Nokian Tires



"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > news:<Yrmbc.33$zh.30@lakeread01>...
> > > > Stephen Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > (snip)
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone making a book on this? Not the outcome, but the chances of
> > > > > Dan actually following through. ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Who cares? I just want this discussion to continue! This is one of

the
> > > > funniest damn threads I've seen in this NG in a "long" time. I

almost
> > puked
> > > > from laughing when I read "Bill's" response to Dan "Capt VO2"

Volker.
> > I'd
> > > > love to see what qualifies as "too technical" for JD in light of

this:
> > > > http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/mtbstories/. I nominate this route

for
> > the
> > > > "smoke fest." The thought of it makes me wince. I figure it's

probably
> > a
> > > > good test of aerobic capacity, endurance, and technical skill.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > Well, there we have it. A location chosen by a third party. Whaddya

say
> > Vo2lker?
> >
> > I'm all for a challenge

> <snip whining and tap dancing>
> > So what do you say?
> >
> > Dan V

>
> I'll see you at the Lake City, CO Post Office at 0900 on July 15th
> 2004. Back your smack, Vo2lker.


I'll tell you what. I will be making a trip to Nevada late summer or fall.
I had planned to ride Bootleg Canyon and a few other nearby trails. Altitude
in this area is under 4000 feet I think, so it should be fair in this
regard.
How about doing the challenge in this area? It won't answer the Florida
technical issue, but it should deal pretty well with who can smoke who, on
a X-country trail.

Even if we can both agree on Bootleg Canyon, the Florida challenge should
still be part of this challenge. Its different riding, its much harder than
you think, and its fun too.

And, as a matter of fact, yesterday I just had my first opportunity to ride
with some SS riders at a local trail--Quiet Waters Park. One was on a rigid
ss bike, the other had a front shock. The guy on the fully rigid bike
flatted right behind me early in the ride, from landing to hard off a drop
off, but beyond that, he did pretty well on the trail. They were both able
to get around at speeds that were respectable, but whenever a big straight
opened up, I could disappear pretty much at will ( in my big chain ring),
and then hold this advantage as long as I wanted to in the twisty sections.
I was surprised they did as well as they did, and Quiet Waters would be the
ideal trail to show why a SS bike can be a disadvantage in Florida riding.
Between roots, drops, fast straight sections, and ultra twisty sections with
roots and rocks, speeds need to vary from 7 mph to 25 mph on your own
power( without downhill coasting assistance). My guess is that you guys will
do fine whenever the trail keeps you limited to a smaller range, like 7mph
to 14mph, or 12 to 19, etc. ...but here in Florida, you are going to get
penalized for insufficient range.
But hey, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong :)

Dan V
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I'm all for a challenge, but considering I live at sea level, this would not
> be my first choice. Their are plenty of good mountains in Carolina, Georgia,
> and many other states with big vertical within a ride, that do not impact on
> altitude the way this one would...Just going skiing is an issue at the top
> of Vail ( even at the base) , for the first 4 to 6 days a person who lives
> at sea level, is up this high.
> If you live at five or 6000 feet elevation or above, then just enjoy your
> red blood cell advantage at the lower altitude mountains. You'll need it
> :)
>
> Come to think of it, as technically competent as you claim to be, and as
> devastating as you are supposed to be on a ss bike, why not do the challenge
> at one of the South Florida trails, like Fort Pierce or Quiet
> Waters....Afterall, you are the one who started the talking down ****, so as
> godly as you must be, you should not really need the high altitude mountain
> advantage to keep up with me. And, in one fell swoop, we could put to bed
> the whole issue about whether S Florida trails ARE technical or not. If you
> smoke me on them, and and say they are easy, you will get a full apology
> from me, on the newsgroup, etc....If I drop you on one of these trails,
> repeatedly, then you can either blame it on these trails being too technical
> for your ss bike, or you can blame it on my being faster than you.
>
> So what do you say?
>
> Dan V


I nominate this post for the "Weasel of the Year" award.

CC
 
"Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > I'm all for a challenge, but considering I live at sea level, this would

not
> > be my first choice. Their are plenty of good mountains in Carolina,

Georgia,
> > and many other states with big vertical within a ride, that do not

impact on
> > altitude the way this one would...Just going skiing is an issue at the

top
> > of Vail ( even at the base) , for the first 4 to 6 days a person who

lives
> > at sea level, is up this high.
> > If you live at five or 6000 feet elevation or above, then just enjoy

your
> > red blood cell advantage at the lower altitude mountains. You'll need

it
> > :)
> >
> > Come to think of it, as technically competent as you claim to be, and as
> > devastating as you are supposed to be on a ss bike, why not do the

challenge
> > at one of the South Florida trails, like Fort Pierce or Quiet
> > Waters....Afterall, you are the one who started the talking down ****,

so as
> > godly as you must be, you should not really need the high altitude

mountain
> > advantage to keep up with me. And, in one fell swoop, we could put to

bed
> > the whole issue about whether S Florida trails ARE technical or not. If

you
> > smoke me on them, and and say they are easy, you will get a full apology
> > from me, on the newsgroup, etc....If I drop you on one of these trails,
> > repeatedly, then you can either blame it on these trails being too

technical
> > for your ss bike, or you can blame it on my being faster than you.
> >
> > So what do you say?
> >
> > Dan V

>
> I nominate this post for the "Weasel of the Year" award.


**** off corvis.
I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting by actually challenging a big
talker to a ride, and all you want to do is make more NG snivelling and
empty talk. You can show up for Quiet Waters on a ss bike, and and have a
shot at dealing with the original post. Right now the only weaseling is
coming from you.

Dan V

> CC
 
Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> had this to say
news:[email protected]

>
>> > > > G
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > The phrase "I could care less" is meant to be sarcastic, got it?
>> >
>> > Billshut!
>> >

>>
>> Double billshut.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>

>
> The original proper phrase is British in origin, the second one is
> native only to the USA, and since you folks beat the British back all
> those years ago it's been an American tradition to butcher the Queen's
> english (language) ever since.


ABSOFUCKINLUTELY!!!
 
"Jonesy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "mojo deluxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > "BB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > On 4 Apr 2004 11:52:37 -0700, JD wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll see you at the Lake City, CO Post Office at 0900 on July 15th
> > > > 2004. Back your smack, Vo2lker.
> > >
> > > Dan's "we'll see on my trip out west" turned to "I can't get more than
> > > weekends off" about the time this challenge thing was brought up.

Prolly
> > > just a coincidence, of course. ;-)
> > >

> > Looks like I'll have to go in his place then. I figure if we can stay on
> > fairly level, semi technical asphalt, I can give JD quite the challenge

for
> > a couple hundred yards.

>
> I wouldn't last that long. Seeing is believing, my friend.
>

Hence the couple hundred yards thing. Did I mention the head start?
 
Dan Volker wrote:
> "Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I nominate this post for the "Weasel of the Year" award.

>
> **** off corvis.
> I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting by actually challenging
> a big talker to a ride, and all you want to do is make more NG
> snivelling and empty talk. You can show up for Quiet Waters on a ss
> bike, and and have a shot at dealing with the original post. Right
> now the only weaseling is coming from you.
>
> Dan V
>
>> CC


(

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary weasel = 2 : to escape from or
evade a
situation or obligation -- often used with out
 
Dan Vo2 says:

>**** off corvis.


Hardly polite...

>I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting


Now that you've started it.

>You can show up for Quiet Waters on a ss bike, and and have a
>shot at dealing with the original post.


Since CC's last post dealt with a furked knee, that's big of you ;-P
 
"Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan Vo2 says:
>
> >**** off corvis.

>
> Hardly polite...
>
> >I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting

>
> Now that you've started it.


No, I did not start it.
I was making a post which was not slamming anyone, and which was about some
equipment I use...Without provocation, JD and a few of his circle jerk
buddies decided they could slam the area I ride in, even though they are
completely clueless and ignorant about what riding this area would actually
be like.
Given this, I don't see much reason for me to be polite to corvus---even if
the stupid piece of **** hurt himself. Next thing we know, he'll shoot off
his mouth in a ginmill somewhere, and he and his wheel chair will get pasted
all over one of the walls ( read this as metaphor, I doubt he's actually in
a wheelchair).

Dan V
 
"Penny S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan Volker wrote:
> > "Corvus Corvax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I nominate this post for the "Weasel of the Year" award.

> >
> > **** off corvis.
> > I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting by actually challenging
> > a big talker to a ride, and all you want to do is make more NG
> > snivelling and empty talk. You can show up for Quiet Waters on a ss
> > bike, and and have a shot at dealing with the original post. Right
> > now the only weaseling is coming from you.
> >
> > Dan V
> >
> >> CC

>
> (
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary weasel = 2 : to escape from or
> evade a
> situation or obligation -- often used with out



Nice of you to bring this up. This started with JD trashing what I called
"the technical riding in South Florida".
I know some on this NG have trouble following a thread, but if anyone is
trying to escape or evade, it would be JD. And with his little weasel
friends trying to help shift the challenge from being about technical riding
in Florida, to high altitude riding in Colorado, you really do have to start
with the beginning posts.

JD came out of the blue trashing my riding---I was not saying **** to him.
If anybody needs to put up or shut up, its JD for starting this. And I'll be
happy to put money on this.

Dan V

>
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:nFocc.1620$%[email protected]...
>
> "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Dan Vo2 says:
> >
> > >**** off corvis.

> >
> > Hardly polite...
> >
> > >I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting

> >
> > Now that you've started it.

>
> No, I did not start it.
> I was making a post which was not slamming anyone, and which was about

some
> equipment I use...Without provocation, JD and a few of his circle jerk
> buddies decided they could slam the area I ride in, even though they are
> completely clueless and ignorant about what riding this area would

actually
> be like.
>

I have a good idea of what riding would be like there.
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > "tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/mtbstories/. I nominate this route

> for
> the
> > > > > "smoke fest." The thought of it makes me wince. I figure it's

> probably
> a
> > > > > good test of aerobic capacity, endurance, and technical skill.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > Well, there we have it. A location chosen by a third party. Whaddya

> say
> > > Vo2lker?
> > >
> > > I'm all for a challenge

> <snip whining and tap dancing>
> > > So what do you say?
> > >
> > > Dan V

> >
> > I'll see you at the Lake City, CO Post Office at 0900 on July 15th
> > 2004. Back your smack, Vo2lker.

>
> I'll tell you what.

<snip yet more tap dancing>

I'll be in Lake City. If you are not, it will only prove what you really are.

JD
 
"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > > > > G
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The phrase "I could care less" is meant to be sarcastic, got it?
> > >
> > > Billshut!
> > >

> >
> > Double billshut.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >

>
> The original proper phrase is British in origin, the second one is
> native only to the USA, and since you folks beat the British back all
> those years ago it's been an American tradition to butcher the Queen's
> english (language) ever since.


Shillbut!

Shaun aRe - Master Butcher.
 
"mojo deluxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:nFocc.1620$%[email protected]...
> >
> > "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Dan Vo2 says:
> > >
> > > >**** off corvis.
> > >
> > > Hardly polite...
> > >
> > > >I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting
> > >
> > > Now that you've started it.

> >
> > No, I did not start it.
> > I was making a post which was not slamming anyone, and which was about

> some
> > equipment I use...Without provocation, JD and a few of his circle jerk
> > buddies decided they could slam the area I ride in, even though they are
> > completely clueless and ignorant about what riding this area would

> actually
> > be like.
> >

> I have a good idea of what riding would be like there.


Just how do you figure you can have any idea, without having ridden here.
The trail I was talking about is at Quiet Waters Park. either you have
ridden it, or you have no idea about it.

Dan V

>
 
"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > "tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/mtbstories/. I nominate this

route
> > for
> > the
> > > > > > "smoke fest." The thought of it makes me wince. I figure it's

> > probably
> > a
> > > > > > good test of aerobic capacity, endurance, and technical skill.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, there we have it. A location chosen by a third party.

Whaddya
> > say
> > > > Vo2lker?
> > > >
> > > > I'm all for a challenge

> > <snip whining and tap dancing>
> > > > So what do you say?
> > > >
> > > > Dan V
> > >
> > > I'll see you at the Lake City, CO Post Office at 0900 on July 15th
> > > 2004. Back your smack, Vo2lker.

> >
> > I'll tell you what.

> <snip yet more tap dancing>
>
> I'll be in Lake City. If you are not, it will only prove what you really

are.


Lets see..it'll prove you have a big mouth, no knowledge of Florida riding,
that you will keep running your mouth as long as you can get away with it
.....what elese am I missing?

Dan V
 
Dan V says:

>....what elese am I missing?


Oh, Danny Bhoy,
The bikes, the bikes are caa-aalling.....
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "mojo deluxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:nFocc.1620$%[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Dan Vo2 says:
> > > >
> > > > >**** off corvis.
> > > >
> > > > Hardly polite...
> > > >
> > > > >I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting
> > > >
> > > > Now that you've started it.
> > >
> > > No, I did not start it.
> > > I was making a post which was not slamming anyone, and which was about

> > some
> > > equipment I use...Without provocation, JD and a few of his circle jerk
> > > buddies decided they could slam the area I ride in, even though they

are
> > > completely clueless and ignorant about what riding this area would

> > actually
> > > be like.
> > >

> > I have a good idea of what riding would be like there.

>
> Just how do you figure you can have any idea, without having ridden here.
> The trail I was talking about is at Quiet Waters Park. either you have
> ridden it, or you have no idea about it.
>

Re-read my post.....out loud, and slowly.

I live in Louisiana, which is why I have a GOOD IDEA of what riding WOULD BE
like there.
 
"mojo deluxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XAwcc.4410$%[email protected]...
>
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "mojo deluxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:nFocc.1620$%[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Dan Vo2 says:
> > > > >
> > > > > >**** off corvis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hardly polite...
> > > > >
> > > > > >I'm trying to get past Internet bullshitting
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that you've started it.
> > > >
> > > > No, I did not start it.
> > > > I was making a post which was not slamming anyone, and which was

about
> > > some
> > > > equipment I use...Without provocation, JD and a few of his circle

jerk
> > > > buddies decided they could slam the area I ride in, even though they

> are
> > > > completely clueless and ignorant about what riding this area would
> > > actually
> > > > be like.
> > > >
> > > I have a good idea of what riding would be like there.

> >
> > Just how do you figure you can have any idea, without having ridden

here.
> > The trail I was talking about is at Quiet Waters Park. either you have
> > ridden it, or you have no idea about it.
> >

> Re-read my post.....out loud, and slowly.
>
> I live in Louisiana, which is why I have a GOOD IDEA of what riding WOULD

BE
> like there.


There are trails 40 miles to the south, and 60 miles to the north, which
are NOTHING like Quiet Waters. The soil, the technical difficulty, the tree
cover, the way the trail twists and flows, the way the obstacles have been
hand built in to the course, everything is radically different.
There is no possible way you could know what a specific trail like this is
like, just because you ride in Louisiana.
If I had been making generalizations to the NG, like yours, about trails
in Colorado or Nevada, we'd be able to hear the screaming and howling from
the regulars, even without an Internet connection.....

Dan V



>
 
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:29:42 -0400, Dan Volker wrote:

> Just how do you figure you can have any idea, without having ridden here.
> The trail I was talking about is at Quiet Waters Park. either you have
> ridden it, or you have no idea about it.


Quiet Waters Park:
Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida
Ride Type: Loop
Trail Type: not specified
Distance: 5.00 miles (8.05 KM)
Duration: not specified.
Elevation Gain: 20 Feet (6 Meters)
Climbing: Steep At Times
Skill Level: Beginners

Trail Description:
Quiet Waters Park is a nice and easy trail in the middle of town. It is
fun and easy to get to. If you're looking for a technical challenge, this
definitely isn't it.


5 miles long, 20 feet vertical gain, designed for beginners. That's your
idea of technical riding?!

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
 
"bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:29:42 -0400, Dan Volker wrote:
>
> > Just how do you figure you can have any idea, without having ridden

here.
> > The trail I was talking about is at Quiet Waters Park. either you have
> > ridden it, or you have no idea about it.

>
> Quiet Waters Park:
> Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida
> Ride Type: Loop
> Trail Type: not specified
> Distance: 5.00 miles (8.05 KM)
> Duration: not specified.
> Elevation Gain: 20 Feet (6 Meters)
> Climbing: Steep At Times
> Skill Level: Beginners
>
> Trail Description:
> Quiet Waters Park is a nice and easy trail in the middle of town. It is
> fun and easy to get to. If you're looking for a technical challenge, this
> definitely isn't it.
>
>
> 5 miles long, 20 feet vertical gain, designed for beginners. That's your
> idea of technical riding?!
>


Nice that you can do an internet search, but this has little to do with
knowing what a trail is like. When the park was first created, this was what
the designation was. Your description is old and no longer valid. It does
not even include mention of the Freeride Park which borders part of the
trail.

Several years ago, the local club which works on Quiet Waters, begain
turning it in to a trail that expert class riders would enjoy for workouts.
It has maybe a mile of novice trails--which are rough on novices, and most
of the rest is labeled "intermediate", though this intermediate can only be
named as such, to keep the park thinking that the trail is aimed at the
masses---most people who visit from other states consider the intermediate
to be "expert" , and I'd be quite confident that the majority of readers in
this NG would have a hard time getting around this course clean with no
falls or stopping. It has sections marked Expert as well, but this is not
really relevant here. The main trail is marked intermediate, and a decent
expert class rider on a full sus bike with gearing, should kick the **** out
of his evil twin who was riding a ss rigid bike. And I'll be shocked if
anyone on a rigid ss bike can stay with me on just one lap of this trail.
I'll put up a bet on this of $100, as putting my money where my mouth is.
Something tells me I'll hear a lot of yapping back, but it will be from a
bunch of toothless dogs who can't bite :)


Dan V


>
 
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:03:09 -0400, Dan Volker wrote:

> Nice that you can do an internet search, but this has little to do with
> knowing what a trail is like. When the park was first created, this was what
> the designation was. Your description is old and no longer valid.


Perhaps a review from last year then:
Review Date
April 23, 2003
"To get the feel of how this trail rides, throw a bunch of loose rocks and
wooden dowels on the sidewalk in front of your house, and then hit it
going about 12mph while zig zagging. This works especially well if you
live on oceanfront property so you can cruise thru about a mile of sand."

> Several years ago, the local club which works on Quiet Waters, begain
> turning it in to a trail that expert class riders would enjoy for workouts.
> It has maybe a mile of novice trails--which are rough on novices, and most
> of the rest is labeled "intermediate", though this intermediate can only be
> named as such, to keep the park thinking that the trail is aimed at the
> masses---most people who visit from other states consider the intermediate
> to be "expert" , and I'd be quite confident that the majority of readers in
> this NG would have a hard time getting around this course clean with no
> falls or stopping.


For somebody who constantly complains that we have no idea at all about
your local trails, don't you think it a touch presumptuous to assume
everyone's skill level?

> It has sections marked Expert as well, but this is not
> really relevant here.


So how does this trail compare to other trails you've ridden?
Specifically, trails with at least a 1000' of elevation gain.

The main trail is marked intermediate, and a decent
> expert class rider on a full sus bike with gearing, should kick the **** out
> of his evil twin who was riding a ss rigid bike. And I'll be shocked if
> anyone on a rigid ss bike can stay with me on just one lap of this trail.


Well, seeing as you're talking about a 20 minute sprint round something
that has less elevation than the average house, I'd be tempted to go along
with you...

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm