Iban Mayo



The same yuppies that give their kids ritalin, take viagra, and the purple pill and keep the drug companies in business? I still think that fans don't really want to know, if the media does give stories on doping than yeah riders and fans might care. But if there are no stories, then they'll call it the bad old days and forget about it.

I think the PR campaign has already started with the biological passport, it will be used to show that cycling in clean in public, but I doubt that it will really clean up the sport.



Bro Deal said:
I am not so sure about this. I cannot speak about European countries, but the U.S.--perhaps Germany is the same--has seen a significant change in the sport over the last ten years. In the U.S. cycling used to be much like climbing. It was a fringe sport. Now it has largely changed into a sport of yuppies who ride for fitness, and they do care about the doping.

I usually ride a few organized centuries a year. I have definitely seen a change in the type of riders. A large number are now sporting their companies' MS150 jersey. The riders used to be all sorts of odd ball characters and now they are almost all people with white collar jobs, often in their thirties and forties. The MS150 has used a rather brilliant strategy of encouraging medium and large companies to form teams of employees, and I think it has skewed the makeup of the average rider in the U.S.

I have lost track of the number of people I have bumped into on rides who have sworn off following pro cycling because of the doping. It has really picked up in the last two years. Wolf will say they don't matter, they were not long time, hardcore fans anyway; but I think it makes a difference. You cannot see a storying about doping in sport without cycling being mentioned. It has entered the popular imagination that pro cycling is as dirty as it comes.

All those yuppies are the ones buying expensive gear with their credit cards and HELOCs. They are the ones who sponsors are trying to connect with. If you lose them then the big money sponsors will leave. This might very well be why Disco could not land another sponsor.

With the cat being out of the bag, I don't see that you can now sweep the doping problem under the rug and go back to the way it was. There needs to be some sort of proactive solution that convinces people that things have changed.
 
Bro Deal said:
I am not so sure about this. I cannot speak about European countries, but the U.S.--perhaps Germany is the same--has seen a significant change in the sport over the last ten years. In the U.S. cycling used to be much like climbing. It was a fringe sport. Now it has largely changed into a sport of yuppies who ride for fitness, and they do care about the doping.

I usually ride a few organized centuries a year. I have definitely seen a change in the type of riders. A large number are now sporting their companies' MS150 jersey. The riders used to be all sorts of odd ball characters and now they are almost all people with white collar jobs, often in their thirties and forties. The MS150 has used a rather brilliant strategy of encouraging medium and large companies to form teams of employees, and I think it has skewed the makeup of the average rider in the U.S.

I have lost track of the number of people I have bumped into on rides who have sworn off following pro cycling because of the doping. It has really picked up in the last two years. Wolf will say they don't matter, they were not long time, hardcore fans anyway; but I think it makes a difference. You cannot see a storying about doping in sport without cycling being mentioned. It has entered the popular imagination that pro cycling is as dirty as it comes.

All those yuppies are the ones buying expensive gear with their credit cards and HELOCs. They are the ones who sponsors are trying to connect with. If you lose them then the big money sponsors will leave. This might very well be why Disco could not land another sponsor.

With the cat being out of the bag, I don't see that you can now sweep the doping problem under the rug and go back to the way it was. There needs to be some sort of proactive solution that convinces people that things have changed.
The sport has been yuppified since the mid 80's........ I had money invested in the local shop thru 1995 and saw the slow change about 1980.....
Like you said...... It used to be a bunch of misfits.
Yuppies want it clean????? Come to the local university gym and see who is juiced. The high end credit card boys....... Our future. They say one thing, but they do another. They do not walk the talk.
The reason you are seeing more century rides with major sponsors is because of the insurance it takes to conduct a cycling event on the road. [And that's a shame because centuries are a blast.]

These yuppies that say they want to see the sport change are the very same ones who paid $500 a plate to hear LA talk. They packed our sports arena a few weeks ago to get a glimpse of the man.
They are the ones who pay outragous sums of money to buy autographed jerseys of the cycling stars.



I won't disagree with you about the sport becoming unattractive.......
LA was a star. And still is. He is the man that defied death. That alone has put the sport in the spotlight. So we are going to see a automatic dropoff with his retirement. Floyd Landis does not have star power and was not really a fan favorite. And it's rather hard for the American fanbase get behind a LL or a Tommy D.


With the news that the ASO/UCI supposedly have made up.,the doping busts will slow way down........... A new sport will be announced....... And yet we will see the very same players repeating to everyone who asks......... "The sport is clean." And the statistics that will be quoted from the UCI/UCI will show the sport to be cleaned up........
The new generation of doctors are now signing leases for more and better labs that the UCI/ASO are going to conveniently ignore.......

"Welcome to a new era in cycling that has your best intentions in mind!"
 
wolfix said:
The sport has been yuppified since the mid 80's........ I had money invested in the local shop thru 1995 and saw the slow change about 1980.....
Like you said...... It used to be a bunch of misfits.
Yuppies want it clean????? Come to the local university gym and see who is juiced. The high end credit card boys....... Our future. They say one thing, but they do another. They do not walk the talk.
The reason you are seeing more century rides with major sponsors is because of the insurance it takes to conduct a cycling event on the road. [And that's a shame because centuries are a blast.]

These yuppies that say they want to see the sport change are the very same ones who paid $500 a plate to hear LA talk. They packed our sports arena a few weeks ago to get a glimpse of the man.
They are the ones who pay outragous sums of money to buy autographed jerseys of the cycling stars.



I won't disagree with you about the sport becoming unattractive.......
LA was a star. And still is. He is the man that defied death. That alone has put the sport in the spotlight. So we are going to see a automatic dropoff with his retirement. Floyd Landis does not have star power and was not really a fan favorite. And it's rather hard for the American fanbase get behind a LL or a Tommy D.


With the news that the ASO/UCI supposedly have made up.,the doping busts will slow way down........... A new sport will be announced....... And yet we will see the very same players repeating to everyone who asks......... "The sport is clean." And the statistics that will be quoted from the UCI/UCI will show the sport to be cleaned up........
The new generation of doctors are now signing leases for more and better labs that the UCI/ASO are going to conveniently ignore.......

"Welcome to a new era in cycling that has your best intentions in mind!"
awwwwww ****, I sound just like Flyer......
 
Bro Deal said:
I am not so sure about this. I cannot speak about European countries, but the U.S.--perhaps Germany is the same--has seen a significant change in the sport over the last ten years. In the U.S. cycling used to be much like climbing. It was a fringe sport. Now it has largely changed into a sport of yuppies who ride for fitness, and they do care about the doping.

I usually ride a few organized centuries a year. I have definitely seen a change in the type of riders. A large number are now sporting their companies' MS150 jersey. The riders used to be all sorts of odd ball characters and now they are almost all people with white collar jobs, often in their thirties and forties. The MS150 has used a rather brilliant strategy of encouraging medium and large companies to form teams of employees, and I think it has skewed the makeup of the average rider in the U.S.

I have lost track of the number of people I have bumped into on rides who have sworn off following pro cycling because of the doping. It has really picked up in the last two years. Wolf will say they don't matter, they were not long time, hardcore fans anyway; but I think it makes a difference. You cannot see a storying about doping in sport without cycling being mentioned. It has entered the popular imagination that pro cycling is as dirty as it comes.

All those yuppies are the ones buying expensive gear with their credit cards and HELOCs. They are the ones who sponsors are trying to connect with. If you lose them then the big money sponsors will leave. This might very well be why Disco could not land another sponsor.

With the cat being out of the bag, I don't see that you can now sweep the doping problem under the rug and go back to the way it was. There needs to be some sort of proactive solution that convinces people that things have changed.


BD : I agree with a lot of the sentiments that you've stated above.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that a lot of my friends/collegues would have been passive fans of the sport - following each and every race featured on the TV channels.

They'd watch the Classics - some of them even scheduled part of their annual holidays to coincide with the TV coverage of the second/third week of the TDF (mountain stages).
(one Marco Pantani nut used to get his wife to tape both the live and highlights features of the Tours - so that he could get to see MP climbing).

A lot of these people have stopped following the sport - basically because of the doping that was exposed.
They don't believe what they were seeing.
I'm talking here about people who follow football (soccer), rugby too and are "men of the world" so to speak.
They've become alienated from the sport - they say it's a fraud and are not prepared to waste their time watching.
They'd rather watch sports that, on the face of it, have a lot more credibility than cycling.

Personally, I have cut back on my own viewing of the sport - I cancelled my subscription to Cycle Sport and other mags.
I've spent literally thousands on cycling literature/video's : but I'm seriously considering giving/selling this stuff.
Why?
Because the sport, for me, has definitely lost some of it's lustre.....and because I was told of some of the rather cynical stuff that the UCI engaged in after Festina to try to keep the lid on doping.

Of course, I will continue to ride my bike - nothing that is happening in the professional peloton will ever dissuade me from getting the miles in each and every week.
But as regards following the sport - I've decided to arrange my free time to suit me, rather than the TV cycling schedules.
 
JohnO said:
Interesting to note that LNDD did not test the B sample. Two labs, one in Belgium and one in Australia did, and both got the same result - negative.

So, either two labs acting independently got the wrong result, or LNDD got the wrong result. Care to guess what the result would have been if LNDD had tested the B sample?
Current info I am hearing is that the B sample was tested in Belgium. It was inconclusive. The Belgian lab's data was sent to Australia and they agreed that it was inconclusive. The aussies never tested Mayo's urine, and the Belgian lab fubed the test.
 
Maybe Mayo could begin to return to other riders the money which he "earned" unfairly before to complain?
 
Bro Deal said:
Current info I am hearing is that the B sample was tested in Belgium. It was inconclusive. The Belgian lab's data was sent to Australia and they agreed that it was inconclusive. The aussies never tested Mayo's urine, and the Belgian lab fubed the test.

Or maybe LNDD flubbed the test?

Perish the thought!
 
JohnO said:
Or maybe LNDD flubbed the test?

Perish the thought!
Maybe they did stuff it up. Let's see what the re-test says. The point is that the B-sample test says nothing at all yet. It doesn't clear Mayo and it doesn't convict him.

I can't see an injustice yet.
 
Drongo said:
Maybe they did stuff it up. Let's see what the re-test says. The point is that the B-sample test says nothing at all yet. It doesn't clear Mayo and it doesn't convict him.

I can't see an injustice yet.
Of course there is. If the LNDD confirms the B sample then it must be them covering up their initial screwup. If they don't confirm a B sample then it shows how shoddy their work was on the A sample. If another lab screws the B sample testing up then that's LNDD's fault as well. It's really pretty simple. No matter what happens, we should blame LNDD for something or other--unless of course they find an athlete negative, in which case it shows that the rider would never ever dope and we should tell everyone how many dope tests the rider passed.
 
Bro Deal said:
Of course there is. If the LNDD confirms the B sample then it must be them covering up their initial screwup. If they don't confirm a B sample then it shows how shoddy their work was on the A sample. If another lab screws the B sample testing up then that's LNDD's fault as well. It's really pretty simple. No matter what happens, we should blame LNDD for something or other--unless of course they find an athlete negative, in which case it shows that the rider would never ever dope and we should tell everyone how many dope tests the rider passed.
You're quite right. What was I thinking?
 
JohnO said:
Or maybe LNDD flubbed the test?

Perish the thought!
JohnO, you are spot on. LNDD must be scheming. Mayo never need to blodd dope. Unlike a uniballed Armstrong, it was proven earlier this year that Iban has high natural testosterone. Everybody knows that testosterone raises red blood cells. That’s why Armstrong had to blood dope while Mayo never needed to.

Even doped Armstrong was dropped by clean Mayo a couple a’times. Here’s the proof your man is strong and clean.
 
lucybears said:
This is Chewbacca...

chewbacca.jpg
 
Oh, come on, now. If doping is to be brought under control, then all aspects of it must be cleaned up.

That includes the sloppy, politically influenced LNDD lab. Information leaks. Outdated software on their equipment. Failure to follow even the simplest procedures. Can't secure their computers. Mistakes that a first year chemistry student would be flunked for.

I don't for one minute think that Landis was framed, or that Armstrong was clean, but what was shown during the Landis trial was a very poorly run operation. With Mayo, their work was cross checked by a Belgian lab, and found to be lacking. I'm shocked and surprised. Maybe he was doing EPO, but if the labs can't even agree when they're supposed to be following the same protocols, it's just another sign of the general disorganization that's killing pro cycling.

Credibility is what cycling needs. And that includes the labs.

italiano said:
JohnO, you are spot on. LNDD must be scheming. Mayo never need to blodd dope. Unlike a uniballed Armstrong, it was proven earlier this year that Iban has high natural testosterone. Everybody knows that testosterone raises red blood cells. That’s why Armstrong had to blood dope while Mayo never needed to.

Even doped Armstrong was dropped by clean Mayo a couple a’times. Here’s the proof your man is strong and clean.
 
JohnO said:
Oh, come on, now. If doping is to be brought under control, then all aspects of it must be cleaned up.

That includes the sloppy, politically influenced LNDD lab. Information leaks. Outdated software on their equipment. Failure to follow even the simplest procedures. Can't secure their computers. Mistakes that a first year chemistry student would be flunked for.

I don't for one minute think that Landis was framed, or that Armstrong was clean, but what was shown during the Landis trial was a very poorly run operation. With Mayo, their work was cross checked by a Belgian lab, and found to be lacking. I'm shocked and surprised. Maybe he was doing EPO, but if the labs can't even agree when they're supposed to be following the same protocols, it's just another sign of the general disorganization that's killing pro cycling.

Credibility is what cycling needs. And that includes the labs.
I don't disagree with with the characterisation of the LNDD lab as sloppy at times: the Landis hearing showed that at least. LNDD does need to made ship-shape, if only to stop giving ammunition to the armies of conspiracy theorists who are convinced they're out to nab anyone who isn't French. Justice must be done and be seen to be done, of course.

But I'm not sure that the Belgian result found LNDD to be lacking. So far, they haven't found squat, whatever dross the Spanish are saying notwithstanding.

As for the leaks--true, l'Equipe has some good inside info. But the Lance tests leak, for example, didn't come from LNDD, as I understood (weren't the names put together elsewhere?) and the leak of a positive result won't change what's it's in the sample. It's a bad look if it happens, and should be stopped, but it doesn't mean the rider didn't dope.

In short, they need to clean up their act; but I say that as a result of other 'revelations', rather than the self-serving BS pushed by the Spanish authorities in defence of their man Mayo.
 
JohnO said:
Maybe he was doing EPO, but if the labs can't even agree when they're supposed to be following the same protocols, it's just another sign of the general disorganization that's killing pro cycling.

Credibility is what cycling needs. And that includes the labs.
It's just because there were too many doping cases in cycling that you could see it killing pro cycling...
Can you name a year without doping story since 1990?
We agree that we need a strong "police" to clean the field but when the cycling government had covered doping for a while with the satisfaction of fans who preferred put their head in sand.