The doping shame of Disco/USPO/Armstrong
- Thread starter Doctor.House
- Start date
Hmmm... was Ferrari riding for DC? He's a bit old for that.
Andreu started talking about his doping when his career, even as a second string assistant, was shot, and he had nothing else to lose. He should have let the wife go, she's a nutcase.
Funny thing about Armstrong - if he was chock full of EPO as you say, then his performance should have dropped in 2001 when EPO testing was in full swing. The exact opposite happened - he increased in performance. Witness Alpe d'Huez 2001, a classic duel. The tighter drug testing got, the better he got. So it could well be that his doping competition was getting squeezed more than he was. Not to worry, I'm sure you'll have a bag full of undocumented fantasies to explain that one.
In a way, LA did have an unfair advantage. He arranged the financing to insure that he could focus only on the Tour, and could train/peak exclusively for that. Most of the other stars had a full schedule to race, as per the sponsor's demands.
Andreu started talking about his doping when his career, even as a second string assistant, was shot, and he had nothing else to lose. He should have let the wife go, she's a nutcase.
Funny thing about Armstrong - if he was chock full of EPO as you say, then his performance should have dropped in 2001 when EPO testing was in full swing. The exact opposite happened - he increased in performance. Witness Alpe d'Huez 2001, a classic duel. The tighter drug testing got, the better he got. So it could well be that his doping competition was getting squeezed more than he was. Not to worry, I'm sure you'll have a bag full of undocumented fantasies to explain that one.
In a way, LA did have an unfair advantage. He arranged the financing to insure that he could focus only on the Tour, and could train/peak exclusively for that. Most of the other stars had a full schedule to race, as per the sponsor's demands.
Doctor.House said:
This is just chaff. These were not the reasons for LA's success. His declared lactate levels were at the lower end of the normal distribution curve. Low, yes. Abnormally so, no. And guess what-it didn't even matter. Lactate levels have never been any kind of a predictor of athletic performance, and especially so in endurance events.
The physiological basis of lactic acid has been completely reassesed in recent years. Instead of being a voodoo by-product that rots your muscles, the most recent literature shows it to be a really useful fuel and low levels can actually be disadvantageous.
Ditto, the high cadence. This was just something that Coyle hypothesised when he was casting around for explanations. He believed the lesser forces incurred in pedalling faster allowed LA to recover better. Even he acknowledges it's no more than a best guess. Against this, the standard literature tends to suggest that higher cadences are actually aerobically less efficient.
Lance's gang are always trying to propound a magic bullet to explain his undoubted post-cancer performance gains. Primarily, they have at various times advanced weight loss, cadence, lactate and his gigantic heart. None of these partial explanations withstand close scrutiny.
The physiological basis of lactic acid has been completely reassesed in recent years. Instead of being a voodoo by-product that rots your muscles, the most recent literature shows it to be a really useful fuel and low levels can actually be disadvantageous.
Ditto, the high cadence. This was just something that Coyle hypothesised when he was casting around for explanations. He believed the lesser forces incurred in pedalling faster allowed LA to recover better. Even he acknowledges it's no more than a best guess. Against this, the standard literature tends to suggest that higher cadences are actually aerobically less efficient.
Lance's gang are always trying to propound a magic bullet to explain his undoubted post-cancer performance gains. Primarily, they have at various times advanced weight loss, cadence, lactate and his gigantic heart. None of these partial explanations withstand close scrutiny.
jrtalon said:
JohnO said:
Surprised you're going down that particular road.
You're aware that Andreu has a very respectable palmares with regard to the TDF in particular.
He started 9 tours and finished 9 tours.
Worked hard for his teams.
Nothing second string about that.
well in 2000 we know he had discovered Actovegin as a replacement (Calve's Blood) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/em_swift/news/2000/12/14/swift_viewpoint/JohnO said:
who knows what he had discovered by 2001... auto or homologous blood transfustions (no test back then... still no test for auto)?, micro dose EPO? perfluro carbons? who knows?
there was a nice peice in velonews that showed that because of the way LA raced a season he was one of the lowest tested cyclist around (with only 12 documented WADA tests), even on his own team Hicapie was tested more times than him.. Landis was actually the most highly tested cyclist with 44 documented test.. how can you people continue to swallow LA's PR department's horse sh!t? how can people be SOOOO freak'n naive? have a read and you'll see just how gulable and ignorant of things you are...
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13035.0.html
there is no doubt that LA was an incredibly driven athelete and everyone else was doing it, but c'mon there is also no doubt that he used PEDs and we know for a fact that there are tonnes of methods and substances at his disposal to avoid testing positve (have you read a paper in the last few year.. c'mon man get a clue!) look at all the people who we know where using from investigations but did not test positive.. Millar, Basso, Ullrich, Pantani (never tested positive, they found an insulin syringe on him... was he using? no positive), Museeuw, Rumas avoided detection 'til he got sloppy.. this list is too long to finish here... as others have said none of the things LA puts out there as explaination pass even low level scientific scrutiny... i think the scientific term for it is horse sh!t... and people happlily open their mouths and swallow it no problem... don't understand it.
I think he's referring to his career after cycling: DS for D2 Toyota-United, from which he was fired, and color analyst for OLN.limerickman said:
The high cadence thing is just garbage spouted by Carmichael, many riders have won tours with a similar cadence. A VO2max of 83 is very high in anyones books and this was a talented amateur i'm talking about. The leap taken to the pro ranks was made impossible due to doping.jrtalon said:
but in the pro peleton a VO2max of low 80s is very, very common... that's the point this VO2max is not a differentiator... the guys with high VO2max are hinault 88, indurain 88, and the highest for a cyclist LeMond 92.5...NJK said:
a low 80s VO2max is high for the rest of us but not for pro peleton it's just middle of the road and that's who you should be comparing him to... european pros.
but the pros that have traditionally been the greats have been shown to have VO2max aproaching or even over 90ml/kg/min... in LA we're not talking about someone who was just able to mearly compete on the highest level we are talking about someone who was more domininat in the most difficult race in the world and for longer than any of the greats... someone who you would suspect would have among the highest VO2max ever recorded if not the highest, but he doesn't... his VO2max is common place in the pro peleton...?? his VO2max is just not indicative of his level of performance.NJK said:
Nice doping apology little Janie. But not accepted here.
Go find a sharps bucket to barf into. And save your lectures for your priest.
Go find a sharps bucket to barf into. And save your lectures for your priest.
janiejones said:Maybe you can settle down too - go and buy that bike (you will probably need to learn to ride it seeing that I'm sure it will be your first, but it doesn't take long, get your mum to run along behind you holding the saddle until you get your balance, or you might want to start with training wheels).
Stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and get out there in the nice sunshine - I think you need it
Were these figures with or without:NJK said:
EPO?
cow blood?
RSR-13?
HBOCs?
all of the above in a cocktail?
Blood boosting will INCREASE V02 max.
If current research out of UC/Berkely is to be believed LA's low level's of lactic acid(6.5/7.5mM compared to teammates 9-14mM) means that he was using lactic acid as fuel in the cell mitochondria to produce more available usable energy than his peers. Unforunately for the losers, no known drug will work as a catalyst to facilitate this intracellular lactate shuttle. It appears that only a lot of training along with a genetic pre-disposition to maximize mitochondria growth will enable this process. Maybe the monk like approach to training that LA espoused 24/7 365 paid off more than the "rock star" euro approach(does anyone really know how many calls LA placed to his partying euro peleton friends from his bike on XMAS eve?). In any event, I personally would take the extra energy producing potential of bridging the glycotic/oxidative barrier over a slightly higher VO2max since he who converts the most amount of energy into muscular power and velocity dominants the podium most of the time. LA's accomplishment's are in the past and in the cycling record books for eternity anyways. Long live the pro peleton in whatever form it can continue to exist.doctorSpoc said:
They aren't.
Armstrong will undoubtedly be disqualified from 1999 to 2005 as his legacy is disclosed by more teammate confessions and more leaks of his doping dossiers.
He will become wholly irrelevant to cycling as an industry or icon. Life science and gene doping will become his new game.
Lance was a disaster for cycling.
Armstrong will undoubtedly be disqualified from 1999 to 2005 as his legacy is disclosed by more teammate confessions and more leaks of his doping dossiers.
He will become wholly irrelevant to cycling as an industry or icon. Life science and gene doping will become his new game.
Lance was a disaster for cycling.
Bike N Ski said:
Yes they were apologizing for doping, event fixes, anti-competition and fraud.jrtalon said:whats this apology you keep going on about, I've seen you post that several times and in those posts people aren't apologizing
I never accept false apologies that masl Nike drug cheats, nor should you.
Unless of course you profit from such crimes.
Similar threads
