When will Contadope be caught?

[Tim Lamkin]

It is very readable. Answered all questions you asked….once again you do not have a clue, not a late night I get up early. If you had a clue you would have answered my PM's I sent you over three months ago, you just decided to ignore them....
My respect dwindled right after that.
BTW thanks.

 

[micron]

Limerickman - The evidence against Ullrich in relation to Puerto is massive and damming - enough for me to have no doubt that he was guilty of participating in a sustained doping programme. Likewise Heras, Hamilton, Basso - where there is a clear trail of money payments, phone calls that refer to doping and documents with doping orders and schedules then I think it is reasonable to offer an opinion ahead of any formal prosecutions.

None of this applies to Contador so unless there is other, as yet unreleased evidence he can´t be fingered as a known cheat. No matter what your gut feeling is.

Actually document 31 - which the UCI claim never to have seen - shows AC and his teammates RH (Heras) and JJ (Jaksche) etc doping schedule for last year's TdF. I'm sure the UCI will 'find' such a document if it means they'll be able to discredit the MJ - a very handing bargaining chip.

Just like Bruyneel before him, Contador was Saiz's protegee - can you honestly say that Saiz, who ran the most complete doping operation in the sport at ONCE (so good, Bruyneel hired the doctor who implemented it to run USPS/Discovery's medical programme) signed Contador at 19 and said 'hold on lads, let's keep this one clean'? More likely 'let's give him the best preparation' - which might not have been Fuentes - there's another doc who flies under the radar whose prepped Indurain and Armstrong in his time...

Contador keeps referring to being on the 'wrong team at the wrong time' as if it was all some terrible mistake and he couldn't wait to get away from Liberty and the awful Saiz - a man so dreadful that Contador called him 'my second father'. It was the 'wrong team' for an awfully long time...

I like Contador's riding style - he reminds me exactly of a young Richard Virenque, all shoulders and bouncing on the pedals - but no evidence linking Alberto and Puerto? That's the best laugh I've had all morning.

 

[limerickman]

It is very readable. Answered all questions you asked….once again you do not have a clue, not a late night I get up early.

Tim : this wasn't readable see here

Unlit it is proven, by independent labs with a verified process and a repeatable process........YES...do I think he is guilty...YES

How can guilt be established if none of the OP blood was tested, Tim?

Your statement of guilt doesn't make sense, as you contend that only by independent testing can a rider be found guilty.
You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Tim Lamkin]

It cannot ...it DOES need to be tested.

 

[Denia]

Den : the blood found in the Madrid lab has never been tested to ascertain whether or not the blood found belongs to the various cyclists named (Basso, Ullrich etc).

A bag of blood referenced AC was found at the lab : that blood like the rest of the blood has never been tested.

Others here have stated that the only way to prove that doping occurs is for that blood, found in Madrid, to be tested to ascertain the guilt or innocence of the rider concerned.

Lim - I hear you. My point is that the weight of evidence on all of the points I made allow one to make a reasonable assumption that certain riders were doping - whether their blood is ever tested or not. Ullrich, Basso, Hamilton and Heras (among others) were hung out to dry in the Puerto documents - Contador was not. The governing bodies ruled that he had no case to answer - despite the blood bag with A.C. initials on it. I cannot see any logic in letting him off the hook if they believed the evidence was there to prove he doped - back then he merited no special attention, no favours because he might win the next Tour etc. The idea that he cut a deal makes no sense either - who was he going to rat on? Members of his team and his team director were already implicated and none of the athletes were actually breaking any laws in Spain - so no favours from the Guardia Civil.

He may be doping now, he may have doped then but it is going to have to be evidence that does not exist at the moment that takes him down. Living here in Spain I would like to believe he is clean but I can assure you few in Spanish the cycling community believe that to be the case. Likewise they accept that Mayo, Valverde, Sastre etc. are probably on a programme. But you can´t hang a man based on gut feeling.

 

[limerickman]

Lim - I hear you. My point is that the weight of evidence on all of the points I made allow one to make a reasonable assumption that certain riders were doping - whether their blood is ever tested or not. Ullrich, Basso, Hamilton and Heras (among others) were hung out to dry in the Puerto documents - Contador was not. The governing bodies ruled that he had no case to answer - despite the blood bag with A.C. initials on it. I cannot see any logic in letting him off the hook if they believed the evidence was there to prove he doped - back then he merited no special attention, no favours because he might win the next Tour etc. The idea that he cut a deal makes no sense either - who was he going to rat on? Members of his team and his team director were already implicated and none of the athletes were actually breaking any laws in Spain - so no favours from the Guardia Civil.

He may be doping now, he may have doped then but it is going to have to be evidence that does not exist at the moment that takes him down. Living here in Spain I would like to believe he is clean but I can assure you few in Spanish the cycling community believe that to be the case. Likewise they accept that Mayo, Valverde, Sastre etc. are probably on a programme. But you can´t hang a man based on gut feeling.

I hear what you're saying, Den.

I'd be delighted if Spain (and cycling) had found a clean TDF champion.
God knows we have been shortchanged far too much in the last the few years with known dopers having won the TDF.

 

[Tim Lamkin]

Lim I would love to keep up the bating game we got going, however I do have a real career so off to work...see you this evening.


BTW you say I don’t answer your questions how-bout you...you only reply to what you can attempt to catch someone else………… in something.

 

[limerickman]

Lim I would love to keep up the bating game we got going, however I do have a real career so off to work...see you this evening.


BTW you say I don’t answer your questions how-bout you...you only reply to what you can attempt to catch someone else………… in something.

Tim : batting.

Not bating.

 

[Tim Lamkin]

Typing toooooo fast.

You do love correcting me, sure happy I can give you info to work with.

 

[musette]

When some posters can't challenge substance or can't demonstrate via facts that are generally accepted, they might try to "challenge" using other things. Don't worry about it; just see it as the inability to challenge using more substantive arguments.

 

[Tim Lamkin]

ONE never know if "said" person can or cannot get into a highly charged and intellectually satisfying debate, remember the computer monitor transfers little as to the image of the man, nor does typing, it is only a facade as to the real depths of the human behind the keyboard….seems all like a bit of chess match.

 

[thoughtforfood]

ONE never know if "said" person can or cannot get into a highly charged and intellectually satisfying debate, remember the computer monitor transfers little as to the image of the man, nor does typing, it is only a facade as to the real depths of the human behind the keyboard….seems all like a bit of chess match.

Well, we can tell a lot about a man by his avatar, and while I am kind of keen on mine, yours is more impressive.

 

[musette]

What Alberto also has had is ambition -- the ambition to attack, the ambition to go beyond his goal as set by Bruyneel of the white jersey, the ambition to try and advance up the GC.

"I want to celebrate it and to have parties, then go on holidays, enjoying this first win," commented Contador on the overall win."

Being only 24 years old and now presumably the undisputed leader going forward of DC, Alberto has every reason to be optimistic this will not be his only Tour win in his career.

 

[lancer_dancer01]

I don't think I will believe anything written in a french paper, due to the fact that they are ****** off that they cant win the tour ever. You know that if a french rider would have won the papers would be praising him. If Contador is proved to be doping, I think the tour should just shut down then because it is already at the point where no one believes that any of the riders are clean. They should raise the stakes to lifetime ban(including olympics) if tested positive, this might make riders consider not doping( i doubt it).

 

[Doctor.House]

Contadope would flunk the IRMS test on all of his TDF urine samples.

He is a cheat. Believe that.

I don't think I will believe anything written in a french paper, due to the fact that they are ****** off that they cant win the tour ever. You know that if a french rider would have won the papers would be praising him. If Contador is proved to be doping, I think the tour should just shut down then because it is already at the point where no one believes that any of the riders are clean. They should raise the stakes to lifetime ban(including olympics) if tested positive, this might make riders consider not doping( i doubt it).

 

[Tim Lamkin]

Well, we can tell a lot about a man by his avatar, and while I am kind of keen on mine, yours is more impressive.

Damn good looking guy....aren't I....great English also….

 

[whiteboytrash]

Jörg Jaschke, Contador’s former teammate, and on of the first confessing his doping past, told daily "Süddeutsche Zeitung” that “the police worked well, but appareantly some names leaked and some were removed.

“I also was ten years in the situation of having to lie. I wouldn’t ask him anything because I’m sure I couldn’t accept his answer,” the rider said in an interview with radio “Bayern 3”.

 

[musette]

“I also was ten years in the situation of having to lie. I wouldn’t ask him anything because I’m sure I couldn’t accept his answer,” the rider said in an interview with radio “Bayern 3”.

Who is the "him", to be clear? Also, JJ is not saying he knows anything based on concrete facts about Alberto, he is just saying he "couldn't accept" Alberto's answer. That means that JJ doesn't know for sure either way.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Why do I get the feeling that this Contador dude is now the "Chosen One". The Spanish Messiah. The protected Disco LA heir apparent. Yeah and names are accidentally placed on a list that can potentially kill a guy's career. Why not rap him over the knuckles then let him go out and win 10 TDF's for Spain.

I feel the cynicism enveloping me. Please...help me...help...

Jörg Jaschke, Contador’s former teammate, and on of the first confessing his doping past, told daily "Süddeutsche Zeitung” that “the police worked well, but appareantly some names leaked and some were removed.

“I also was ten years in the situation of having to lie. I wouldn’t ask him anything because I’m sure I couldn’t accept his answer,” the rider said in an interview with radio “Bayern 3”.

 

[limerickman]

Why do I get the feeling that this Contador dude is now the "Chosen One". The Spanish Messiah. The protected Disco LA heir apparent. Yeah and names are accidentally placed on a list that can potentially kill a guy's career. Why not rap him over the knuckles then let him go out and win 10 TDF's for Spain.

I feel the cynicism enveloping me. Please...help me...help...

I wouldn't be too sure about anyone being protected.

Ever been in a car crash?
As the accident happens, you know that it is going to happen and you know that there is nothing whatsoever that you can do from stopping it happen.

That's where we are right now with the 2007 TDF.