Rasmussen out of the tour!!!



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plectrum said:
Limerick I think the UCI rules say missing a test within 45 days of a GT equates to non eligibility, rahter than being suspended within 45 days. Currently the tru story and exact factual timeline has not surfaced. When exactly did Rasmussen miss a drug test and why?

R
Exact facts please if anyone knows them such as June 3rd, doping test called for Copenhagen, non attendance, reason given ..... none of this has been printed yet.

Christ sake as Rasmussen said in the interview 1 of the warnigns was for non submitting his whereabouts for the next quarter by 2 weeks but in reality it was only 1 day April 1st, when the UCI did not have his whereabouts for that second quarter which starts obviously on April 1st ... Ras must be hoping this is a giant April Fools gag!
 
plectrum said:
Exact facts please if anyone knows them such as June 3rd, doping test called for Copenhagen, non attendance, reason given ..... none of this has been printed yet.

Christ sake as Rasmussen said in the interview 1 of the warnigns was for non submitting his whereabouts for the next quarter by 2 weeks but in reality it was only 1 day April 1st, when the UCI did not have his whereabouts for that second quarter which starts obviously on April 1st ... Ras must be hoping this is a giant April Fools gag!
The cow blood and two witnesses did him in.

Hemopure by Biopure.

Ras is not suing anyone.
 
Ras's own words - as reported by Cycling News

"Rasmussen explained his non-availability over the past year: "I have one [warning] from last year, and the ones from March, where I pure and simply forgot to send in my second quarter information to the UCI.

"They immediately issued a warning on the 24th of March, even though the information they had on me went until the 31st of that same month. I received another one [warning] ... the 26th or 29th of June this year, from the UCI, I received one from the Danish federation as well, because they get their information from the same UCI database. If the database is not updated correctly then they will not know, and obviously, I might not be there." He said this accounted for four separate warnings from the UCI and Danish Cycling Federation combined."
 
limerickman said:
Ras's own words - as reported by Cycling News

"Rasmussen explained his non-availability over the past year: "I have one [warning] from last year, and the ones from March, where I pure and simply forgot to send in my second quarter information to the UCI.

"They immediately issued a warning on the 24th of March, even though the information they had on me went until the 31st of that same month. I received another one [warning] ... the 26th or 29th of June this year, from the UCI, I received one from the Danish federation as well, because they get their information from the same UCI database. If the database is not updated correctly then they will not know, and obviously, I might not be there." He said this accounted for four separate warnings from the UCI and Danish Cycling Federation combined."
Yed but in actuality it seems 1 was a verbal warnign from UCI for late submission of whereabouts, 2nd in june this year was written warning for late submission.

the other 2 at present I am not certain but it seems these were missed doping tests from the DCF.

I would just like to know though why he missed them, if he was late by a day or so updating the UCI and because of that the whereabouts database was not updated and so the DCF didn't realise he wasn't in Denmark and Ras didn'y realise that they were looking for him then ..... there is a possibility that this is just one big **** up due to the fact the Ras is **** at his book work - this is a crime but not one that deserves this level of punishment.

I will give you an example, I as a director have to submit forms to Inland Revenue, Companies House and HMRC if I am late by a day then I get a small fine, but also there may then be some delay before the information I send becomes available for public viewing. So people may mistakenly think I still havent sent in my info.

Now yes it is correct to fine me but could you imgine my horror if my government struck my company off the register, disqualified me from being a director and sent me to jail for being a day late !!!!!!

Now this is kinda what has happened in this case. It is very very strict.

I also appreciate that Rasmussen may be purposely manipulating the system during June with his 3 licenses so that he has a viable excuse at every turn to be non present when confronted with doping tests.

Altho Prudholme has said that it has reached the stage where innocent before proof no longer definately applies, I do think that is a statement which is moving away from democracy and more towards facism and is likely due to the complete loss of control that all major cycling federations have on the system.

If ASO and Prudholme had any balls they would not run the race again until they feel that a high level of control over the teams and their riders had been regained.

I do feel the massive loss of earnings by not having a tour de france next year would seriously shake up the entire sport and although I would miss the spectacle, this year has left me seriously p*ssed off. It has been probably the best cycling for many years maybe since fignon and Lemond or Indurain, Bugno and Chiappuci but it has ended in complete unsatisfaction.

I truly hope that Cadel Evans can some how gain 20-odd seconds tomorrow to nip it even tho this is near to impossible because there is very little in me that believes Contador or Discovery are clean cyclists.

Also there is much less in me after this tour that believes Armstrong is clean, I always gave him the benefit of doubt in arguments but after this tour and with his association to Ferrari I just do not credit it.

If Ras doped then so did Armstrong period.
 
I do feel tho that there is a much more important issue,

I am very much an amateur cyclist, I do not belong to a team and I train spradically but even I feel like taking my bike to the crusher and starting Kung Fu or Rowing or whatever.

Now this is a really bad way to feel just becuase an elite sportsman cheated, but the problem we are seeing is systemic to sport and endemic to society and it is based by the despearte need now for success / money ... through any means.

It is a real shame.
 
plectrum said:
I will give you an example, I as a director have to submit forms to Inland Revenue, Companies House and HMRC if I am late by a day then I get a small fine, but also there may then be some delay before the information I send becomes available for public viewing. So people may mistakenly think I still havent sent in my info.

Now yes it is correct to fine me but could you imgine my horror if my government struck my company off the register, disqualified me from being a director and sent me to jail for being a day late !!!!!!

I am familiar with submitting statutory accounts : if I am late submitting my clients annual statutory accounts, by even one day, the CRO (companies registration office) issues my client with a fine.
But let's be clear - the CRO issues me with ARD (annual return date notices)
three months before the statutory return deadline.
So i know and I am reminded three months before the due date - that I have to make a statutory return before a given date.
Therefore I have no excuse : I am aware of the statutory return date and I am required to comply before that date.




plectrum said:
Yed but in actuality it seems 1 was a verbal warnign from UCI for late submission of whereabouts, 2nd in june this year was written warning for late submission.

the other 2 at present I am not certain but it seems these were missed doping tests from the DCF.

I would just like to know though why he missed them, if he was late by a day or so updating the UCI and because of that the whereabouts database was not updated and so the DCF didn't realise he wasn't in Denmark and Ras didn'y realise that they were looking for him then ..... there is a possibility that this is just one big **** up due to the fact the Ras is **** at his book work - this is a crime but not one that deserves this level of punishment.

I don't know if Ras is being disingenuous when he says that he forgot.

I can't understand how or why a rider, given all the furora over compliance,
would simply forget.



plectrum said:
Now this is kinda what has happened in this case. It is very very strict.

I also appreciate that Rasmussen may be purposely manipulating the system during June with his 3 licenses so that he has a viable excuse at every turn to be non present when confronted with doping tests.

Altho Prudholme has said that it has reached the stage where innocent before proof no longer definately applies, I do think that is a statement which is moving away from democracy and more towards facism and is likely due to the complete loss of control that all major cycling federations have on the system.

If ASO and Prudholme had any balls they would not run the race again until they feel that a high level of control over the teams and their riders had been regained.

I do feel the massive loss of earnings by not having a tour de france next year would seriously shake up the entire sport and although I would miss the spectacle, this year has left me seriously p*ssed off. It has been probably the best cycling for many years maybe since fignon and Lemond or Indurain, Bugno and Chiappuci but it has ended in complete unsatisfaction.

I truly hope that Cadel Evans can some how gain 20-odd seconds tomorrow to nip it even tho this is near to impossible because there is very little in me that believes Contador or Discovery are clean cyclists.

Also there is much less in me after this tour that believes Armstrong is clean, I always gave him the benefit of doubt in arguments but after this tour and with his association to Ferrari I just do not credit it.

If Ras doped then so did Armstrong period.

I agree.
 
plectrum said:
I do feel tho that there is a much more important issue,

I am very much an amateur cyclist, I do not belong to a team and I train spradically but even I feel like taking my bike to the crusher and starting Kung Fu or Rowing or whatever.

Now this is a really bad way to feel just becuase an elite sportsman cheated, but the problem we are seeing is systemic to sport and endemic to society and it is based by the despearte need now for success / money ... through any means.

It is a real shame.

If it's a 58 inch frame - I'll buy it from you!
 
Quote from teh Contador post race interview:

Why not immediately submit a DNA sample to clear his name once and for all in the OP scandal? ("Because I am innocent," he replied, "and I don't have to prove anything to anyone." Of the DNA, he flashed a bit of smart-ass sensibility when he asked the reporter, "Who should I give it to, you?")
No surprises there. The state of cycling is such that trust in the riders has never been lower. "Cycling right now is a little bit crazy," allowed Contador, who seems wise beyond his 24 years. "There's a lot of suspicion, and a lot of suspicion [directed] at me, because I'm winning the Tour de France."

This being the 2007 Tour, the Spaniard seemed resigned to his inquisition.

Funny really how quick he is to forget.

Rasmussen is the champ not Contador.

They should only give the final yellow jersey in exchange for his DNA!
 
plectrum said:
Now yes it is correct to fine me but could you imgine my horror if my government struck my company off the register, disqualified me from being a director and sent me to jail for being a day late !!!!!!

Now this is kinda what has happened in this case. It is very very strict.
I also appreciate that Rasmussen may be purposely manipulating the system during June with his 3 licenses so that he has a viable excuse at every turn to be non present when confronted with doping tests.
Rasmussen looks dirty and probably is dirty, but I agree with you that his dismissal from the Tour wasn't right. There is no hint of a positive dope test on Rassmussen (unlike Lance by the way, where EPO was actually identified in his 1999 sample). Rass was tested for dope in June and he came out clean, and he was tested during the Tour and came out clean---unless something is still coming. This clean test in June is the reason that UCI/McQuaid gave for letting Rass start the Tour to begin with. Alternatively, UCI could have strictly interpreted UCI Article 220 to not let Rass start, but they didn't. UCI Artice 220 states "In case of a recorded warning or a missed test in a period of 45 days before the start of a major Tour, the rider is not allowed to participate in that Tour". Based on Rass' clean test in June, and also based on the reason that UCI has plans to scrap Article 220, UCI/McQuaid chose to let him start. Once UCI let Rass start, they needed to let him finish imo, unless he subsequently had a positive dope result.

I know it is allegedly Rabobank and not the TDF or UCI that made the call to pull Rass, but TDF and UCI certainly could have pressured Rabobank to make that call. In the end, however, Rass was removed from the Tour for some rather flimsy reasons imo, and even though I suspect the guy is a major doper, I hate to see power so summarily exercised without clear and compelling reasons for doing so. I hope Rass has a good attorney and that it turns out that the guy has some rights.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26072007/58/tour-de-france-tour-blames-uci-rasmussen.html
 
I hope Rass has a good attorney and that it turns out that the guy has some rights.
Your post missed the most important reason RAZ was withdrawn. He "supposedly" lied to the team where he was. He was not withdrawn pertaining to the missed tests. He was becoming a tremendous embarresment to Rabobank, the sponsor.

If he was not in Italy, then a tremendous injustice was done. The missed tests was what started the ball rolling, but the final result was the fans turned on Raz making the sponsor want him gone.
 
wolfix said:
Your post missed the most important reason RAZ was withdrawn. He "supposedly" lied to the team where he was. He was not withdrawn pertaining to the missed tests. He was becoming a tremendous embarresment to Rabobank, the sponsor.

If he was not in Italy, then a tremendous injustice was done. The missed tests was what started the ball rolling, but the final result was the fans turned on Raz making the sponsor want him gone.
Robobank kenw his whereabouts 24/7 all year long. That was a ASO cover story.

Animal right advocates wanted his cow blood sucking IVs gone.

PETA rocked Le Tour.


PETA hates both Ras and Michael Vick.
 
wolfix said:
Your post missed the most important reason RAZ was withdrawn. He "supposedly" lied to the team where he was. He was not withdrawn pertaining to the missed tests. He was becoming a tremendous embarresment to Rabobank, the sponsor.

If he was not in Italy, then a tremendous injustice was done. The missed tests was what started the ball rolling, but the final result was the fans turned on Raz making the sponsor want him gone.
What is generally overlooked is that the team manager from the Rabo mr Theo de Rooy has lied as well by the way. On the rest day they gave a press conferrence together in which Theo stated that the Rabobank and Rasmussen had been in daily contact about his whereabouts throughout the month of June. A day later he decided to sack Rasmussen since it turned out he was in Italy instead of Mexico.

Either Theo lied about being in daily contact with Rasmussen throughout June or he lied about Rasmussen being in Mexico as he would have known where Rasmussen was. I am suprised that Theo still has a job
 
wolfix said:
Your post missed the most important reason RAZ was withdrawn. He "supposedly" lied to the team where he was. He was not withdrawn pertaining to the missed tests. He was becoming a tremendous embarresment to Rabobank, the sponsor.
Undboutedly Rass in yellow did not provide the image for the sport that Prudhomme and McQuaid want to get out there, and I guess Rass was proving an embarrassment for Rabobank as well like you say, but still, finding out that a guy (allegedly) lied about his whereabouts in June doesn't seem to me to be solid enough grounds for Rabobank to fire and remove a guy from the Tour on July 25th, several days before he is going to win it.
 
Trajectum said:
What is generally overlooked is that the team manager from the Rabo mr Theo de Rooy has lied as well by the way. On the rest day they gave a press conferrence together in which Theo stated that the Rabobank and Rasmussen had been in daily contact about his whereabouts throughout the month of June. A day later he decided to sack Rasmussen since it turned out he was in Italy instead of Mexico.

Either Theo lied about being in daily contact with Rasmussen throughout June or he lied about Rasmussen being in Mexico as he would have known where Rasmussen was. I am suprised that Theo still has a job
Why are you surprised? They all lie at all levels. Riders to the sponsors.

Bjarne Riis lied---and still owns his team CSC.
Johan Bruyneel lies daily--and has his job
Lance Pharmstong lies and he own his own team & foundation
Hein Verbruggen lied for years at UCI and he was promoted to the IOC.
Alberto Contador lied about Operation Puerto and he is in Yellow & White.
Ivan Basso lied and Lance employed him anyway.

Lying is oxygen to pro teams. Sort of a Cow Blood+.
 
chainstay said:
Undboutedly Rass in yellow did not provide the image for the sport that Prudhomme and McQuaid want to get out there, and I guess Rass was proving an embarrassment for Rabobank as well like you say, but still, finding out that a guy (allegedly) lied about his whereabouts in June doesn't seem to me to be solid enough grounds for Rabobank to fire and remove a guy from the Tour on July 25th, several days before he is going to win it.
Cow blood questions are not cool in Paris.
 
chainstay said:
Undboutedly Rass in yellow did not provide the image for the sport that Prudhomme and McQuaid want to get out there, and I guess Rass was proving an embarrassment for Rabobank as well like you say, but still, finding out that a guy (allegedly) lied about his whereabouts in June doesn't seem to me to be solid enough grounds for Rabobank to fire and remove a guy from the Tour on July 25th, two days before he is going to win it.
It was weak grounds. But the sponsor has more power then anyone, including the UCI and the ASO. The sponsor does not get mentioned much, but it is what makes the rules for cycling. The TDF is run for the benifit of the sponsor, not the fans nor the riders.
RAZ was a embarresment when the sponsor backed him and went along with his "I'm in Mexico," then we learn he may have lied. The sponsor then heard RAZ being booed by the crowd. The sponsor had to do something.
I will be really ****** off if RAZ was in Mexico and it is proven. I pulled for Disco this TDF, but I would feel the chicken was robbed.
That is what we have to wait and see.

But either way RAZ is getting used by the UCI. I still think dope is nothing but a small part of the problem facing cycling right now. The UCI and the ASO are taking punches at each other. The UCI could have averted this entire thing before the TDF if they wanted to. But now the TDF is left with the aftermath.
RAZ was used.
We will read more about it following the TDF.
 
Bankers do not lust for cow blood allegations either.

ASO, UCI & Robobank all had parallel marketing interests.


wolfix said:
It was weak grounds. But the sponsor has more power then anyone, including the UCI and the ASO. The sponsor does not get mentioned much, but it is what makes the rules for cycling. The TDF is run for the benifit of the sponsor, not the fans nor the riders.
RAZ was a embarresment when the sponsor backed him and went along with his "I'm in Mexico," then we learn he may have lied. The sponsor then heard RAZ being booed by the crowd. The sponsor had to do something.
I will be really ****** off if RAZ was in Mexico and it is proven. I pulled for Disco this TDF, but I would feel the chicken was robbed.
That is what we have to wait and see.

But either way RAZ is getting used by the UCI. I still think dope is nothing but a small part of the problem facing cycling right now. The UCI and the ASO are taking punches at each other. The UCI could have averted this entire thing before the TDF if they wanted to. But now the TDF is left with the aftermath.
RAZ was used.
We will read more about it following the TDF.
 
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