up.
>>
>>>1) The word you're trying to think of not "germ" but "gamete" or
>>> perhaps "germ cell".
>>
>>The word I thought up is referenced above.
>
>You're still an idiot.
The argument you provide in support of your belief of my idiocy is
compelling. Thanks for showing me the errors of my ways. </sarcasm>
>>>2) An embryo is no more a human than is an egg. The point which you
>>> were too "intelligent" to notice was that YOUR opinion about what
>>> marks the start of a human being isn't the truth. It's just the
>>> opinion of an egotistical idiot.
>>
>>Ditto, with the exception of the first sentence.
>
>It's not my opinion, asshole. I look at the laws and social
>traditions of humanity going back thousands of years and acroos the
>world. Birth has been and is the even which marks the start of a
>human being's life.
>
>We celebrate BIRTHdays. Not "conceptiondays".
Several times in the Bible individuals curse the moment of their
conception. Seems to me that they knew when they became human, and
when life began. As less information flowed in those days than does
now, it makes a statement that they were more informed than you, which
is, in part, why their stories are recorded in God's word, and not
yours.
