recumbent seating position

[Edward Dolan]

"magpie83" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It appears there are many different attitudes to the problems
> encountered by recumbent cycle users. Clearly, therefore, design is
> still to be done. To iron out these problems with safety and powering
> etc.
>
> Perhaps, like Dyson himself concluded, there is a much more efficient
> way of doing a job machines have been doing for years. Vacuum cleaners
> used bags, this was the norm, and was never questioned. Look how wrong
> we were! My point being, have we taken the recubent vehicle as far as
> we ever can?! Or are we just at a happy medium, like we were with our
> vacuum cleaners!

Do not vacuum cleaners still use bags?

> I therefore think it is a good idea to look at the possibilities of
> improving safety, powering, weather protection and any other problems
> your research uncovers! (Maybe it will replace the car! Perhaps you
> won't, but who are we to judge!)

You are describing the automobile, an invention of the Devil that has long
been with us and has ruined all of our cities and most of the countryside
too.

> So, lets all try and help out, and give andy our own experiences of
> using these vehicles. As who better to ask about making improvements
> than the people who use the vehicles!
>
> Good Luck with your research and design.

No magpie83, I am all tuckered out and I am going to lie down and have a
nice long sleep. I leave all this development business to the young. If they
want to do as you suggest, they are welcome to do so, but I think it is all
nothing but a wild goose chase. The bicycle is capable of only so much
development and it has been around now for well over a hundred years. I am
afraid that what you see is what you get. Anything else is pie in the sky,
oh magpie83!

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:29:24 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>it is my aim to goad this donkey from Scotland to tell us what medical physics is.

Cascara sagrada, innit?

 

[magpie83]

Oh dear eddy, well if the complexity of improving any aspect of such
vehicles confuses your old mind, maybe you had better keep your
opinions to yourself. It is not simply a bicycle that is being talked
about. And even if it was, look at areas such as spokes, suspension,
and materials used in modern mountain bikes. Redesigned every year,
with modifications applied. Sounds like progress to me. Especially if
you were to lift a modern bike compared to the age old steel framed
bikes. Oh, and the fact that disc brakes funnily enough developed from
those devil machines you mentioned.

The fact you mention cars being, 'an invention of the devil', backs up
my argument that should sufficient improvements be made, they could
replace the automobile, in our larger cities at least. Where the are
exempt from road tax, and London's newly implied entrance fee to the
city!

Yes, you are correct, vacuum cleaners still can use bags, well done on
that point. But i believe the point i was making (and you missed by a
huge margin) was that by removing the bag, and exploring new technolgy
we live in healthier environments, where are children will be less
prone to breathing difficulties, such as asthma! Also, using bags can
result in a loss of up to 70%, where as bagless cleaners, retain on
average 100%. Pretty good eh! The advantages of research.

Andy, may i suggest you look in other forums, where people are a
little less close-minded, and open for change!

 

[Tom Sherman]

Jon Meinecke wrote:

> ...
> The chances of the lately perennial persona and self-
> imagined master baiter of ARBR ever knowing what
> it is, or even knowing what IT is are small, but seemingly
> significantly larger than the possibility he will contribute
> meaningful and/or insightful content or make a logical,
> cogent argument about anything.
>
> There's a Monty Python sketch in here, somewhere,
> perhaps several. The argument, dead parrot, Piranha
> brothers, black knight,... Take your pick.

I believe a visit to a psychiatric dairy is in order for Mr. Ed.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Jon Meinecke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1098365700.KbG/nubnDa8LqatGdHhGNw@teranews...
>
>>"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>>Conventional saddles support the sit bones, not
>>>the groin. Or at least /should/ support the sit bones
>>>and not the groin. If the saddle is the right shape for
>>>the rider (and that may be a big "if") then there should
>>>be no pressure on anything that will cause any more
>>>problem than sitting on the ground. [...]
>>
>>There are some studies that suggest bike seat/saddle
>>design/usage/fit may play a role in certain medical problems.
>>
>>http://www.emedicine.com/sports/topic12.htm
>>http://www.bycycleinc.com/pages/article_MTJ.html (see references)
>>
>>And there's an industry built around "special" seats to address
>>the 'problems'.
>>
>>http://www.spongywonder.com/ %^)
>>
>>Marketing copy on one special bike seat at LBS read something
>>like "Our design reduces penile numbness...". Made me wonder
>>what is the desired/acceptable level of that condition... %^P
>>
>>
>>>>Maybe some who claims to be an expert in medical physics
>>>>could enlighten us.
>>>
>>>Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't. Though I've
>>>never claimed to be an expert in the field I do know
>>>what medical physics /is/ [...]
>>
>>The chances of the lately perennial persona and self-
>>imagined master baiter of ARBR ever knowing what
>>it is, or even knowing what IT is are small, but seemingly
>>significantly larger than the possibility he will contribute
>>meaningful and/or insightful content or make a logical,
>>cogent argument about anything.
>
>
> I am determined never to look up what medical physics is about. Instead, it
> is my aim to goad this donkey from Scotland to tell us what medical physics
> is. Either that or I will continue to poke fun at him and his occupation
> until hell freezes over. He has made his occupation an issue by telling us
> what it is that he does with his every signature...

Mr. Meinecke was postulating that Mr. Dolan would remain in ignorance of
the meaning of "IT", not "medical physics". It appears that Mr. Dolan's
reading comprehension is slipping - the onset of dementia, perhaps?

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

Jon Meinecke wrote:

> ...
> The chances of the lately perennial persona and self-
> imagined master baiter of ARBR ever knowing what
> it...

"Augh! Ohh! Don't say that word." - HEAD KNIGHT

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> ...
> I am waiting for you to explain your mysterious occupation....

It took me a fraction of second to figure out Mr. Clinch's occupation.
Mr. Dolan is missing the tree for the leaves.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

Here is the entire previous post so others will know what is under
discussion. If you are bent on improving things, maybe you could improve on
how you post. Try to follow the rules if that is not asking too much.

"magpie83" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It appears there are many different attitudes to the problems
> encountered by recumbent cycle users. Clearly, therefore, design is
> still to be done. To iron out these problems with safety and powering
> etc.
>
> Perhaps, like Dyson himself concluded, there is a much more efficient
> way of doing a job machines have been doing for years. Vacuum cleaners
> used bags, this was the norm, and was never questioned. Look how wrong
> we were! My point being, have we taken the recubent vehicle as far as
> we ever can?! Or are we just at a happy medium, like we were with our
> vacuum cleaners!

Do not vacuum cleaners still use bags?

> I therefore think it is a good idea to look at the possibilities of
> improving safety, powering, weather protection and any other problems
> your research uncovers! (Maybe it will replace the car! Perhaps you
> won't, but who are we to judge!)

You are describing the automobile, an invention of the Devil that has long
been with us and has ruined all of our cities and most of the countryside
too.

> So, lets all try and help out, and give andy our own experiences of
> using these vehicles. As who better to ask about making improvements
> than the people who use the vehicles!
>
> Good Luck with your research and design.

No magpie83, I am all tuckered out and I am going to lie down and have a
nice long sleep. I leave all this development business to the young. If they
want to do as you suggest, they are welcome to do so, but I think it is all
nothing but a wild goose chase. The bicycle is capable of only so much
development and it has been around now for well over a hundred years. I am
afraid that what you see is what you get. Anything else is pie in the sky,
oh magpie83!

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota


"magpie83" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oh dear eddy, well if the complexity of improving any aspect of such
> vehicles confuses your old mind, maybe you had better keep your
> opinions to yourself. It is not simply a bicycle that is being talked
> about. And even if it was, look at areas such as spokes, suspension,
> and materials used in modern mountain bikes. Redesigned every year,
> with modifications applied. Sounds like progress to me. Especially if
> you were to lift a modern bike compared to the age old steel framed
> bikes. Oh, and the fact that disc brakes funnily enough developed from
> those devil machines you mentioned.

Bikes have not changed much in the past 25 years. The improvements you talk
about are only on the margin. They really don't amount to a hill of beans.
They are in the main just calculated to separate the consumer from his hard
earned dollar. The bike I was riding 25 years ago is just as good as any
bike today. The bike is not redesigned every year. It hasn't been redesigned
in 100 years. Just more of the same old same old. Nothing ever changes when
it comes to bikes.

> The fact you mention cars being, 'an invention of the devil', backs up
> my argument that should sufficient improvements be made, they could
> replace the automobile, in our larger cities at least. Where the are
> exempt from road tax, and London's newly implied entrance fee to the
> city!

Hope springs eternal in the human breast!

> Yes, you are correct, vacuum cleaners still can use bags, well done on
> that point. But i believe the point i was making (and you missed by a
> huge margin) was that by removing the bag, and exploring new technolgy
> we live in healthier environments, where are children will be less
> prone to breathing difficulties, such as asthma! Also, using bags can
> result in a loss of up to 70%, where as bagless cleaners, retain on
> average 100%. Pretty good eh! The advantages of research.

Every vacuum cleaner I ever had was connected to a bag.

> Andy, may i suggest you look in other forums, where people are a
> little less close-minded, and open for change!

I am not Andy and i should be capitalized since it is the personal pronoun.
I see lots of room for improvement in your posting form. Maybe you could
work on that more and not concern yourself so much with improving the rest
of the world.

I don't give a tinker's damn about an open mind. As a matter of fact, I
rather appreciate a closed mind. That indicates to me that one has thought
about something and come to a conclusion. No, I think a closed mind suits me
much better since I have come to conclusions about most things under the
sun. Maybe someday if you live long enough, you will come to some
conclusions too and not be cursed with an open mind - and always to be
hoping for pie in the sky, oh magpie83.

Now I am going to lie down and have a snooze. All this verbal combat has
exhausted me. My closed mind will soon be sound asleep and I will dream
about going fast on my 25 year old bike. When I arise refreshed from my
snooze, I will perhaps vacuum the rug with my 25 year old vacuum cleaner,
the one with a bag on it.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> "Jon Meinecke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:1098365700.KbG/nubnDa8LqatGdHhGNw@teranews...
[...]
>>>The chances of the lately perennial persona and self-
>>>imagined master baiter of ARBR ever knowing what
>>>it is, or even knowing what IT is are small, but seemingly
>>>significantly larger than the possibility he will contribute
>>>meaningful and/or insightful content or make a logical,
>>>cogent argument about anything.
>>
>>
>> I am determined never to look up what medical physics is about. Instead,
>> it is my aim to goad this donkey from Scotland to tell us what medical
>> physics is. Either that or I will continue to poke fun at him and his
>> occupation until hell freezes over. He has made his occupation an issue
>> by telling us what it is that he does with his every signature...
>
> Mr. Meinecke was postulating that Mr. Dolan would remain in ignorance of
> the meaning of "IT", not "medical physics". It appears that Mr. Dolan's
> reading comprehension is slipping - the onset of dementia, perhaps?

Who knows what the hell Meinecke is referring to. His writing is as
constipated as his thinking. I sure as hell am not going to waste time
trying to decipher him. Just what is the IT that Meinecke is referring to?
Only another constipated mind like that of Mr. Sherman knows. Apparently, it
takes one to know one. It is up to the writer to make himself crystal clear,
something that Meinecke seems incapable of.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

magpie83 wrote:

> ...
> Perhaps, like Dyson himself concluded, there is a much more efficient
> way of doing a job machines have been doing for years. Vacuum cleaners
> used bags, this was the norm, and was never questioned. Look how wrong
> we were!...

Yes, but bagless vacuum cleaners still suck!

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> ...
>> I am waiting for you to explain your mysterious occupation....
>
> It took me a fraction of second to figure out Mr. Clinch's occupation. Mr.
> Dolan is missing the tree for the leaves.

It may be that the medical physics officer is in charge of cleaning the
toilets?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Mark Leuck]

"WivFam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> >Hi im currently designing a recumbent bike for a university project.
> >The bike is for a parent and child to use on the school run. Does
> >anyone have any suggestions for safe and practical seating positions
> >for both the adult and child. The adult will be the sole operater.
> >Also, what are the main benifits of a recumbant bike compared to an
> >upright? i know the eye line would be considerably lower on a
> >recumbent. how does this affect your vunerability on the road?
> >
> >Cheers, Andy.
>
> Typically, however, no recumbents are safe for children, only adults with
full
> responsibility. One must accept the full responsibility that the driver
will
> not be suprised by odd shapes and flags and run you over. Overall, you
must
> conclude that rucumbents are not safe for children, but that any
suspension in
> the seat should be required for children who can easily damage their
prostates
> or whatever by a large bump.

I rode several standard bikes for 15 years while growing up that had no
suspension, if that didn't damage my prostrate no recumbent ever would

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> ...
> Every vacuum cleaner I ever had was connected to a bag....

Mr. Ed never lets go!

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Peter Clinch]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> It may be that the medical physics officer is in charge of cleaning the
> toilets?

Maybe, but who's claiming to be one? Not me... What did you do in the
library Ed, since you clearly have trouble reading?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> Open any bike catalog and you will see literally several pages devoted to
> bike saddles. Those Wal-Mart bikes with their comfort saddles on them are an
> honest attempt to address a problem that you claim hardly exists.

I haven't made any such claim. I /have/ said that it /needn't/ exist,
but that's not the same thing. And it takes more to make a good
comfortable saddle than to write "comfort" on it. My uprights have
traditional leather saddles and they are considerably more comfortable
than the "comfort" saddles they replaced. They are not an "honest
attempt" to address any problem other than shifting high volumes of junk.

> The only
> numskulls in this scenario are the racers with their narrow racing style
> saddles on their $2000. bikes.

Narrow racing saddles need not be misshapen or uncomfortable, though.
Some certainly are, but by no means all of them. But you don't appear
to have actually sat on any for at least 25 years, so you're not in a
position to know, just to think you do.

> Those Europeans who cycle a lot are most likely just commuting short
> distances and not putting on many miles at all. A lot of this stuff only
> kicks in on all day week long types of rides.

Most cyclists anywhere are just commuting short distances. Cyclists who
travel good distances will have a greater representation in a cycling
culture. Probably a lot more people doing serious track cycling per
head of population around Ghent than most places in the US, for example.

> The way to solve a problem is by designing out what is causing the problem
> in the first place, not by so-called education. I blame the designers of
> bike saddles for the discomfort and medical problems they cause, not the end
> user.

A couple of paragraphs ago they were making an "honest attempt" to
address the problem, but now you're blaming them. I think a lot of
riders would be better off on 'bents for reasons of primary comfort, but
if people won't pay for them then they can't have them. That's hardly
the fault of the designers.

> I am waiting for you to explain your mysterious occupation.

There's nothing mysterious about an IT Officer, or at least not to
anyone who has let their brain work at some point since the 1980s.

> profession or is it like calling a janitor a sanitation engineer? Perhaps
> you sweep the corridors in the hospital and empty the trash containers?

No, that would be a cleaner rather than an IT officer. Though you do
seem to be drawing a distinction between place of employment and job
title now, so that's progress of sorts. Well done! But your wilful
ignorance and stupidity is so pathetic it doesn't even rate as annoying,
so you're hardly going to goad me into losing my temper with you on
current form.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[The Python Police]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Jon Meinecke wrote:
>
>> ...
>> The chances of the lately perennial persona and self-
>> imagined master baiter of ARBR ever knowing what
>> it...
>
> "Augh! Ohh! Don't say that word." - HEAD KNIGHT

Ahem!

--

The Python Police

 

[Dave Larrington]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> It may be that the medical physics officer is in charge of cleaning
>> the toilets?
>
> Maybe, but who's claiming to be one? Not me... What did you do in
> the library Ed, since you clearly have trouble reading?
>
> Pete.

Don't forget they don't have internet search engines on Planet Minnesota,
Pete.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

 

[Dave Larrington]

magpie83 wrote:

> Perhaps, like Dyson himself concluded, there is a much more efficient
> way of doing a job machines have been doing for years. Vacuum cleaners
> used bags, this was the norm, and was never questioned. Look how wrong
> we were! My point being, have we taken the recubent vehicle as far as
> we ever can?! Or are we just at a happy medium, like we were with our
> vacuum cleaners!

I have a Dyson and while it's quite capable of sucking up the carpet, it's a
pain to empty coz the dust, fluff and general skog goes everywhere except
into the bin. I shall be unlikely to buy another unless they've improved
the emptying mechanism (or I can get a cheap one via a friend who works for
them...)

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> It may be that the medical physics officer is in charge of cleaning the
>> toilets?
>
> Maybe, but who's claiming to be one? Not me... What did you do in the
> library Ed, since you clearly have trouble reading?

It seems to me there would be a lot of PHYSICS to cleaning the toilets in a
MEDICAL facility such as a hospital. It must be nice to be the OFFICER in
charge of this very important and indeed vital duty.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>> It may be that the medical physics officer is in charge of cleaning
>>> the toilets?
>>
>> Maybe, but who's claiming to be one? Not me... What did you do in
>> the library Ed, since you clearly have trouble reading?
>>
>> Pete.
>
> Don't forget they don't have internet search engines on Planet Minnesota,
> Pete.

It is this scofflaw from Scotland who is advertising the fact in his
signature that he is into something called medical physics which in turn is
connected to a hospital. He is even an officer no less. Since he does not
want to tell this group what it is all about, I will just assume that he is
cleaning toilets in a hospital.

Why should I look up something with a search engine just find out anything
about this jackass. No, he can tell us what it is that he does since he is
the jerk advertising it, not me. Medical physics - anyone?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota